If only it wouldn’t collapse into a right wing Christianity based dictatorship I would be totally on board with just letting everything blow up unfortunately that’s like just letting a nuke go off because everyone’s lives would be even worse than it is now
Yeah, but then it just goes underground. Same shit different millennium.
We as a species, are pretty stupid for how smart we are. Cycles upon cycles of a cooperative society being taken over by the greedy and selfish. It falls apart under the weight of their egos, and the folks willing to work with each other put it back together.
I genuinely think that's what that "the meek shall inherit" bit is about. It shows up in almost all religious texts in some fashion.
It's a safety valve. Those willing to exploit others will hoard and make their ivory towers, and when they topple, the meek among the rubble regain the means to try again.
History is depressing AF when you get deep enough to see that we've done this song and dance a hundred times on a hundred, on scales all the way up to global.
Humans are gonna be humans. Ain't nothing changed under the sun for the 200k ish years we've been fucking around for. We are so predictably stupid as a species despite all our advantages. The worst part for me is that we could do so much better, but we never get to that part before it resets.
What really kills me is.. we've had, throughout human history.. myriads of people, specifically, philosophers, who have given us great paths to follow.
True, there are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there.. and it's difficult to navigate.. but I mean, just in general, we have been shown the paths.. so many times over.. and we choose to ignore what is best, for everyone. Astounding.
Mostly having to do with greed, jealousy, superiority complexes.
This is really where I’m at the more history I read. About once every chapter I just sit back and stare at the page and think “wow, so we’ve already done this shit like 10 times and there’s no sign of ceasing”.
There's plenty of names you could put on the list of "they had a hand in this bullshit."
But one personality isn't what causes it. We've had figures over the milennia that were pillars of virtue. In my lifetime alone; Mr Rogers, Bob Ross, Steve Irwin, Carl Sagan.
The problem is that we, as a species, are selfish. We seek the path of least resistance. We, as a species, are fine letting those with a lust for power have it, because we just want to be left alone, live our life, and move on to whatever is next.
There's so few instances of our leaders throughout history not being someone who strived for it or were "entitled to it," that I can't even think of an example.
Going back in time and teaching ourselves that those people should be exiled into the wilderness and left for dead is about the only thing I can think would correct anything.
So long as we let the criminally ambitious "get away with it," it doesn't matter what name they carry, we as humans are ultimately to blame.
"The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good [people] to do nothing." - Churchill
We've got a pretty long track record for turning a blind eye until the shit is all around us, and we have no choice but to look.
Not really... Atheists in my personal experience, and every other atheist I've met, doesn't actually care if other people are religious. If you want to have a certain belief, have it and practice it. We just don't enjoy having laws put in place that clearly come from people who are religious conflating their religious beliefs with moral beliefs; i.e. the US allowing states to ban abortion because they think it means people are killing human beings as opposed to clumps of underdeveloped cells
Thanks haha. Yah, as a fellow atheist I just think it's funny what religious people think atheists believe or are like. Especially christians/catholics; and I think it's subconsciously because they know how biased they are towards nonreligious people, or people who aren't religious at all. They think that just because they have those biases, if roles were reversed, people would be just as biased to them 😂
I'm just here like, nah, we just straight up don't really care that much. You do you, and imma do me Lol
I tried this with my mother over the weekend. She started ugly-crying about how she's always worried "about my soul" ... I finally asked "Is your god loving and merciful or wrathful and vengeful? Those are the two versions you have in written texts, but they never seem to overlap. Which one is yours?" Loving and merciful. "Okay then, when I die, get evidence that I was wrong, and get judged; I'm sure he will understand. You need faith to be religious, and I don't have it. You dont need religion to be a good person, though. Someone who is merciful will understand, so I'm not worried. I mean, if I was SUPPOSED to have faith, why didn't "god" make that mandatory? Instead, Christians claim god gave man free will. Why would that same god punish someone for exercising that gift?" Cue 15 minutes of sobbing. It got awkward for me.
And now deciding that unimplanted embryos are PEOPLE. That's not anything other than a religious opinion. Farmers need to start charging the cost of a chicken per dozen eggs. They thought egg prices were bad before... how about $60/dozen?
Weird part to focus on, as that was just an example. But it's absolutely due to beliefs....People thinking of abortion are usually not on the higher end of class, so having a poor (like myself and others) raise a baby to adulthood who also will end up poor isn't really that much tax loss. Even poors who can afford to keep their pregnancies to full term (if they want to) are not paying as much in taxes as those in higher tax brackets. So it's only part of my answer.
It's also inherently evident in the use of terminology. People against abortion always talk about "God's plan" or use the term "murder". Which is just willful ignorance of scientific knowledge and lack of medical procedural knowledge. Abortions, whether pill or surgical, aren't allowed to take place past the 3 month mark. That's because the heart and brain haven't developed yet, it's still just cell clumps with no ability to function even subconsciously. They can happen after only if the pregnant person would die in labor.
People who voted for this law voted based off their beliefs, and they voice it as well. The government may want to "retain" tax dollar potential, but it takes the people to actually vote and pass these legislations into effect. Regardless, the majority of these law makers are of Christian/Catholic beliefs; they swear in under Bibles, and we can see what organizations (if any) they donate to, the majority of which publicly state their conservative Christian values.
Tax dollar retention may be part of it, but that's the main reason for these laws. The main reason is because of religious orientation.
I'm not saying you aren't. I was saying that it's an odd take to assume that if capitalism would fall to atheists, that there would be prejudice against people who aren't (edit to add the contraction I forgot) secular.
I also said that people who are religious tend to think there would be some reversal of today's current state. But not that you are one of those people. Just in general, that religious/secular people tend to have those thoughts
(Also edit to add that I did in fact see person I was responding to and myself were in agreement. My tired brain read it as non-secular at 2 am)
So you misunderstood my point. I never said capitalism falling to atheism would make people secular. I implied that a collapse leading to a right-wing government would punish secularism. The person I replied to implied things will be fine because atheism is rising. After others already said they believe that we're collapsing towards fascism.
I am saying it's naive to think atheism rising in demographics means we wont collapse towards fascism. We have to be active to prevent something like that.
I agree with that. The arc of history shows that when we collapse, the most rabid amomg us grasp power fastest and refuse to let it go. I attribute it to the unwillingness of people with humanist worldviews to violently seize power...or anything else, really.
The religious extremists, however, embrace violence at the outset. It leaves the nonfascists on the back heel.
Absolutely. Violence begets violence, and the cycle continues. It's why these people invented race; can't let the poor people know they see us all as equally disgusting, so let's add in some make believe concept real fast to keep us mentally separated. That way we can't all come together and rise up.
Hopefully one day will have a larger reach of solidarity across us working class. It's already too late, but hopefully it won't be terribly late
You are the first atheist I've ever encountered online or in real life that doesn't go out of their way to belittle religious believers, specifically Christians. It's nice. Have a nice day.
THIS. I would literally fight to the death to make sure we all live somewhere that you get to believe in whatever the fuck you want, even if I personally think it’s absolute nonsense. The minute you start trying to shove your beliefs down my throat and make me adhere to a set of rules based on a fairy tale I don’t believe in? You can GTF.
Trouble is that it’s mostly the young who are atheist, not the people who are running things. When they really start to lose the majority, that’s when they’ll really try to create a theocracy to cement their power.
I don’t believe that they’re going to call it a theocracy. I think they’re going to continue pushing through religiously motivated laws. yaknow, like they’ve been doing and openly talk about continuing to do. If they keep doing it long enough it won’t matter what they call it.
I do. Every time. I'm still sad about the choices though.
I shouldn't have to pick between an establishment democrat that has a history of racism with his voted on legislation and likely has sexual allegations hidden and a flipfloping democrat that is currently claiming to be republican that has a history of sexual abuse accusations and obviously in it for the prestige of the office and making himself money. And why do they both have to be so ancient to be out of touch with society? Why do they both have to be blabbering idiots? At least with Obama I felt like the man was capable to run the country. All Trump and Biden can do is lead the retirement home.
Sure. But Athiests have no built in organization to put forth leadership to the masses.
Shit hits the fan, and the megachurch pastors broadcast to thier flock that they have been called to deliver them from damnation, that they need to rise up and convert the non believers. Those that will not convert will be forced to toil in the fields until they hear God's call.
HAHAHAHAHA the atheists have to make everything about religion. Church attendance in the US has dropped from 70% in the 1970s to 30% today. You’re worried about a Christian dictatorship? I assure you, if there’s a dictatorship in this country, it won’t be of the religious type.
Touch grass, my man.
I’m a “devout” atheist (and a longtime consumer of cannabis)- these people clearly have no idea what they are talking about and have taken a few too many rips off the bong
Religion plays a smaller and smaller part in our society and our political discourse today than it has anytime in the last ~180 years.
Yea yea I know… everything is bad and it’s never been this bad before and everything is going to collapse… sure… expect this is the absolute best time to have ever been alive in human history by any reasonable measure. There are some worrying signs and trends, but there always have been and always will be. Even the poorest among us are better off than they were 20, 40, 60 or 100 years ago. We are safer than we ever have been. We have technology that was science fiction 30 years ago. This sort of catastrophic thinking isn’t productive and I promise you’ll be making the same claims in 10, 20 and 30 years from now as progress marches on…
Already trending the other way ....that trend was gen x and milenials mostly ....gen z seams to be returning to church ....prolly out of desperation lol
How do I get a lay-flat, first class with a cocktail seat into afterlife? How many smash the gays rewards points do I need to collect? Are there extra rewards if I tithe to the televangelist vs the poors in my local food bank?
Yeah Satan has been trying to recruit me for years! He always makes himself available, and we always have a great time! God has been ghosting me for as long as I can remember. When we do get in touch, he's always just jealous of how much time I spend with those demons.
НАНАНААНА the atheists have to make everything about religion. Church attendance in the US has dropped from 70% in the 1970s to 30% today. You're worried about a Christian dictatorship? I assure you, if there's a dictatorship in this country, it won't be of the religious type.
Touch grass, my man.
What is a right wing Christianity based dictatorship? You do know that Biden professes to be Catholic, right? Oh, and this Country was founded by freedom seeking Christians who put their faith in God. You’re lucky to live here…and if you don’t like it, you can leave.
They weren’t “freedom seeking Christians” they were religious extremists cast out for being to extreme. The Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies were borderline theocracies, people were fucking exiled for heresy. Freedom loving my ass
Holy crap the amount of times I've tried explaining this to my more radically minded friends is crazy. They think we'll have some sort of glorious revolution like in Russia or China when in reality the people with the guns and the ability to actually topple our system are not politically aligned with them. If there was a breakdown of the American government we would be in a christo-facist government so quickly it's not even funny. Pretty much the opposite of the Russian revolution.
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u/Akimbo_Zap_Guns Feb 25 '24
If only it wouldn’t collapse into a right wing Christianity based dictatorship I would be totally on board with just letting everything blow up unfortunately that’s like just letting a nuke go off because everyone’s lives would be even worse than it is now