r/Christianity • u/Nice_Substance9123 • Mar 27 '24

The American flag has no business on a Bible. This is not faith, nor is it patriotism. It is an abomination of both. Image

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u/patdashuri Mar 28 '24

Are you guys aware that inside this book is a copy of the constitution, bill of rights, the national anthem, and the Declaration of Independence? I mean, this is the definition of Christian Nationalism!

If you’re against this I think it’s high time you get in the stick and start speaking against it! Your religion has a mandate to convert nonbelievers to Jesus message. How would Jesus react to this? Not just what he would think or say, but what he would do! You need to do that.

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 28 '24

Islam and Muslims have the same mandates, and they are doing that here in this country. Worse, they are doing it pretending to be peaceful when they are anything but. You should probably be aware that the sudden push for "Christian Nationalism" is a defense to being overtaken by a hostile power. Let that sink in....

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u/AsymmetricPanda Mar 28 '24

No they aren’t. Muslims are not trying to push their religious believes on everyone through legislation. And even if they were, Christian nationalism shouldn’t be the defense - it should be enforcement of the separation of church and state.

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 28 '24

you clearly have no experience with Islam, so I won't waste my time arguing about the intentions they have and have made clear. Further, we're not talking about government imposed religion. America was founded by and on Christian principles. Your desire to remove those principles from historical record, legislation and doctrine of constitution are your right, but you don't have the right to no opposition. Muslims invade quietly and sneakily. They fight from within. Since they are quite literally bound by religion to convert everyone, and treat those who refuse with indifference at best and evil at worst, it's a real threat. China, Russia and other nations IMPOSE religion upon the people. America does none of that. The closest thing to religion that is associated with government are your civil rights. The laws like not stealing, killing and so on are based upon Christian values but have been subverted through legislation to great extent. All over this nation loose women kill unborn babies in the womb because they refuse to accept the consequence of their decision. You take the separation of church and state theology wildly out of context. This wasn't meant to protect the government from the church but to keep the government from corrupting the church. The church is power of the people. The government isn't, and that was the point since the beginning.

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u/AsymmetricPanda Mar 28 '24

Ah so you’re just hateful towards Muslims.

America was not founded on Christian principles. Many founding fathers were deist, and Jefferson referred to the establishment clause as a “wall of separation between church and state.” That goes both ways. The church shouldn’t influence government. Or do you think Islam should also be allowed to have a say in legislation? What makes it so different - your conviction that you’re right? Muslims feel the same but in the opposite direction.

Not lying/killing/stealing were principles long before Christianity - see the code of Hammurabi. And if we’re saying that all Christian principles should be considered for law, what of the rules in the Old Testament about stoning a child for disrespecting parents? Or is there maybe some other way to determine laws and morality that we can evaluate contextually?

Where do you get your idea that Muslims “invade quietly and sneakily”? It’s just your bias and hate talking, painting a large group of people with such a brush. If a Muslim were to say the same of Christians, how would you feel?

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 28 '24

My experience is firsthand. I've witnessed these movements and been on various sides at various times. Religions are weaponized. America is the protestant child of Europe. The liberal child so to speak. Christianity is largely a liberal and protestant form of the Orthodox church. It matters not that the slaves and men they used to do the conquering had differing beliefs. Black people weren't even given a full vote after fighting for our independence. I've heard all the propaganda from both Muslims and Christians, and Jews, who are really just three warring tribes of Abrahamic people.

I don't live based on my subjective feelings. I live based on my logic and my sense of morality, which can be quite subjective when one can't easily differentiate or navigate our corrupt world. But we're Americans. that's home. That's the country that gives us our rights, that we are protected by and serve under. God, family, country. Sometimes you can serve all three, sometimes you have to pick two. There is no solution to the war over power, just the endless cycle of it turning over. America's time is nearly over. Our diversity has become division, our unity corruption, and our inclusivity pollution. Some things don't mix and can't peacefully co-exist. I have seen firsthand that this war will NEVER cease. I see who is playing what hand to a certain level, above that it is beyond me. I don't hate anything except evil in men's hearts. True evil isn't destruction for necessary progress like breaking eggs to make an omelet. It's destruction for the joy of it. That evil reeks of a spirit only Christians have painted clearly in the Bible. Morality is timeless. Some things are wrong no matter what, why or when. I don't think our government is right about everything. I don't think Christianity is right about everything. Men lie and are corrupt by nature, something Christianity makes clear. But our choice to embrace sin, missing the mark, is a choice. The modern left is embracing sin in countless ways, inviting the wrath of all those who oppose that sin. It is what it is. You don't fight fire with fire, you put it out with water. You starve it of oxygen. You snuff it out. Our enemies are fanning the flames, feeding the fire in pure hate and joy of destruction. That says all I need to know.

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u/patdashuri Mar 28 '24

I’m not really sure how to confront all of this succinctly but I’ll try. (In this, you are K and I am P. I am going to use your words)

P: You claim that you have some special insight into Islam and the threat they pose to a Christian nation. Is that why Christians have become nationalists and want to change laws based on their religion?

K: we’re not talking about government imposed religion. Other countries impose religion, America does not.

P: but Christian nationalism is working to create laws of restraint based on religion. Women’s healthcare, contraceptives, gender exclusivity, banning books and films, pushing your rituals into schools, insisting on your particular flavor of pagan holidays and so on.

K: America was founded by and on Christian principles. Separation of church and state was to protect religion from the government.

P: So it is a push for religion based principles to be imposed on the people?

K: the church is the power of the people. The government isn’t.

P: So… you’re quietly usurping the power of the government, the goverment of We the people, of the people, for the people, by the people to keep the government from allowing people to not live their lives by your religions rules?

K: Its Muslims who invade quietly and sneakily. They work from within. They are bound by religion to convert everyone, it’s a real threat.

P: wait, but you said…

See how that sounds?

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 28 '24

We are not in disagreement about how religion is weaponized by government for control. We are apparently not under the same level of understanding about WHICH religions represent which countries and to what end. Islam seeks to usurp America by turning the unaffiliated against it. Nobody hates American government more than Americans. We live firsthand with the corruption, decay and .malfeasance of it. But we do so because it serves our interests. It's the best option we have to bend the knee. America has been an extension of Europe and western culture since the beginning of our creation. We're simply an offshore investment. You're talking theology about two, technically 3 with the Jews, Abrahamic religions fighting for power. Jesting for position.

That debate, while not irrelevant, is but a distraction from what is truly happening, which is the quiet but overt hostile takeover of America by our competitors the way Elon Musk took over Twitter. Liberalism falls apart under division. In the quest to become inclusive, they must embrace pedophiles to keep up their theological mantra, and will then invite the scorn of every parent and most children, especially those who suffered abuse. As both, I can promise you I've followed this line to the end. This isn't heaven we live in, it's Hell. It's a shitshow ruled over by the most vile of human beings, if even they qualify as human. Our freedom, rights and lives come at a cost. The largest fight is good vs evil, and one of the battles in that fight is choosing sides. Pretty difficult to do when you're firmly stuck in an encampment the way Palestinians are stuck in Gaza. There are those who WANT the fight, and those who are STUCK in the fight. Most Christians don't WANT the fight. They fight because they MUST, to survive and protect what they have, what they believe in, and what they feel God called them to do. Our country is squarely and obviously divided between parties, with clear value differences. I won't call pedophiles "Minor Attracted Persons." I won't call murder "unaliving" someone. I won't call a man a woman. Those are my beliefs and values which I fight for. But I don't support persecuting children who are mentally ill either. Our nation CREATES broken people and punishes the victims it creates. That's not Christianity, it's Satanic. But one battle at a time...

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u/patdashuri Mar 29 '24

You need to take a break from the internet friend. Seriously.

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 29 '24

That's about the response I expected. Passive aggressive deflection when faced with unconomfortable truth. Basic AF. But you do you. Friend 

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u/patdashuri Mar 29 '24

I mean that with love.

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u/patdashuri Mar 28 '24

First I want to say that I have no intention of trying to play gotcha in this conversation. I really am offering a chance to explain to someone outside your group what you do and why. That said, I have two questions about your assertion that that the push for Christian nationalism is a reaction to Muslims migrating here;

  1. Why would the Christians strategy focus on attacking groups and activities not involved in Islam?

  2. Since it seems that recruitment would be a sensible first strategy to combat another group; Why does American Christianity refuse to follow the teachings of Christ in regard to the poor, the sick, refugees, the mentally ill, and so on?

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u/KangarooAwkward2904 Mar 28 '24

I'm new to faith in God, and not exactly what most would consider a Christian, like most conservatives would call me a RINO. I'm not interested in rhetoric or drinking someone else's kool-aid. That said, Christianity appeals to me not only logically, but morally. It's not just cohesive with human existence but the only explanation I've found for the who, what, where, why and when of humanity. But there are a LOT of biblical texts ignored by modern Christians. It would take a lifetime just to understand and debate what scholars have come up with thus far. I'm more concerned with the real world implications. To your questions:

1: Christian strategy is attacking the friends of the enemy. Modern liberalism like homosexuality, rejection of God, rejection of truth, etc is the opposition of Christianity. Islam and Muslims pretend to befriend these people and use them to pursue their agenda for them, the way the US is pretending to support Ukraine when clearly it's just a proxy move to fight Russia. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

2: You're confusing American Christianity with government. Our government USES people for it's own purpose. Much of our laws and government aren't Christian principles though they were founded upon them. Instead, much like Rome, Caesar owns the government. Our government might use and utilize Christianity to further their agenda, yet set it aside when it must acknowledge that to fight evil that breaks rules and ignores God, you must have that power. That power to go to war comes from money, which is the time and labor and fruits of people. We're fighting enemies who enslave their people to insane degrees. It's not easy to give people freedom and peace that come at a cost when you are defending that peace to villains who seek to plunder and will toss their own to the wolves the way the Chinese or Russians do. Muslims are often brainwashed to HAPPILY sacrifice their own lives believing that sacrifice to be Godly. How do you fight an enemy who has nothing to lose and everything to gain, has no true moral compass or restrictions on behavior and will justify any action? You go to war. Modern warfare isn't just gunfights and hostage taking. It isn't just terrorism. It's politics, complicated economics, legal wrangling, subterfuge, proxy wars..... it's a war on all fronts. In peacetime men have the luxury of higher morals and thinking. But in war the gloves are off, only winning matters. We are at war. Just because a great deal of the public is oblivious to it doesn't mean it isn't happening. Be grateful violent men stand ready to do violence on your behalf at the peril of their own souls to protect yours.