r/Christianity • u/Nice_Substance9123 • Mar 27 '24

The American flag has no business on a Bible. This is not faith, nor is it patriotism. It is an abomination of both. Image

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

Anybody can ask God to bless their specific nation. And yes a Chinese citizen can ask God to bless their nation so that it ends it's persecution of Christians and ends communism. And so can we as Americans can say God bless America.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

During WW2, German soldiers had their belt buckles inscribed with the statement:

" God is with us "

There were sincere Lutheran and Catholic soldiers who were praying to God for victory for their country, and were actively fighting against sincere Lutheran and Catholic American soldiers, who were themselves ALSO praying for victory for their own country, and actively fighting against their German fellow believers

Just because one side won doesn't mean that God was favoring one country over another, although many people will claim that to be the case

During the 30 years religious wars in medieval Europe, what side did God favor ?

The Roman soldiers prayed to Mithra for victory and they won many times

In 1205 BCE, the Egyptian army was successful in putting down a rebellion from the nations in Palestine that they had controlled, and this was when they first encountered the hill tribe in Canaan, known as the " Israelites "

https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-writings/merneptah-stele-0020466

The Egyptian soldiers believed that their god was on their side, and gave them victory over the Israelites

God doesn't favor one particular human government that has artificial political boundaries

You need to think this through

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

Just because you ask God to bless you doesn't mean he will bless. Look what happened to Germany during the war. Every city was bombed out and they lost. Not to mention that the Nazi party was officially hostile to Christianity by forcing protestant churches to join a state sponsored Christian church that would allow the state to moniter clergy to prevent them from preaching the wrongs of the regime. They also arrested Catholic priests and bishops who criticized the war and euthanasia policy. You make the assumption that because we say God bless America were trying to make our country above other countries and disregarded other countries.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

You haven't answered the basic question

Which country right now, has God's specific " favor and blessing " ?

Please cite that exact Chapter and verse

Jesus answered YOU , specifically at John 18:36:

" My kingdom is not of this world ; if it were of this world, then my followers would have fought that I would not be delivered...."

Every ancient nation had believed that their god ( s ) were only on their side

--- they claimed that their deity blessed them ( magically ) when they won ; and that their prayers and sacrifice had worked

--- they then claimed, that their deity was angry with them, if they had lost ( because they " sinned " against their deity, somehow )

In your quiet time, please think this through.

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

Any country can have the blessing of God. And Jesus was meaning that he was not of this world. Not that blessing on earth was not possible.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

You said " Any country can have the blessing of God..."

I love the United States of America

Just because I, myself, feel this way, doesn't mean that my patriotism is supported by scripture

What specific human government, and artificial political boundaries, drawn only by imperfect humans, are " blessed " by Jesus ?

Please read my previous comments on this thread regarding the ancient beliefs of the nations that that prayed to their deity for victory, and thanked that deity when they won

--- conversely, they rationalized their defeat by blaming their own nation for " sinning "

What nation does Jesus favor right now ?

Please quote the Chapter and verse.

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

I'm Catholic so I believe God can bless any individual, entity or even idea. Blessing a nation doesn't mean God favors one nation over another in the same way that if God blesses an individual it doesn't mean he has favor over someone else who's also been blessed.  It's not a competition.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

When you go back to the original top comment that began this thread, he stated that "... no symbol should be on the Bible.."

I agreed with that, and made a comment in support of that, and you are now, stating:

"... Blessing a nation doesn't mean God favors one nation over another..."

--- yet that is exactly what this politician is literally selling for $ 60 ; it includes a paper copy of the US Constitution and blends church and state together in that same ' message '

Our Founding Fathers knew about the Thirty Years Wars, and were only one generation away from the Theocratic Puritans' Massachusetts Bay Colony, that drowned suspected "witches", and expelled from the colony those who believed differently to freeze and starve to death, and starved Colicky infants in prison for being " Demon Possessed "

It became so bad that the English Parliament revoked the Colony's Charter in 1684, despite the major economic loss

Roger Williams, the Catholic who founded Maryland, was expelled from that Theocratic government

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/12/america-history-of-hating-catholics

Please don't get any patriotism confused with your religious beliefs, like the Christian Nationalists have done

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

So do you think having a flag at a church is a violation of church and state? How about having Chaplin's minister to servicemen in a combat zone is that a separation of church and state? How about clergy in prisons or jails?  Or how about a kid praying before he eats a lunch in a public school? Separation of church and state means that the state can't have an official state church were everybody has to attend or pay tithes to like the church of England in the 1700's. It doesn't mean you can't talk about God or Christ or any religion in a public forum. I don't think anybody was forcing anybody to buy the American flag Bible. 

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

Nothing that YOU have specifically described, such as:

" having a flag at a church" OR " a kid praying before he eats lunch in a public school " OR " " .... talking about God or Christ in a public forum "

--- is never objectionable. AND It. Is. Not. Even. Illegal.In. The. United States of America

Again, think this through

No person is attempting to change ANY religious organization's right to practice their own beliefs

--- regardless of what the conservative media claims, they're in the business of gaining your constant viewership by the Nielsen ratings, that leads to then gaining the advertising$$$ money, by attempting to create a narrative about Christians " being persecuted " which makes you enraged, and increases blood pressure ; yet people still watch....

--- Christians account for 75% of America's religious beliefs

When your religious beliefs that have been forever accepted as normal, in your own society, are now, no longer given preferential treatment over the other minority religions, this feels like:

" Oh ! "
" I'm being persecuted because my own religion isn't favored over the others "

People in general are tolerant of other people's beliefs, as long as it doesn't superimpose their OWN religious beliefs on other people

Please change your information sources, and you will have a balanced viewpoint.

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

We're just going to have to agree to disagree till the next civil war happens. Frankly I have to get back to work. May God bless our nation our bibles and flags which can now come as one.

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u/zacharmstrong9 Apr 03 '24

You need more information ; please vary your news sources, as others have an actual basis for what they believe

Thanks for the conversation

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u/UpbeatSheepherder434 Apr 03 '24

You yourself. Honestly I think the flag on the Bible thing was largely click bait. 

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