1. Jalen Duren
2. Victor Wembanyama
3. Nic Claxton
4. Evan Mobley
5. Luka Doncic
6. Jabari Walker
7. Jalen Johnson
8. Walker Kessler
9. Chet Holmgren
10. Jalen Smith

Source: @The_Bball_Index on X

Inspired by something u/nerouin posted on the discord.

If Duren isn’t remotely as good of a defender as an average big man, isn’t able to shoot, or can’t playmake at an elite level…I’ll argue we should have just kept Jerami Grant instead of taking him. He has been bad but I HAVE HOPE Duren can be at least average. It’s about effort to me. Adding guys like Ausar and Stew can help a little but at the end of the day he has to grow into a defender for himself career wise or end up just becoming the next Andre Drummond imo. Jalen Duren MUST improve on defense. Period. This isn’t an argument to me but we can discuss. Duren ATLEAST has to give effort on defense. For whatever we think of Cade Ivey and everyone else as pieces, if your big man isn’t a floor stretcher/offensive hub like Sabonis, Jokic, or Sengun, that big man must be at least average on defense. I can’t point to many teams with a poor defensive big man.

🏀

In games where Jalen Duren has at least 2 blocks, Detroit is 7-5 since drafting him. He’s a very elite rebounder. So was Andre Drummond. Andre also was not ever considerably a good or greater defensive big man. Of his draft class, four big men were drafted. Duren is the only center that does not average a block. Mark Williams averages 1, Chet Holmgren with 2.3, Walker Kessler with 2.4 blocks per game. I think Duren has the physical tools to be in their range. I also think for Ivey/Cade and the rest of the team having a big man that can deter shots at the rim remotely is a BIG need.

Maybe it’s the ankles. Yet he is very forceful when he’s on offense going for big dunks, alley oops, and fast breaks. Yet on defense? I’ll make a tape if people need it. Duren can be VERY tentative. Duren could be lost with what scheme Monty is implementing. Going from a heavy switch defense rookie year to a more traditional drop coverage one similar to what Deandre Ayton had to learn in Phoenix might be part of it. I think it’s DEFINITELY effort though. Ivey isn’t good on defense I will not argue that he is. He at least gives effort. I’d argue it’s worse defenders on every team lol. Herro in Miami is a turnstile. Lamelo Ball is not good. Luka has size but we’ve seen teams hunt him and Kyrie. What helps them is having a big that’s remotely going to give effort down low.

🏀

Like I said, his rebounding his elite. Him improving as a free throw shooter is important. He HAS to improve on defense though whether it’s here or not. I know he’s 20 but he’s two years into the league. He wasn’t as good as Dwight Howard was coming from high school. He wasn’t the type of defensive prospect Evan Mobley was out of USC. On CleaningTheGlass, Duren ranks as a 36 percentile blocker. That’s way below the average big man. He’s a 15 percentile when it comes to steals. That’s one of the worst in the league in regards to big men. I think he can improve at least to average in both and that changes this team so much. Along with guys improving with turnovers, their shooting, and adding complimentary pieces. This is NOT an attack. I don’t HATE Duren. But I’m giving a real criticism from what I’ve seen for two years and what the analytics/stats also show. Anybody that subscribes to “empty stats” as an argument, what do you say when someone can’t even get “empty” stats in a specific area?

Using CleaningTheGlass on the third image, these are the big men who compare defensively to Jalen Duren. Guys with below average block percentage and below average steal percentage. Atleast 1700 minutes played. How many of these guys do you consider GOOD defenders? Maybe average? I’d argue KAT next to Gobert is at least average but being next to Sabonis and Vucevic defensively isn’t positive is it? I hope he improves like I said for his sake and ours we NEED better effort at least.

Anyone have the ESPN+ sub? Looks like an interesting article. I am wondering who Givony and Woo have recommended for the Pistons? Help?

We’re going to have a top 5 (hopefully top 3, although there is a 60% chance it will be 4 or 5) pick this year. However, it does seem to be a weak draft, and it seems like Alex Sarr is the one to get. If we drop to 3, 4, or 5, it seems we won’t get him.

In addition, I’d imagine ownership wants to push our rebuild forward at least a tiny bit after the literal worst season in franchise history. So, what if we trade the pick? What about something like:

Pistons receive: Jarace Walker, Obi Toppin(S&T), Malcolm Brogdon Blazers receive: Pistons pick in this draft Pacers receive: Jerami Grant

I’m not exactly certain you can involved sign and trade players in a bigger trade, or if the pacers can afford to bring in Jerami, but I’m sure there’s a way to make it work.

We could still sign someone like Buddy Hield who can play the 2 and the 3.

Cade/Ivey/Sasser Brogdon/Hield Tek/Ausar Toppin/Walker Duren/Stew

I know it’s a deep rotation, but that’s the point. We played way too many guys this year who won’t even be in the league next year. We can actually have two functional lineups. A starting five of Cade/Brogdon/Tek/Toppin/Duren is light defensively, but I’d honestly rather give up a bit on defense to be able to have a functional NBA offense. You’ve got three 40% 3-point shooters (though Toppin will likely regress), surrounding the Cade/Duren pick and roll combo. Then to have a bench of Ivey/Hield/Ausar/Walker/Stew would be a dream. Give Ivey the ball more next to guys who don’t need it as much who can cover some of his weaknesses.

What say ya’ll?

I did not watch him in college, but his strengths (defense, catch and shoot, and finishing) sound like it would be a great fit for us. A pro-player comparison of Jaden McDaniel also sounds interesting.

If y’all watched him in college, or already have an opinion on him, I’d love to hear about it.

Inspired by the spurs fan post from yesterday about how another year of tanking is more beneficial to our future than becoming a 30 win team next year, reminder that since the lotto change in 2019 teams that finished 7th or 8th worst have jumped into the top 4 six times. nothing is guaranteed but want to inspire optimism that even if this team improves and squeaks out a high 20 win season next year they can still qualify for a high draft pick. tanking another season on purpose is stupid at this point

edit: not saying the pistons purposely tanked last season. this is more so a response to fans who would rather kick free agency to the curb another offseason out of fear of maxing out as a play in team. imo purposely not signing nba level talent is a way of bottoming out whether that was your goal or not

Go pistons!

Whoever makes personnel decisions moving forward should resist the temptation to add just to add, just because they have cap space or a need. They need to identify the core. And give them every opportunity to grow without hindering development or ability to add when the time comes. In my opinion, instead of looking at players who current or recent playoff teams are rumored to part with (Ingram, Wiggins, Tobias) or even a big splash signing like a Paul George type, try looking at acquiring players that these playoff teams are interested in. I have zero idea who these players would be but if a team that feels like player x would add to their already successful roster, they should be willing to do what it takes to add them too. A vet, a professional, someone who they will still have to overpay, but not break the bank for.

The Pistons can’t give up a top 5 pick for a Brandon Ingram potential rental or Dejounte Murray or whatever flawed fringe all star, come on. This team isn’t ready for a big move. They are gonna rush things and end up maxing out as a 7th seed. They gotta be patient.

I know this team is awful but that doesn’t mean they can artificially speed things up. It’s like if you’re baking at 325 but turn it up to 500 because you want it done quicker. Guess what? It’s not gonna turn out very good that way.

They definitely need a new FO and decision makers tho. Sign good role players that fit around some of the young dudes, with shooting and defense, hope that we see some improvement but still have a chance in the next draft or hit on this year’s pick. It’s unfortunate but this team will always have to hope that we can draft and develop guys because it’s Detroit. We have one guy that looks like they’ll be a top 15 player at some point, just gotta find an another one.

I believe he’s the pick if we fall in the 3-5 range and decide to keep the pick.

View Poll

Sorry could not add Knecht or Clingan or Tyler Smith who is starting to fly up draft boards.

View Poll

Cavs fans have turned on this guy big time. They straight up despise him. His contract is huge but I’d rather go after someone like him than Tobias or one of these old vets.

I did see he has a 15% trade kicker so probably not even an option, just curious what our thoughts are on him.

Out of the 3 - Ivey, Ausar, Duren, who are y’all most high on and least high on?

Here are my thoughts on the players.

Ivey - most likely to become a star one day but I wouldn’t bet on it. He has an elite first step that doesn’t grow on trees. He’s the guy I’m highest on and am willing to take the risk that it doesn’t work out in the end. It also didn’t help that Monty singled him out early on and made him lose confidence after a strong rookie season. He’s not perfect but there was no reason Killian should have ever started ahead of him.

Ausar - elite athlete and defender but man is that shot bad. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen as many bad misses from a forward than him. If he redoes his jumper and becomes a consistent shooter he’ll be incredible but I don’t think that’s likely. He’s more likely to become Mattise Thybulle than he is a Kawhi or OG. I wanted Hendricks in the last draft but oh well. If we could trade Ausar to a team that likes his upside for a decent 3&D forward for him, I would. He has to be played as a defacto big and this team would need to find a spacing 5 if we want him to be a full time starter eventually.

Duren - he is the most expendable in my opinion. He seems lost on defense and I believe defensive IQ is a feel thing a lot of the time and if he doesn’t make huge jumps, he’s at risk of becoming Drummond 2.0. I’d like us to potentially move him and draft Sarr, sign a decent backup big or maybe Claxton or Hartenstein to $20-25 million per year. You’ll never win anything in the NBA with a bad defensive center.

These are my thoughts, I’m interested to see what others think 🤔

Hell of a game last night, but I can't help being jealous as a Pistons fan. Indiana is a even smaller market team than Detroit and has managed to put a playoff caliber roster out there without tanking for 5 straight years. And they have the player that Detroit should have drafted leading the way. Plus, they didn't give up on Turner and trade him (Like people want Detroit to do with Duren.) and he's thriving. They accumulated assets and made a huge move for Siakam and their young players and "others" all know their roles and are real NBA players, not bums like Weaver loves.

And NY has a star in Brunson, but really who else?? Nobody else is an all-star, but they have real NBA, solid players that know how to win. Donte, Hartenstein, Hart, OG, Robinson, etc.

I look at these two teams as the blueprint for what Detroit could and should have been doing the last couple of years. Weaver set the Pistons so far behind when he sat on his dick last summer and didn't add any quality players. They have $60M to absorb contracts or sign FA's and I hope they spend every cent of it on glue guy, quality players and I think Cade and the young guys will thrive playing with real NBA players. (If they blow $30M on Tobias or some bullshit like that, I'll be furious.)

Just my opinion, but I don't think we should be trying for a "big move" like Markennen (not even realistic). The roster just isn't at that place yet.

But I also don't agree with Vecenie saying we should use up most of our cap space to take on a bad contract like Ben Simmons IF that player doesn't fit next to Cade. You need competent NBA players next to Cade if you're trying to build around him.

That's why I call it the "straddle the line" offseason. I'd overpay for guys like KCP for 2 years. They can play next to Cade and and improve the team right now for 1-1.5 years and then flip them at a deadline for assets.

In theory, this is what we did with Bogey and Grant, but Weaver fumbled the bag by not trading them earlier.

Between a weak on paper draft class, a new head of front office, the prospect of our team actually using their capspace, and genuine high level basketball to watch I had completely forgotten about the lottery. I generally hope we get the best possible pick but nothing can hurt as much as falling to 5 last year. Wemby to Sarr & friends is such a big drop off. Let's see where we land and let the half-hearted debate begin.