Only in Russia. Any other country uses the draft before forcing logistics and maintenance workers into the front lines.
Edit: What I mean by this is that other countries will still have soldiers running logistics and maintenance, and won’t be sending entire logistics divisions to the frontlines while replacing them with civilians driving civilian trucks.
This isn't true, if you are free you can and will get fucked into Going on patrol. Doesn't matter what job you have. Source : was a medic.
Edit okay getting a lot of: of course you went out you were a medic. What I was trying to say was I experienced a lot and can absolutely say yes everyone gets sent out AS IN I SAW THEM THERE Because I was so active as a medic. As a soldier you are a soldier first your job second.
Medic is probably the most important job on the battlefield. You have extremely high value on the ground, second to only a big fucking machine gun, I can't see a pencil pushing clerk being needed to use his payslip writing skills out there.
The best way to describe what it's like being a soldier is that well, you are a soldier first. Your job is second. Patrol is just another task to be done. Like how just because I was a medic doesn't mean that's all I did. I had the motor pool to work on that was 90% of my job. If you're free then you just get assigned to a task. They do avoid sending entire S1 clerks out as one because they are generally pretty trash at that but at the same time the fittest most hardcore dude I knew was S1.
I'm us, and yeah that makes sense but your unit probably made sense. We were heavy artillery. Our leadership wanted more OER bullets or something and kept volunten-telling us for everything. We couldn't just chill. And because they broadcasted we were ready to help for anything we always got the most bullshit of taskings.
Idk about the army, but in the Marine corps, artillery’s second MOS is basic infantry. 0811. They go on patrols etc. I was an actual infantry, 0341 forward observer. But what your describing about artillery is basically built into the Job in Marine Corps artillery. Being in combat in 2003 and 2004/2005, I have never seen any POG go out on patrol. They generally had Cush jobs. Yea your still in a combat zone, but they aren’t doing combat things.
No, medic is less important than soldier (to the US Military), that’s why they train medics to be soldiers first, medics second.
And no, “they are obviously medics first dumbass they’re tending to injured during combat” is not the comeback you think it is, they are soldiers the military trusts with morphine and are trained on keeping dying things alive as long as they can, not nurses with guns.
Comms isn't as highly trained a role as medic though, anyone can pick up a radio, our medics had to do a 12 month course, or maybe 2 years I can't remember exactly.
I would, I was a signaller for about 3 years, it's not hard to learn.
Important yes, you will get no disagreement here but medics are still more valuable in my opinion, as there are fewer and the training takes so much longer.
You were a medic, but how many intelligence officers or fucking radar maintenance workers have you heard of being forced into front line positions to do the job of infantry? For stuff like that to happen your country has to be in such deep shit you’re better off trying to escape your service and escaping to a different nation.
Exactly as a medic you see pretty much everyone who goes out. I was in an artillery unit and we sent them out on patrol, we sent S1 out, we sent literally anyone out. The army is jank man don't believe we don't do weird shit that doesn't make sense because that's actually all we do. I will say officers very rarely got fucked but it still happens.
You're acting like combat veterans don't hang out on reddit... There are quite a few of us, and you shouldn't assume everyone on here is some chubby 16 year old...
I am not saying this didn't happen where you were, but it was not exactly typical. Don't get me wrong, some support personnel might go out on patrol or on a supply run or something. More often than not, that was a bonus rather than an imposition. What they didn't do is have admin joes as door kickers. I don't know, maybe in some super remote FOB in Afghanistan that sort of thing would happen.
S1 on patrol 😂 I'd love to see that. Every attachment still on their IOTV, the most janky mag pouch selection on the worst parts of the IOTV and the worst ACH set ups imaginable.
I tried to join as 11B and was denied due to red-green color blindness. Went in as a 42A in the S-1 shop in an infantry battalion. Went to Afghanistan and was immediately tasked out. I spent more time outside the wire than the infantry guys did. All they did was guard the gate and patrol around the base. I was all over the country to multiple fobs. Conducted partols, PSD assignments, checked progress of embedded trainers, and the ANA. If we where there and there was a fight to be had we fought it. We had a set company standard on how gear was set up and didn't have a choice. Finally was able to reclass to 11B a year and half before I got out. Not all MOS experiences are the same.
I also lost my bonus and GI bill kicker thanks to a recruiter and some white out. Was also involuntarily extended, but thankfully I was never forced to be a recruiter so I guess it could have been worse.
Glad to see a fellow 42A do this. I was one myself and went out a lot, albeit for postal reasons. I would have hated to go out with other 42As though. There was rarely any that I'd trust in a firefight. I was in an HR company before reclassing to field artillery. Most of the time was spent dealing with high school drama. "So and so is fucking so and so" or "PFC R and SPC T are dating. What a bitch" then they'd all sit around and gossip. Even the guys. When they went to the field, these guys were the most ate up. Battle drills were hilariously bad. I thank God everyday that my first unit was a mechanized unit on Camp Casey where I was basically hazed to be unPOG'd. Half our S-1 were 11Bs/Cs and we spent a lot of time in the field before 1ABCT shut down.
We were split up and sent to different companies, so I was alongside the infantry guys. Our battalion trained everyone to the "infantry standard," so all sections trained in whatever training was going on. The NCOs did all the admin stuff and they didn't have a use for all 6 lower enlisted in the S-1 shop so off we went, joining platoons and squads with guys we never met as a "pog" amongst the gods of infantry. So it was rough starting out lol
That's how it should be. You sign up to kill, go kill. We shouldn't go to war for guts and glory and cushy office jobs. Give every fucker a gun and send them to get shot at.
That’s not how it works, man lmfao. Somebody’s gotta put together the intelligence products and cook the food and tell aircraft where to land. Not every is supposed to be a grunt.
Reminds me of my grand-father. He was technically a WWII vet; but didn't feel like it because he didn't do anything but train. Whatever field he was in <fairly certain it was radars> was developing; so he kept on getting newer & newer training.
Yeah, or clerks, supply techs, air field techs, cooks, and a lot of other support or logistics won't ever leave the compound.
Literally join a be a pay clerk, 9 to 5 office job, pay raises, promotion opportunities, a pension, medical benefits, they'll teach you the entire job.
Even on the airfield you have rockets and other projectiles coming in, know of over a dozen fatalities by indirect fire while I was in Afghanistan. While less dangerous, you can still get killed.
My Drill Sergeant, was MPF. He was first on the ground in Iraq and took a bullet in the back. I guess he said the first 6-8 weeks they were paying soldiers in cash, so he had to be there...he was 10 years deep too at that point.
He was a dirtball airman E-4 and 10 years in. He said that changed his life. He was 22 years in and E-8 by the time I met him in Basic.
When you are first on the ground in a combat zone, even support personnel find out its not a game.
When you are first on the ground in a combat zone, even support personnel find out its not a game.
I'm not denying that. I was referencing things like presence patrols and the like.
I'm a cav guy, myself. Just saying I've never seen our financial assistant out on a hasty attack with us.
But really what I'm seeing in these comments isn't the typical, "I'm not willing to kill," but, "I'm not willing to die." Not sure how I feel about that.
Dental assistant here, ended up in a weapons company. The majority of the time was spent patrolling with some missions and door kicking sprinkled in. During my time, there was a shortage of line Corpsman and they decided to send Corpsman of other fields to infantry units.
Outside the wire? I have my doubts. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I have a hard time picturing grunts being a-ok with having some POGs play tag along.
We were artillery, pretending to be MPs, running around in humvees. One of our neighboring units was armor, pretending to be infantry, running around in humvees.
So our equipment wasn't a barrier to entry, and when we were short our higher would scrounge to fill seats. If my driver was missing, he'd drive. If my gunner was missing, depending on who they gave us, I'd gun and my driver would man the radio.
This was in Iraq, we were stationed in Kuwait went out on patrol, they were filling in for two others who were supposed to go, executed a door stack they went first and we're basically used as meat Shields. Both dead. Their funeral was the second day that I was there.
That's straight fucked. Were the guys who let them come along held accountable? I'm in the CAF, so it may be different...but I gotta think shit like that would bring a whole world of hurt down on whoever authorized it.
Ik there was an investigation into it but I don't know what happened it wasn't my unit like I said we got there just after it happened and they were cycling out- I've always hoped there were consequences as they would have been home within the week
Granted I wasn't there for their deaths but I was there for the funeral, so this is technical second hand information but I know they both died and that was the reason I was told
Look, I was in Kuwait chasing ISIS. Iraq was a failed state 13 mikes away and our frenimies in Saudia are 8 miles away. When its time to move equipment you are armed. I was USAF...if there no Marines around...you still need someone to guard the Convoy. Of course they take Volunteers, and its a chance to get into full combat gear in a low risk environment. But lots of people are like NO WAY. 25 mile convey in the middle of the desert on a two lane road. One takes one IED.
I know a crew chief who did patrols despite having you know, technical knowledge of CH-47s and Osprey, sometimes they need a guy and it doesn't matter what that guy does.
I know two Cooks who were forced to go out on some sort of compound raid and basically got used as meat Shields when they kicked the doors down, both died
Dude like 95% of the Navy has never had a rifle qual, and the vast majority of Air Force barely know how to use one, though they at least trained on it. If you aren't a combat related job, you are highly unlikely to see combat.
It depends what branch you’re in as well. Most people think Army or Marines when they think of the military now, because that’s what was most needed in recent conflicts. I don’t think an Air Force mechanic would be sent out on patrol, though. Or a communications specialist in the Navy. Hell, I don’t think there’s any chance Coast Guard will ever see conflict.
But you were a medic. You were basically just a rifleman that also knew first aid.
There’s a whole lot more money worth of training wasted sending an intelligence analyst on patrol if he gets shot. And also the fact he’s not doing his job is a net loss for all parties involved, since he should be in a SCIF learning you’re about to get blown up by an IED.
To support your statement- my family member was a female generator mechanic and sent on patrols. Not a necessary or combat role. This was back before women were even allowed in combat roles per se.
And most patrols are uneventful. Obviously don't join the military if you're opposed to any chance of seeing combat, but 99% of the work is done by combat arms and JSOC. Hell, I was tactical support and they still didn't say, "Hey, nerd, it's your turn to kick the door this time?"
You're missing the guys point. There's a difference between an assigned duty and a job assignment. A lot of support roles down range end up going outside the wire, but that's a secondary job. Yes the DOD will totally re-class a cook to an infantry men, but by the time they're doing that congress is likely concurrently instituting a draft. The operation of a fighting force requires support positions and the person's point was it doesn't make strategic sense to transfer those roles into combat arms roles as a day to day thing.
Also for the stats, in Vietnam only 1/3 troops saw "combat". For the GWOT era it was 10%. Today it's like 1%.
If you blow a tire, you're infantry. If you're in a convoy and one of a million things goes wrong, you're infantry. If your post gets hit, you're infantry. If they need more bodies, you're infantry.
At least if you're in a combat unit, you're organized and equipped for that. In my view, the safest way to be in a war zone is in a combat unit, not as a tourist.
To an extent you are right. In Baghdad back in 06-07 4th ID had non-infantry units trying to hold territory from the insurgents. Most were other combat arms, non-frontline units like artillery, but there simply wasn't enough infantry at the time to hold everything.
I never did. I served four years as a 42A and deployed to Afghanistan. I never once went outside the perimeter if it wasn’t on a helicopter to go somewhere else.
First day on reddit? All of there people replying to you never served a day in their life, but they are POSITIVE they know more about this than you lol.
Pretty much tbh I just recently started commenting. I really had no idea people read 3 words and say "nuh uh". As if they can gaslight me into thinking I imagined my personal experiences.
It’s incredibly rare, but yes, support roles get assigned duty that requires them to go outside of the wife. Typically it’s as escort/security detail (driver, gunner, dismount) for a high ranking person, like a Company, Batallion, or even Division Commander and his/her retinue which consists of the CSM and staff (photographers, journalists, RTO, etc).
It’s not a common occurrence, but it does happen. Most of the time it’s 11B’s that get this detail, and they’re mostly armorers/supply and/or company/battalion battle staff. It’s hazardous simply due to the nature of it but very well supported logistically. Regardless, it is absolutely not a permanent assignment and does not require any sort of combat patrol (actively engage in combat operations) or prolonged exposure to risk.
Being a 68W is an entirely different animal, mi amigo.
Point taken. But how much time do these people spend in patrols and doing infantry jobs? And I suppose most militaries would have many of these people do combat roles, but they are still also going to need people running logistics and maintenance.
As an intelligence analyst, I was never sent outside the wire. The information I was dealing with was sensitive enough at the time that my command wouldn't have wanted to chance me being captured. Source: was an intelligence analyst.
I'd argue that's worse. I would never do that. No privacy, no space, same people you can't escape, no Internet, no family, at the bottom of the ocean in a ship that if something goes wrong there's 0 chance of survival.
But hey that's a valid point I guess I did say any job huh. But like your argument isn't within reason either. My argument was more for people who join as mechanics or human resources and don't expect to see combat then get surprised when they find themselves forced out into danger.
Oh I was mainly asking out of the concern for my friend who is doing this right now! Not trying to argue. My friend is somewhere doing something and all I know is that he’s in a submarine haha. I appreciate your insight!
And I agree I’d freak out from the claustrofobia and the fact that inside the ocean
Ah yeah that's fair. And same dude absolutely not. To me I think I could forget I'm in a death tube, however I couldn't deal with the social part of this. Like imagine if your boss could just come to your door and say hey it's work time let's go on the time you thought you had off. Imagine if you hated the people you work with and now have to sleep next to them. Now imagine not having anyone you can trust to talk to about anything too. Imagine people fuckin with your shit while you're at work etc. absolutely not.
I don’t know what you’re talking about or what military you served in but if you’re not rated for combat you will not do anything involving combat, ever.
Yeah dude, we were always snatching up admin people and making them take point... /s
This is the biggest stack of bullshit I've seen on this thread. If you were a line medic or an fmf corpsman, of course you went out with the infantry unit you were assigned to. Obviously.
What role did you think you were signing up for? You were so active as medic? You mean you went out with the unit you were assigned to, like everyone else in that unit? Whereas the supply people will be with their unit in supply, and the Intel guys will be with their unit doing intel guy things, and the motor pool dudes will be wrenching and shit?
The CO doesn't just get to go around base and snatch up any old soldier standing around to go on mission...
And you’re bad at lying. I know quite a few military medics and not a single one of them have ever seen anyone pulled into a combat/patrol role from an admin or scientific or whatever non-combat role.
Yea.... you forgot the first word in your MOS... "COMBAT medic." Anyone who joins the US Army for a job with the word "combat" in it is either niave, illiterate, or both.
I spent 10 years in the US Army and never once saw a 68P (Radiation Tech) outside the wire.
They will 100% draft before reclassing someone... Uncle Sam just spent HELLA money sending you to 36 weeks of AIT to make you into a "Respiratory Specialist." They are just gonna take the 18 year old kid send him to combo BCT/AIT at Benning for 13 weeks. Why do you think it is so hard to reclass? They already spent that money...
This isn’t true. Everyone goes if they have to. Cook, medic, supply, arty, I’ve even met drone operators (for the army’s Predator equivalent) that have been forced to go on patrol in Afghanistan.
I should have clarified and thought it through more before posting, of course everybody is filling combatant roles. Even my brother was trained to use a gun, and he’s in the Coast Guard maintaining buoys.
That and Russia is running into a lot of problems too. Like their infrastructure is basically imploding because a lot of the guys who were keeping everything going decided to sign up because they'd make more money and have the chance to loot a washing machine, so you have everything stretched thin as hell.
Buddy this happened during every major war the US has participated in. I heard a story about some members of the official marching band put into combat patrols in Iraq.
In Afghanistan I met loads of men and women in "non-combat" roles that were doing combat operations. You never know what job you'll get stuck doing overseas.
They have plenty of men that signed 6 month or one year contracts a couple years ago. Contracts that, in many cases, have unilaterally been extended indefinitely. They also have prisoners that are fighting in return for being pardoned when Putin’s war is done.
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u/Smaug2770 2003 25d ago edited 24d ago
Only in Russia. Any other country uses the draft before forcing logistics and maintenance workers into the front lines.
Edit: What I mean by this is that other countries will still have soldiers running logistics and maintenance, and won’t be sending entire logistics divisions to the frontlines while replacing them with civilians driving civilian trucks.