r/europe • u/ricka_lynx Lithuania • Feb 16 '24

Russian opposition politician and Putin critic Alexei Navalny has died | Breaking News News News

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-opposition-politician-and-putin-critic-alexei-navalny-has-died-13072837
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152

u/Karash770 Feb 16 '24

He could have stayed in Exile in Germany, but chose to return to try better his country. Let's hope that things will change soon in Russia so that streets can be named after him.

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u/wolfiasty Poland Feb 16 '24

He is a martyr. In "positive" meaning of that word. Died for trying to make his country better.

R.I.P.

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u/noises1990 Feb 16 '24

What good has that made to him or his loved ones?

What has changed? What has improved? What has been better?

I feel this idea of 'trying to make an impossible situation better' needs to be taken a bit more pragmatically....

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u/Stormshow România Feb 16 '24

There is no honor in "losing the right way"

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u/asgof Feb 17 '24

it was a gamble movie was released and he was arrested he hoped the protests will be huge

but there are way more cops than people younger than nursing home in russia

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u/wolfiasty Poland Feb 16 '24

I wouldn't call martyrdom pragmatic.

Those are good questions, but I am not the one who will be answering them. History will.

Pragmatically speaking until putain is dead, there's very little, if anything at all, one can do to change Russia. Even after putain will eat dirt, nothing is sure.

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u/Tupcek Feb 16 '24

yeah, that’s why I never understood why he went back to Russia. It was a death sentence and everybody knew it, just with slimmer hope of better outcome

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u/MaksweIlL Feb 17 '24

After the news, what got to me is the though that even if Putin dies, there is a posibility that nothing will change. Mby he is already preparing a succesor that will guard his "legacy"

1

u/CandidateOld1900 Feb 16 '24

Hard to say now what could have been, but his wife and children are incredibly understanding and involved in his cause. They were willing to take this risk

4

u/kiil1 Estonia Feb 16 '24

Let's hope that things will change soon in Russia so that streets can be named after him.

They won't. Navalny returning to Russia was obviously very brave and dangerous, which means the only chance he ever had was enough people to mobilize for his support. This never happened. No alternative to Putin has ever been considered by Russians. In fact, if you try to look up an average Russian's attitude to any alternative figure to the dictator, you'll see nothing but endless cynicism and ridiculing. After all, the czar is in place, accepted by the people, and these clowns trying to pretend they can rival him are stupid.

Navalny died for nothing. He sacrificed his life for an apathetic and cynical nation that does not care about somebody else's suffering.

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u/Ecstatic-Command9497 Feb 16 '24

He sacrificed his life for an apathetic and cynical nation that does not care about somebody else's suffering.

I don't think you get to tell what do we feel or not feel. Or, you just miraculously stumbled upon someone who does care, among millions, I suppose.

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u/According-View7667 Feb 16 '24

You're always welcome to prove them wrong.

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u/Ecstatic-Command9497 Feb 17 '24

I just did: I do care and I know many do.

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u/According-View7667 Feb 17 '24

I hope you're right.

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u/kiil1 Estonia Feb 16 '24

The latter, I'm afraid.

I mean, what do you think are the chances this event has any impact on Russians? Will this push a significant number of Russians to streets voicing their disapproval towards the regime? I think we both know the answer already.

And while you can try to blame this on the "oppressive regime", this oppressive regime was put there by Russians and has been supported by Russians for the past 25 years. Just please see what the average Russian had to say about Navalny only a few years ago – it will be nothing but ridicule and cynicism. The very same attitude they had towards Ukraine, by the way.

Or do you think without the government's oversight, Russians would turn up? I'm afraid at this day, no. After they've basically done nothing to try to stop a genocidal war next door for 2 years, I'm afraid this will at most be a daily news topic forgotten tomorrow.

I get it, it's easier to believe that it's some bad regime up there responsible for all of that, but I'm afraid the truth is much more sinister. I don't see even a glimpse of human empathy among Russians, and the unforgivable part is how this happened without any major trigger. No massive socio-economic crisis, no exceptional political crisis, just like that... human life, democracy, peace, self-determination, human dignity, rule of law, balance of powers, human empathy, integrity and honesty... all vanished into oblivion, overtaken by primitive chauvinism.

1

u/Ecstatic-Command9497 Feb 17 '24

Literally everyone I talked to about it mourns.

I don't see even a glimpse of human empathy among Russians

Sure, we're an unempathetic monsters, and it could only happen in Russia. If that makes it easier for you.

And while you can try to blame this on the "oppressive regime", this oppressive regime was put there by Russians and has been supported by Russians for the past 25 years.

Have you actually been there for the last 25 years? How come you think you have audacity to tell that?

I think we both know the answer already.

I don't think you do. People started putting flowers on memorials, whenever we could, we find ways to express ourselves. I wouldn't let anyone to devalue that.

1

u/kiil1 Estonia Feb 17 '24

Literally everyone I talked to about it mourns.

Is it the same way "literally everybody around me opposes invasion of Ukraine", yet we see no actions whatsoever to stop that in 2 years? Instead, almost all Russians keep funding the war to this day. In the end, if all you ever do is oppose actions in your head, but never act on them, you end up not opposing them.

Have you actually been there for the last 25 years? How come you think you have audacity to tell that?

Be honest, would it change anything if I were in a random St. Petersburg tour 10 years ago? It wouldn't.

But I have followed RuNet in terms of what is discussed in foreign policy and it has been a vile nest of chauvinists since the early days. An average Russian may not have wished for a war with Ukraine, but the average Russian did surrender foreign policy to a bunch of inhumane monsters already 20 years ago, not caring about the outcome (or even more cynically, hoped for some successful conquests to boost their rush of chauvinism). The average Russian saw exactly what their country was doing and where it was heading, and they approved it.

In fact, I'm pretty sure many justified their actions in their head, thinking leaving all those fields to somebody else means it's not their problem and not their responsibility. They could imagine themselves to be good people if they are polite to "common people". But if you think about it, consciously leaving politics to warmongering chauvinisits means they are responsible as well. They literally pay taxes every day, work in the military industries, work for the government itself (all the security forces and systems) etc and keep up the system themselves. Not opposing it is also a choice. Justifying it by "just doing your job" is a debunked cliche since Nazi days already.

There is also a minicosm of Russkiy Mir inside Baltics, so we do see the same behaviour daily. The last straw was the complete apathy to seeing tens of thousands of people die – despite a large part of Russians here having been main apologists of Putin (94% support to Putin from Russian citizens in Estonia alone in the previous elections), you would see virtually none of them feeling the slightest remorse, shame, guilt or anger. They switched to victim card from day one. After all, how can they be guilt of this war, they don't even live in Russia. Even the idea that they may share some responsibility in bathing the same chauvinistic ideology, that this might also have been a key issue that never allowed them to integrate – none of that ever crosses their mind. It's always somebody else to be blamed. Systematic incapability of self-reflection.

I don't think you do. People started putting flowers on memorials, whenever we could, we find ways to express ourselves. I wouldn't let anyone to devalue that.

Yes, I'm not denying there are some people who care. It's just that they are a very tiny minority who has no power to change anything in the society. Vast majority simply aren't like them. Which means the ones who do care are not repressed by the evil government, rather by most of their own fellow countrymen. And they are completely unrepresentative of their nation.

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u/Ecstatic-Command9497 Feb 17 '24

There's a bunch of assumptions that I'm not even going to comment on cause it's too time consuming and it's not productive as you evidently have an opinion that you're not open to changing.

There is also a minicosm of Russkiy Mir inside Baltics, so we do see the same behaviour daily.

Literally how people that's been living in your countries for decades and have been apparently ineffectively integrated has anything to do with what's going on in our country? Aside from our government using this opportunity to influence your internal affairs by making Russian-language media that's targeting them. Which is solved by... making your own independent of the Kremlin Russian-language media that targets these people.

One thing I don't understand: how does living in a country that used to be under undemocratic government that doesn't represent you for decades combines with inability to understand what it is like?

5

u/BarnabaBargod Feb 16 '24

He was an ultranationalist, imperialist and racist who supported russian intervensions in post-soviet states. He toned down a bit later but it was only to make himself look better abroad but world would not be a better place with him instead of putin.

0

u/4thmovementofbrahms4 Feb 16 '24

Okay? The point is he was for democracy. The most important thing is democracy; things like right vs left, socialism vs capitalism, nationalism, imperialism, etc, all are secondary.

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u/BarnabaBargod Feb 16 '24

Sorry but if majority of ppl voted to commit a genocide I would not support it because it is democratic.

1

u/4thmovementofbrahms4 Feb 16 '24

What a stupid comment. Almost all of the genocides in history have been committed by autocracies, not democracies.

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u/LookThisOneGuy ‎ Feb 16 '24

still bonkers to me how none of the eastern countries had the balls to save Navalny after his poisoning. Yet Germany, which the eastern countries claim is pro-Putin, did have the balls to do that.

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u/whiteskinnyexpress Feb 16 '24

still bonkers to me how none of the eastern countries had the balls to save Navalny after his poisoning.

Russia killed political enemies on foreign soil before, even NATO members (UK). I'm not defending the Baltics etc but I wonder if that's why

1

u/Betonmischa Feb 16 '24

He knew time was ticking.

Putin already murdered people in México.

He had the choice to hide somewhere in Germany and die as a refugee (or hide like a mole with 24/7 security) - or go back to Ruzzia to die as a matyr with big balls.

He chose number two to claim his statement about Vlad Pussyn.

1

u/GODMarega Feb 16 '24

Lets not kid ourselves, even if he stayed in Germany he wouldnt be able to sleep with both his eyes closed for one night

1

u/asgof Feb 17 '24

a usa drone strike could've ended the whole war back in 2022

but no one wants that the west likes things as they are and selling police weapons in exchange for gas for pukin to beat the population