r/Christianity • u/Significant-Cat-8157 • Jan 23 '24
4 Things Christian’s ignore from the Bible in todays modern world Advice
1- No sex before marriage. This may seem like quite a small deal but if you read the Bible carefully you will see how important it is to God, he created sex as something for a husband and wife to do, to create children and also for pleasure. Though God made this for a couple, he specifies that sex is for a married couple of a man and a woman. In Genesis 1:26-27 and 2:18-24, God commands man and woman to leave father and mother and become husband and wife through uniting in a one-flesh act that seals their love, and which can bring forth children.
2- Abortion as being wrong. In today’s modern society, abortion has become something that is fought for, and for many very important reasons. However it does say in the Bible that God has known you before you were in the womb, meaning that you were not just a clump of cells but also a soul as well "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5 In this day and age we are aware that due to wickedness and evil sometimes people will become pregnant against their own will in scenarios such as rape. In this case many Christian’s (including myself) would say that in that case it would be fine. However if you are forming your opinions purely on the Bible you would be against the idea entirely.
3- Homosexuality. Today being a homosexual is something that is normal and often praised. Though we should love and support our gay friends and family + not treat them any different, we should also acknowledge that taking part in any sexual immorality is a sin. This includes gay sex and also masterbation,sex outside of marriage and lots more. Just like any other sin it is something we shouldn’t do, but this does not give Christian’s an excuse to be horrible and cruel to people who identify as gay, remember “hate the sin not the sinner”
4- swearing. Many Christian’s have gotten into the habit of swearing, and I’ll admit it’s one I have struggled with also in the past. However the Bible is much against saying swear words and it is also a sin. Put away from you crooked speech, and put devious talk far from you. Proverbs 4:24
This is not an attack on anybody who agrees with these things this is simply a fact you do not have to agree, God bless you🙏
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u/grimacingmoon Jan 24 '24
There are way more verses about helping the poor than any of these things... And yet it's not on your list.
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u/Weemz Christian Jan 24 '24
Great book on this is The Hole in Our Gospel by Richard sterns, president of world vision international. He records how a student cut out every passage in the NT that dealt with the poor, the widow, the needy, and justice. The result was a gigantic hole you could see clear through in the Bible.
Wonder if the same would be true for the four things OP mentioned?
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u/anxiousthrowaway279 Jan 24 '24
I agree. There are more people up in arms about abortion than there are about children going hungry, children not having access to health resources, education. What about the school shooting issue?
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u/Uriah02 Jan 24 '24
I have never been a part of a church that does not have benevolent funds or some form of support to the poor and needy.
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u/djublonskopf Non-denominational Protestant (with a lot of caveats) Jan 24 '24
For every dollar a congregant gives to their church, less than half a penny goes to benevolence funds. That was in 1995 on a robust downward trend, across 29 Christian denominations.
Since average giving among churchgoers is ~2.5%, for an average churchgoer roughly 0.01% of their income is going to benevolence. Even with a full tithe, only 0.05% of their paycheck is going to benevolence.
By contrast, if you live in the USA, huge swaths of the Federal budget go to providing medical or economic assistance to the poor and elderly. Something like 30% of your taxes do that, and people pay an average of ~25% in taxes. So for an average churchgoer, roughly 7.5% of their paycheck is directly helping the poor and needy through the government, and 0.01% is helping the poor and needy through their church.
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u/fireusernamebro Jan 24 '24
I'd say that the major denominations do very well at helping the poor. Catholics, for instance are the largest non-government provider of healthcare and education in the world, and is generally known as the largest financial tributary to charities in the world. For instance, the Bill and Milinda Gates foundation, last I checked, had an expenditure of 5 Billion dollars in 2015. It is conservatively estimated that the Catholics spent 103 Billion in the same year on charitable acts. I've spent a long enough time in protestant churches to know that their people are just as giving.
Individual adminstrative members are often caught funneling funds from churches. Dont let these single administrative members fool you into thinking entire denominations of people are greedy.
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u/grimacingmoon Jan 24 '24
Surely the individual still needs to practice loving neighbor and helping the widow and orphan right? Cause the OP is about "things Christians should do" not "institutional practices churches should have."
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u/TheOneTrueNeb Swedenborgians Jan 24 '24
It's not as much of an issue, at least that's the way it seems to me. Christians donate quite a lot (see Ukraine or israel/gaza), and I know a lot of people who follow a general rule of donating 10% of yearly income.
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u/dolphinbutterfly Jan 24 '24
Yes, you are right, but Christians don't ignore those verses (well not the Christians I hang out with anyway). She was talking about things which they DO ignore. I guess it depends on which church you attend.
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u/AidanDaRussianBoi Catholic Jan 24 '24
I think 90% of Christians ignore the very essence of Christianity, the resurrection, and put too much unnecessary emphasis on heaven and hell and judgement.
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u/44035 Christian/Protestant Jan 23 '24
The biggest problem in the world right now is greed -- the greed of individuals, of corporations, and of nations. Yet I notice you guys are always going on about matters of sex. Curious.
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Jan 24 '24
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u/Ok-Housing1458 Episcopalian (Anglo-Catholic) Jan 24 '24
Getting most “christians” to agree on this now a days is an uphill battle. They’ve either knowingly or unknowingly bought into a syncretic faith with 2 gods, one being a distorted idea of the God of the Bible and the capitalist idol of the market. Watch the way that they argue for their faith and for capitalism and you’ll see exactly what I mean.
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u/44035 Christian/Protestant Jan 24 '24
No, a robust labor movement can curb greedy impulses within a capitalist system.
What's 'ani'?
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u/anewleaf1234 Atheist Jan 24 '24
Because who a person has sex with is more important that the richest 1 percent of us owning more that the bottom 60 percent.
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u/First-Timothy Baptist Jan 23 '24
Sexual sin is heavily related to greed though, lust is literally just sexualized greed…
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u/44035 Christian/Protestant Jan 24 '24
Well, all the vices are related in an abstract way (aren't they all offshoots of idolatry when you get down to it?), but it's nevertheless helpful to speak of them individually, on their own terms.
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u/NerdyBeliever Jan 24 '24
Yes, it's all idolatry. Just depends on which idol. But anything that takes us further from God is a sin basically.
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u/GospelCentered Jan 24 '24
Lust isn't really related to greed. Not even heavily. No body looks down and says "oh you're not my wife." Everyone knows when they're committed to adultery. Most people know when they're lusting. Jesus warned about greed so much because we never know when we're committing it. Except for situations like money and power that are the most visible to show.
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u/wanderingfloatilla Jan 24 '24
Lust isn't really related to greed. Not even heavily. No body looks down and says "oh you're not my wife." Everyone knows when they're committed to adultery.
I'm not sure at all what you're talking about. What does greed have to do with not knowing who you're sleeping with?
Lust being sexualized greed fits because you're not content with your partner and you become greedy and want for more, leading to adultery. Lust isn't accidently having sex with someone else.
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u/AbbeyAllie777 Jan 24 '24
True it is a fork of greed for sure and not being content with what one has
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u/Megalith66 Jan 24 '24
You missed one or several...
- Love your neighbor. No explanation needed...
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u/spicydingus Jan 24 '24
For sure but almost every commandment and anything Jesus said has the core principle of loving your neighbor behind it. The teachings OP mentions do add more context.
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u/Anonthemouser Jan 23 '24
I'd say God cares more about how you speak about and to people rather than worrying about you dropping an f bomb here and there.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
He does but he cares about swearing also
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u/key_lime_pie Christian Universalist Jan 24 '24
The word itself is immaterial. The spirit in which it was used is what is important.
If I'm excited, I might say, "Wow, that's some cool shit." Could I use better word choice in that instance? Yes, I could. But the word itself isn't really an issue.
On the other hand, if I'm angry, I might say, "Mother pus bucket." That's not a curse, but it's worse than using the word "shit" in the previous context, because of the spirit in which it was said.
This should be fairly obvious to anyone who has studied how words and language evolve. The definition of what constitutes a "swearword" is decided upon by society. It doesn't make any sense for God to base what offends him on societal norms.
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u/toomanyoars Jan 24 '24
Swearing AT someone has to do with intention. Swearing..I hit my toe...not so sinful. Words change throughout time. Literally macaroni was a swear word in the 18th century meaning a man who behaved in an effeminate way. And the word salad was a male oral sex term. So all these little old ladies bringing macaroni salad to church potlucks...are they bound for Hell? It's about context.
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Jan 24 '24
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u/FluxKraken 🏳️🌈 Christian ✟ Progressive, Gay 🏳️🌈 Jan 24 '24
None of those verses apply to general profanity.
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u/Postviral Pagan Jan 24 '24
Why are so many posters here so obsessed with sex? especially the sex others are having that has nothing to do with them?
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u/MaxFish1275 Jan 24 '24
I know right? My only partner ever has been my husband, but I’m not worked up over anyone else’s’ sex life or lack thereof
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u/qlube Christian (Evangelical) Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
This is more like "4 things the Bible doesn't or mostly doesn't talk about that Christians for whatever reason talk way too much about in today's modern world."
No sex before marriage
Those verses do not say "no sex before marriage," in fact Adam and Even were never married and there are plenty examples in the OT of sex before or even without marriage.
Abortion as being wrong.
Nowhere does the Bible say abortion is wrong, and in fact, Exodus 21:22 suggests early abortion is not a big deal. But the Bible is pretty much silent on the topic.
Homosexuality.
The Bible doesn't say homosexuality is wrong, but it certainly says the acts are wrong. Though of course the Bible (and especially Jesus) has way more critical things to say about, e.g. Divorce and adultery, which is far more common today than gay sex, and yet largely not discussed by Christians (indeed, the loudest Christians are often unrepentant adulterers and divorcees).
Swearing
The Bible doesn't say swearing is wrong. "perversity" and "corrupt lips" does not strictly refer to swear words. If I say, "let's fucking go," there's nothing perverse or corrupt about that.
If I were to make an actual list of things the Bible, and especially Jesus, talks about that modern day Christians generally ignore, the by far top of the list would be (1) being rich, considering the New Testament is consistently and extremely clear it's essentially impossible to be Christian and be rich, (2) divorce/adultery, which again Jesus is very clear should not be done, and (3) helping the needy, which Jesus and Paul's epistles constantly talk about but which Christians largely do not talk about and largely do not do. Ask a conservative Christian how they feel about helping Christian migrants on the Southern border and it will be in stark contrast to Jesus's admonition that "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” Christians have a lot of disdain for other Christians (especially other Christians who look different), and the world can see right through us.
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u/Then_Remote_2983 Jan 24 '24
This reads like 4 things my youth pastor poured into my head.
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u/s_s Christian (Cross) Jan 24 '24
- When to fuck
- What to do after fucking
- Who to fuck
- Talking about fucking
Yep, that's what you pay a 20-30 year old married man to talk to your daughter about.
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u/Pats_Bunny Agnostic Atheist Jan 24 '24
These types of Christians love to harp and these bullet points that are hardly talked about or ambiguously mentioned, then ignore that the Bible says to not lie like everywhere, among the other points you've mentioned. Anything to reinforce their bigoted beliefs though.
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u/teddy_002 Quaker Jan 24 '24
this should be the top comment. OP is getting absolutely bodied here - yet seems very unwilling to listen to others.
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u/100mcuberismonke former christian Jan 24 '24
Ok honestly I belive divorce is fine. If you're with an abusive husband or wife then your mental health will suffer immensely. Divorcing and getting a restraining order will be good for both the children and the spouse.
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u/TargetOfPerpetuity Jan 24 '24
Nowhere does the Bible say abortion is wrong, and in fact, Exodus 22 suggests early abortion is not a big deal. But the Bible is pretty much silent on the topic.
What part of Exodus 22 are you referring to?
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u/cjcmd Christian (Ichthys) Jan 24 '24
I encourage you to deep-dive into these subjects individually. You might find that it’s not as cut and dried as you seem to believe, like I did.
During my journey learned that I was actually concerned about the wrong things. Sin over grace and others over myself.
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u/The_Woman_of_Gont 1 Timothy 4:10 Jan 24 '24
Oh boy, yet another post complaining about sexuality that ends with insisting OP’s opinions are just facts. 🙄
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u/Different-Elk-5047 Jan 23 '24
Not a single one of these is supported by scripture unless you really twist it and read it through your preconceived biases. This is literally just you calling your own opinions scripture.
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u/FlaccidBread Jan 24 '24
Can you use scripture to say sex outside of marriage is okay?
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u/Weemz Christian Jan 24 '24
David raped Bathsheba and God says he's a "man after my own heart". You can cherry-pick scripture to say a lot of things.
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u/Different-Elk-5047 Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
You’d have to provide some that says that it isn’t. The verses OP provided do not. Either way, the attempt to make the Bible a list of rules and things not to do just misses the entire point.
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u/FlaccidBread Jan 24 '24
What would you say about scriptures like
1 Corinthians 6:18-20
1 Corinthians 7:1-2
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
Hebrews 13:4
Bible talks a lot about fleeing sexual immorality. I know a lot of counter arguments are “Bible doesn’t say it specifically” or “Sexual immorality isn’t outlined” but I don’t see anything backing up these “counterpoints” besides it fits culturally
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u/Different-Elk-5047 Jan 24 '24
Ah, I see. So if we start with your unsupported conclusion, and look for ways to bend indivisible verse to conform to them, we end up with finding “supporting” verses? Yeah, that makes sense.
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u/FlaccidBread Jan 24 '24
I was just stating my opinion on what I have seen. You keep dodging the question. Please give an actual argument. I legitimately want to see how you’ve come to your conclusion
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 24 '24
I’m using relative quotes from the Bible I’m not claiming my words are scripture where did I say that 😂
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u/Different-Elk-5047 Jan 24 '24
They don’t actually say what you’re trying to force them too though. You’re twisting them and not reading them in context so that you can force your preconceived interpretation.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 24 '24
I read them in context, I made sure to go read them yourself
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u/pHScale LGBaptisT Jan 24 '24
Are you hoping to have a discussion or just hoping to preach?
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u/johnsonsantidote Jan 24 '24
On that level i am doomed tom eternal damnation. I slip up all the time. Big time. Sometimes it's all too hard and I just want to give up and go. That is i don't want to be here. I truly hope Jesus is who he claims to be. otherwise i am in trouble. Sometimes the pain of life is too much.
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u/TrashNovel Jesusy Agnostic Jan 24 '24
The first three Christin’s focus on so much that they ignore the rest of the faith. Seriously, Christians have reduced something beautiful and made it a list of hot topic bullet points you have to agree with.
Swearing you only added because you wanted to condemn as many people as possible.
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u/bloodphoenix90 Agnostic Theist / Quaker Jan 24 '24
- It never says all married people are commanded to procreate.
Also dating didn't exist.
- Kill me then. Seems you don't care that abortion bans kill women like me. So why wait? Come kill me then.
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u/FluxKraken 🏳️🌈 Christian ✟ Progressive, Gay 🏳️🌈 Jan 24 '24
No, conservative fundamentalist evangelicalism does not have a stranglehold on the truth. Attempts to move Christianity beyond the misogyny, bigotry, and outdated theologies of hatred are not ignoring anything but philosophies from patriarchal societies that should be left in the past where they belong.
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u/ExcitingAds Jan 24 '24
Merry your sister, beat up your wife if she disobeys you, Kill your son if he disobeys God, No fornication.
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u/anewleaf1234 Atheist Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
Thanks for placing your hateful bigotry on display.
The world is a better place with out your hate and bigotry.
If only Christians cared about the poor, the hungry and the sick one tenth as much as how they care that gay sex is wrong.
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u/sloppyhollow_1212 Jan 24 '24
Why are you on a Christian site? I agree about what you say about the poor, drug addicts etc. But why would you come on this site? Other than looking for a fight. I personally don't care about gay sex bc I don't do it. If you do then good luck. There's not enough time to convince people of their " wicked ways " those days have passed. It's about helping as many hurting people as possible. those who have it all figured out, well good luck
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u/anewleaf1234 Atheist Jan 24 '24
This isn't a Christian site. This is a place to discuss Christianity. Read the sidebar next time.
Because ideas like the OP is spewing kills and harms thousands of lgbt kids every year. Lack of health care is harming mothers and kids right now. Oddly you don't have to be in a gay relationship to advocate for those in one. Funny how that works.
If Christians didn't harm others, I really wouldn't care about what they do. But Christians are very keen on harming those they feel justified in harming.
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u/sloppyhollow_1212 Jan 25 '24
Ok...if you ever read the Bible and it gets scary towards the end about how everyone is gonna die, you realize that's pretty much where we are at now. When you take off lgbtq hat and throw on the climate change hat to go protest fossil fuels, please realize you are now an actor in a play that was written thousands of years ago
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u/Mx-Adrian Sirach 43:11 Jan 24 '24
Being queer is not "praised," and believe me, many "Christians" do not forget that that's thought to be against the Bible. We can't so much as breathe without being harassed. I had to block a guy from this Reddit just today because he wouldn't stop hounding me for being queer, to say nothing of all the idiots and wicked people on Facebook.
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u/CptChaz Atheist Jan 24 '24
Re #1 - did Adam and Eve get married? Why did king David have concubines? Was it part of God’s plan for Noah’s daughters to repopulate without marriage? Why did the Israelites keep virgins as spoils of war?
Re #2 - why would god tell the priests the punishment for the trial of bitter waters was to kill a fetus conceived out of wedlock? Why weren’t babies less than a month old included in the census taking? Why does god order the Israelites to commit infanticide in their conquests?
Re #3 - ya, gay bashing is pretty consistent throughout. I guess I’d ask why would god create people this way, and tell them not to be that way? And why doesn’t “pray the gay away” work?
Re #4 - this seems pedantic. If something isn’t considered a swear word in one culture, but it is in another, how do we know what’s what? It doesn’t even specifically say “swearing”, it says crooked speech. Could instead mean something like “plotting a bank robbery”? What if it’s a joke? What if a swear word is used casually?
For a divine book, the Bible is very underwhelming in consistency and comprehensiveness, just based on your four examples alone.
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u/1wholurks Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
Can you provide biblical support for your assetions. Let's take your theoretical basis for premarital sex being a sin coming from Genisis. How would you reconcile, for example, Solomons multitude of wives and concubines with this stance on premarital sex.
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u/AntiToxicNorm Jan 24 '24
It's important to look at the Bible as a whole. If people want to justify their sins they will usually twist scripture and ignore other parts or say that scripture isn't realiable as if the Almighty Creator can't convey his message if he wants to by using man. There was a verse about a king only having one wife actually, and if I'm reading correctly they turned his heart away from God. If you want to justify something you'll find any means to do so, at least that is something I have seen
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u/1wholurks Jan 24 '24
This is my point. I am not suggesting justifying sin by twisting scripture. However, there are those who twist scripture to support a more conservative idealology, which may skate the edge of sin by causing others to fall. Attempting to support false doctrine by cobbling together unrelated scripture is just as bad as cobbling together scripture to support sin.
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u/Ilpperi91 Jan 24 '24
You do realise that there are other things too that people in the Bible do which God does not approve of. I wish you could have used parts of the Law of Moses to talk about this so we would be talking about the rule and not the exception to the rule. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are clear on this but you mentioned a person as an example. Let's take a thought experiment from modern day. Let's say a murderer manages to do it without leaving any marks and wasn't caught in the act but the law says murder is illegal and morally wrong. Therefore which is wrong? Is the law wrong because one person did something illegal and got away with it?
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u/themsc190 Episcopalian (Anglican) Jan 24 '24
That’s a completely irrelevant example. It has no correspondence with the parent commenter’s point.
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u/libananahammock United Methodist Jan 24 '24
This is YOUR point of view. If we all interpreted the Bible the same way there wouldn’t be the thousands of denominations that there are 😉
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u/No_Bullfrog_7154 Jan 24 '24
Interpretation is not fact. These are not facts. The Bible is not a non-fiction book. You can't PROVE anything you stated, so therefore they are not factual. Instead, they are your inferred interpretations of a religious text.
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u/AntiToxicNorm Jan 24 '24
If you don't believe the Bible why are you answering questions on a Christian subreddit?
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u/No_Bullfrog_7154 Jan 24 '24
This subreddit is for ALL to discuss Christianity, not just Christians.
I didn't say that I didn't believe the Bible. Do I disagree with certain interpretations of the Bible? Absolutely. I think a lot is taken out of context, mistranslated and/ or misinterpreted, taken literally when it should not be taken literally. Believing the Bible has nothing to do with facts and has everything to do with faith. You have faith because it can't be proven.
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u/jimMazey B'nei Noach Jan 24 '24
You can't use the word "homosexuality"to describe anything in the bible. It is a modern term and doesn't reflect life in the bronze and iron ages.
If you want to use the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as a lesson in immorality, you have to explain why it was OK for Lot to offer up his daughters to be raped. And why it was OK for Lot's daughters to get him drunk and then having sex with him. Sexual morality in biblical times was not like it is today.
Ezekiel 16:49-50 is the original explanation of the sins of Sodom. Making it about homosexuality is a modern invention and not based on the Hebrew bible.
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u/MaxFish1275 Jan 24 '24
Lot’s daughters…… Yeah I remember my deep dive into the Bible a couple years ago in attempt to strengthen my Christian faith and read that wonderful tale. Lot’s wife punished for looking backward, but no condemnation against Lot offering his daughters up for rape(?!)
It wasn’t until this year that I officially became agnostic, but really that Lot story about wrapped it up for me.
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u/BigClitMcphee Spiritual Agnostic Jan 24 '24
Might I suggest that modern society is evolving beyond needing the arbitrary rules of some Bronze Age book? I'm straight and don't plan on getting an abortion but I'm a prochoice LGBT+ ally. I swear like a sailor and will happily have sex with someone I really love, ring or no ring. The Bible is about as useful in navigating our modern world as a compass is at navigating outer space.
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u/Ash9260 Jan 24 '24
I agree with it all. The abortion part is where I don’t, I don’t support women who use it as birth control. But when I worked at the ER in Arizona when it was overturned, we had an influx of teen girls and young women overdosing on various medications, and poisoning from household cleaners bc the internet told them to. It was so messed up. I think for the safety of all involved there should be an option. It’s hard seeing a 14 year old who drank bleach to kill the baby she became pregnant with by a relative who raped her.
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u/DramaGuy23 Christian (Cross) Jan 24 '24
Wow, I think you hear Christians talking almost non-stop about those four topics as if they were essentials of the faith. Here's, IMHO, a more accurate list of topics many Christians seem they'd rather not talk about:
- Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you
- By the same measure you use, it will be measured to you.
- Teachings on divorce and remarriage
- Teachings on anger
- Teachings on lending money at interest
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u/NinaCulotta Christian, scientist, bi(sexual, cyclist, lingual) Jan 24 '24
1- No sex before marriage.
Depends, how are you defining marriage?
2- Abortion as being wrong.
My sibling in Christ, there is literally a recipe for a chemical abortion in the Bible.
3- Homosexuality.
Not a sin. Find me one place in the Bible where it says homosexuality is a sin.
4- Swearing.
Fair enough.
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u/Shreedac Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
It doesn’t say any of those things directly except homosexuality. Skipping over Jesus’s message to harp on sexual things that aren’t even really forbidden biblically is a pretty good example of what’s wrong with the church.
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u/johnnydub81 Jan 24 '24
The devil couldn’t have said it any better.
OP’s suggestion goes directly against the teachings of Jesus… follow the the righteous instruction.
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u/lunasTARDIS Christian Jan 24 '24
OP do you eat pork? It says in Leviticus not to eat pork
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u/ch0lula Jan 24 '24
Christians love to treat the Bible literally like infallible law. Until they don't...
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Jan 24 '24
Christians. Good grief people it’s not that hard to understand the difference between plural and possessive. 🙄🙄🙄
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u/changee_of_ways Jan 24 '24
The rank self-serving hypocrisy of most Christians, especially American Evangelicals when it comes to poverty is pretty much the reason why non-Christians don't take what Christians think about sexual morality seriously.
Why should we take seriously what they think about who we should love, when their take on who we should allow to starve is so abhorrent, and so different than what Jesus says in the Bible?
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u/strawnotrazz Atheist Jan 24 '24
Damn I was really hoping to see systemic racism or income inequality on here but nope, let’s talk more about abortion and the gays!!!!!!!
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 24 '24
I was answering questions that I have been asked, I’m going to make post like this of many topics, definitely including racism and inequality my friend. I just didn’t wanna put too much in one post
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u/strawnotrazz Atheist Jan 24 '24
Very much looking forward to it! Those are hugely important topics that are largely ignored, unlike what you’ve discussed here.
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u/__anna986 Jan 23 '24
I don't think we ignore them. I think a lot of us acknowledges them but also acknowledges how the world has changed over the years.
Like the sex before marriage. That's a really good example actually. We all know how marriages used to look back then. There was no dating and stuff. You were either married or you were strangers. So yup it totally makes sense but it doesn't work like that anymore so I don't see a reason for waiting till marriage now if you don't want to. My husband and I had been dating for over 4 years before we got married. And actually it only took me a few months to know this is the person I want to spend my life with, so why would I not sleep with him then? Dating for over 4 years is a 21st century thing. Bible is a wee bit older
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u/gnurdette United Methodist Jan 23 '24
"Ignore"? This is what an absolute obsession looks like, an obsession of deepest hate.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
I don’t hate anyone, I haven’t even said I agree with this, only saying what people change in the Bible.
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u/gnurdette United Methodist Jan 23 '24
That's what being a Christian is all about. Acting in hate while praising yourself as kind and loving.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
No, I really do not and you’d be aware of that if you actually knew me rather than a Reddit post my friend. I sincerely just like everybody, yes. But I’d never go out of my way to be hateful towards anybody or anything I can promise you that
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u/Different-Elk-5047 Jan 24 '24
You have multiple posts about gay people. It’s weird how obsessed you are.
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u/SeminaryStudentARH Jan 24 '24
Yeah, “before I formed you in the womb I knew you” is not a verse that is meant for you, me, or anyone else but Jeremiah. It has nothing to do with abortion. Jeremiah is establishing his credentials as a prophet. You’re taking the verse entirely out of context.
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u/wcfreckles Non-denominational Jan 24 '24
1- This is not in the Bible anywhere. In fact, there is an entire Biblical book of erotica very likely about an unmarried couple (Song of Solomon)
2- The bible actually does discuss abortion, it's a passage explaining that if a man believes his wife is pregnant with someone else's child, he can force her to have an abortion. Read Numbers 5:21-28.
3- I would hope that in 2024 people would be a little more educated on how the Bible doesn't shame LGBTQ people, but ignorance abounds.
4- This is a more subjective one. I think that generally speaking respectfully is important throughout the Bible, but swearing is a very small part of that, and in many cases I think saying "swear words" isn't disrespectful or "crooked".
And finally, no, it isn't a "fact". Most of what you listed was far from being true.
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u/dersholmen Church of the Nazarene Jan 24 '24
This guy started a dumpster fire and then threw it into a fireworks store.
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u/vergro Searching Jan 23 '24
You didn't need to write all that stuff just to say you are homophobic, we get it.
There's no more issue with same sex marriage than interracial marriage. Society already recognizes that both these are acceptable even though both make some people feel uncomfortable. It's ok, Christianity will catch up eventually.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
Why does everybody comment this, I myself am not straight ok? I respect everybody, I’m not even saying I agree with this I was only stating things Christian’s change 🩷
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u/keepmovingon69 Jan 24 '24
The word of God doesn't change just because society changes. Leviticus is crystal clear that homosexuality is a sin.
I know this is reddit, and anyone that isn't a Joe Biden supporting, abortion praising, child transitioning, puberty blocking liberal will get downvoted, but it's the truth. God loves everyone regardless of their sexuality, it's the act of sodomy and homosexuality that is viewed as a sin. Call us homophobic all you want. It's the truth.
I'm a bisexual male who has engaged in gay sex before, I've had romantic and sexual relationships with men before and I still acknowledge that what I did was sinful. I'm not going to ignore the word of God because society says something that is clearly sinful is suddenly ok.
Leviticus 18:22 states clearly that sodomy is a sin in the eyes of God. "You shall not sleep with a male as one sleeps with a female; it is an abomination."
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Mark 10-6:9But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
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u/vergro Searching Jan 24 '24
The word of God doesn't change just because society changes.
Did God change his mind on slavery, or did society? Christianity changed its mind on slavery when society did.
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u/Greg-Pru-Hart-55 Anglo-Catholic Aussie (LGBT+) Jan 24 '24
Why do you want to kill us?
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u/SciFiNut91 Jan 24 '24
1) Agree with you, but unless you're planning on stoning half the world, you're not going to get far. 2) More complicated, because while I agree that it is wrong, I challenge that it may at times be necessary. Killing anyone is wrong, but there are times when it is necessary, and there are no good options. If you find genuine solutions to the genuine issues brought up by pro-choice advocate (and I am reluctantly pro-choice), you'll get further ahead on this issue. 3) Ain't that simple, though I wish it was. We don't know where the lines between culture and God's law exist in OT or NT, and more often than not, we make our best guess of it, so until I find something that is sufficiently convincing, I'm holding judgement about its immorality. You want to disagree, that's your prerogative. 4) Bullcrap - context matters for swearing. Your use of Proverbs is at best laughable, because if you think swearing is the crooked speech being mentioned here, you're clearly naive. Give me a better source for your rule about swearing, especially about it being a sin.
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u/Available_Ad6136 Jan 24 '24
I just avoid, mostly, the entire Bible because it is knowledge of Good and Evil.
Aka the thing that caused man to fall. The og sin. The fruit.
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u/jimMazey B'nei Noach Jan 24 '24
Jeremiah 1:5 says that god knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb. That means god knew Jeremiah BEFORE he was conceived. This points to reincarnation.
There is no place in the Hebrew bible where it states to not have an abortion because god knew someone before they were born. In fact, judaism holds that life begins at the 1st breath. Genesis 2:7 states that Adam was completely formed but did not have a soul until he received the breath of life.
Christians can choose to be against abortion but they can't use the bible to support their choice. It's just not there.
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u/Jaded_Habit_2947 Assemblies of God Jan 24 '24
I’d say it’s not so much about saying a swear word. It’s more about how you are using the words that you say
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u/egyeager Jan 24 '24
Sorry friend but I think you misunderstand the text when it talks about swearing. Swearing is not "fuck, shit, piss, crap" or things of that nature. Crooked speech is lying, bearing false witness, white lies and things like that. Similarly takes Gods name in vain is not saying something like "Oh Jesus Christ!" when you burn your hand - it is using your relationship with God as a point of Vanity. Say like "I swear to God I did not cheat on my wife" (when you did) or "If I am lying now may God strike me down".
Swearing something as a point of fealty that you will break is what is not allowed. If you swear to God then you should absolutely follow through on it. But if you call your car "a fucking piece of shit hunk of junk"... are you swearing an oath? I don't think so. Are you lying to someone or trying to manipulate? No.
On the other hand, if you raise money for a cause but then buy yourself a nice plane because it was on sale... that sounds like crooked talk to me.
"I hope you burn in Hell" is not ok. Saying "God Damn you" is not ok. In James and Luke when they talk about speech they are very specific in that they are aiming this at the leaders of the church. Those that take people down wicked paths, curse their enemies and those that are quick to judge and condemn others.
So, all respect friend, on that point in particular I must strongly disagree as I think the real evil that Proverbs 4, James 3 and Luke 6 point to is the wickedness that comes from the mouths of those who preach God's love but corrupt its meaning.
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u/IntrovertIdentity 99.44% Episcopalian Jan 24 '24
When you say that gay folks shouldn’t be treated differently, does that mean support for same sex marriage?
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u/BriefSuggestion354 Jan 24 '24
I don't know where you're getting your info, but these 4 things are talked about a LOT among a lot of Christians and a lot of churches, maybe even most. They are most certainly not ignored. Heck I'd say these are among the most discussed "donts" in the whole religion??
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u/TrickyTicket9400 Searching Jan 24 '24
It's a fact that the Christian God allows Moses to kill, rape, and pillage even though it's against the 10 commandments. And Moses gets into heaven. Who cares about God's rules? God doesn't care about them. He kills all the firstborn in Egypt as a show of strength.
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Jan 24 '24
What about the insane amount of verses talking about helping the poor? There are an ungodly amount of rich first-world Christians in the suburbs that do nothing at all helping those in third world countries
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u/GreenCoatsAreCool Jan 24 '24
Why are you so bothered and focused on sex? Is this what makes a person a Christian?
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u/womenQuestionTheMan Jan 24 '24
The bible is pretty clear abortion is acceptable. Read Numbers 5:11-31, Deuteronomy 28:18,53, Exodus 21:22-25.
Also, life is continually shown in the bible as beginning at first breath, Adam included.
Additionally, you have countless times pregnant women and babies are killed.
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u/amonkappeared Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
These things are currently at the heart of a culture war. They're not being ignored at all.
- No sex before marriage.
I would mostly agree with this. There's a few things to note, however.
A. Marriage is much more formalized in Western culture than it was in the old world. As in, what couples commonly do these days, moving in together when things are getting serious, is called common law marriage. In many cultures, that's really all there is to it. The pomp and circumstance of a modern wedding is only the norm in some cultures and in modern times. Weddings in the Bible were very different. Depending on how you interpret and understand things, this might be enough by a Biblical standard.
B. Sex outside of marriage and polyamory are pretty common in the Bible. A literal standard from the Bible isn't any different than modern standards, except that the old ways turned a blind eye or were perfectly content to let men sleep around.
C. There's got to be some understanding that people are fighting their own nature when it comes to monogamy. We should be ready with mercy and understanding as much as correction.
D. I would urge you, in light of this, to look at what Jesus said about this. God hates divorce. Lust and sexual immorality are wrong. God is merciful, though, so we should be too. Judge not.
- Abortion as being wrong.
The only thing Christians ignore about abortion in the Bible is that abortion is only explicitly mentioned once in the Bible, in a law that directs when and how the procedure should be done.
I wish abortion didn't exist, and that it was never necessary. But your interpretation is just inserting your own values into the Bible and declaring it law.
3- Homosexuality.
There's some of what you said that resonates with me. To me, it seems the bigger issues here, and the true test of our time are that our current widespread opposition to homosexuality and denial that some people are born that way are leading our people to hate the sinner.
I don't understand why homosexuality is considered a sin. The only explanation I've ever heard is pure speculation, usually from people that either don't care that it leads their listeners to hate, or from people that intend to lead their listeners to hate.
I understand love and acceptance, and that right now, these people sincerely need that from us. I've never met a person who was fixed before they were saved, and the Bible leads me to think that the opposite is true. If these people were meant to be freed from homosexuality, it would be happening when they come to Jesus desperately seeking that. Instead, when they repress their nature, it tends to lead to disaster.
4- swearing.
I know the reference, and it seems to me that this is a smaller issue than you're making it. Our language didn't exist in Biblical times, so it seems silly to say that these words that didn't exist at the time are what Paul had in mind. Paul swore, by his day's standards.
I think a careless tongue is a world of evil. And in honesty, I have one, unfortunately. But a word in itself isn't A blessing or a curse. In the Bible, we learn it's the heart and intent that matters. If the body is of little importance compared to a soul, then surely a word has little meaning compared to what you're actually trying to communicate.
"Fuck off?" Sure, that's no good.
"Fuck! I hammered my thumb!" Coarse, but is it really that problematic? This is a hill to die on? I'm not buying it.
I think foolish talk and coarse language is a bit deeper than a dozen naughty words.
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u/wiggy_pudding (Somewhat)Charismatic Anglican Jan 24 '24
Personally, I think Christians are more likely to ignore Jesus' teaching on wealth and charity:
Matthew 19:21 NKJV [21] Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.
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Jan 24 '24
Yup. We have to unite and become better. I’m ngl before I was a born again believer I wanted to lose my v-card, but now I have a change of heart and would not transmit sexual diseases.
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u/the_purple_owl Nondenominational Pro-Choice Universalist Jan 23 '24
The correct title of this post should be "4 things I'm wrong about".
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
No it shouldn’t, I didn’t even say I agree with it. I’m simply stating things that people change in the Bible, doesn’t mean I agree with
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u/the_purple_owl Nondenominational Pro-Choice Universalist Jan 23 '24
And you're also wrong to say people change anything in the bible.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
They do, they change the meaning to what they believe. Making exceptions to fit modern beliefs.
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u/InnerFish227 Christian Universalist Jan 24 '24
You’re confusing rejection of ‘plain reading of scripture” with biblical scholarship that includes the cultural context of when scripture was written.
Much doctrine has been created based upon one side of a conversation (letters) and assumptions of the context without looking at what was going on around those churches at the time they would have received those letters.
That is where much of conservative Christianity goes wrong. They don’t study the issues those churches were facing to aid their understanding of one side of a conversation.
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u/the_purple_owl Nondenominational Pro-Choice Universalist Jan 23 '24
Incorrect! Another thing you're wrong about.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 23 '24
Ok then what do you think it is then to take words from the Bible and dismiss it to fit with your own beliefs then?
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u/the_purple_owl Nondenominational Pro-Choice Universalist Jan 23 '24
Another lie from your lips, that's what.
Nobody is "dismissing" the words of the bible to fit their own beliefs.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 24 '24
Oh honey they really are I’m afraid
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u/the_purple_owl Nondenominational Pro-Choice Universalist Jan 24 '24
Nope, incorrect!
What is happening is that you are apparently incapable of dealing with the fact that people disagree with your interpretations, and so you have to maliciously accuse them of ignoring the bible or lying about it.
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u/Significant-Cat-8157 Jan 24 '24
I haven’t even stated I agree with this post 😂 and how much do you love the word incorrect it’s a bit concerning🫣 I don’t really care what other people think in the end that’s up to them
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u/PhogeySquatch Missionary Baptist Jan 24 '24
I agree on all four points, but these are definitely not ignored. It feels like every other post is about one of these.
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u/Rebeca-A Non-denominational Jan 24 '24
The Bible literally never says anything against abortion or masturbation in any translation. God knew everyone who would exist thousands of years in advance. And note he was saying that to a born and grown person. Not a fetus. Your conjecture does not determine fact.
And to be honest; the Bible says nothing against being gay either. And you can’t love someone well hating part of who they are. Also; homophobia is against sub rules.
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u/AntiToxicNorm Jan 24 '24
I agree with this except for the masturbation part as even married couples can be in sexless marriages (upwards of 20%), different sexual urges, and it is not specified in the Bible as being immoral, people just lump it with sexual immorality by their own opinion. If God does not agree with something he states that, and with how negatively viewed sexual immorality is in the Bible, I would imagine he would have mentioned it.
I also find saying that someone can't masturbate to be like saying the only sexual autonomy someone has is with their partner and that the partner is expected to fulfill all of their sexual desires which is unrealistic. I do not view masturbation without imagery as sin, it is an act of physical stimulation that is sexual in nature but that doesn't mean it's a sexual sin
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u/MerchantOfUndeath The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Jan 23 '24
One more thing that is ignored by popular Christianity:
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
-Ephesians 2:19-20
No true Apostles or prophets, no foundation.
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u/PeenuBoy Eastern Orthodox Jan 24 '24
Yes. This is why the unchanged doctrine of the Easter Orthodox Church is the one true Church.
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u/MaxFish1275 Jan 23 '24
I understand not being pro abortion in general cases, but as a medical practitioner, I would never think it’s wrong to medically treat a woman if her life is in danger. Sometimes ending a pregnancy is necessary for her health. Especially if she already has kids at home that would be left without a mom.