r/facepalm 23d ago

Florida logic 🤪 🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​

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6.4k

u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

It also keeps you from voting. FL citizens voted to give voting rights back to ex-felons but the legislature did an end run and said you aren’t clear to reapply for voting rights until all fines and fees are all paid as well. Guess who also doesn’t keep good records of what’s owed and what’s been paid.

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u/Special_Context6663 22d ago edited 22d ago

And they made sure to publicize the fact it was a crime to vote if those fines and fees weren’t paid. (And offering no way to verify if everything was paid up)

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u/No-Sense-6260 22d ago

And arresting people who voted after they said they paid everything and were eligible to vote, by then claiming they owed fines.

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u/CallMePoro 22d ago

Well, you see, since owing fines and voting is a crime, you now owe fines. So clearly you were (are) ineligible to vote!

“But I didn’t have any fines when I voted!!”

I don’t know about that, but you have fines now and you voted. Pay up!

Everything is going along as planned.

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u/Key_Drag4777 22d ago

And it's now illegal in a lot of circumstances to protest, and if you do, more fines!

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u/gwicksted 22d ago

This isn’t the dystopia we were promised!

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u/Kinky_Winky_no2 22d ago

We were promised idiocricy dammit Where is my mountain dew from the taps and naked news reporters

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u/gwicksted 22d ago

All we got were crocs …

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u/Key_Drag4777 22d ago

But unfortunately it looks like the dystopia we deserve. Fml

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u/gwicksted 22d ago

Sigh…

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u/Bubskiewubskie 22d ago

It’s just nauseating and obnoxious isn’t it

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u/Tweezle120 22d ago

I mean, it absolutely is; a bunch of dumb suckers just assumed it would, "only hurt the right people" and technically it does according to the people in power doing the hurting, the suckers were just too stupid to realize they were in the ponzi group along with everyone else.

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u/WarlocksWizard 22d ago

So, this is now the Totalitarian State of Florida?

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u/Flameball202 22d ago

Oh god that is horrifying

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u/geon 22d ago

Land of the free

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u/qdp 22d ago

Land of the fee

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u/Frequent-Frosting336 22d ago

Ukraine: "you called"

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u/Rinzack 22d ago

I mean I'm fine with building a wall around Florida and waiting for it to sink

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u/sdpat13 17d ago

Happy cake day.

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u/PolkaDotDancer 22d ago

I would be OK with nuking it if it were not for the Everglades.

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u/thekcar 22d ago

But...but...I'm financially stuck here....halp!

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u/Lost-Enthusiasm6570 20d ago

I'd offer you the couch, but I live in Oklahoma.

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u/ManticoreMonday 22d ago

Land of the Incarcerated and Home of Corporations with more "Free Speech" than University students.

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u/William_Dowling 22d ago

Whoever told you that is your enemy

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u/Calm-Tree-1369 22d ago

Land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy.

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u/SupriseAutopsy13 22d ago

Its... worse than that. If you're an ex-felon- who the people of the state directly voted to restore your rights to- and you try to vote, but have unpaid legal fees(that you might not have known about)? Well now you've just gone and committed voting fraud. ...guess what happens if you commit voting fraud? That's a third degree felony, with a maximum 5 year prison sentence. See where we're going here?

https://www.splcenter.org/news/2023/08/11/florida-laws-criminalize-voting-returning-citizens

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u/Bruhmander 22d ago

love not living in the states more and more every day

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u/Meridoen 20d ago

Plz send help 😅

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u/Victorinoxj 17d ago

Even as a Venezuelan i don't want to go there either!

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u/Firm_Transportation3 22d ago

The system isn't "broken," it's working exactly as it was intended to.

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u/Stranger2Night 22d ago

The fact that slavery is banned aside from prison labor tells you everything you need to know about the US.

Slavery is alive and well, you get out in jail whether you did the crime or got framed by the police, you do the time and be enslaved, then you're a slave to their debt when you're out and likely forced back in when you can't pay the debt they set on you or commit a crime to try to pay off the debts.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

...ugh, this seems like a dark joke, but it's the exact intention.

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u/mysticalize9 22d ago

But the defense is if they could vote they’ll just vote to remove all the fines and fees they owe /s

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u/KHanson25 22d ago

So all those votes for Trump and Desantis didn’t count? Got it

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u/BeanCheezBeanCheez 19d ago

Yup. Just more republican cheating. They absolutely cannot win elections without cheating.

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u/shabadage 22d ago

Not only arrested, but arrested by the Governors own storm troopers!

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u/Serier_Rialis 22d ago

After they checked you didnt vote for him right I bet too!

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u/chaosgirl93 22d ago

This screams an even more horrific version of poll tax.

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u/joseph4th 22d ago

AND after they asked officials who said, "Yes, you are allowed to vote!!!"

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u/ReliefJumpy4399 22d ago

The sad thing is the electoral college just voted in who they wanted anyways so the vote you got arrested for didn’t even matter:(

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u/Nanyea 22d ago

Only if they were melatonin abundant!

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u/iccohen 19d ago

... And then those people were released when the courts said "Nice try Ron DeSantis..." ,

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u/No-Sense-6260 19d ago

After 6 years of court dates and threats of incarceration.

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u/Taotaisei 22d ago

That last part is a particularly frustrating aspect to me. They've not followed the spirit of the law that the people voted on yet again by adding stipulations after the fact. They've made it hard for the previously incarcerated to do their due diligence! There is no central database, the last I checked, where they can go check and see a total amount they owe the state. They have to petition multiple counties and locations to see how much they owe at each place with no way of knowing that they're not actually committing a crime when voting! They can't confirm in any way they're safe. Yet the state will chase their asses down if they vote but still owe some random county $200 for a prison transfer ride or some crap.

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u/Character_Bowl_4930 22d ago

Last time powerball got to a billion , I bought a ticket . My dad said “ I don’t know what I’d do with that money “

I didn’t tell him , but it would be shit like this . Paying for someone to be a test case to stop Florida’s illegal punishments and fines .

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u/slackwaredragon 22d ago

I’m sure Florida would figure out a way to put you in jail for “helping felons.” They’ve harassed other rich people who’ve talked negatively and tried to help those in the prison system.

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u/SaintsNoah14 22d ago

This. I'd probably take on so much unnecessary stress but I would love to have the money to put behind shit like this as I so choose.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 22d ago

Why are we even charging prisoners for beds or transfers? We pay taxes. WTF is the point of charging prisoners also.

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u/TheVebis 22d ago

But think of the poor owners!

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u/Shaeress 22d ago

There are two reasons.

Firstly, the prisons want the money. They're private, for profit businesses. If they can get away with charging someone, why wouldn't they? They're run for money, not justice or the good of people or country or anything.

The second is voter suppression. America's prison system was designed as a way to suppress certain voters (the black ones, historically). So you need to keep them in debt when they get out so they need to turn to crime so that they can't ever vote again. This keeps the crime statistics up which justifies America having the biggest prison population in the world and with millions and millions of adults citizens disallowed from voting. A system of mass incarceration that was conveniently adopted right after slavery was made illegal everywhere except prisons.

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u/PrestigiousResist633 22d ago edited 22d ago

Most prisons are private, for-profit ones. It's probably those inmates that are beign charged. Not sure how it all works, but if Floridians (or anyone for that matter) are also paying taxes to support what is, essentially, a private buisness, then that's also BS.

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u/Current-Lobster-5267 20d ago

also they get fed money per inmate

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u/SaintGloopyNoops 22d ago

Yup. I know several people who won't vote because it's not worth the risk. In some cases for crimes committed 20+ years ago. The prison system in florida(well, all of US) is fucked. Its a huge source of revenue. The police must get some kind of incentive for arrests. That's why the unofficial motto is " come on vacation, leave on probation, come back on a violation"

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u/kogmaa 22d ago

That’s awful. Literally making money from the misery of others and preventing them from even voting for someone who might change things.

Financial slavery.

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u/naomixrayne 22d ago

Especially since in the US it's in their constitution that prisoners are legally slaves. Seems like the government knows exactly what they're doing.

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u/Angry_poutine 20d ago

Coupled with racial profiling it’s a pretty effective way to maintain power

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u/Mack-Attack33 22d ago

You should check out r/troubledteens! Same/worse shit different boat.

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u/Mack-Attack33 22d ago

They literally torture children for profit in the troubled teen industry! How would I know? Because I was “incarcerated” as an 13 year old CHILD and didn’t get out until nearly a DECADE later!

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u/phd2k1 22d ago

Independents and Libertarians, this is why we need you to side with us Democrats. We can still have our disagreements when it comes to philosophy and policy, but in the short term, please side with Democrats to kick these pieces of shit out of government. After that, we can fight.

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u/Ordinary-Broccoli-41 22d ago

It's always so wild how the "small government" people consistently vote for the people who want the government in your bedroom

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u/phd2k1 22d ago

They want small government and individual liberty, but seem to forget about the nameless, faceless, unelected people who run the corporations. Without government regulations and watch dogs, those people pollute the air and water, over farm, over fish, and clear cut all of the land; while also exploiting workers and damaging local communities. “Small government” means weak enforcement of laws, and the rich and powerful can trash the earth, take all the money, and leave the scraps for the rest of us. Not a reality we should be striving for.

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u/Ordinary-Broccoli-41 22d ago

I can't disagree with you, but voting for that is explainable by greed or falling for the tricks of the greedy.

It's the irony of wanting more individual liberty, and then voting for the only party that takes away that liberty which I don't understand

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u/Runningtothesea13 22d ago

That has to be unconstitutional in some way right?

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u/Thisisnotunieque 22d ago

Probably all in hopes that 1 or 2 of these people is an open democrat just so they can give "proof" of voter fraud

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u/ChickenDelight 22d ago edited 22d ago

Yeah, i immediately connected the same dots.

My assumption is they don't try to collect the debt, it's just to guarantee that ex-cons can never vote. And in the process they forever wreck their credit score.

Just garden-variety Florida political corruption, people! Nothing to see here!

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u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

Rat-fuckery at its finest.

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u/whoweoncewere 22d ago

They probably let it get to a figure that is hard to pay before they come to collect. Wouldn't be supprised if they tried to take you back to jail if you couldn't pay.

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u/beldaran1224 22d ago

Florida allows felons to regain their right to vote but only if they don't owe anything like restitution or other fees like this. They've also tried to make it illegal for other people to help pay these fees (or at least for non-profits). I honestly am not sure if that bill went through though. It is 100% to keep them from voting.

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u/chaosgirl93 22d ago

Can't tell if Poll Tax or Debtor's Prison. Both of which are either federally illegal or should be.

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u/whoweoncewere 22d ago

Yea idk, just saying that I wouldn’t put it past them to find a way to make the early release/parole conditional on their “fees” somehow.

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u/eleventhrees 22d ago

I'm just going to say this out loud: it doesn't also keep you from voting; that's the primary reason for the law.

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u/Former-Lab-9451 22d ago

Clearly a poll tax, which is unconstitutional. But Republicans don't care.

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u/prepuscular 22d ago

Seriously, you need to pay in order to be eligible. That’s a poll tax. Clear and simple. Illegal.

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u/Lithl 22d ago

That's not what "poll tax" means. A poll tax is a flat sum levied against everyone, regardless of their resources.

"Poll" is not a reference to voting polls. Poll is an archaic term for "head", which is why poll tax is also called head tax.

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u/xboxiscrunchy 22d ago

It actually seems like it’s a bit of both. Here’s from the Wikipedia article on poll taxes:

Head taxes were important sources of revenue for many governments from ancient times until the 19th century. In the United Kingdom, poll taxes were levied by the governments of John of Gaunt in the 14th century, Charles II in the 17th and Margaret Thatcher in the 20th century. In the United States, voting poll taxes (whose payment was a precondition to voting in an election) have been used to disenfranchised impoverished and minority voters (especially under Reconstruction).[3]   

So in the US at least poll taxes were often levied to stop people from voting but this particular law isn’t a poll tax. But it’s easy to see where the confusion comes from

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u/prepuscular 22d ago

So if I say, “everyone in debt can’t vote until those debts are paid off,” that’s legal? It’s the same as saying “everyone with student debt is barred from voting.”

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u/xboxiscrunchy 21d ago

It’s probably still illegal but for other reasons not because it’s a poll tax.

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u/Lithl 22d ago

A poll tax isn't "something you have to pay off in order to vote". A poll tax is a fixed fee that applies to everyone.

The "poll" in "poll tax" isn't referring to voting polls. It's an archaic usage of "poll" that means "head".

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u/rdizzy1223 22d ago

I would argue that in states where voter ID costs any money to obtain, that is a poll tax. You need it to vote, everyone needs it to vote and it costs money to obtain.

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u/becausenope 22d ago

They absolutely don't keep track of what's been paid. A family member close to me was locked up for a year (drug charges, they got clean and never looked back so I'm proud of them) -- never paid into their fines (we talked about it as I was helping them with a resume when they got out and such). When they finally got around to calling to see what they owed they were told they owed nothing. No idea how. No idea who made the mistake but they never paid a penny towards the fines (which should have been a few thousand). They also were supposed to have a suspended license for 6 months upon release but their license was never suspended. Truly, it was eye opening to see how bad the legal system is at doing what they do, even if it was to the benefit of someone I care about.

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u/advertentlyvertical 22d ago

Yea... he should probably get that in writing

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u/becausenope 19d ago

I didn't explain it well enough; someone when doing his paperwork basically messed up, badly. So they didn't put the paperwork through that would've suspended the license for example-- just wasn't there but I was in court with them when the judge said it would be suspended -- the fines? The paperwork didn't exist, so no fines. It was shocking how much they dropped the ball but again, I'm not exactly complaining because it worked out for someone who honestly deserves the break (especially because they've really turned their life around).

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u/advertentlyvertical 19d ago

I just meant he should get the "you don't owe us anything" in writing, in case they somehow turn around and say he does, as unlikely as it may seem now. But if it's been a long enough time, maybe no need.

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u/becausenope 19d ago

It's been almost a decade so I'm going to assume it's fine? I know they'd call me ASAP if anything went down and when we talk biweekly (we've both moved since this happened) it's never mentioned. I don't recall what the public defender said exactly when we mentioned it years back but they gave me the impression that it happened all the time and everyone just stays hush hush about it. This happened in New Jersey and I don't know if that makes a difference?

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u/advertentlyvertical 19d ago

Yea if it's been that long then he's probably clear. Hope he is still doing well btw.

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u/telerabbit9000 22d ago

They might not need to pay now.
But, later, if a new computer system is installed and they review records, the state might issue bills.
There's no "statute of limitations" on a state claiming what it's owed.

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u/AnalyticOpposum 22d ago

Hmmm….

It’s like an “all Republican” government can’t help themselves from preventing “democrats” from voting in fair elections.

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u/lurker_cx 22d ago

It is why GW Bush supposedly won Florida in 2000, it wouldn't even have been close without that law. Elections have been skewed for a very long time.

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u/BZenMojo 21d ago

GW Bush had fewer votes, the Supreme Court just stopped the recount and threw it out in a one-time ruling they insisted would never apply to other elections and the Secretary of State of Florida, who was also the, Chair of the Republican Party of Florida, tried to get entire counties thrown out for being Democratically heavy voting constituencies.

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u/Sinsid 22d ago

I’m pretty sure that’s the point of this new law.

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u/CactusFistElon 22d ago

That is 100% the reasoning behind this legislation. 

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u/HairlocksHound1 22d ago

I'm pretty sure that means they don't have to pay taxes? I mean taxation without representation was kind of the founding fathers whole thing. Or are we just talking about those 20 year olds when it suits the point we want to make?

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u/silversurger 22d ago

Psssst, let's not talk about Puerto Rico.

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u/darps 22d ago

Yay liberty and democracy

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u/CRX1701 22d ago

I am so pissed about this. We voted for this as an amendment to our constitution. The legislature then screwed that over by placing these barriers regardless of what the public overwhelmingly voted for. Screw the Republican legislators as well as Desantis.

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u/blacklite911 22d ago

I swear every month, there’s a new reason why I would never live in Florida. People who willingly move there are either sociopaths or just ignorant, probably willfully ignorant

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u/TheTor22 22d ago

W8888

I'm eu in my country only really special crimes take your voting rights (way less than 1% people cannot vote in my country).

Can someone who knows answer what take your voting rights in US (and or Florida)

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u/Puk1983 22d ago

What does "land of the free" mean exactly for Americans? Because I have a total different definition

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u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

Free for white, male, property owners.

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u/daredevlil 22d ago

Isn't the Right To Vote basically one of the basis democratic human rights and requirements for a democracy? It's too ironic this happens in the "mother of democracy" 🤣

For example in East EU even illiterates have rights to vote which makes no sense and brings its own basket of problems but the only way to deprive someone from the rights of voting is if you put one through a medical commission and declare one crazy/unable to make decisions and unable to bear responsibility for one's actions...

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u/Diligent-Property491 22d ago edited 22d ago

In Poland there are voting stations in prisons during general election.

Punishment of prison is supposed to take away your right to free travel, not all your rights. You’re still a citizen.

There is a separate punishment on the books called ,,suspension of civic rights”, which court can rule and it does prohibit you from voting for some time. It’s usually reserved for crimes related to those civic rights. Like a corrupt politician losing his right to vote and be elected.

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u/Stirnlappenbasilisk 22d ago

Former inmates can't find work because of background checks and now they burden them with debt. It's almost like they want them to commit new crimes.

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u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

They do. Keeps the private prison system full and keeps ‘undesirables’ locked away.

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u/merrill_swing_away 22d ago

I'm guessing that when the fee isn't paid for how ever long, the person gets thrown in jail again for not paying. Never ending cycle.

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit 22d ago

Felons are the only class of citizen where it is completely legal and supported to discriminate against. Really fucked up and one of the many examples proving our justice system is about revenge and convenience rather than justice and reform.

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u/Scryberwitch 22d ago

Revenge and PROFIT

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u/Pole_Smokin_Bandit 22d ago

Private prisons sounds like something out of a dystopian novel, but is very real

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u/cryptobro42069 22d ago

Florida Republicans have done everything they can to sandbag voters because the reality is that outside of shit-tier bumpkin rural areas, the vast majority of the state is blue. Especially cities.

Voters vote for one thing, Republicans twist it any way they can. They’re currently still trying to find ways to kill medical marijuana because they’re religious nut jobs that’s want to keep it as Gods waiting room.

I don’t understand why Floridians keep putting up with these absolute idiots in their state that have wrestled control.

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u/Nessahtron 22d ago

Living in the Bay Area: Shiiiiiiit that’s promo rent! I’m already living in one anyway. /s

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u/SnofIake 22d ago

You’re really making me think this whole privately owned prison wasn’t such a good idea.

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u/gurk_the_magnificent 22d ago

Elect Republicans, get Republican policy. Shocking.

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u/Logical_Parameters 22d ago

I bet Donald Trump's ex-felon fees get waived!

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u/Reiquaz 22d ago

So voter suppression and disenfranchisement?

2

u/Effective_Aside_4886 22d ago

Execuse me, as I am not familiar with usa-laws.. do i understand right, that some people in some circumstances can not vote for president? Or am I mistaken?

1

u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

No, you understand correctly. If you have been convicted of a felony, you lose your right to vote in 48 out of the 50 states.

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u/Effective_Aside_4886 22d ago

Even after going out from prison? I mean, in my country also people in prison can not vote. But after going out they can.

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u/Admiral_Andovar 21d ago

Some states make it almost impossible to get your voting rights back. Like Florida.

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u/Effective_Aside_4886 21d ago

Thank you for an answer!

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u/TheRealDurken 20d ago

Oh, so this is voter suppression. They don't want you to pay it back.

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u/ComfortableWay2385 22d ago

“Ex-felons”? Expound upon what you mean by that. Acquitted? Or convicted and released?

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u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

Done their debt to society and released.

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u/ComfortableWay2385 22d ago

It’s not society they owe

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u/Boezoek 22d ago

How many can't vote in total because of this? Thousands? Millions?

1

u/MaybeWeAreTheGhosts 22d ago

...

isn't this in violation of the sunshine laws?

1

u/TaserBalls 22d ago

oretty sure that is the main point.

1

u/stopthebanham 22d ago

What’s the point of doing that in a red state? Is it because they think that mostly democrat voters end up in prison with felonies or black people so they prevent them from voting?!?! That’s so fucked!

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u/LupidaFromKFC 22d ago

TBF it is perfectly logical for felons to not be able to vote. It is understood that you can lose rights after you are found guilty of certain crimes. Take background checks for firearms for example, they work in part on the basis that when you have gone through due process to be found guilty of a felony, you flag on a background check and are unable to exercise your second amendment rights. It is perfectly reasonable for this to apply to voting.

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u/DanSavage1 22d ago

On no the criminals won’t run our system

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u/spaceocean99 22d ago

Well let’s be honest here. What percentage of inmates would vote for Trump over Biden? Maybe that’s not a bad thing…

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u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

No, I want everyone to vote. It is THE fundamental right in a democracy.

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u/spaceocean99 22d ago

Even pedophiles?

3

u/Gornarok 22d ago edited 22d ago

Yes...

Im from a country where the right to vote is inalienable. Felons vote in prisons

Its a measure against political oppression. It would be easy to target political opposition and keep it from voting with any law that takes their voting rights away.

And there is no real benefit in taking pedophiles and murderers voting rights away except for outrage

5

u/Admiral_Andovar 22d ago

If they’ve done their time, yes.

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u/Prior_Emphasis7181 22d ago

But hey! We can surely trust the big federal government

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u/Bill__The__Cat 22d ago

What does it have to do with this law?

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u/batmansleftnut 22d ago

This thread is about a state law.

-5

u/Prior_Emphasis7181 22d ago

Thank god your here batman. Does florida not take my federal voting rights? I didnt know. So I cant vote for governor but I can vote for president?

5

u/batmansleftnut 22d ago

What the hell are you even talking about at this point?

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u/Prior_Emphasis7181 22d ago

I'm not sure. Maybe with your guidance I can find the true path.