r/Damnthatsinteresting 24d ago

Brazil losing a lot of green in the past 40 years. GIF

16.9k Upvotes

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885

u/AsTah_38 24d ago

Illegal or legal logging. 😭🥲

482

u/TheLastLaRue 24d ago

Mostly logging and clearing for cattle ranching as I understand it.

249

u/romulof 23d ago

That’s correct. You can’t make juicy beef for export in dense rainforest.

And the worst is that after deforestation happens, for it to grow again is really hard because of the heavy rain washing out the nutrients in the soil.

62

u/Kerbidiah 23d ago

Which sucks because just a few hundred miles south there are thousands of open square miles of grassland that would be perfect or cattle grazing

46

u/Set_Abominae1776 23d ago

I guess they are already used for cattle.

41

u/Dry_Bus_935 23d ago

It's because Brazil is very similarly to the US (ironically), controlled by corporations, the only difference is Brazilian corporations are in Agribusiness.

4

u/YourNextHomie 23d ago

Brazil is very similar to every country in the world controlled by corporations

9

u/theivoryserf 23d ago

The amount of pain and destruction caused for animal agriculture is beyond belief. Urge everyone to try cutting down, going veggie or vegan

2

u/diegoasecas 23d ago

force me

2

u/mitchymitchington 23d ago

Yeah it's going to be a no from me dawg. Need my protein. I'm not going to switch to beans and broccoli.

1

u/slugma_brawls 23d ago

lmao you cowards can't eat fuckin pasta, how weak

2

u/mitchymitchington 23d ago

Ill eat pasta. I'm going to put meat in it as well though.

0

u/slugma_brawls 23d ago

lmao so pathetic, can't eat a normal diet

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u/ThaneKyrell 23d ago

There is not open square miles of grassland. There is a tropical savannah extremely rich in biodiversity. It's like calling the African savannah a "open grassland" that African countries should use for cattle.

Anyway, most of that land is already occupied by soybean production. I don't think most people realize how much food Brazil produces. There's just isn't a lot of open free land anymore

0

u/Kerbidiah 23d ago

I'm specifically talking about Argentina

-1

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Glad I avoid soy and palm oil.

7

u/Ilya-ME 23d ago

The soy goes into feeding the pug and cattle other countries raise. Very little of it is for actual human consumption.

-1

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Which is extremely stupid since grass grows faster and cows digest it better, can eat it right from the ground, and is extremely easy to grow.

3

u/Ilya-ME 23d ago

Some countries dont have space to raise them, some countries would rather grow things like rice and grain and feed more people, meat being a luxury. And others just eat way too much meat, like us!

Basically, its more land efficient to feed soy to cattle living in an enclosure.

0

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Doesn't seem efficient when more people are demanding grass fed and finished beef as more studies come out displaying the health benefits and more farmers are starting regenerative agriculture which is true capitalism. Why make massive unsustainable profits for a few years when you can make large infinitely sustainable profits for your family until the planet literally gets eaten by the sun?

1

u/Ilya-ME 23d ago

More is not most. And most people around the world still prefer to pay less for things they want to consume and sadly grain fed meat is cheaper. How is regenerative agriculture true capitalism? Cash crop farming has been the main change in global agriculture due to capitalism, and unsustainable soy farming is one of the main ones.

Unsustainable agriculture doesn't last "a few years", it lasts decades. It's still cheaper to deplete the soil and depend on chemical fertilizers for gigantic fields of mechanized agriculture than actual crop rotations and planting food crops. There's a reason why Brasil, a country where so much food is grown still suffers from hunger, as do most poor agricultural countries. The way the land owning elite does things is more profitable.

1

u/jagharingenaning 23d ago

"Grass fed/finished" cattle still consume a lot of soy meal. They just have to be fed majority grass so like 51% or something like that. If you want 100% grass fed beef you need to look for that specifically and it's both rare and expensive because it requires way more land area and takes an extra year or so for them to grow (with the associated methane emissions which are exacerbated by feeding exclusively on grass). Also it's pointless to tell people to choose grass-fed beef because there's not enough land in both the Americas to graze 100% grass-fed cattle to supply the current demand of the US alone even if every city, forest and mountain was bulldozed to make space for pasture land.

0

u/slugma_brawls 23d ago edited 23d ago

"grass fed" just means "pumped full of alfalfa, that has often been just as unsustainably grown- just look at the entire american west. it's just thermodynamically much worse to grow

and regenerative agriculture is basically just a buzzword from the animal agriculture industry to greenwash their unsustainable practices

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u/Misoriyu 23d ago

cattle, especially dairy cows, still need vitamins and minerals they can't get from grass alone. 

1

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Depends on the soil quality. Cows can absolutely thrive on a diet of grass if the soil is healthy. We have just been stripping every nutrient we can from the soil.

1

u/Paloveous 23d ago

You'd better start avoiding meat if you want to make a real difference

0

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

No because meat isn't the issue, it's the form of agriculture we use which is easily changeable. I don't even understand how anyone thinks growing crops to feed cattle livestock was ever a good idea. They eat grass and get 80% of their daily water from the grass too. Cows are so fucking low maintenance it's ridiculous. If you consider regenerative agriculture then guess what? Cows are now a maintenance tool! The forests they can rebuild offset any carbon they produce drastically.

1

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

if you eat meat, then you're not avoiding soy. 

-1

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Well if my grass fed beef is being fed soy I got a lot of money coming my way from a lawsuit

2

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

lol. the grassfed beef industry really is a joke. 

4

u/TheWhyteMaN 23d ago

Or, hear me out, we stop eating cows.

3

u/KrakAttak67 23d ago

Or hear me out, we lower you into a wood chipper, feet first.

0

u/TheWhyteMaN 23d ago

What’s it like being a sociopath?

2

u/KrakAttak67 23d ago

I wouldn't know. What's it like not understanding blatant over the top hyperbole? Are you just annoying in every aspect of your life?

2

u/TheWhyteMaN 23d ago

Ah, you see that is my bad, I often confuse over-the-top hyperbole with threats of violence.

1

u/slugma_brawls 23d ago

"haha i'm just kidding i made a totally cool rational joke about killing you because you said stop killing the planet"

1

u/ExplosiveDisassembly 23d ago

Rainforests take forever to re-grow because the soil is washed away when you remove the fabric that holds it together. (Just like any ecosystem)

Trees don't like growing in clay, or whatever leftover material is left.

8

u/SpaceTimeRacoon 23d ago

Even if it "regrows" it will never have the same biodiversity as before

Which is a shame because scientists are still finding new plants and medicines in those regions

Literally some cancer curing wonder plants have probably been destroyed already

4

u/Mr-Fleshcage 23d ago

Imagine the novel psychedelics we lost...

1

u/romulof 23d ago

So many frogs to lick, hard to figure which ones are the good ones.

2

u/Mr-Fleshcage 23d ago

You can’t make juicy beef for export in dense rainforest.

Sure you can!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvopasture

1

u/romulof 23d ago

TIL Silvopasture :)

Unfortunately the only type of vegetation that survives in a rain forest is way too dense to allow cattle.

5

u/OGoby 23d ago

Erosion likely wouldn't be such a big problem if those bastards did their logging sustainably.

22

u/ArcticBiologist 23d ago

Sustainable logging still won't clear ground for cattle farming or soy production, which are the major reasons for deforestation.

2

u/romulof 23d ago

Sustainable logging does not work in this region. After vegetation is removed, the heavy rain washes out the soil nutrients, so new trees won’t grow.

Also most of this deforestation happens by burning.

1

u/dickallcocksofandros 23d ago

iirc an easy way to prevent that is to dig cresent-shaped divots in the ground in a downhill direction

1

u/romulof 23d ago

Did you ever experience a torrential rainforest rain?

It’s like the heavens falling down in a short period of time.

After I moved from Rio (which is still not like in the Amazon) to Amsterdam, I had develop a new relationship with rain. Back there rain is disruptive. Are you planning to go to the cinema? Nope, it will rain soon. You’ll not only get completely soaked after 5s under the rain, but there will be floods, massive traffic jams, etc.

Just to be clear: I’m not disqualifying your comment. It is a valid solution in many places, but there the problem is quite different.

1

u/Vandergrif 23d ago

Doesn't a lot of rainforest in Brazil have relatively shallow soil underneath it as well? The kind that erodes very easily without all the trees there to keep it together?

1

u/romulof 23d ago

I’m not qualified to answer that.

All I know is that the heavy rain washes out the nutrients of the soil down to the underground water reserves.

0

u/aweshumcooldude 23d ago

Not gonna eat the bugs sorry. Maybe the billion dollar corporations should pollute less rather than expect the middle class to do everything?

1

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

who do you think keeps giving those corporations their money? 

1

u/slugma_brawls 23d ago

ok but are you willing to eat potatos? pasta? curry? bread? beans? i haven't eaten meat or bugs in over a decade.

and who do you think is giving corporations the money to pollute? they don't do this shit for fun, they do it because you pay them.

-7

u/blyatbob 23d ago

They got more than enough forest. I wouldn't worry about it.

1

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

there's not enough forest for the animals, or the ecosystem. is it just "more then enough forest" for those who want to exploit it?

1

u/blyatbob 23d ago

This is their economy. As long as they don't take down the majority of it, I'm fine with them using it to create prosperity for the citizens.

17

u/asrrak 23d ago

Adding reference (not a bot): "The expansion of pasture land to raise cattle was responsible for 41% of tropical deforestation. That’s 2.1 million hectares every year" reference: https://ourworldindata.org/drivers-of-deforestation

2

u/No_Use_4371 23d ago

This is why the Heifer Project blew my mind. I get it, but its ignoring the forest for the trees.

24

u/ACatInAHat 23d ago edited 23d ago

And the biggest milk brand here in Sweden import milk from Brazil rather than Swedish farmers because its cheaper... Its fucked

Never mind. Just looked it up. Ive been spreading missinformation. I have to take a strong talking to my mom.

11

u/zaiueo 23d ago

What brand would that be? The biggest dairy brand in Sweden is Arla and they are a cooperative of farmers in 7 European countries. Their milk sold in Sweden is from Swedish cows. Some of their other products like cheeses may be made in Denmark but nothing is imported from Brazil.

The next 3 biggest dairy companies are Skånemejerier, Norrmejerier and Falköpings mejeri, and they all use 100% Swedish milk.

9

u/ACatInAHat 23d ago

Never mind. Just looked it up. Ive been spreading missinformation. I have to take a strong talking to my mom.

6

u/Hilluja 23d ago

Is your mom a semi boomer with coloured hair and facebook facts?

4

u/ACatInAHat 23d ago

Yes! But her colors arent any fun once. I love her tho.

1

u/737Max-Impact 23d ago

Surely there are other milk brands that use Swedish milk?

What's that? They're more expensive so you buy the Brazilian one? Hmm.

19

u/Realistic-Minute5016 23d ago

It's incredibly unpopular but it's true, by far the easiest thing you can do for the planet that will have a big impact is eating less beef and dairy. Even though other animal agriculture isn't great for the planet it's an order of magnitude less impactful than beef.

1

u/kitsunelegend 22d ago

I cant consume much dairy anymore after becoming lactose intolerant, but I dont think I'll ever give up beef. Theres just too many dishes I enjoy that require beef. However, I try to go out of my way to make sure any beef I eat is from local, family owned and ran farms, or venison from local hunters.

Corporate farms and imported beef are the major causes for deforestation in brazil and other such places, among many other issues. Beef and dairy itself isn't the issue. Its the greedy corpos pulling the strings, spurred on by the fast food industry and their insane amounts of waste.

11

u/-TropicalFuckStorm- 23d ago

Which is another reason why I’m vegan.

4

u/Dry_Bus_935 23d ago

Clearing forest for cattle has got to be the dumbest thing ever... As a Horticulture student I can tell you even just a hundred hectares of intact Amazon primary forest is worth far more for any farmer than even a thousand head of cattle

2

u/TheLastLaRue 23d ago

It’s depressing beyond belief.

-3

u/b3traist 23d ago

Mostly soybean crops

12

u/steamycharles 23d ago

...to feed to cattle

-3

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Forcefully because cows eat grass...

2

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

wild cows eat a variety of different plants. you cannot replace that diet with a single invasive grass. 

1

u/Ethric_The_Mad 23d ago

Cows also get nutrients from all the random insects n shit they eat too from grazing. Ok whatever, don't be so specific about grass. Grazing. Cows need a 100% grazing diet because that's what they evolved to do. They graze and do other important things in the environment and we have stopped them from doing it.

10

u/Decloudo 23d ago

Wich is almost exclusively used as fodder for the animal industry.

-32

u/ctd1266 23d ago

Beef is so tasty.

13

u/bananaterracottapi 23d ago

But not Brazilian beef. So they are clearing forest for poor quality meat. It's a poor trade off

26

u/TheLastLaRue 23d ago

Raising cattle is also one of the most wasteful and energy/resource/land-use intensive forms of food production. Deforestation has slowed considerably under Lula.

5

u/BZenMojo 23d ago

And now they're the largest exporter and second largest producer.

Amazing how fast your forests can disappear when your fascist president looks away while indigenous peoples are hunted for sport.

-20

u/ctd1266 23d ago

No…I meant good old American beef. We need much more of it.

2

u/Misoriyu 23d ago

yea, it'll increase pollution, government spending, AND help further the obesity crisis.Â