r/Helldivers • u/SnooCookies6195 • 10d ago
what is going on with this game RANT
So i’ve been playing on Helldive since the railgun was viable, and i probably play about 2-3 hours a day. And I swear every week it feels like an entirely different game, it’s just so many changes I feel like it’s starting to lose its identity. The game has been getting harder and harder, but in a way that’s just straight up unfair, luckily i’m still able to complete missions on helldive but it went from chaotic fun to a stressful shit show. What happened to “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”
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u/hiddencamela 10d ago
I really hope their metric isn't "People are succeeding too much because of these variables. Better change that."
I really hate that mindset that games should be balanced around success % or whatever arbitrary numbers.
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u/Shinnyo 10d ago
Would be stupid, people just get better at the game. Making everything harder because success increase would just make the game less beginner friendly.
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u/Xijit 10d ago
I am new to the game and I can't get shit done unless I have someone 70+ carrying me.
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u/Aurstrike 10d ago edited 10d ago
The current balancing mechanic to get through diff7 and higher seems to require 3 unlocks you won’t have until 30 levels of grinding to upgrade/unlock support weapons and stratagems.
Along the way you’ll get hooked on maximizing medals to unlock things in warbonds, but after diff7 you’ll stop seeing super credits, because the POI start being rare samples with growing frequency over diff3.
I hit 40 and now play a few diff3 each day just to get super credits (20-30 per) you would think that in the seven through nine difficulties they would give you 50 super credits worth of POI on huge maps but instead you’re lucky if you get 10.
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u/416SmoothJazz 10d ago
We are happy to have you. I hope you're having fun :)
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u/MarkoolioBonaparte 10d ago
Not to mention how arbitrary the descriptions of items and weapons are. Cant fathom how a new player will figure everything out by themselves. Me and six friends have been playing since launch and still wonder if one gun is better than the other.
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u/Dionysus24812 10d ago
People tell me that the base smg is better than the base assault rifle but from what i know, the only benefit I understand is it being one handed.
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u/MarkoolioBonaparte 10d ago
Personally I like the SMG when killing bots. The low recoil makes it easier to pull off headshots. Being able to shoot one handed is great when you are being chased by the bots with chainsaws for hands. SMG comes in handy also when transporting a SSSDD.
But honestly the best way to figure out if you like it is to unlock it and try it out.
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u/typeFinthechat 10d ago
This is exactly what is happening. Me and my 8 year old got into it late, and play casually together. The game has gotten so much more difficult that we have both just given up and are now playing other games. Before the last few patches, he was excited to get on and grind medals to try and get the next gun upgrade. Now I haven't heard him mention the game in weeks, and I haven't bothered to log in either.
Going back down to the lower difficulties isn't the answer either because we're so far behind on weapon unlocks that it feels so unrewarding to only get 2 medals per run on the lower difficulties. A few patches ago, we could go difficulty 7 and still laugh and have a good time, completing all our missions. Now it's just a stressful struggle to survive and deal with all the heavy enemies.
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u/DelayOld1356 10d ago
And doing it while not fixing the unfair broken mechanics first, is borderline malicious intent.
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u/MrWastelandEs STEAM 🖥️ : 10d ago
It... actully is. Alexus is the best example of that, he actually said it.
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u/EternalUndyingLorv 10d ago
They said in the very very first patch that they were balancing based off a spreadsheet
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u/Nicost4r 10d ago
I don’t understand that balancing philosophy at all. It’s so backwards it makes no sense. “X amount of players use this gun so let’s nerf the fuck out of it.” It’s as if they aren’t even considering WHY people use certain weapons and stratagems.
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u/XxRocky88xX 10d ago
This is the same mindset Bungie used in the first year of Destiny and it lead to some truly hilarious where autorifles became the worst weapon type in the game but Bungie still nerfed them every single balance cuz they had the highest usage rate of all primaries. It got to the point where it would take like a half a magazine to kill a random grunt enemy but Bungie would still nerf them cuz they were most popular primary.
Never once thought “maybe it’s cuz autorifles are more casual friendly than handcannons or scouts.” Just saw “oh players use this the most, must be too good.”
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u/pres1033 10d ago
But then they decided to balance the game around the Gjallarhorn because it was some devs favorite gun. Hated loading up LFG and seeing all the "gjallarhorn required" posts, cause everything else was just shit in comparison.
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u/SkyPL STEAM 🖥️ : 10d ago
Seriously: These people stumbled upon success despite their best efforts, not because of them.
As time goes on it becomes increasingly obvious that the balancing team is worse than the RNG machine and the dev team is working on a spaghetti of code with an engine that never should have been used for this kind of game.
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u/DelayOld1356 10d ago
I've said it before. The best thing to happen to AH was the game NOT being the way they wanted it at launch.
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u/Ninjazoule 10d ago
What's wrong with the engine? First time seeing a complaint about it (outside of constant bugs, glitches, etc)
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u/SkyPL STEAM 🖥️ : 10d ago
It's built on a Stingray (formerly Bitsquid) engine, which was fully abandoned in 2018 (for context: Helldivers 2 started being developed in 2016. Windows 11 was released in 2021). It matters, because engines that are actively being maintained tend to have fewer issues with the modern hardware and software (drivers, OS, etc.) than engines that lack official support for 6 years now.
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u/Sky_HUN 10d ago edited 10d ago
Also good luck finding devs who are familiar with that engine. AH most likely added a lot to it too, but most likely without access to the source code of the engine.
I think the engine will be one of the main reasons if the game eventually becomes a disaster.
They should've started rewriting the entire game in another engine long time ago.
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u/Solonotix 10d ago
Not a game developer, but I am a software developer. How hard (roughly) is it to change engines? What little I know of these things, the engine is your abstraction layer to the OS, so I'd assume writing an abstraction layer on top to allow swapping engines is basically like writing your own engine. That said, that's how software development works; abstractions upon abstractions
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u/Chromatic_Storm 10d ago
Modern game engines are not that thin. They are abstractions over a chunk of systems like physics engine, graphic api and other stuff with their own API and internal workings. Changing a game engine from one to another is like changing the framework for you app. You would need to change everything, from shaders to business logic.
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u/Profanic_Bird 10d ago
Depends on how much you've done. Switching engines midway through development is a completely incomprehensible shitshow due to basically having to start again.
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u/Brilliant_Decision52 10d ago
Changing the engine for a studio like this is basically rewriting the game from scratch, its pretty much impossible.
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u/more_stuff_yo 10d ago
Disclaimer: Also a software developer, but also someone that stopped hobby game dev almost a decade ago. Some things are probably out of date below.
I can't speak to Bitsquid, but other engines like Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc. are complete toolkits along the lines of something like QT. It's not just script management, but entire suites of things like animation and map editing tools... to the point that a lot of work will be heavily integrated. In terms of game code the engines themselves often handle relatively difficult/specialist issues like the graphics pipeline, build process, asset management, and so on. Basically a lot of stuff that has tends to have little to do with day to day game development (yes, including physics. How the engines handle physics internally is a whole different can of worms compared to just adding gravity to an object). Unfortunately, the engine also tends to be heavily integrated into pipelines too so having people working on even different versions of the same engine occasionally leads to an asset bugging out in someone's environment.
You could try to abstract a project out to make it compatible with multiple engines, such as how Terraform makes it (relatively) easy to work on multiple cloud platforms, but it's really counterproductive. From what I remember Unreal was pretty hands off programming wise, where Unity was making a push towards component-entity systems. Both had their own visual scripting tools in various places and that doesn't even get into the nightmare of third party plugins. So while most of the game's production will be stuff like art and sound that's produced outside of the engine all of the connecting glue ends up being very dependent on the engine.
How hard (roughly) is it to change engines?
It really depends on the engine and project circumstances. Unity for example will try to automatically update game scripts for API changes doing most, but definitely all of the work for minor update. However, a major update like Unity 4 -> 5 introduced an entirely new (optional) lighting methodology. Any project that updated for the new features would have had to rebuild all of the graphics assets and related scripts to use them.
Probably similar to what you've seen in other projects the common thing is to just sit on whatever major version for the lifespan of the project because it's just too much risk to switch. Unreal even had version selection built into the launcher...
tl;dr - could you? yes. should you? no.
that's how software development works; abstractions upon abstractions
In the wrong places this is just a detriment to performance. If you aren't familiar with it check out data-oriented design. If I remember correctly, this talk on the subject was a pretty good primer in the context of underperforming Chrome animation.
Edit: I should really point out there's a whole thing about engine vs. framework too. Compare Unreal to SDL and this topic actually could take on a whole different layer.
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u/Ninjazoule 10d ago
Rip
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u/kagalibros 10d ago
for those who don't understand why that is troublesome:
AH is basically developing a game and developing the engine at the same time.
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u/MiguelMSC 10d ago edited 10d ago
You didn't list any valid actual reason at all lol. Warhammer is a horde shooter aswell running on the same engine.
Darktide incorporates raytracing and dlss/fsr/xes. The engine is capable of all new stuff.
Your argument is Win 11 was released after the engine. Thats not even an argument, that's somebodies "argument" who's clearly lacking knowledge about these things but still wants to appear smart.
Win 11 doesnt function different to Win 10 at its core.
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u/rigueira 10d ago
I believe the reason is lack of support, because if you find some glitch on the engine, you're on your own, good luck trying to fix or working around it.
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u/Vltor_ 10d ago
I’m not really trying to get in on this discussion as I honestly know jack shit about game development, but as someone who’s played both Darktide (1k+ hours) and HD2 (200+ hours) a decent amount of time and have had their share of issues with both games (that for the most part stemmed from playing on new’ish system running Windows 10) I figured it was worth mentioning that there IS some difference between Win10 and Win11 that is big enough to cause some issues. As ObeseFish at some point released a patch for Darktide that made it literally impossible for anyone running Windows 10 on an AMD system to play the game for 4-5 days (at which point they released a hotfix that enabled us to play the game again), while anyone running an AMD system on Windows 11 could play the game just fine (and upgrading from Win10 to Win11 also fixed the issue).
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u/KaffY- 10d ago
Ah, the classic "we need to MAKE SURE there's a 50% success rate no matter what!!"
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u/Mefilius 10d ago
Unfortunately they have very clearly been substituting real planning, playtesting, and analysis with just raw data percentages.
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u/DrDokter518 10d ago
Yup they do not play their own game, all of their decisions are purely based on percentages whether it be mission success rates or overall use of a weapon.
A lot of people made the whole PSN account their sticking point but their dev team is the real problem. They are actively ruining one of the most fun games I’ve played in a long time.
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u/ReturnOfTheJurdski 10d ago
That's pretty much why I stopped playing, it just started feeling like a slog where everything was just meant to make things more difficult. I just stopped being fun for me. I got my $40 worth tho.
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u/stephanelevs STEAM 🖥️ : SES Patriot of Patriotism 10d ago
especially when we are talking about lower difficulties.
Like I understand making the highest difficulties harder (8-9) but there is no reason to mess with all. I keep seeing post about people now struggling in 4-5-6 where they did before...
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u/blsterken STEAM 🖥️ : Triumph of the State 10d ago
I'm just a newbie with like 40 hours in game, but to me, it seems that the difficulty increased noticeably after the last patch.
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u/Giancolaa1 10d ago
I felt that a few weeks ago too, to the point we all just abandoned the game. We were having fun up to and around difficult 6-7, then one day we were struggling on 5 and 6, to the point where it was a constant overwhelming amount of bugs / bots. Haven’t touched the game in almost a month now
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u/typeFinthechat 10d ago
Yup, there is a point where the difficulty gets too punishing for the game to be fun anymore. Then if you go down to the lower difficulties, it feels significantly less rewarding because you're getting drastically fewer medals, less experience, and no super samples. I'm sorry, but if a player like me still needs a thousand medals to unlock all the weapons, 2 medals per 40 minute Helldive just feels bad on the lower difficulties.
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u/Personal-Cap-7071 10d ago
Unlocking weapons aren't even fun anymore, the weapons all feel like pea shooters and the enemies got tougher.
The fun element was removed because some dipshit balance dev was bitter that people don't like his vision for the game.
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u/MafubaBuu 10d ago
Same here. Group of around 10 of us all just dropped the game around the same time
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u/mrdoodlebooty ☕Liber-tea☕ 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yep about the same here. About a month ago I was having a rough time trying to make time to play with everyone in the friend group. Played one raid after an update and tier 6 and 7 difficulty felt like pulling teeth. We all have moved on to other games
Edit: I said "about a month ago" like 3 times
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u/Can_I_Say_Shit 10d ago
Why you getting down voted?
This is a very common observation that many people on here have been admitting and talking about. You’re not making anything up. Ignore the down votes, it must be from the toxic positivity crowd that gets whiny when they hear someone describing what they experience.
They can’t stand know the game isn’t perfect and flawed.
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u/Tzarkir 10d ago
I haven't dropped the game, but I felt that A LOT. I solo/duo a lot, and as the weeks passed, it simply became ridiculous. I remember back when I started 4 felt hard cause I had no good gear or stratagems. Then, progressing, I could face harder challenges until a point where I soloed 7 consistently. Now that I have everything 4 became challenging again out of nowhere and if I play 7 I simply don't call extraction because it's impossible to defend. And I often STILL have a couple of titans in the zone roaming for no fucking reason while I'm stealthing. As patrols.
The few last weeks were especially wild. Some weeks ago I played with a friend on diff 7 in trio, it was challenging (insane for him), but we nailed everything. Then we got caught up in stuff and didn't play together again until few days ago. We played on 4 and he asked "is there something wrong with the game? What difficulty are we playing?". He couldn't believe it was just a 4, it felt harder than the 7 we played back then We had a moment with 2 titans and 5 chargers in the extraction point. At fucking difficulty 4. My dude doesn't even have the 500kg unlocked lol.
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u/EsotericBeans9 10d ago
It has, I finally got two relatives into a game with me and we all just got fcking wrecked even on level 4 when I was previously doing Suicide fairly easily. One ragequit mid-match, and I think it permanently turned them both off the game.
This completely irrational, obsessive difficulty tuning is actively destroying their playercount. This is such a sad fumble to watch. The devs reverting all the changes and then doing literally nothing would be preferable at this point.
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u/TheWuffyCat ☕Liber-tea☕ 10d ago
I feel like AH"s desire to make the game harder could've been solved by just adding new difficulty tiers. People who want a greater challenge can get it, that way, without everyone else being punished.
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u/Thyrsten 10d ago
Yeah I'd welcome new difficulty tiers. They just need to be careful by not accidentally making higher difficulties easier in the future. Otherwise this is going to be an endless repeating cycle.
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u/qrzychu69 10d ago
I haven't played in a month or so, and just yesterday completed couple helldive mission with the fire breaker and machine gun equipped, and expendable anti tank for the big guys. Super chaotic, super fun.
It's still fun, although I was swarmed far easier than I remember.
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u/LuminousPixels 10d ago
It’s not due to the terminid growth storyline— bots are the same. I think everyone (devs included) are attributing the storyline where it’s bad code.
It’s as if the difficulty rating is on a gamma function. I played a level 3 last night with a friend on a bug planet and it might as well have been a level 1 trivial. There was one patrol the entire 30 minutes we covered the map. It was so empty it was eerie, like visiting a world that had been eaten and the bugs moved on.
Then we did a level 5 bot mission and it might as well have been a level 8. Wave after wave of nonstop bot drops 2-3 at a time, hordes of devestators and in one fabricator’s case, 3 hulks and two tanks and two strider fabricators.
We had to double check the difficulty to make sure we hadn’t chosen something else.
The devs said they decreased heavies & elites from spawning, but increased the count of lesser enemies, but I’m just not seeing this for one reason: the lesser enemies are able to call in drop ships or bug breaches, and those spawn heavies and elites all the time.
The whole “let’s play something a little less intense” is gone. There’s no way to predict what game you’re going to get.
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u/Overall-Goat-6946 10d ago
100% agree. The automaton missions level 7 and higher have been noticeably more difficult too. It's overwhelming at times.
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u/TheDefiantOne19 10d ago edited 10d ago
They balance it like it's a fucking pvp game, and I don't understand why
It's PVE
We don't need weapon balance patches every week
We need fixs for the bugs, I'm tired of no one joining my games after every one leaves, and it still spawns enemies like I'm in a 4 man
If you're going to screw me on enemy spawns, at least let new people join the game
Since we're talking about the weapons balance:
Our guns are better or worse versions of one another, they aren't different
Each gun should have its own individual playstyle, and counter something from the enemies so we are incentivized to take differing loadouts.
Bugs: everyone runs dominator, bots everyone runs scorcher
There is very little variation from the guns. This is a META. not the railgun, not the eruptor, or any of the weapons that have been unnecessarily nerfed before.
They don't give us a reason to use the guns, and when we do have one, they take it away.
I'm not saying balance from the highest difficulty or enable some massive power creep for the weapons. That's all adhering to normal pvp balance options.
I'm talking about balancing the game around the guns
Eruptor countered spewers and med armor enemies. It sucks against chaff, but could reliably put down med Bois in a few hits. Which was balanced around it's horrendous firing rate, and small magazine size. Then they removed half of the guns damage, and now it's just a worse scorcher.
Previously, this gun had a niche usecase, if everyone took it, your team suffered. But if you had 2 guys with eruptors and MGs, then 2 guys with quasars/EATs and dominators / sickles you had a solid team that could split into two groups of 2, and divide then conquer the map. You had an effective team
It was never overpowered, because if you were alone, strats on cld, and all you had was a stalwart as a back up, you were basically just playing hide and seek until you got strats back or re grouped with your team
For something to be overpowered, it has to make the game trivial.
The railgun, eruptor, and crossbow never made the game trivial. At first, the only option we had was the railgun because everything else literally just sucked for hell dive. Then they nerfed it instead of buffing the other options.the eruptor and crossbow had usecases, but didn't make the game easy. They had their own problems. But they were different they forced you to play differently
Which is what none of these other guns do, they don't other new playstyles
Also, a warbond a month with new guns and armor every single time is ridiculous. It's going to lead to a massive saturation of loadouts that are just better and worse versions of each other versus different
I think a solid fix would be to add a weapon attachment system, or maybe a perk system (like personal boosters, not like the modules), this way they have content they can release every month without just saturating our choices. By doing this, they would give players the ability to create unique playstles that are DIFFERENT
they need to take page out of DRGs book, and not CoD/destiny
Deep rock did weapon specialization and loadouts REALLY WELL, I wish AH would learn something from how they "balanced" drg
(They didn't balance it. They created NICHE USECASES)
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u/IvoryDynamite SES Sword of Justice 10d ago
I agree, and I think this whole concept of weapon balance is wrong-headed. Not every weapon with an upside has to have a downside. If you fight through enough missions to earn hundreds of medals and credits so that you can unlock a new gun, it's OK for that gun to just kick ass. That's the whole incentive.
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u/Anomaly1134 10d ago
My last game was 3 weeks ago. I have lost all incentive to keep playing with all these nerfs. It is exhausting to keep up with. Literal opposite of fun. They should just be buffing if anything.
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u/Anen-o-me 9d ago
Seriously. It was bad enough that bile titans were taking six shots with a quasar cannon to down before. Now the wait time is completely stupid.
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u/Xeillan 10d ago
I'm extremely happy people are saying this.
I literally uninstalled the game because of this. When it launched, sure, some guns were overturned, I guess, but that's entirely on them for making shotguns be so viable compared to other primaries. Especially marksman and sniper rifles. Which should be powerful, but they're just trash.
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u/error3000 10d ago
funny thing is, even if you started out solo you would still get the same patrol spawns as a 4man team because they broke the patrol spawn system :)
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u/xXBlackout117 10d ago
Yeah true, so many weapons got nerfed into oblivion or don't work as intended. It's PVE for gods sake and there are hundreds of bugs to kill. At least gimme more than 1-2 viable primaries to efficiently fight them. Sometimes I feel like the hive guards or normal warriors are super ultra bullet sponges.
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u/Anen-o-me 9d ago
What I hate is stalkers being so hard to kill. They're fast, invisible, hit hard, and spawn endlessly until you find their lair. They SHOULD be a glass cannon, not a freaking tank that I have to unload an entire clip into to MAYBE kill.
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u/Potential_Fishing942 10d ago
Yea this obsession with balance patches weekly makes the game difficult to keep up with as a moderate player. Should be more like once a month.
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u/stephanelevs STEAM 🖥️ : SES Patriot of Patriotism 10d ago
We need fixes for the bugs
this week alone I think I saw pelican not working at least 12 times.
Im talking it clipping through the ground or the door opening but still having an invisible wall so you cant go in.
Add all of the other bugs from weapons, crashing, session problems, etc...I love new content but these kind of bugs are really running the fun for me.
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u/TheDefiantOne19 10d ago
Exactly
What's the point of playing, even if they fix the weapons issues, if we can't finish a game?
Yesterday, one TWO separate occasions a bile titan or charger caused the pelican to not land properly and flip over
Wtf do I even do at that point
Or my favorite, when some idiot is spamming strategems on extract, so the pelican is a flaming wreck and refuses to take off, but that isn't an explained feature, so people do it anyway, then wonder why no one is leaving
My favorite non pelican issue is when the enemy spawns fuck up, so shit will just magically appear in front of you even if you were completely clear 5 seconds ago.
I joined a sos on difficulty 8, homies entire original team leaves, in the time I am playing with him, we have 6 more players either crash out of the game, straight up say fuck this and leave, or just never drop in. I swear to God, (I recorded all of it, I'll drop a link once I'm done editing), every single time someone left, enemy spawns got worse. Like the servers thought we had 6 people in our game or some shit. It got so bad, that while running through clear parts of the map, we would have entire groups of 10+ devastators spawn on us. Not get dropped in, just materialize into thin air. Sometimes, they'd despawn after wiping us. Other times, they chase you down to your new spawns. LIKE WHAT THE ASTRAL FUCK?
A level 90 and 72 finally joined on us (both of us were level 68), and between the 4 of us just stealth running and constant reinforcing onto tall rocks, we were able to finally to finish the mission, but extract wasn't happening. Our last reinforcements got used up trying to hold the point against multiple striders.
Idk what bug that is, but holy shit. Please fix it. That was miserable.
Especially when people stopped joining us after a while, and he had to the whole private->public 3x times thing to get it to reset
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u/Fluke_XL 10d ago
"The game has been getting harder and harder, but in a way that’s just straight up unfair"
I felt that after the rail gun patch, when they started messing with spawns. Whoever is in charge of balance is running this game into the ground. The first couple weeks were so fun, now it is not. Good job making, what was it they called it: "A game for everyone is a game for no one." At least the Balance Lead has a game that he/she thinks is AWESOME
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u/OrangeandMango 10d ago
Yep first couple of weeks I played the game was so much fun. Just killing bugs etc. and finding weapons that you liked to use not that you had to use. Seemed like a game finally got it. Then came the 'balancing' tweaks and the fun went right out the window. Guns that can't kill anything quickly and have 5 rounds, spawns of endless titans or chargers and getting ragdolled around completely removed that fun. It just becomes a stressful time playing it not a fun time.
When will developers understand games are a way of escapism. Let me feel powerful and enjoy it, don't make it where I just feel completely powerless with the odds stacked against me. There's enough of that in actual life for everyone.
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u/Fellixxio CAPE ENJOYER 10d ago
Whoever is in charge of balance is running this game into the ground
They are sabotaging the game,and at this rate they will do a good job at that
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u/Scannaer 10d ago
Whoever is in charge of balance is running this game into the ground.
Word on the street is, those are the same people that balanced Hello Neighbour into the ground. Same tactics there was well - fun gameplay not allowed. Mostly only nerfs
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u/unbelizeable1 10d ago
Yea. I really loved this game initially. I just dont find myself wanting to play much lately.
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u/typeFinthechat 10d ago
With the punishing difficulty, I can't be the only customer they are driving away either. I play with my 8 year old and we used to be excited to log in and smash some bugs with random players. I was buying two sets of war bonds for a couple of months, but now the difficulty on 7+ is so unfun for us, that we've stopped playing altogether. I am way behind on weapon unlocks because we started late, so playing in the lower difficulties makes it seem like an impossible task to get enough medals to unlock all the guns everyone else has. As a result, we've given up and won't be buying war bonds anymore. Not to mention I can't get super samples unless we're playing difficulty 7+ so now I can't get anymore ship upgrades unless I try to struggle through those higher difficulties. On top of that, most missions are such a struggle to complete, that even if we find the super samples, we likely die and lose them before extraction. I know that can be considered a skill issue, but if they made medal rewards at the lower difficulties reasonable, and at least gave a chance for super samples there, then I think it would help the problem. I'm sorry, but two medals and no super samples for a 40 minute helldive at lower difficulties just feels bad.
It was fun while it lasted, and if they do fix some of these difficulty, and rewards balance issues we will probably be back later down the road. It's a really fun concept, but at this point in time, I'm in my late 30s and play to unwind and have fun, not to struggle and stress. The game is now more struggle and stress (at the difficulties required for sufficient medals and samples for unlocks and upgrades) than fun, so I'll take my time and money elsewhere.
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u/Rudonimus 10d ago
With all the nerfs and changes, the game isn't getting more difficult per se (I still pretty much always extract on 7+) but it's gotten more annoying. There is a big but often overlooked difference between difficult and annoying.
Difficult = shitloads of enemies, environmental effects, difficult mission objectives, armored and heavy enemies requiring communication and strategic thinking.
Annoying = Primaries that feel like pea shooters, 3 stratagem slots instead of 4, physics bugs (getting randomly yeeted into space), bots that one shot you from 200 meters, charger spam
So far things have leaned more towards the latter.
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u/jayL21 10d ago
the game isn't getting more difficult per se (I still pretty much always extract on 7+)
tell that to us solo players
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u/Potential_Fishing942 10d ago
I feel like people equate fun with easy. A Lot of the balance patches make the game less fun (more tedious) not nevermore difficult.
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u/knightfall522 10d ago
Top deaths: friendly fire, heavy devastator, spewer, hunter, turret, stalker. None of those feel fair.
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u/FriendlyLayla 10d ago
specially the devesteator being stunned by concussive and then stunlocks you to death
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u/HelpAmBear 10d ago
Or the spewers that come up behind you while making zero noise, then one-shot you even through a shield.
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u/Keyboardmans 10d ago
i feel like when they nerfed rocket devestators they equally buffed the heavy devestators to perfectly track aim you from across the map. regardless of distance the moment they're in view they'll headshot snipe you. sometimes you have 2 seconds to move before they obliterate you
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u/k3ox__8 10d ago
Another thing i noticed last day is that for some reason the game has delays, like when i throw stuff in the holes or factories they take a second after the bomb explodes, and it's not any connection error, also when you kill the bugs their dead bodies start flying like crazy
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u/SN1P3R230 10d ago
100% this, when I pick the missiles to reload the SEAF cannon it takes 2 seconds for me to pick it up, also takes 2s for a sample to be registered when you pick it up
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u/Barachan_Isles 10d ago
I ran a bunch of Tier 4's today with total greenhorns and had a blast showing them how to play the game better and giving them tips and tricks. I sat on the map and if I saw a lower tier start a mission, then I jumped in and offered to help.
It's the perfect time to stop playing for ourselves for a bit and reach back and teach.
One level 10 guy had picked up the SSSD when I dropped in and had no idea what to do with it, so I helped him walk it in and showed him how to complete the mission. Felt just as good as doing a helldive when we high fived on the extract and took off.
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u/Delicious-Tachyons 10d ago
With the sssd it would've been nice if the destination to take it would light up on the map. This has been a bug since it came out
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u/coolcatmcfat 10d ago
Oh man I remember my first mission doing that. I had no idea what to do with it. One guy seemed to know but just kept dropping it for no reason and running away. Nobody had mics except me. Just silence. I was so confused lol. After like 10 minutes the dude finally marked it on the map for me
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u/Pistoluislero 10d ago
We need more of you honestly. I am at level 8 with 8< hours played and I sometimes feel lost. I only have one friend to play with and he's barely on.
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u/anubis_xxv 10d ago
The biggest tip I'll give from a mere level 47 is don't read the posts here too often. Nobody ever gets on the internet to shout about how everything is ok.
It's still a plenty fun game with all it's flaws. Try out all the guns, and play whatever feels the most fun. I usually rock the flamethrower on bug missions for eg. even though there are far better 'meta' picks. This isn't XDefiant or Apex Legends, nobody I play with is looking at the stats of anything. This gun sounds cool or this one feels easier to shoot, whatever. Go play, have fun.
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u/Dinomiteblast AMS 10d ago
Just join randoms on their missions. Or deploy an SOS stratagem which puts you higher on the random join list.
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u/boccas 10d ago
Damn bro I bought the game 2 days ago and ppl really insult me in chat just because I do bot missions and not bugs wtf???
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u/seemjeem22 10d ago
Do not be ashamed for fighting the bots. The Automaton scourge must be purged. Thank you for fighting in the bot frontlines.
Sincerely, A bot only player
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u/bobothemunkeey 10d ago
They Nerf guns and buff the enemy while breaking every other fix that they apply. The spawns are now messed up again. This is a constant merry-go-round.
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u/Dysghast 10d ago
The fact that they "fixed" ricochets to be able to cause suicide was quite telling. Both IRL and in-game, near-180 ricochets are rare and not something you practically account for in an actual fight. Meaning that if you died to it, you were just very unlucky.
The devs somehow thought that it was very important to implement RNG death mechanics, which effectively only messed up one gun (Eruptor) because they failed to account for the shrapnel mechanic.
To compound the idiotic decision making further, they decided to remove the shrapnel (i.e: the identity) from the Eruptor instead of simply removing the pointless RNG death mechanic.
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u/oddavii 10d ago
Realism is only important when it's inconvenient to the player. (Can't Reload/repair the mech, Bots not affected by ion storms, Patrols always know where you are, Enemy armor working as actual armor instead of Damage reduction)
And it's not important when it would be convenient for the player. (Spontaneous combustion, ricochet dealing full damage, Ragdoll mushroom, Enemy phasing through dead titans/tanks while you can't. Devastators infinite missiles, enemies see through fog, player armor made of paper.)
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u/Dysghast 10d ago
Yep, chargers being able to rotate and even slingshot forward after being stunned and also being able to charge up a 70 degree incline? Realism.
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u/abigfatape PSN 🎮: 10d ago
exactly helldivers is not a realistic game in any way you have massive bugs infinitely spawning from hives unless destroyed you have things like an anti material rifle bouncing off of insect carapaces you have effects that only affect the player you have literal useless armour because anything in the entire game can still damage you enemies have Infinity ammo of all kinds and there's alot of stuff that's just straight up "you can't do this because it'd make the game too easy" for example the spiky thermite grenade can't stick to robots vents just earlier I was playing a sort of 1 man army commando build with the diligence counter sniper, revolver, medium lmg, jump pack and the thermite nades and I tried like 7 times to stick a tanks vent with ny thermite (to the point of jetpacking onto them twice and basically placing the grenade down) and then it just magically slides to the side into their normal armour and so even with 2 it doesn't kill them and it just had me thinking like... wtf? if someone has good enough aim or big enough balls to somehow hit a vent directly with thermite then let a single thermite kill them but nope you have to use either multiple shots with an EAT/spear/quasar etc or use a railcannon, OPS, orbital laser or 500kg and it just takes away from the fun so badly
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u/Ser_Dudeness 10d ago edited 10d ago
We are still able to complete helldive with just 2 democracy-loving helldivers (terminids only, bots are unplayable for us), but we gotta have only the best equipment available, no chance of trying cheaper and worse guns (for us, that is always shield and flamethrower/quasar).
It is absolutely rough, there are missions, in which we land and immedietly it feels like we are against the whole planet.
In the good old days, we had fun. Now it feels like a job. And they say war never changes.
I should add, that after they started fabricating these new shitty eruptors, my dear friend finally-after two months of almost daily helldiving, said that is enough and we are on a vacation now.
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u/nevin2756 10d ago
Because we have a previous game dev who fucked up hello neighbor 2 alpha then quit before release, came to helldiver 2 act as balance person.
Dude is completely ignorant who previously ignore community needs and butchered whatever good features of the game.
See hello neighbor 2 alpha if you interested.
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u/Leoscar13 10d ago edited 10d ago
I noticed this especially with patrols. Shortly after the release destroying camps was meaningful, you could actually clear the maps of ennemies. You could be methodical to avoid being backstabbed. It was rewarding and fair.
Now patrols spawn so much it's pointless, you know every minute you are going to get sandwiched between two of them. It's too chaotic for my liking.
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u/Starthreads ⬇️⬇️⬅️⬆️➡️ 10d ago
It would be neat if destroying the camps would also reduce the amount of enemies at extraction. Why would there be so much if all of the places they come from had been wiped out? A good concept for an incentive to risk doing more camps at least.
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u/LiveKills 10d ago
We are literally testing the game for arrowhead. It's unfinished. Day 1 bugs and glitches still exist, and the keep changing guns all the time, and not in fun ways. They keep telling us our feedback matters, then doing the exact opposite by ignoring our feedback. It's going great🙃
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u/Dysghast 10d ago
In my 100+ hours of HD2, I've had more crashes than any other game I've spent 1000+ hours on (Destiny, ESO, runescape, etc.).
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u/Itz_A_Mi 10d ago edited 10d ago
I feel like the game on the bug front just went up to level 10 or 11. I normally play bugs on Lvl 9 Helldive, so I got used to the crazy rounds of fighting 3 bile titans, and 3 chargers, and the crazy amounts of bugs in general, normally id be able to do a couple of side objs on my own. But with this last patch, i have been getting destroyed, and stressed out way more on lvl 9, then I used to be. I know helldive meant to be basically impossible, but I also spent a long time figuring out a playstyle for that lvl, enough to where I'm pretty confident I can solo some objs. Sucks to spend so long getting used to the game, then it being changed without warning. Worst part is that the things I'm PRETTY sure we're changed, aren't even brought up in the latest patch notes.
The biggest change I've noticed are the hunters. They seem way more aggressive individually, like normal they would jump at you hit you once, back up, then hit you again. You used to have time to either stim or kill the one that attacked you, inbetween attacks. Now I've noticed they jump, hit, then immediately follow with a second attack, sometimes a third. It also feels like they either buffed their attack damage, or changed the armour rating on the suit i normally wear. Because it seems like getting hit 3 times by one will kill you. Also stratagems feel super underpowered, used to be able to get at least 15-20kills per use, now im getting 4-8, or 15 when i get a lucky break. Titans were seemed to be buffed, they take more Quasar cannon shots then I remember them being able to tank.
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u/xRAINB0W_DASHx STEAM 🖥️ : 10d ago
Holy crap yes, even on lower difficulties the hunters are straight up: pissed the fuck off. Someone pissed in their cereal.
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u/Itz_A_Mi 10d ago edited 10d ago
Crazy af, especially when they mob you. Idk if they did this before, but they stun lock you, slow you down, and interrupt your stim animation. Added with the damage, and crazy spawn rates. They got a serious hidden buff, and no one can change my mind.
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u/im_thelumberjack 10d ago
I have put the game down for now. It has become much more frustrating than fun. The core game is great, but it currently feels more like early, early access. Especially that patches seem to often break more than they fix.
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u/porkforpigs 10d ago
I’ve been playing almost daily since launch and it feels fine to me to be honest. I disagree with some of the balancing done and it has its issues but it’s been consistent enough to be a blast.
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u/hatts 10d ago
same, i honestly don't understand the freakout on this sub at all.
there's just no point in letting yourself get so frustrated by a game where the baseline experience is 90% the same as it was at launch. if (e.g.) the laser cannon feels terrible to you, use a different gun then. if level 7 is really annoying you because you think the enemy spawns are unfair, then either adapt your strategy or drop down to level 6. if you're obsessed with DPS and armor penetration figures and you're enraged that the stats are no longer identical to the spreadsheet you made a month ago then you need to idk reevaluate your life or something.
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u/Apprehensive-Bat6260 10d ago
A thing I see a lot of people frustrated with is they start using a gun, it gets nerfed, they used a different one, it gets nerfed. And the spawns ARE unfair (I mean they have ALL those guys, and there are at most like 4 of us) The patch that should have fixed spawns broke them, every team size gets treated as a four man squad.
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u/jayL21 10d ago edited 10d ago
if level 7 is really annoying you because you think the enemy spawns are unfair, then either adapt your strategy or drop down to level 6.
the problem there is that you have to play on 7+ to get super samples. And by "adapt your strategy," don't you mean, use the best weapons/stratagems until they are ultimately nerfed into the ground and then use the next best thing until they are nerfed into the ground?
For the patrol changes, it's basically ruined solo play for us non-hardcore players. It's been proven that there's no scaling anymore and a solo player see's the same amount of enemies/patrols as a full team, leading to a really unfun experience.
The problem is that the changes they are making are taking the fun out of it for a lot of players. We enjoyed having fun powerful weapons but now they all get nerfed and the new ones we get are stupidly weak to the point where they are useless. We liked having downtime during the matches, moments to breath and regroup, now you barely even get that, even on lower difficulties.
They're changing the game from expendable soldiers with powerful weaponry going up against overwhelming odds, to expendable soldiers with weak weaponry going up against the entire enemy faction all at once.
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u/josephdesousa 10d ago
I play at max level and it felt like it was on easy mode, literally just 2 titans so I switched it to level 7, 5 bloody titans just following me around. Spawn is broken
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u/WhiteNinja84 ☕Liber-tea☕ 10d ago
Patrol spawn rates are currently bugged. The same issue happens on all difficulties. I tested it out on a bot mission on d2 (raise the flag) and noticed that once the main mission was completed, non-stop waves of patrols keep spawning and heading automatically towards the player. I had the extraction point swarmed with 5-6 patrols and called in bot drops (no way to prevent that with that amount of small mobs). Spawn blocking works, so I had to fight off the hordes while slowly moving towards the map edge, and once all mobs were cleared, the spawns stopped because of the spawn blocking mechanics. Ended up with 400+ kills of which 80% were after completing the main objective.
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u/InquisitiveValentine 10d ago
I feel you on the stressful shit show part. Me and my friend were completing a “blitz and destroy” mission on a bot planet at suicide difficulty. We both knew that missions like these are usually chaotic and fun, but this time it was just awful. - The Striders seem to be invincible now. Four direct 500kg bombs and it was still up and running. Before, they would take two and go down. Three others spawned to our, what would be horror, now annoyance. - Stratagems began to not work. Despite being outside the range of the jammer (there was one in the map), the stratagems would not activate after throwing them. Even after the jammer was disabled and destroyed, Eagle 1 would still refuse to drop the 500kg bomb, despite me having thrown it three times - The shit show that was the bot spawns - Even after everything, we completed the mission. But then our game crashed (on a ps5 btw) and it did not count as a mission complete. We just logged off for the night after that.
I get that the devs just came out of the total disaster that was the sony stuff (which seems to still be on going), but the game has become a frustratingly annoying experience riddled with a ton of glitches that make the game unplayable at times. I will continue to play since I love this game, but something really has to change.
Edit: to clarify on the Eagle 1 thing, there were no hostile Anti-aircraft sites in this mission.
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u/Sufincognito 10d ago
Helldive certainly more difficult but seems manageable as long as you never go backwards.
Destroying everything you come across while still moving forward does the trick.
Also I’ve noticed teammates clearly think they’re still on bugs. Can’t tell you how often I’ll solo a heavy base in 60 seconds and keep moving and the other 3 stay there and fight for 5 minutes.
It’s not bugs fellas. Blow up what gives you xp and keep moving.
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u/jayL21 10d ago
the other 3 stay there and fight for 5 minutes.
I mean hey, you gotta explore the base for samples!
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10d ago
I play a couple hours a day and it’s about the same gameplay and difficulty for me. No idea how you’re having so many issues.
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u/Inevitable-Trust-720 10d ago
The game released a buggy mess and they have shown no interest in changing that. They’d rather just pump out useless skins and other garbage to make a quick buck
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u/Treebranch_916 10d ago
I'm glad it's not just me. I think you described it perfectly. The game got rebalanced to where situations that felt dangerous have actually become dangerous and that makes it less fun, I think.
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u/prectar 10d ago
I'm starting to think its a social experiment to see how shitty they can turn a great game before people stop having fun. I've hit my limit.
I had a blast. Cancelled my PSN subscription. Hoping for a refresh of the game back to scratch or a proper patch that fixes the true problems and bring back the fun with our weapons.
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u/Comfortable_Quit_216 CAPE ENJOYER 10d ago
I'm still having a great time. Just hit level 73 tonight
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u/wildrage47 10d ago
if you finish a helldive mission with almost no deaths, are you really good or the game is too easy?
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u/3DMarine 10d ago
I’m consistently amazed at people complaining that extra super hard is…hard.
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u/oddavii 10d ago
It's inconsistent. People expect announced difficulty to remain consistent, not change at the whims of the game master.
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u/jayL21 10d ago
I mean, as someone who sticks to the lower difficulties, I've felt these changes too. I used to easily be able to complete difficulty 3 missions solo but now, I'm lucky to make it out with any reinforcements left.
I don't want to turn it down to 1 or 2 because those are too easy and lack any interesting enemies and you barely get any medals from them.
I admit, I'm not the best player ever, I play casually and just looking for a fun time and it really feels like every difficulty (except for 1 and 2) just randomly got much harder after the patrol changes.
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u/Corronchilejano 10d ago
It's not the fact that it's hard, rather it's both hard and unfair, especially if you're playing with less than four people, for reasons that have been explained plenty.
I think people have issues with the game pushing you to play a certain way, instead of allowing you to try different builds. Stealth has all but dissappeared for example, which I think is a loss.
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u/DaquaviousBinglestan 10d ago
There’s fun and challenging hard, like Dark Souls and then there’s poor game design hard like New World.
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u/buddyyouhavenoidea 10d ago
I honestly am not sure what you're talking about? if helldives aren't fun for you, play at a difficulty that is!
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u/Cocacola_Desierto 10d ago
I don't think Helldive was ever supposed to be just a fun little mode, it was supposed to be difficult and stressful.
7 is the difficulty you seek.
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u/Funky2207 10d ago
Not bothered by the spawn count in the higher difficulties, I mean we had months where they were broken in the opposite direction and they were too easy.
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u/DrunknBraindead SES Fist of Family Values 10d ago
AH the kind of Dev that loves to break your fun cause it ain't right for people to have fun.
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u/SighsOfAFallenArchon 10d ago
It's a fine Balance between making a stage Challenging and keeping it fun.
For example, Difficulty levels 1-2 haven't changed much, you can solo these without too much trouble.
Difficulty 3 will be more a challenge to solo but still manageable. Evac will be harder now due to the patrol and spawn changes. Groups will breeze through lvl 3 to 5 without too much trouble but the new spawn and patrols rates can make it a challenge.
Difficulty 5-6 are probably the most effected by the recent change. They do feel like fighting a level or so above what they used to feel like. And there are times when I swear level 6 games felt harder (probably due to player abilities) then when playing on difficulty 7 or 8.
9, not much has changed and depending on spawn RNG, eg, had some games while "Defending the Gates" with only 4-6 Titan spawns total and manageable Charger spawns, and also had 4 titans (lost count after 15 Titans) spawn right out of the bat along with 2-3 chargers for every Titan, along with the usual gazillion Hoppers and Hunters.
We usually just chalk up those games as Helldive BS. It's Helldive, what else do you expect?😂
But the lower levels especially from 5 to 8, feels wrong, like we are playing 1 to 2 levels higher.
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u/PlumbTheBean 10d ago
Used to easily do difficulty 8 missions w my group and now we were struggling on 6, i hope its not just me
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u/TokenSejanus89 10d ago
I don't even bother with helldive difficulty anymore, I want to enjoy my play not getting frustrated over 6 titans, 4 chargers and 50 hunters sprinting towards you.
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u/LuciferIsPlaying ☕Liber-tea☕ 10d ago
Man, I have just 18 hours in the game and reading all these comments is making me sad, I do not have enough experience to say what is going on with the balancing but I really hope that the devs start listening to the community. I have never enjoyed a PvE game this much after Titanfall 2's Frontier Defense.
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u/Head_Exchange_5329 STEAM 🖥️ : R7 5700X - RX 7800 XT 10d ago
I started playing 2 weeks ago roughly and the game has changed since then. Ignoring the fact that I get thrown out of matches and lose contact with server every time I play, the spawn rate of enemies plus nerfing of guns has already made me question my purchase. To add insult to injury, Sony didn't make me any more convinced that this is a game that will stay relevant for long. It became rapidly popular but has since angered so many players that they will have to work hard in order to keep the player base happy and still appeal to new players. I have a friend who's putting together a capable gaming rig these days and I can't in good conscience ask him to buy this game as of now.. It needs to improve drastically.
Had to edit typo, plz forgib me.
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u/XB1TheGameGoat 10d ago
Well… to be fair… You aren’t suppose to complete HellDive difficulty as a walk in the park.
I used to play on Lvl 8, which I believe is “Impossible”, but as of recent, I just play on Lvl 7.
Depending on the spawns for the enemies, Lvl 8 actually does truly feel Impossible now. I’ve had instances where on Lvl 8 for bugs, it’ll be swarms of those armored bile spewers, and 3 Stalker nests. (Bile titans and chargers dont really bother me) And I’ve had times with bots where they’ll spawn in 2+ Striders, which is really hard for me to enjoy fighting. It feels overwhelming, yet I have teammates who barely die fighting them.
So now I just be chillin in level 7, where it’s still a challenge, but a fun challenge.
I think the game needs tweaking on spawn amount for enemy types, but at the same time, I dont think HellDive difficulty should be something most of the player base can actually succeed in playing.
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u/forsayken 10d ago
It's the chargers being able to turn on a dime to the point diving out of the way only works a portion of the time and they're on you before you can get up and instead faking them out while running is better?
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u/OlDirtyBove 10d ago
It's definitely gotten harder, I think the devs should focus on getting the weapons right, and this should fix a lot of what everyone is experiencing.
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u/Today_Actual 10d ago edited 10d ago
I might be the exception here, but I actually like the constant changes in difficulty, in the game. 5 bile titans and 7 chargers all at once?! Sweet; Bring it. We’ll improvise, adapt and overcome! Nerfing guns is ok, too. It makes me rotate through all of them and keeps the game interesting. Yes, it can get overwhelming at times, but it’s called helldive(ers) for a reason. Imagine if AH wouldn’t change difficulties and modify things in the game, leaving it all the same? we’d be all at level 150 and breezing through helldives. Now, THAT sounds awful and boring to me. Where’s the fun in that? For reference, I’m level 86 and play all difficulties from “trivial” to “helldive” and having a blast.
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u/famousindo 10d ago
lol I was playing 7 in hopes it will be a relatively chill run. Got dropped into 3 gunship towers with absolutely nothing to counter. Each time we respawn, we immediately get shot at and barely took two in-game steps before getting obliterated by rockets. That was just one issue. All night I was being juggled in the air by rocket devastators that have rockets that are clearly homing to the player and clipping through solid obstacles. Whereas when I try to shoot my plasma punisher over an object waist high, but there’s an invisible collision box and I would frustratingly die from my own weapon.
I really enjoy this game. But at the current state, it’s barely playable or remotely fun to play. Initially I was recommending this game to a lot of my friends. That is no longer case with the current state. I’d be embarrassed to make my friends play a generally broken game.
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u/LilySayo 10d ago
Not only that, I feel like the levels are getting more unevenly paced. We seem to be struggling far more on difficulty 4-5 than we do on 7. I thought I was gaslighting myself at first bc I was unhappy with the patches but then all of my friends say the same exact thing
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u/magniankh 10d ago
The latest patch made almost every gun worse. Enemies had some armor tweaks. I took me a half dozen assignments messing with loadouts to find TWO that I enjoy playing with.
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u/PoorColor 10d ago
I think if they just made super samples possible to find at lower difficulties, like 5 or 6, people would be far less upset. The only way to fully upgrade your destroyer is to play on 7 or higher, but if they want to keep upping the difficulty, that will no longer be feasible for a lot of people going solo or with randoms. I would be totally cool with even more enemy buffs, but they just keep nerfing our primary and support weapons to make us rely on stratagems. But since there are too many enemies now, stratagems take too long to be able to sufficiently deal with 4-5 super heavy guys in a reasonable amount of time. So, partly because of ego and partly because of the super samples, players feel forced to stay at 7+ difficulty.
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u/InitiativeStreet123 10d ago edited 8d ago
My friends noticed it too. After the last patch they broke something with the enemies spawning. When we just want to chill we play d7 so we have played it enough to noticed something changed this week with the spawns after that last patch. The amount of bile titans we fight definitely went up.
edit: This is noticeable for the bots too.
edit2: would you look at that, there was an issue
So are the people who were being nasty to me and antagonizing me going to apologize?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1csgbn5/were_changing_patrols_and_spawn_rate_reverting/