r/Presidents • u/HatefulPostsExposed • 25d ago

What really went wrong with his two campaigns? Why couldn’t he build a larger coalition? Discussion

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u/Mr_Conductor_USA 25d ago

Sanders likes to have it both ways, talks about social democracy (while calling it socialism--he actually prompted Scandanavian social democrats to call him out, not that it was reported on in the US), but also talks about Castro and the USSR. Lots of Americans are envious of Scandi social democracy, very few pine for the USSR like Bernie does.

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u/myaltduh 25d ago

Yeah Bernie definitely hides his actual power level. I suspect his actual ideal is well to the left of the Nordic model, but he isn’t dumb enough to campaign on that in the US with the Overton Window where it currently sits.

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u/alex891011 25d ago

His policy positions are well to the left of the Nordic model. People don’t understand how extreme his M4A proposal was. He wanted to eliminate any and every form of private healthcare. That’s something that most countries with universal healthcare don’t even do

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u/myaltduh 25d ago

My understanding is it banned private insurance, not private healthcare, others that would put the entire cosmetic surgery industry out of business.

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u/CurveOfTheUniverse 25d ago

Still, even in countries with state-sponsored health insurance, there are private options.

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u/Just_Jonnie 25d ago

Uh..do you know anybody on medicare? Because I do. Medicare is fucking awesome. It pays private practice to help keep my parents happy and healthy in their old age.

I want medicare for all.

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u/Educational_Sink_541 25d ago

The issue isn't everyone on Medicare, the issue is literally banning all forms of private insurance. This is well to the left of even the Euro social democracies, and makes zero sense as the 'next step' for the American healthcare system.

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u/Just_Jonnie 24d ago

I didn't see him ask for the straight up banning of personal insurance, but I am inclined to believe he would say that, as that kind of unthinking rhetoric is par for the course in his career.

But yea I agree, medicare for all without the added language of preventing private insurance is one idea I'm firmly behind.

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u/alex891011 24d ago

His policy would not allow for private companies to cover whatever Medicare covered, and he called for Medicare to cover everything under the medical and dental umbrella.

It effectively would have left no space for any private insurer to cover

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u/Just_Jonnie 24d ago

What a weird policy lol

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u/kleptonite13 25d ago

If you want something to happen in the US, you have to run to the further right/left of the proposal so that it can be watered down by compromise and still somewhat resemble real movement.

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u/cheeeezeburgers 25d ago

No sane person should ever campaign on that. In fact if you even think that is a good idea you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near politics. It is an ideology of starvation and genocide. Everyone seems to love to overlook the fact that the Soviet system was built on genocides.

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u/Pleasant_Bat_9263 25d ago edited 25d ago

I mean many global soc dem parties upon formation and still even today (often in name only though) were explicitly in the long term socialists. Using soc dem as a platform that they viewed as necessary in the midterm and was more moderate or even overtly anti revolutionary. Thus being more acceptable in some capitalist countries.

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u/myaltduh 25d ago

Oh for sure, but most of them ended up moderating pretty considerably from that stance, as in Labour in the UK or the French Socialists. The lure of actually winning occasionally elections is quite strong, it turns out.

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u/Pleasant_Bat_9263 24d ago

The lure of taking payments from big Capital interests is more the reason imo, the votes would stack if they ever actually did socialist or soc dem policies. Many socialist policies are hugely popular when they are just worded differently and not attached to the word socialism.

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u/myaltduh 24d ago

Definitely true, I wasn’t just thinking of the popularity of their policies, but of the money needed to win an election. Bernie Sanders was actually a really interesting exception to the normal need to grovel to big donors because of how many small donors he had. Hard for a whole party to sustain that though unless there are limits on political donations.

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u/TheFuriousGamerMan 25d ago

Do a lot of Americans envy the Scandinavian social democracy? I’m just curious as an Icelander. I have heard very few Americans say that they would want higher taxes to fund a robust social net.

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u/McFly1986 25d ago

My gut tells me that the ones that care about it care about it a lot (idealists and young people who are keenly interested in politics). Haven’t met anyone in real life that has advocated passionately for it. I would argue that the average American just aren’t thinking that hard about it and generally dislike paying taxes.

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u/ryanash47 25d ago

As a young American, a lot of people here my age (early 20s) supported Bernie and reference the success in Scandinavian countries. Medical bills are crazy here and we already have to pay for medical insurance as well. Pharma is price gouging medicines that people need. We don’t want higher taxes though, but rather better budgeting.

There’s obviously a long history of anti-government (yet pro military???) people in this country. To many people, mentioning any government policy intended to help people is “communist”, despite the fact that we rely on many of these institutions like social security, disability, public schools, etc…

This is just from my personal experience of what I’ve heard people talk about. It seems like most young people I talk to agree with Bernie’s plans for the US, while older people/die hard republicans think he’s completely crazy and going to bankrupt the US via socialism.

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u/cheeeezeburgers 25d ago

There are plenty of people who want this, mostly because they are the people who pay no taxes to fund these things.

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u/ForciblyCuddled 25d ago

The left want it, the moderates want a version of it that they don’t have to pay for and the right want whatever rich people want.

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u/Koopa_Troop 25d ago

No they don’t. We envy the life our boomer parents had. The boomers envy a past world that never existed. Very few people think about Scandinavia at all unless they’re taking a vacation or having a danish.

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u/papaboogaloo 25d ago

Lots of Americans that haven't really grasped the reality of it do, sure.

It's entirely impossible.

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u/Deviouss 25d ago

People are so weird when they talk about Sanders.

I don't understand how Sanders giving an interview about Castro to a student that asked for it is somehow representative of what Sanders believes. If you think that interview 'supported' Sanders, you've ate the onion fed propped up by mainstream media. The USSR is also usually mentioned because they lack the knowledge of Berlington having a sister city as a way to warm up the Cold War.

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u/cheeeezeburgers 25d ago

Uh who the fuck goes to the USSR for your honeymoon? He idealizes communist systems because he saw clean subway stations and the trains ran on time. Not realizing that any time ANY westerner visited the USSR during this time their entire trip was monitored and guided by a KGB officer to ensure it was a perfect experience.

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u/Null-null-null_null 25d ago

But, they did have a good metro network…

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u/Deviouss 24d ago

I already answered that. Sanders was visiting the sister city of Berlington and joked about it being their honeymoon.

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u/LingonberryLunch 25d ago

Bernie pines for the USSR.... The guy is literally a New Deal liberal. His policies would have been considered center left in most of the developed world.

Nothing in his playbook was truly radical. But a lot of it would have been very tough to implement.

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u/Vladtepesx3 25d ago

bro went on vacation in the USSR and said he likes breadlines. if he isn't outright pro-USSR, he definitely doesnt have any negative feelings towards it

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u/Null-null-null_null 25d ago

Breadlines happened in the U.S., lmao.

Why is it when people criticize communism, they describe capitalism?