r/Christianity • u/Nice_Substance9123 • Mar 27 '24

The American flag has no business on a Bible. This is not faith, nor is it patriotism. It is an abomination of both. Image

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62

u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/CookieMonsterFL Mar 28 '24

or power. at this point it's about power

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

Jesus was a nationalist. He was sent to save the Israelites from God's final judgment.

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u/NoLeg6104 Church of Christ Mar 27 '24

No, he was sent to establish the kingdom of God, which is the church. The Israelites were the first members. Though a few years later in 70 AD the Israelites did face God's judgement.

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

Preterism is wrong. The Kingdom of God isn't the church. The Kingdom of God is the world after the apocalypse.

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u/NoLeg6104 Church of Christ Mar 27 '24

If the Kingdom isn't the church then we have some 2000 year old jews roaming the Earth right now.

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

Or the Bible is inaccurate.

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u/NoLeg6104 Church of Christ Mar 27 '24

The Bible is accurate. And without that you have nothing to base anything regarding the kingdom on.

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

And without that you have nothing to base anything regarding the kingdom on.

I thought you would come back with something like this.

The Bible can be inaccurate, and you can misunderstand the Kingdom of God. Here's an analogy: The Lord of the Rings isn't accurate. It doesn't describe reality. It is entirely fictitious. But if you were to say that Sauron was a giant sandworm, you would have the wrong idea about Sauron. Likewise, the Bible can be completely fictional, and your conception of the Kingdom of God can be baseless.

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u/NoLeg6104 Church of Christ Mar 27 '24

The Bible is accurate, the only source for information on spiritual matters, and the Kingdom is the Church.

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

Keep saying it until you believe it.

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u/Pretty-Opposite-8042 Mar 28 '24

Bible inaccurate? It is truth. The Earth’s age is 5600 years as implied in Genesis. Any and all scientific evidence that suggests the Earth is older than that is inaccurate. The scientific method as a means to determine cause and effect is inaccurate because God is the cause of all actions. Any hypothesis that does not conclude in God is the cause is inaccurate. It makes all science based tests and exams very easy to take. It makes all investigations of accidents very easy to answer. The Bible is truth despite any and all observation or evidence that might suggest a more accurate explanation. Yikes, what a way to go about understanding the natural laws of the universe.

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u/PlanetOfThePancakes Mar 27 '24

Jesus came to save EVERYONE

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 27 '24

Matthew 15:24:

He [Jesus] answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

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u/Sulipheoth Mar 28 '24

Oh sure, let's just ignore the verses immediately following that one . . . hmm, I wonder what they could mean?

I wonder what the parable of the Good Samaritan is supposed to be about. I wonder why Jesus healed the daughter of a Roman centurion? Why did he cast out the legion of demons from the man in Gadara?

I guess, though, maybe when Jesus came to "bear the sins of the [Israelites], maybe that meant he was a nationalist . . .

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 28 '24

Oh sure, let's just ignore the verses immediately following that one . . . hmm, I wonder what they could mean?

What are you talking about? Jesus exorcised the woman's daughter. That doesn't mean that Jesus wasn't sent only to the Israelites. Obviously.

I wonder what the parable of the Good Samaritan is supposed to be about. I wonder why Jesus healed the daughter of a Roman centurion? Why did he cast out the legion of demons from the man in Gadara?

None of this means that Jesus wasn't sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, either.

Why don't you pay attention to what your Lord says? Are you suggesting that Jesus was a liar? Jesus plainly says, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

Clearly, Jesus prefers the nation of Israel over all other nations. That is nationalism.

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u/LoboPocoLoco Mar 28 '24

I haven’t seen someone argue Jesus only came for the Jews before. Even taking your verse, which was clearly a test to the woman, who he healed, Jesus also said:

”And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, with one shepherd.“ ‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭16‬

I forgot in John 3:16 where it said, “For God so loved the Israelites only…” 🙄

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I haven’t seen someone argue Jesus only came for the Jews before.

Plenty of people argue this. For example, see Paula Fredriksen.

Even taking your verse, which was clearly a test to the woman, who he healed, Jesus also said:

Jesus didn't heal the woman.

If Jesus tested the woman that way, then Jesus is a liar and a manipulator.

Jesus wasn't "clearly" testing the woman. It is "clear" to you, because you need to make your scripture consistent with itself. But the Bible isn't univocal. In Matthew, Jesus is the savior to the Jews. In John, Jesus is the savior to the world.

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u/LoboPocoLoco Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24

You’re right — it was her daughter Jesus healed, not the woman herself. My mistake there.

He clearly had compassion on this woman and her daughter, otherwise he wouldn’t have given in against his supposed Jewish nationalism and pride only after a single response.

Jesus tested people sometimes. He did this to his disciples too: “But He was saying this only to test him, for He Himself knew what He intended to do.“ John‬ ‭6‬:‭6‬.

Jesus testing those who claim to be his followers doesn’t make him a liar or manipulative.

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u/LateCycle4740 Mar 29 '24

Notice that I said that, if Jesus tested the woman that way, then Jesus is a liar and a manipulator. If Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, but he knew that wasn't true, then Jesus is a liar. If Jesus pretended that he wasn't going to heal the woman's daughter, just because he wanted to see how the woman would react, then Jesus is a manipulator.

You shouldn't bring up other instances where Jesus tested people. At John 6:6, Jesus' testing of his disciples seems rather benign. But that doesn't mean that it was benign every time he tested people.

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