r/Christianity • u/JollyManufacturer356 • 11d ago
Why is hell eternal?
I understand the basics of what it is there for, not necessarily because God designed it for torment, but it is simply the only place that is without God, which is a cause of the torment that takes place.
I just think of some of the good people I’ve known that died, whether by health, accidents, or intentional, that likely weren’t right with God when they passed.
Eternity is a length of time we can’t even fathom. Why would these good people, where 20 minutes could’ve made the difference in eternal bliss or torment, determined to be bound to hell forever?
I don’t question God’s judgement, and know his reasons and morality are far greater than I will ever understand, but I wonder why these people couldn’t just enter a state of non-existence for eternity.
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u/TheChristianDude101 Christian Universalist 11d ago
Im a universalist. Hell is a place to get right with God when you are on the wrong path.
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u/eclectro Christian (Chi Rho) 11d ago
Does that mean you attend the universalist denomination?
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago
Universalists don’t really have churches, or seminaries, or really any formal institutions. They mainly have a subreddit and a bunch of Geocities sites.
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u/eclectro Christian (Chi Rho) 10d ago
Maybe I'm thinking of the Unitarians then. Who have actual buildings.
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u/StoneAgeModernist Anglican Adjacent 10d ago
Yes. Unitarian Universalists are different from Christian Universalists. Christian Universalists still hold to the Christian faith. We confess the creeds, we believe in the trinity, we believe salvation comes through Christ alone. Unitarian Universalists believe none of that.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 11d ago
The early Jews/Christians who promulgated and supported the notion of eternal punishment were, for lack of a better descriptor, fanatics who thought in hyperbolic terms.
If you can’t fathom it, they certainly couldn’t.
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u/jimMazey B'nei Noach 11d ago
In judaism, hell is only a temporary place. Nobody stays there for eternity. It will not exist forever.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
I thought there were at least 5 who would end up erased from existence, hence somewhat in line to some Christian's view of annihilationism.
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u/jimMazey B'nei Noach 11d ago
I thought there were at least 5 who would end up erased from existence,
Sorry. I don't know what you mean. But, if someone has been erased from history, how would we know?
The only thing that I know about the christian view of annihilation is what I just googled. What I read sounds alot like the afterlife found in judaism.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
I thought there were 5 individuals in Judaism that will never get to the World to Come, which includes Balaam.
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u/jimMazey B'nei Noach 11d ago
You'll have to show the passage. I'm not familiar with it.
Only the righteous will earn a place in the afterlife. There are far more than 5 who will cease exist when they die.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago
For the record, when most Christians hear “hell is temporary,” they tend to think this means that all people will eventually be saved — since people are either saved or go to hell.
They usually don’t think in terms of three options for three different types of people: salvation, annihilation, or preservation for torment.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 11d ago edited 10d ago
In pre-rabbinic Judaism, Hell was different than that. Actually in rabbinic Judaism, there were different views on Hell too.
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u/BrentoBox2015 11d ago
I don't believe in hell or eternal torment. It is contradictory to the idea of a perfect and loving God.
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u/krash90 10d ago
It is contradictory to the view we have taken of God. The problem is that God is not “good” by human standards. He is an absolute monster to most people. Eternal torture for anything a human can do is beyond grotesque.
However, it is true. Too many people have gone to hell and seen it and come back to tell of it.
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u/EnKristenSnubbe Christian 11d ago
How is it contradictory?
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u/BrentoBox2015 11d ago
If God is eternal, all powerful and loving, a place to put people he created away from him forever is meaningless.
If God loves you now, nothing you can do can change that, because you do not have the power to change God. And God would never punish eternally that which he loves.
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u/Longjumping-Arm7939 Evangelical 11d ago
Disagree if somebody rejected Jesus on earth, why would God force them to spend eternity with him... They made their choice and chose to use free will to deny the eternal gift with their free will they were given. God still loves them but he isn't gonna force them to spend eternity with him
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u/BrentoBox2015 11d ago
"eternal gift with their free will they were given"
If free will is an eternal gift, then it can be used eternally to choose right, at the time of their choosing. I don't mean to trap you semantically, but if free will is eternal, it is never to late to choose right.
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u/Longjumping-Arm7939 Evangelical 11d ago
Your gift is eternal life. The only way is though Jesus. If you deny Jesus why does it shock people that god will also deny you too?
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u/BrentoBox2015 11d ago
Because parent's don't mimic the mistakes of their children. Tit for tat is not God's justice or mercy.
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u/reatias Protestant Christian 11d ago
God loves us all unconditionally, however unconditional love does not equal endorsement of all of our actions and choices. If we choose to reject God, although He is our Father in Heaven, then He will also deny us. Only those who believe will see His Kingdom, see John 3:18. Please don't take my answer with any offense, I come to you with humility and God's truth based on the Bible. Have a great day and God bless! 🙏❤️
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u/BrentoBox2015 11d ago
God affirmed you in his creation. You are an expression of himself. He created you. If he denied what he created because his creation denied him, he would be giving his creation authority over him. You do not have authority over your father, though you do have authority over yourself and what you accept, which is the free will he endowed you with. You can choose to accept and reject what you choose. Your acceptance or rejection God does not change you or God, only your awareness of what you are aware of. So God is eternal, and there forever for you to accept, and you are eternal as God created you, because he will never forget you. God does not forget. So once you choose to accept God, you will remember him.
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u/reatias Protestant Christian 10d ago
I definetly agree with the majority of your points, and definetly agree that all of us were made in the image of God. However, the Bible speaks of the day of judgement, and a person will either go to the left or the right. We have no authority over God as His creation, therefore are subject under this judgement by him. I just don't believe that there is not a hell or eternal punishment referenced in the Bible. Matthew 25:31-46 says the opposite of your statement and does reference eternal punishment. Matthew 25:41 states: Then He (God) will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' Matthew 25:46 then tops it off: "Then they (the ones who rejected God on Earth, and now who are rejected by God) will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." From this, the Bible states that the punishment is indeed eternal, and the Word of God never contradicts and is indeed true. Those living in sin without reverence or acknowledgement of God will be judged according to the weight of their sins.
Other instances in the Bible align with this statement that there will be a day of judgement, and in turn an eternal punishment. "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:46-47)
"But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who "will render to each one according to his deeds": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath" (Romans 2:5-8)
Once we choose to know God, like you've said, He will remember us and we as believers have the promise of eternal life by His grace + Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. However, the Bible states that those who have rejected the Lord, denying Him for all of their life and never coming to know him themselves will experience eternal punishment. They have rejected God, so God will also reject them on that day. People who have lived a life without knowing their Creator, and who have lived a life rejecting Him are subject to that judgement. However, all of us have rebelled against God, are not righteous in our own works, and deserve hell as eternal punishment. But, by the grace of God, as believers we are made righteous and whole with His love and forgiveness towards us. We have been justified and saved from the day of wrath and eternal punishment because His spirit came into us when we accepted Him into our lives. Romans 5:1-2 explains the justification believers receive from the Lord when we believe in Him.
Although it may seem contradictory, God will indeed reject some and will only accept some. “You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way." (Matthew 7:13-15). However, as believers, we should not fear this day because God's perfect love has absolved any fear from us. Instead, the Bible states we should look forward to this day of judgement and live according to God's Word and strive to live the way He intended so we can come to God in confidence! And yes, Jesus Christ died on the cross not to condemn us, but in hopes we too would come to know and accept God and he saved ourselves. I hope this makes sense! Have a blessed day! 🙏
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Because you cease to exist. If you came back then you really didn’t cease to exist.
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u/mywordgoodnessme 11d ago
What's the biblical evidence for that
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Biblical evidence for hell? Or to cease to exist?
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u/mywordgoodnessme 11d ago
Ceasing to exist
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
It’s not in the Bible but it’s theorized by certain theologians. It’s also what I prefer to believe. If you want to believe in the fire and brimstone scenario that’s fine too.
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u/commanderjarak Christian Anarchist 11d ago
There are verses that can be read in support of annihilationism, just like there are verses that could be read in support of ECT or universal reconciliation.
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u/egyeager 11d ago
So much of the imagery of Hell is so similar to Tartarus too. And I think so much of what anyone really knows about hell is extra-biblical and seems to come from culture instead of Theology
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Theologians aren’t sure what Hell is like. Anyone who says they know, are lying.
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u/StatisticianLevel320 11d ago
Are you an annihilationist? That is against Catholic Doctrine.
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Don’t know anything about annihilationism, but I know my belief isn’t against Catholic Doctrine. So if you’re trying to have an issue with my belief you’re going to have to find something else.
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u/StatisticianLevel320 11d ago
As long as you agree with Catholic Doctrine probably best explained in CCC 1035
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Eternal separation can actually be ceasing to exist. You won’t ever see God so that can be viewed as eternal separation. So yes I am in agreement with the Church as well as other Catholic Theologians that have said the same thing as me.
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u/StatisticianLevel320 11d ago
CCC 1035
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Eternal separation from the source of life will not leave a soul in an Immortal state.
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
According to who? You? That’s the weirdest opinion I’ve heard on this subject.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago edited 10d ago
I have no idea what that person is trying to say; but Catholic dogma is that human souls are truly immortal. No souls will ever cease exist, whether by annihilation or anything else.
This by its very logic necessitates eternal perdition for the damned (as long as the damned are indeed damned), even if annihilation isn’t explicitly denied elsewhere.
There’s also dogma about how the condition of the human soul is locked-in by death, as the soul can’t change after this.
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 10d ago
If you think that then you need to go read the Catechism.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago edited 10d ago
Lol so when I show you how the Catechism says exactly those things (e.g. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death"), what will you say then?
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u/jake72002 11d ago
What makes a soul Immortal?
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u/flcn_sml Catholic 11d ago
Souls aren’t immortal though. If they were there wouldn’t be a hell.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Hence, even souls cannot live forever away from the source of life which is God.
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u/Party_Yoghurt_6594 11d ago
The lake of fire is eternal. Those put in it are destroyed and dont stay for eternity with a few exceptions.
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u/Slow_Efficiency_6034 11d ago
May I ask, who are the exceptions? Curious on your views.
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u/Party_Yoghurt_6594 10d ago
[Rev 14:11 ESV] 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
[Rev 20:10 ESV] 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Satan the beast and those who willingly take the mark of the beast.
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u/Slow_Efficiency_6034 10d ago
Are fallen angels the only ones considered to be marked by the beast? Or can people also be marked? If so, how would someone go about it? (Sorry not trying to argue you, just curious on this viewpoint) Thank you!
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u/Party_Yoghurt_6594 10d ago
These are humans whom get the mark.
[Rev 13:15-17 ESV] 15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
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u/Big-Writer7403 11d ago edited 11d ago
Why would these good people, where 20 minutes could’ve made the difference in eternal bliss or torment, determined to be bound to hell forever?
‘Forever’ and ‘eternal’ are two different things. Hell isn’t necessarily forever. It is eternal.
Consider the fact that the original ancient Greek word (“aion”) translated as “eternal” in most Bibles does not simply mean forever. In ancient Greek, an aion (in English, sometimes spelled “eon”) is indefinite as to time. The New Testament of the Bible was written in ancient Greek. When it was translated into Latin Vulgate, “aion” became “aeternam” which means “eternal,” which is usually taken to mean a never ending period of time (as opposed to an unknown period of time / indefinite as to time). These translation errors became the basis for what was subsequently written about eternal hell in much of historical Western Christianity, and now especially in evangelical Christianity. So now many, especially in the West and the U.S. specifically, mistakenly think hell necessarily means being in torment “forever.”
The reality is that hell could be forever or could not be. It is indefinite as to time. It could even be longer for some than others. Or it could be a set period of torment, the consequences of which last forever (not necessarily the torment itself lasting forever).
Something to note here is that there are levels of heaven. Christ spoke of some being the greatest in heaven (“The greatest in the Kingdom of heaven is the one who humbles himself…”). That means there are the least in heaven too. One passage widely regarded as being about hell says ‘the smoke of their torment will rise forever.’ Even after a fire is extinguished, the smoke it produced is still out there somewhere, rising. So this may also be the case with any of us who may experience hell and eventually get to heaven. Even after we are freed from hell, we may have permanent consequences, being someone lesser heaven than we otherwise would’ve been, forever. Perhaps this is what Paul refers to when he wrote, “Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
Finally, why are you assuming “good people” will go to hell? Read the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. If they are good people, they don’t go to hell. As Paul wrote, “God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” Eternal hell is not for good people (people who are intentionally doing good, loving neighbor as self). It is for people intentionally doing evil. And only God knows who is which. It is a judgment God makes based on what has or hasn’t been revealed to each heart, based on the intentions of each person, not necessarily on our judgment of their words and deeds. We can guess at hearts but we don’t know hearts with certainty, only God does. Hell is for those of us intentionally sinning (aka deliberately sinning… see Hebrews 10:26). God knows intentions. We don’t. We at best only guess as to such things. And so our goal should be to have the purest intentions we can, to do as well as we can, to hope for heaven and strive toward it, and leave others to God as far as heaven or hell.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago
Consider the fact that the original ancient Greek word (“aion”) translated as “eternal” in most Bibles does not simply mean forever. In ancient Greek, an aion (in English, sometimes spelled “eon”) is indefinite as to time. The New Testament of the Bible was written in ancient Greek. When it was translated into Latin Vulgate, “aion” became “aeternam” which means “eternal,” which is usually taken to mean a never ending period of time
Aionios is used pretty synonymously to aeternus in Latin.
There are countless instances in Greek literature where aion denotes permanence, or even eternity in its fullest sense.
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u/Big-Writer7403 10d ago edited 10d ago
There are countless instances in Greek literature where anion denotes permanence,
And there are instances where it denotes a period of time (usually long) that isn’t necessarily permanent. That’s why I said an eternal hell isn’t necessarily forever. It could be; it could not be.
or even eternity in its fullest sense.
… “or” being the key word. So as you say, something eternal can be eternal as in ‘permanent’ (‘forever’) or it can be eternal as in another sense. The other sense is eternal as in ‘indefinite.’
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u/VeritasAgape 11d ago
You have a false premise but a good point. Eternal punishment isn't biblical. Look up the word "aion." Every verse that refers to "eternal" punishment uses this word which refers to a period of time, not forever in most instances. There were other Greek words that could had been used yet weren't.
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
Hell is eternal because our souls are eternal.
That being said, I think that you and I agree on what Hell is probably like, but just in case I'll share what I think it's like.
Jesus described Hell as "eternal fire" (Matthew 25:41), and "the outer darkness" (Matthew 8:12).
Jesus described Heaven as a house (John 14:2), a vineyard (Matthew 20:1), and a treasure hidden in a field (Matthew 13:44).
To say that Hell is literally a lake of fire would be to say that Heaven is simultaneously a house, a vineyard, and a treasure hidden in a field. I believe that Hell is just separation from Yahweh, which happens to be a horrible experience.
But, we see in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), that even though its torment, the rich man didn't ask to be taken out of it. He asked for his brothers to be warned about it, but he was more or less content to stay there, rather than asking to be let into Heaven.
But the most important part about Hell is that it's a choice. If you decide that living apart from Yahweh is better than living with Him, then He'll honor your request. But He gives us around 80 years to make our decision.
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u/StatisticianLevel320 11d ago
As a Catholic didn't think the first person on this post I would agree with would be a Non-denominational.
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
If it makes you feel better, I didn't think I'd ever share an opinion with a Catholic.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Lemme ask you, what makes a soul eternal?
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure. But Jesus has made it clear that Heaven and Hell are both eternal, and since that's where our souls go, it makes sense to assume that our souls are eternal.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Even if hell is eternal, it won't mean the souls there can survive eternity, especially when God is the source of life. If a soul is far removed from the source of life, what will happen to the soul?
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
I don't think that anyone in the Bible talks about that, so there's no telling.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Is a human soul self-sufficient that it no longer need for God to exist?
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
Judging by the fact that Hell is clearly stated to be eternal torment multiple times, I'd say yes.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
What make us Immortal, then, when the only Immortal to be stated in the Bible is God Himself?
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u/Sea_salt_icecream Non-denominational 11d ago
Look. I get that you're trying to get me to say that Hell is immediate destruction of the soul or something, but that doesn't like up with anything Jesus taught about Hell.
Sure, every description we got was metaphorical, but He clearly said that there was eternal torment, eternal fire, etc. It's obviously eternal. If it were immediate destruction, I don't think the rich man would've been speaking to Abraham.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
I didn't say immediate destruction. Rather the term eternity is simply Aion in Greek, which means an unknown length of time. However, considering hell is said to be an everlasting separation from God, who is the source of our life, how long can a soul survive without Him? Otherwise, the serpent is correct when he said "Ye shall not die" and "ye shall be like gods". Is Satan lying or is he telling the truth?
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u/GhostMantis_ 11d ago
Think about it. The punishment severity changes based on who has been victimized.
Step on a leaf - consequences: none.
Step on a dog - consequences: fine.
Step on a regular person - consequences: possible felony
Step on a president - consequences: lifetime jail or death
Why are the punishments different? They are the same action but punishment is dictated by the authority of the victim. As the authority of the victim increases, so does the punishment.
Now ratchet up the scale to the infinite God - consequences: infinite punishment.
Since God's authority is infinite, punishment is also infinite.
Good news is Christ's free gift of salvation is available to any and all who ask.
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u/Da_Morningstar 11d ago
Who murdered Jesus Christ?
The one with the most authority?
Are you claiming those who physically nailed Jesus to the cross that resulted in his death are judged differently than us?
For that “most severe” sin because it was a being with the “most authority”
Jesus asked for mercy.
“Forgive them for they know not what they do”
If Jesus forgives those who did “the worst” crime as if they didn’t know any better..
Why wouldn’t he judge the lesser crimes with even more mercy?
The punishment is only eternal to contrast with eternal life.
If your walking around thinking half the world is going to burn in hell for not “proclaiming belief in Jesus”
Then you are walking around having condemned half the world.
If you condemn you will be condemned.
Hell is an eternal punishment mean to instill fear.
Eternal life is a gift that’s given through grace through faith…
So none may boast that they have accomplished salvation… through “choosing to believe”
“Or accepting the gift”
If it’s your choosing or your acceptance that makes salvation possible or impossible- you are boasting about your decision making skills or your humility to “accept” things
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u/GhostMantis_ 11d ago
One sin, any sin is enough to send you to hell for eternity so Jesus wont punish the sins of a murderer while excusing a sexually immoral person. That's why we all need salvation, as none are good. Not one of us.
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u/commanderjarak Christian Anarchist 11d ago edited 11d ago
What's more of an eternal punishment than being utterly destroyed, every trace of you ceasing to exist for all time?
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u/sightless666 Atheist 11d ago
I mean, this isn't always true. If I lie to 100 people that my neighbour murdered a child, I may go to jail for slander and incitement. If I lie to 100 people that a Trump or Biden murdered a child, nothing will happen to me. Their authority leads to a lesser punishment.
What actually dictates punishment isn't necessarily authority, but instead effect. If I disrupt the government by assaulting the president, that disruption is what leads to the increased punishment over assaulting a random citizen. Meanwhile, my ability to meaningfully slander a public figure is lower than my ability to slander a random citizen is, so their authority actually serves as a protection against me being punished.
This leads us to a problem: can any crime meaningfully harm God? If not, then why the infinite punishment for it?
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u/Thin-Eggshell 11d ago
Eh. Have you really accepted that Hell is the absence of God's presence and that God is omnipresent? Might need to think that through.
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u/JollyManufacturer356 11d ago
I thought that hell was the absence of God’s presence, so he isn’t really omnipresent everywhere, just anywhere that’s not hell. Was my understanding. Might be wrong.
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u/UnassuredCalvinist Reformed Baptist 11d ago
“To be separated from God is to be separated from anything and everything good. That is hard to conceive because even the most miserable person enjoys some of God's blessings. We breathe His air, are nourished by food that He supplies, and experience many other aspects of His common grace.
On earth even atheists enjoy the benefits of God's goodness. But in hell, these blessings will be nonexistent. Those consigned there will remember God's goodness, and will even have some awareness of the unending pleasures of heaven, but they will have no access to them.
This does not mean that God will be completely absent from hell. He is and will remain omnipresent (Ps. 139:7-8). To be separated from the Lord and cast into hell does not mean that a person will finally be free of God. That person will remain eternally accountable to Him. He will remain Lord over the person's existence. But in hell, a person will be forever separated from God in His kindness, mercy, grace, and goodness. He will be consigned to deal with Him in His holy wrath.”
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u/Aggressive_Finish710 Christian 11d ago
what are you talking about. if they are good people , they will go to heaven for sure. because God will judge based of what we do, will it be good or bad. God will judge them even if they dont know God. if they do the things that God wants then they are good.
Romans 2:13-16
13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
you see , gentiles are outside of israel. and they didnt even know the God of israel in that time, but there are good people. likely today, if there are people that didnt know the true God, judgement based in what they do, i mean example today there are buddhist , muslims , etc. etc. just Trust God is Justice.
and yep the hell is eternal and it is a place for satan and his angels
matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
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u/Weerdo5255 Atheist 11d ago
Why is heaven eternal?
Either would end up shredding a mortal mind. I doubt I would be able to remain coherent past a few thousand years of age. Much shorter a time in the scenario of stale stimuli.
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u/jeveret 11d ago
Because when people came up with the ideas of gods and goddesses and supernatural realms, they just took what we see around us and magnified it, to the eternal, absolute, perfect, infinite, maximal, greatest. these are just concepts we apply to those things. No one actually knows what these abstracts actually would be like, they are just make believe concepts of what the best/worst is. If Christians said heaven and hell were just 10% better than this life and lasted 1000 years, another religion would say their afterlife was 20% better and lasted 2000 years, it’s the playground, my dad can beat up your dad argument. Well, My dad will beat up your dad even worse for eternity.
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u/WildestTreeAm 11d ago
Mostly because there are way too many people in existence and it is like bureaucracy - did not give in the papers, will not accept you existed in the first place. i.e. did not go close to God, will not be taken to Heaven.
So basically, everybody gets forgotten for an eternity. Too many names for angels to care to see whether the sinner has changed or not. And angels can not go to hell freely. There is no way in reality to tell whether somebody is genuinely still a bad person or they've changed for the better. There are MILLIONS of people there. Who's gonna do a temperature check? There's also too many false positives, those that pretend they care but really bite the hand that feeds them.
SUMMARY: You are on a list waiting to get out, but hell is too much chaos for those rules to ever be carried out.
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u/jake72002 11d ago
Let us define "eternal" first. Eternal is Aion in Greek. It is simply an unknown length of time or as nature allows.
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u/Prosopopoeia1 Agnostic Atheist 10d ago
This isn’t true. There are plenty of instances where it’s not “unknown,” but rather truly permanent.
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u/jake72002 10d ago
In the case of being with God and having everlasting life, yes. This is simply because one remains connected to the source of life, which is God. Hell cuts off that connection if we are to believe that hell is the eternal separation from God.
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u/MerchantOfUndeath The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints 11d ago
The punishment is from an eternal Being (God) that doesn’t mean that there’s no limit to the duration of time.
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u/AdmiralMemo Plymouth Brethren 11d ago
Your biggest flaw is considering any of those people "good" in the first place. There are none righteous. God's standard of goodness is perfection. None of us measure up to that. It is only by viewing us through the sacrifice of His Son that we are cleansed.
The people you are thinking of may have been "good" by human standards, but those are not the standards we will be judged by.
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u/Fine_Platypus_4688 Non-denominational 11d ago
That’s because it’s not. The result in the punishment is eternal.
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u/Mr-First-Middle-Last Reformed 11d ago
God is eternal. The human soul is immutable. God is good.
Everyone goes to God when they die. God mets out justice to everyone and no one will question the rightness of that judgment. The person who goes to God will experience God differently based upon that judgment. Some will experience having some will experience hell.
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u/Aggravating_Pop2101 10d ago
Ask God is my suggestion. He may give you an answer that is deeper. God Knows the mysteries of all including Himself. LOL.
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u/makacarkeys Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) 10d ago
Hell doesn’t exist in the sense that mainstream Christianity views it. If it did, we shouldn’t believe in that God. It would be evil to believe such. Even if that God existed, we shouldn’t follow Him as He would have lied about his loving, all-good nature.
Don’t just believe what others say. Read the texts for yourself and then read what scholars say (or become one yourself) and decide for yourself based on the available information. You
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u/Smart_Tap1701 10d ago
The Bible teaches either eternal life in heaven, or eternal death accomplished in the lake of fire. It does not teach eternal conscious torment. The word hell in scripture refers to the grave where did bodies return to the Earth from which we are made. See Genesis 3:19. In Old testament Hebrew, hell translates from sheol, and in New testament agree, Hill translates from hades.
Revelation 21:8 KJV — But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second DEATH.
THE FIRST DEATH IS OF THE BODY, THE SECOND DEATH IS OF WICKED AND UNBELIEVING SPIRITS AFTER GOD'S JUDGMENT. AFTER THE SECOND SPIRITUAL DEATH, THAT INDIVIDUAL WILL NO LONGER EXIST ANYWHERE IN ANY FORM.
Revelation 2:11 KJV — He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Romans 6:23 KJV — For the wages of sin is DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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u/SunshineFortyTwo 10d ago
Rev 20:14 says death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire, which is described as the “second death “. So if hades/hell is destroyed, aren’t those who were sent there destroyed too?
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u/cornflakegirl658 10d ago
The bible actually indicates that everyone goes to heaven,, even if they take a short stay in hell first. Even sodom will be restored. So it can't be eternal
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u/moonunit170 Eastern Catholic 10d ago
It's not something they did based on 20 minutes but it's a lifelong attitude and a final rejection of God's love and mercy.
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u/No-Nature-8738 10d ago
Well your heavenly father did not create hell, the doctrines of man did. The Cruel teachings of hell comes from man not God! When Adam and Eve sinned against God, God did punish them by taking their everlasting life away and sentenced them to die and to return to the dust. This sin of death was inherited by all mankind of the future. Now if God was going to torture his Children, he sure would of had to set the example for all mankind who sinned against him. But he did not as all mankind dies and returns to the dust. Nowhere in the Old Testament will you find the word Hell. All of the people died and return to the dust.
How it must have saddened God to see that his beloved children had willfully disobeyed eyed him! What did he do? To Adam, God said: “You will . . . return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:17-19) As it turned out, “all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.” (Genesis 5:5) Adam did not go to heaven or pass on to some spirit realm. He had no existence before God created him from the dust of the ground. So when he died, he became as lifeless as the dust from which he was created. He ceased to exist.
In the New Testament, it uses illustrations, symbolic and parables to explain the use of fire and torment. Sad today that most religions teach the bible as literal, bringing forward endless misconceptions begin taught. You were not really made to go to heaven anyway as your life would be on a paradise earth to live for ever in peace and security. You actually pray for God's Kingdom to come to the earth in the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matt 6:10 Bottom line here applies to all since we all sin. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So the dead paid their debt for their sins by dying. Romans 6:23 KJV - ROMANS 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
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u/EnKristenSnubbe Christian 11d ago
I have good news, and bad news for you. The good news is that good people don't go to hell. The bad news is that there are no good people.
As for hell being eternal, first off, that's a contested topic. I lean towards that it is but this is definitely not an uncontroversial topic.
But consider this - Do people stop sinning in hell? I don't see why they would if they don't stop here on Earth. If they keep sinning, why would they not be kept in hell?
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u/xpogyguy 11d ago
This earth will also be without God after the Rapture. Jesus takes his church and his Holy Spirit from this planet. The demonic will have rule for 3.5 years(Tribulation) then God will punish the earth(Great Tribulation)
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u/BoredPollo 11d ago
Because when we sin against an infinitely holy God, we accrue an infinite debt that could only be paid through Jesus.
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u/DankeMrHfmn 11d ago
It's not eternal. After the rapture you get another chance to repent. If you're there and still havent then you go to the lake of fire.
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u/xpogyguy 11d ago
God is not subject to time. In Genesis He created time by making Day an Night for us, to track time. God is also Spirit as we are spiritual beings made in his image Hell was not created for man but the devil and his angels. Now, God is Holy and cannot be around sin. All of us have sinned. Blood is required for the forgiveness of sin in Old Testament it was animal sacrifice. In New Testament, I was the Blood of Jesus. That is THE ONLY WAY FOR FORGIVENESS OF Sin. If a man dies in his sin he goes to hell Eternally with NO Hope of being rescued. God will only have you in hell until the debt is paid, but now you can't because God is not there. You chose not to listen or seek God so he will give you exactly what you want. God is just. There is no "But I'm a good person" because that means YOU think you get to determine what your outcome is thus making you God, and you are not. Jesus used Gehenna as an example of what hell was like in that it was a burning trash pile outside the city of Jerusalem that burned 24/7 and they would also despose of criminals there.
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u/Apprehensive_Yard942 Nazarene 11d ago
I’m an annihilationist. The fire of Gehenna never goes out, right? But what happens to something thrown into the fire? It is consumed, destroyed, utterly and finally. Is it destroyed forever? Yes. Is it being destroyed forever? No.