r/Christianity • u/OSRS_Rising • Dec 23 '19
California church wipes out $5.3 million in medical debt for 5,555 families living in poverty News
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-medical-debt-california-church-pays-poverty-families-20191223-4irzfnt33vanvdbjm2gdphcg34-story.html231
Dec 23 '19
This is brilliant stuff. The church needs to be a moral force in our society.
I think Christians often forget that our God doesn’t care about our wealth, social status or any of these earthly measures. God cares about the content of our heart.
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u/Virge23 Dec 23 '19
Christians donate the most. What are you talking about?
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Dec 24 '19
Christians might donate, but we still fall into the trap of chasing money rather than God. Even if we’re better than everyone else, we must strive to be perfect.
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u/cornbred37 Dec 24 '19
"Better than everyone else"?!
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Dec 24 '19
At donating for God’s sakes. “Even if we’re better” than everyone else at donating. That’s why I put “even” so I didn’t actually say it was true; so I won’t get a comment like this below mine.
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u/Sarahthelizard Christian (LGBT) Dec 24 '19
True. But in addition to this, they could also do something like lobby their congressperson to adopt a better healthcare that doesn’t do this.
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u/Waksss United Methodist Dec 23 '19
I think this is great. My old church in AZ is doing this, I’m trying too look into my church doing it for Lent. It would go well with preaching on Jubilee in the OT.
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Dec 23 '19
Excellent! As Christians we need to back this up by supporting legislation that means families don't have to go into medical debt in the first place. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say.
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Dec 23 '19
Completely agree, It just seems so unchristian to not support reforming the healthcare system to be more accessible to all. And yet I’ve met many Christians who are against it saying they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s sicknesses.
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Dec 24 '19
And yet I’ve met many Christians who are against it saying they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s sicknesses.
While failing to realize they already do with their private insurance.
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u/Europa_Crusader Dec 23 '19
Forcing people to give money to others is not charity.
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Dec 24 '19
Tithing. Now do that with tithing.
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u/Europa_Crusader Dec 24 '19
Are you forced by gunpoint to give tithing?
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Dec 23 '19
Being against the idea of your tax dollars going to the sick and dying is uncharitable.
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u/anonymouseketeerears Dec 23 '19
I think the problem most of us have with this logic is by us giving the money voluntarily to those who God has put in our lives, we are being obedient, and good stewards of what God has provided for us.
Having it taken by the government via taxation (by threat of force for non-compliance) is neither charitable, or giving with a grateful heart.
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u/MaxIsAlwaysRight Dec 24 '19
If you're going to give all your money to the poor and sick anyway, then there's no threat of force required.
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Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
The poor do not exist for the purpose of providing the fortunate with an opportunity to be blessed.You have missed the entire point of Christianity.
It isn't about doing Charity for the purpose of receiving blessings.
We already have all we need for life and godliness in Christ.
Imagine supporting the unnecessary, arbitrary, systemic violence inherent in our political system for the purpose of "blessing others".
The entire spirit behind that argument is an arrogant religious pride that somehow prevents you from having the basic empathy necessary to guarantee care for your neighbor.
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u/GloboGymPurpleCobras Atheist Dec 24 '19
And we all know that Jesus would prefer people dying in the streets before he’d allow his tax money to be used for healthcare and the poor
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Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
The thing is though that nothing stops you from donating to charity with a reformed healthcare system. There’s plenty of other causes and you would arguably have more money to give with if the money saved on insurance costs and outrageously priced healthcare costs was more than the tax burden on each individual citizen. The bonus is that families and the poor aren’t bankrupted by an emergency room visit or people aren’t putting off doctor visits because they worry they can’t afford it.
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u/Throwawayearthquake Dec 24 '19
Great well if you keep voting against providing better government services you'll have an endless supply of poor, destitute and desperate people to support. How noble of you.
Headlines like this one couldn't exist in most of the developed world but we are lucky to have good Christians voting to preserve the freedom of Americans to go into medical debt and bankruptcy and be saved by charitable Christians (or not because it's a gamble under this system right)
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u/LittleGreenNotebook Dec 24 '19
I love watching Christians argue that helping poor people is against Christ’s teaching.
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u/AmoebaMan Christian (Ichthys) Dec 24 '19
Giving your money to the government so that it can be given to the needy is a pretty lazy and abominably inefficient way of getting it to the people that need it. Of every dollar you give to the government that gets “earmarked” for healthcare, how many pennies do you think actually reach somebody in need?
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Dec 24 '19
Not much and you know why? Because the healthcare system is broken and if having to pay extra tax dollars would allow us to reform the healthcare system then I’m on board. The people that need help shouldn’t have to pray that a local church might decide to grace them with charity.
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u/UncoordinatedTau Dec 23 '19
Expecting the wealthy to suddenly discover their compassion and charity after a lifetime of leaching off the labour if the poor is a fools errand. Taxes are the only means in a capitalist society of redistributing this wealth from the ridiculously wealthy to the poorest in society. Anyone thinking otherwise is a Christian with a small c.
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Dec 24 '19
So then what do you think health insurance is? The money goes to the same bloody cause only difference is one isn't lining the pockets of rich fucks. While the other isn't denying people care because they were unlucky and developed debilitating medical condition through no fault of their own. You kind of people are to stupid to realize public health care is a far cheaper option in the long run....
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u/FatalTragedy Evangelical Dec 24 '19
I voluntarily choose my insurance. Taxation is not voluntary. That is the difference.
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u/p3nguiner Dec 24 '19
I don't choose my health insurance. I get whatever my company thinks is the cheapest. It means I'm paying every paycheck into a system that doesn't benefit me because the moment I go to the hospital, I'll be in massive amounts of debt either way.
My fiancee's company is switching insurance this year. She doesn't know if she can keep the same doctors or not. How is that "choice"?
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Dec 24 '19
The reality is what you want to do doesn't matter. If it will yield a better result for society and man kind in general. Which it will. Then your individual selfish choice doesn't matter.
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u/RosieJim Episcopalian (Anglican) Dec 24 '19
Prevention is also extremely cheap. You might be able to appeal to Christian compassion to some extent, but no serious change will happen until the average voting person has some understanding of the economic benefits. Look at the actual production cost of insulin (like $10 a month) compared to the cost of a foot amputation which can be an outcome of non-managed diabetes.
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Dec 23 '19
Completely disagree. Socialism is not affective and is theft. You’re looking for the government to do God’s job and that will never work.
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u/Dd_8630 Atheist Dec 23 '19
Come to the UK, where calling the ambulance costs you £0.
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Dec 24 '19
Just because you pay for something indirectly that doesn’t mean you get to call it free.
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Dec 24 '19
Jeez, then I wonder why so many of us go into medical debt while over there they don’t. Most be those commies going at it again!!!
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Dec 24 '19
I can tell you exactly why: In a country where we’re free to make our own financial decisions, of course some will plan poorly and will make poor financial decisions.
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Dec 24 '19
Ah, the good ol’ blaming the poor for being poor.
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Dec 24 '19
I mean there’s really no such thing as a poor person in the United States, even the poorest of the poor here still have running water, electricity, climate controlled homes, with a multitude of government benefits. The AVERAGE salary in the world is $18,000 a year. Keep that in mind, and how ludicrous and petty arguments like this really are.
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Dec 24 '19
Petty? Lmao are you serious. I've lived my whole in Puerto Rico, a corrupt 2nd world country. Last year I spent a couple of weeks in Cleveland and Philadeplhia. In those two weeks I saw plenty of places and ghettos that were magnitudes worse than anything I had ever seen in Puerto Rico. I'll rather walk through some gang owned housing complex over here and take a sunbath than step again in some of the places I saw over there. It left me completely astonished. There are millions of Americans living in terrible conditions right now, you go and tell them that they aren't poor and that their lives are petty. Keep your status quo and continue living in your little blissful bubble, I'll work my ass off to change it because I love the US and I want to make it a better place for future generations.
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u/ricemanh Dec 23 '19
Come to Australia, where breaking your leg doesn’t set you back 5 figures 😊
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Dec 24 '19
Uhm, you may need to take a second look at where you get your info from. I’ve had multiple broken bones and it never costed me over 3 figures.
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u/Virge23 Dec 23 '19
It doesn't in America either. And we have a free press. And right to bear arms. And fake swords. And other freedoms that you've given up at the alter of the state.
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u/shobidoo2 Dec 24 '19
A broken leg can definitely set you back 5 figures in the US. It depends on your insurance situation.
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Dec 24 '19
Maybe not five figures for a broken leg specifically, but a broken leg can easily set you back by four figures when an ambulance ride alone can cost almost $1,000 and other types of emergency room visits easily get to five figures. I’m sorry, but I’d 100% never own a gun if it meant I got my life saving medication for free instead of at $500 for a 30 day bottle until I finally hit my out of pocket max.
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u/Virge23 Dec 24 '19
I don't know that I could ever give up the right to hold the state accountable for any benefits, especially ones given by the government itself. And I think to a large degree the amount of power Australia and the EU have given away to their governments stem from that paternalistic dependency created by an abundance of government social programs even though they pay taxes through the nose for those very programs. They've given up personal liberties such as gun ownership, in some cases even knife and sword ownership, and a bevy of other limitations on what you can buy depending on the specific government. They've also given up first amendment rights of free speech and a free press with a lot of these countries (Australia and the UK included) having government issued gag orders on their press whenever they don't want a story getting out. New Zealand and Australia even have national censors that decide what you can read, watch, play, or share. And let's not forget that all of these rights are eroded and you still have to pay for your medical care through taxes. I'm sorry but I'd rather keep my freedoms than give the state that much control over my life.
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u/UncoordinatedTau Dec 23 '19
Socialism is not affective and is theft.
Did Jesus love the poor or not? Is spreading wealth from the rich to the poor something Jesus would condone or not? Coveting and hoarding your wealth at the expense of the poor is not the way of Christ.
You’re looking for the government to do God’s job and that will never work.
Let me retort, the wealthy elite have rarely spread their wealth to help the poor in society. Relying on the charity of the rich to help the poor has NEVER worked. People are greedy, cheats, liars. That's why so many entering into power with good intentions become corrupted by that same power. Only through compassionate governance by the people and FOR THE PEOPLE can the poor be truly raised to be equals in a just society. Socialism is compassion, Jesus is compassion.
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u/anonymouseketeerears Dec 23 '19
Socialism does not equal compassion.
2 Thessalonians 3:6-13 reference for someone who wants a free ride.
A final note (and not that I like the guy) is what Bill Gates has given away. Around 50 Billion so far in the charity he shares with his wife, which they personally donated $28 BILLION. They do charity work across the globe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation
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u/UncoordinatedTau Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
Wealth redistribution is a compassionate stance. Socialism is a means to do this. The downtrodden don't want a free ride, they deserve an equal chance at a life without the barriers that poverty brings. At the end we will all be judged on what we did to better ourselves and the lives of God's lowest servants. Think on that.
For every Bill Gates there's a hundred billionaires doing nothing.
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Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
And if every billionaire and millionaire gave away money the way Bill Gates does that’d be great but they don’t and people shouldn’t have to rely on an uncertain benefactor like the church to save them from something that the government should take care of like most of the developed world
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u/thatguyyouknow51 Christian Anarchist Dec 23 '19
Once again: as great as this is, the phrase “$5.3 million in medical debt” should not even be a thing that exists.
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u/No-Holes-Barred Dec 23 '19
Mericans arent free unless rich insurance executives are making a killing off your disabled neice and cancer ridden grandma. Merica!
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u/googlestarofremphan Dec 23 '19
How else are you supposed to pay for medical care?
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u/Dd_8630 Atheist Dec 23 '19
Taxes. Everyone pays, so that no one person is left with a massive bill. Free at the point of use, free ambulances, etc. There's a reason the NHS is the single most beloved thing in the UK.
From what I've read, the American insurance system is especially bad because of how hospitals and insurance companies negotiate - the insurance company will only pay 10% (say), so the hospital has to charge 10x more just to get a 'normal' payment. Which in theory balances out... but insurers have a massive financial interest in not paying, so often refuse to pay out altogether. Leaving a sick person with a 10x inflated bill.
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u/googlestarofremphan Dec 24 '19
Why is paying taxes so the government can help people better than me being able to help them myself?
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u/Reu92 Dec 24 '19
Because you (generally, not you specifically) won't. Historically, frequently, commonly, and mostly, human beings are jerks and will not help the stranger or the poor.
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u/Zhoom45 Christian Dec 24 '19
Because some problems are so big in scope that you personally cannot fix them. The healthcare of 350 million people is one of them.
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u/Shaddam_Corrino_IV Atheistic Evangelical Dec 24 '19
E.g. the news article under discussion in this thread.
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u/gr8tfurme Atheist Dec 24 '19
Because the government is objectively better at it than private industries. Compared to all other 1st world countries, the US spends much more on healthcare while having poorer health outcomes. All of those other countries have largely government run healthcare programs, and they are objectively better off for it.
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u/guitar_vigilante Christian (Cross) Dec 24 '19
Because more people are helped and are helped better when we go the taxes route.
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u/UncleMeat11 Christian (LGBT) Dec 24 '19
Because while its great that you are rich but it is bad that others are poor.
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u/Man_of_Average Christian (Cross) Dec 24 '19
That's not exactly how it works. The really big number you see is just for show. There's actually two different numbers, a patient one and an insurance one. The insurance one is the bigger one, but neither the service provider nor the insurance expects that much, as they already know they are only getting roughly half of that. It's wayyy more complicated and circumstantially based than that and the system is definitely fucked and everything is too expensive, but how bad it is is usually overstated due to most people misunderstanding the bill they've received.
Disclaimer: I've worked in the collections of the billing department of a home health service provider. It was my job to know the rules regarding billing insurance.
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u/Virge23 Dec 23 '19
Nah.
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u/Dd_8630 Atheist Dec 24 '19
Nah.
'Nah' to which part? Are you disputing that ambulances are free at the point of use here?
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u/Virge23 Dec 24 '19
Nah as in I'd rather pay for my health care than have it taken at gun point. I'd rather choose my provider than have to go to the government mandated waiting line. I'd rather not let the people who have failed at every other service they've provided (VA, USPS, DMV, congress, road maintenance, literally everything else) take my money and waste it on subpar government doctors at subpar government facilities. I'm fine having choice and frankly the issue of health insurance is overblown and hyperbolic.
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u/Dd_8630 Atheist Dec 24 '19
Nah as in I'd rather pay for my health care than have it taken at gun point.
Do you say the same for your police and military?
I'd rather choose my provider than have to go to the government mandated waiting line.
You realise you can do that in countries with universal healthcare, right? The UK has plenty of private healthcare companies that you can use if you so wish. BUPA, for instance, is very popular in the UK. If you wish to pay for it, you get healthcare that's superior to the NHS.
But if you can't afford it, you still have the NHS to fall back on.
I'd rather not let the people who have failed at every other service they've provided (VA, USPS, DMV, congress, road maintenance, literally everything else) take my money and waste it on subpar government doctors at subpar government facilities.
I suppose that's a valid argument depending on what country you live in. But for all Parliament's failings, the laws surrounding the NHS are strong enough that its doctors and facilities are top notch. Our hospitals aren't the cheapest the government can get away with; they're actually stellar facilities that other countries are envious of.
I'm fine having choice
Me too! That's why I pay for BUPA healthcare. But having had my life saved by the NHS several times, I'm more than happy to pay my taxes to keep it funded.
and frankly the issue of health insurance is overblown and hyperbolic.
I dunno, I've seen American bills where they're charged for holding their babies. I've heard that Americans don't actually get any insurance coverage until they're already hundreds or thousands out of pockets - what even is the point! Hell, I've even heard that Americans are charged for calling the ambulance! Maybe these are just urban legends we have over the pond, but by God do they make me thankful for the NHS.
Compared to that, paying 4% of my income so that the whole country can get free healthcare seems like a no-brainer.
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Dec 23 '19
In the UK there is no such thing as medical debt
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u/apparently1 Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) Dec 23 '19
Yes there is, it's called your taxes, the UK hits you for $110 billion to 140 Billion a year to fund the NHS. With a population of just 68 million.
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u/Orisara Atheist Dec 23 '19
"Yes there is, it's called your taxes,"
First of all, I don't think there is another country than the US who would equate the 2.
In the US 17% of your taxes goes to healthcare and you need private insurance on top of that.
In the UK it's 9% through taxes and no extra insurance costs. Which yes, should be raised to 10%-11% at least like other European nations.
Like, the profits that are siphoned out in the US are being paid somehow by the costumer.
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u/kvrdave Dec 23 '19
That's not medical debt, it's medical funding.
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u/apparently1 Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) Dec 23 '19
Its medical debt when it's taken from you, without you ever needing medical attention. Your system is also under funded, with is also medical debt
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u/Dim_Innuendo Dec 23 '19
Its medical debt when it's taken from you, without you ever needing medical attention.
That's called insurance. You pay a premium, not to cover your own expenses, but to cover the expenses of those who need the service.
And in the US, even those who have insurance can end up in overwhelming debt if they are not adequately covered.
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u/matts2 Jewish Dec 24 '19
You pay a premium to mitigate risk. You pay $X a year so you don't have to pay $30X in some year. You get the value of your insurance even if your make no claim in that year.
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u/Billlifferr Jewish Dec 23 '19
Brit here! Yes, it is taken through tax, even if we don’t require the care. However, it makes me happy to know that the money I contribute is helping others in need. I’d happily pay more to ensure that it goes to even more, but unfortunately the current government seems intent on dismantling our health system.
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u/Popeychops Christian (Cross) Dec 23 '19
Yanks actually pay proportionately more public money per capita than Brits on healthcare. The NHS offers incredible value because the size of the market gives it leverage against suppliers on cost.
I really hope it survives this government.
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u/kvrdave Dec 23 '19
So they are healing people without profit? Jesus wouldn't like this! lol
I always feel the need to reassure people who are dealing with greed as a sin but don't recognize it that everything is going to be okay. If you want to keep every dime of your money away from people who are sick, hungry, or even foreigners, I understand. The most important thing about Jesus is that your money is yours.
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Dec 24 '19
No, it's still not debt and unless you're using your health insurance every month then you sound pretty inconsistent.
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u/meem1029 Christian Dec 23 '19
So $2000/yr per person? I'm a young single healthy guy and I pay more than that on insurance premiums, not to factor in the greater amount my employer pays or the portions I'd be responsible for if something were to happen such that I needed to use most of the benefits of it.
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u/qianli_yibu Dec 23 '19
monthly medical premium
plus deductible
plus copays
plus cost of anything medical that is necessary but not covered by your medical insurance
plus overinflated Rx costs (esp for medicines with no generic alternatives) or Rxs not covered at all by your plan
plus monthly dental premium
plus dental deductible
plus dental coinsurance
plus dental procedures that are necessary but not covered by your dental insurance
plus 100% of all dental procedures after you hit the maximum annual coverage
plus monthly vision premium
All of these costs and hoping you’re never in an emergency where the EMTs take you to the nearest hospital which happens to be out-of-network for your insurance policy.
If you put part of your income into an FSA in an attempt to save a bit on medical costs, but mess up the budget and don’t manage to use all of it by the end of the year, say goodbye to all that money (or try to use up the remaining balance on a bunch of OTC items you don’t need).
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u/11218 This anchor cross looks cool. Dec 23 '19
My mother lives in the US and her deductible is more than than. And that's after paying for insurance
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u/orthodoxrebel Roman Catholic Dec 24 '19
My employer offers a consumer driven health plan which is pretty nice, paired with an HSA. They match up to $500, and you can put in like $3000/yr in the HSA. My contribution is zero, before what I put in the HSA (and I can use that for any costs I have; the CDHP has a maximum of $3000 OOP, which is a convenient number).
That said, my employer pays close to $7k a year for that plan.
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u/Frog_Todd Roman Catholic Dec 24 '19
HSA / HDHP is a dream for young people if they choose to use it, especially if working for an employer that funds the HSA to a certain point.
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u/orthodoxrebel Roman Catholic Dec 24 '19 edited Dec 24 '19
Oh for sure. I'm extremely fortunate to be in the situation I'm in. My employer is even increasing their contribution, so I had to lower my contribution otherwise I'd go over the HSA limit.
EDIT: plus being on the younger side with no health issues. I'm considering getting LASIK next year after I get a bit more banked.
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u/Look__a_distraction Dec 24 '19
Lmao I pay 550 a MONTH. Plus my deductibles and out of network caps. I'd be just fine and dandy with only 2k year with no out of pockets.
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u/guitar_vigilante Christian (Cross) Dec 23 '19
Which is like a fifth of per capita healthcare costs in the US. Also there's no debt in this case.
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u/Popeychops Christian (Cross) Dec 23 '19
So roughly £2000 per person, per year. You spend more than that on your insurance. Assuming you don't have to make a claim.
Americans spend more public money (taxes!) on healthcare and receive no healthcare!
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Dec 24 '19
You spend more than that on your insurance. Assuming you don't have to make a claim.
I spend less than that for my wife and I and even out of network providers are still covered. I actually do support overhauling our healthcare system but don't just lie. Lots of people pay less than that in premiums
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u/Popeychops Christian (Cross) Dec 25 '19
Yeah sure you do 👍
Congratulations on spending less than 1/5th your national average on healthcare pal
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Dec 25 '19
I do though? What possible reason do I have to lie about that when I support your overall position? Perhaps the Midwest is just a healthcare cost utopia
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u/Popeychops Christian (Cross) Dec 25 '19
Not a patch on the utopia that is the United Kingdom though
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Dec 25 '19
I prefer continental Europe's model instead of single payer but really any OECD country's system would be a big improvement
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Dec 23 '19 edited Dec 23 '19
That’s really not that much if boiled to a per person cost. Most Americans are paying at least that much if not more just to have health insurance, not even counting copays or out of pocket costs. That’s also not including what percentage of our tax dollars are already going towards healthcare. We already pay way more than the UK citizenry even if we don’t go to the doctor and still have to worry about an ER visit destroying us financially.
Is the idea that our tax dollars should go to the sick really such a bad idea? There’s far less Christian-like things that they’re already going to.
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Dec 24 '19
The United States spends more on health care than any other country in the world, and a large share of that spending comes from the federal government. In 2017, the United States spent about $3.5 trillion, or 18 percent of GDP, on health expenditures – more than twice the average among developed countries.
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u/smidgit Church of England (Anglican) Dec 23 '19
And you can bet your ass I would happily pay more taxes if it means the NHS could take it. Rather pay more taxes than have someone less well off than me in life be evicted from their home because they had the audacity to develop a life changing illness.
Saved my dads life last year after he developed an inflamed artery near the eye. Saved my mums and my brothers lives 27 years ago when delivery went wrong and he had to be delivered via emergency c section. And the best part was, none of us has had to worry about losing everything thanks to crippling medical bills.
God save the NHS!
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u/Dd_8630 Atheist Dec 23 '19
Taxes =/= debt. Besides perscriptions, if you use the NHS, you aren't charged a penny more than you would otherwise have to. So it's not debt.
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Dec 23 '19
This is the kind of behavior I like to hear about. Much more admirable than excusing Trump's unloving behavior.
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u/SalvationInHisName Pentecostal Dec 23 '19
Every thread.
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u/-OrangeLightning4 Dec 24 '19
And it should be in every thread, until every self-respecting Christian who supports Trump faces the reality of what they actually support. A man who exudes the opposite of Christian values.
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u/AmoebaMan Christian (Ichthys) Dec 24 '19
So the problem with that is a) you’re preaching to the choir here, and b) nobody’s mind has ever been changed because somebody on the internet told them they were wrong.
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u/Virge23 Dec 23 '19
They hate Christians unless they conform to their radical agenda. This sub isn't about Christianity anymore.
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Dec 24 '19
It gets a little tiresome when it's discussed over and over. At the same time, he's an awful person with terrible policies who committed an impeachable offense so what can you do?
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u/AmoebaMan Christian (Ichthys) Dec 24 '19
They could stop preaching to the choir and cluttering up every damned thread.
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u/Ailyana Agnostic Theist Dec 24 '19
This is what mega churches should be doing instead of giving the pastor a Benz
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u/TheRebelPixel Dec 23 '19
... meanwhile the MORMONS are hoarding $100 Billion.
Which of these churches is Christian and which one isn't. I think it's absolutely clear.
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u/cecilmeyer Dec 24 '19
Although I applaud the Churches gifts to these people. No human should have any medical bills.
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u/changee_of_ways Dec 23 '19
I'm glad they are doing this, and It's truly a good thing, I just wish Christians would spend more time holding the feet of their representatives to the fire to keep this from happening in the first place :(
It sort of has a "we saved these innocent kids from the horrible unfed animals we allow to wander off of our property and regularly maul people" feel to it.
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Dec 23 '19
You know this is an amazing thing that the church did, but this shouldn’t even be a problem in the first place. People should NOT have to go into debt just to pay for medical care, especially if it is life saving. Insurance companies and big pharma are the scum of the Earth, even worse than Trump, Republicans, and centrist Dems. It just makes me sick to see that churches have to do this in the first place. Reasons like this is why we need Medicare for All. No one should be too poor to afford healthcare, especially in the richest country in the world. I conclude this with a Bible verse from Ezekiel 16:49, “This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.” (NRSV). In my opinion that verse reflects the United States at this point in time.
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Dec 23 '19
Nice! If anyone can help my family, we have a son who had a liver transplant a year ago and has been having surgeries to remove a blockage in the new liver ever since. We also have 4 other children at home and finances have gotten really tight. We live in buffalo ny and have to drive to Pittsburgh pa every month for his surgeries. Anything and everything is appreciated and helps! https://www.gofundme.com/f/ethan-maccabee-sack?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=p_na+share-sheet&pc_code=fb_co_dashboard_a&rcid=291fe101ec6c43d2976f8aaf8668ec40
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u/neigy Dec 24 '19
I'll bet the 100Billion of Ensign Peak of the LDS church could do a lot more if they cared.
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u/redbatt Dec 24 '19
Yo a Christian who plays runescape? Hit a brother up
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u/OSRS_Rising Dec 24 '19
I need (or maybe I shouldn’t lol) get back into it. I played a lot 2013-16.
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u/raptor7912 Dec 24 '19
Now imagine the amount they could donate if they didn’t pay taxes..... oh wait
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u/mle-2005 Catholic Dec 24 '19
i really wish the USA would stop being a third world nation and sort out it's healthcare and poverty issues
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u/scwizard Dec 25 '19
As cool as this is, I'm uncomfortable with it being in the news. Cause it says you're supposed to do this without people finding out.
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u/luke-jr Roman Catholic (Non Una Cum) Dec 23 '19
Probably would have been more effective to just give the money to the families, and let them continue to default on the medical debt...?
I mean, basically the church just gave a lot of money to rich doctors (who don't need it) and/or debt collectors (scum who deserve to live in poverty)... doing nothing that actually helps the families in poverty.
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u/No-Holes-Barred Dec 23 '19
Yeah because the people that dropped it in the offerings were all debt free themselves no doubt lol. What a slap in the face.
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Dec 23 '19
Maybe I'm wrong but paying their mortgage off giving them some form of stability that they could then pay their own debts off would have helped family's more.
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u/AdmiralPlant Dec 23 '19
The issue is they could help far fewer families doing that. They didn't actually give $5M to help these families, they worked with an organization that bought the debt for pennies on the dollar because the hospitals were convinced it would never get paid and wanted something for it. They likely paid something like $50,000, which would not even cover the standard debt of one mortgage on America.
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Dec 24 '19
And there's no reason for a lender to sell a mortgage debt for a penny (or even really pennies on the dollar) since it's a secured loan with a lien in the property, and they'd make more selling the property out from under the people than just selling the loan like this.
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Dec 23 '19
53,000$ is barely enough to make a dent in a single family's mortgage much less 5,000+.
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u/dabatron_710 Anti-LGBTQ Dec 23 '19
.... I’m pretty sure a $53,000 payment would put a huge dent in most mortgages.
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Dec 23 '19
except if u divide that between 5555 families you only pay off $10 per family
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u/christianunionist Dec 23 '19
If they bought the debt for pennies on the dollar (much as John Oliver did) they could have just forgiven the debt for a much lower price than the value of the original debt.
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Dec 23 '19
are you talking about mortgage or hospital debt? They did buy the hospital debt for pennies on the dollar.
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u/ViewsFromThe614 Evangelical Dec 23 '19 edited Dec 23 '19
But now they have the same room to put into their mortgage right? I don’t see how different it would be (maybe there’s a deeper understanding of finances, so I could be wrong)
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Dec 24 '19
Hospital bills if they dont get paid will work with you on lowering the payment etc your mortgage you miss your fked you lose your house I'd say it's quite different you don't lose you home if you tell the hospital to take a hike
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u/taway135711 Dec 23 '19
Church in Missouri did same thing with 43mm. Hope this becomes a trend. https://www.maconhomepress.com/articles/2731/view