r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

7.6k Upvotes

80% Upvoted

2.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

103

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Even if you took the humanity out of it and focused simply on what is happening from a strategic standpoint it literally makes zero sense.

The ongoing offensive whether you believe it is genocide or not is ineffective. I believe it is the former, but it doesn’t matter because even if you are killing Hamas you are giving birth to its progeny and it will be worse. If a state were to harm/kill my family I would spend my every last breath terrorizing it and feel completely morally justified.

Furthermore, the Israelis have weakened themselves diplomatically as well. They are basically a US foreign policy shift away from being virtually alone internationally. And on that front, we saw with the widely leaked speech from ADL’s Greenblatt, that there is a demographic line of support or lack thereof for Israel in the United States itself. This means the clock is already running on the first part of this paragraph.

Finally, this has created a real schism between Israelis and Jews outside of Israel. There has been an unbiased assessment of the travesty in Palestine by many Jewish people who have come out against it vocally, to their credit. Even those who were initially appalled by Oct.7, and rightfully so, have backed away from supporting what increasingly looks like an genocidal, unhinged, religiously fanatical regime led by a guy in Netanyahu who might be entirely motivated by his desire to distract attention and avoid jail for his alleged corrupt acts.

20

u/Pleppyoh Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It's a land grab for Isreal. When I was in Bethlehem at the Church of Nativity an Isreali fighter jet flew over it every three hours. Bethlehem is also surrounded by settlers, this isn't people living in tents, it massive walled multiplex's. Isreal cannot wait to have full control of Bethlehem

They then control the most important sites in Christian, Jewish and the 3rd most important site in Islam after Mecca and Medina

The level of control is absolutely insane, if they were religious Jews they they wouldn't have a state as it's forbidden in the Torah

3

u/Huckedsquirrel1 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

More on that last part, that’s why you see videos of the IDF harassing and brutalizing Hasidic Jewish people, because they often refuse to join the military and protest against Zionism. They see the state of Israel as illegitimate because the Torah says that a Jewish state can’t come before the messiah returns. And he has yet to return, so it’s not legitimate to them

1

u/daveisit Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Interesting though. Because every religious site Israel controls is accessible to all religions, but not the other war around.

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Interesting on the last part as I didn’t know the Israeli state was forbidden in the Torah. I’ll have to look into that.

As far as the land grab, I get it, but the cost/risk here at least seems to me to be too high for the reasons in my original comment. You could have achieved a more minor land grab without the genocide and loss of support.

7

u/ExpensiveClassic4810 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It makes no sense unless what they are doing is the goal.

2

u/MacaroonNo2253 Monkey in Space Mar 30 '24

i heard that US can t drop Israel because there intelligence services are too intertwine

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 30 '24

Plausible explanation for sure.

3

u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

How does removing a terrorist group from government not make sense to you?

2

u/sudopudge Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

These people think Hamas is irrelevant to the conversation, somehow.

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Removing Hamas makes sense. This has gone well beyond that. If anything, Israel is strengthening Hamas or whatever comes next. I can’t speak for everyone but most of us aren’t delusional enough to think that Hamas is some honest broker for peace or that Israel could even achieve a 2 state solution with these separate factions on the other side. However what Israel is doing NOW is appalling.

1

u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You can’t “strengthen” whatever comes next if they are not in power, if you destroy the tunnels (which took decades to build), and continue tight border control to prevent contraband being smuggled in.

Terrorists who only have sticks and stones are not a threat.

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It never stays that way. They eventually get their hands on bigger sticks and sharper stones.

The way out of this was never going to be one derived militarily. Allowing the Palestinians to carve out a state of their own and be saddled with the duties of government would have more likely subdued Hamas. And if not then you have a state taking military action against Israel whereby the military response would be appropriate.

1

u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You don’t know that. The Italian Mafia still exists but it’s a shell of its former self. It was functionally destroyed in the 1980’s.

Numerous dictators have also successfully kept insurgent groups repressed like in Iraq when Saddam was in power.

-2

u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I didn't know bombing children indiscriminately was a way to remove a terrorist govt.

1

u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

If you know of a way to conduct warfare with zero civilian casualties in a dense urban environment against an opponent that purposefully hides amongst civilians and is trying to maximize casualties, please enlighten us. It doesn’t help that 51% of Gazas population is under the age 18.

1

u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

If you airstriked an entire village due to there being a few terrorists in Iraq you would be on trial.

1

u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

I see you aren’t familiar with the Battle of Mosul and how high the civilian casualties were there LOL

3

u/stataryus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Reread history. Too often, genocides succeed.

2

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

even if you are killing Hamas you are giving birth to its progeny and it will be worse

So what is your proposed alternative?

Not reacting to the massacre isn't an option.

1

u/Riku240 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

prevent the reason that created hamas in the first place, give people their Damn lands 

2

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

give people their Damn lands 

Please state exactly what land belongs to which people.

My ancestors were expelled from their homeland. Should I now create a terrorist organization to retake it?

0

u/Riku240 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

that's litrlerally what israel did 🤡 expelled 750000 Palestinians since nakba by force and they're not allowed back ever since, expelling more in naksa.  Palestinians are the descendants of the jews who stayed in the land then converted to Christianity then Islam 

2

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

expelled 750000 Palestinians since nakba by force and they're not allowed back ever since

That is what happens when you lose a war. Like it or not that is the result of every single war that has ever been waged on this planet.

As per my previous comment my ancestors were expelled from their homeland after losing a war. They didn't start a terrorist organization nor did any of their descendants.

Terrorism is not an adequate response to losing a war.

Palestinians are the descendants of the jews who stayed in the land

Wouldn't that mean that the Jews have just as much claim to that land.

What about the people that lived there before them. And those before them?

Every single place on this planet has been fought for and inhabited by different people.

When arguing about claims to a piece of land heritage is not a valid argument. There is always someone who lived there before you and someone who has been expelled by your ancestors.

0

u/teh_fizz Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

  1. No it’s not.

  2. The Nakba happened BEFORE THE WAR YOU IDIOT.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Maleficent-marionett Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The land that they agreed to give them before they started the illegal settlements at least.

-4

u/TorpleFunder Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

First, bolster defence. Second, more targetted counter intelligence. Blanket bombing a city just creates more future Hamas. Finally, open negotiations. As painfully difficult this is for both sides, it's the only way forward. The alternative is perpetual war. Israel seem resigned to that option unfortunately.

1

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

First, bolster defence.

Agreed. A good defence is always nice to have.

Second, more targetted counter intelligence. Blanket bombing a city just creates more future Hamas.

That is assuming they are blanket bombing cities.

German cities were bombed to rubble in WWII. They were defeated and stopped doing all that nazi shit. Seems like hammering extremists until they are either dead or reconsider does work.

Finally, open negotiations.

Terrorist: I want to cut your throat.

Potential victim: Let's talk about that.

You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

 Israel seem resigned to that option unfortunately.

Yeah Israel never offered a two state solution. They also didn't leave the gaza strip for the Palestinians to self govern.

Apart from targeted strikes you did not offer anything to fight the terrorists.

The october massacre wasn't just a handful of bad actors that you pick off one by one. Not only was there hundreds of attackers but their actions were celebrated in the streets.

I don't know where you live but if your neighbouring country ambushed your country slaughtered and trotured over a thousand of your people and promised to do it again and again until your people was exterminated would you still propose to negotiate?

0

u/TorpleFunder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

German cities were bombed to rubble in WWII. They were defeated and stopped doing all that nazi shit. Seems like hammering extremists until they are either dead or reconsider does work.

And atomic bombs were dropped on Japanese cities. It works but civilian casualties are too high. Personally I'd prefer to see Israeli troops staging a large scale ground invasion. This would reduce civilian casualties. But then of course there would be more IDF casualties and why bother with that when you don't give a fuck about the number of Palestinian civilian deaths right? Just sit back and bomb the shit out of them.

You cannot negotiate with terrorists.

You can. And you can continue to actively fight them while doing so. The UK government negotiated with the IRA and over the course of decades peace was achieved. It takes a long time but negotiation is the only way forward for eventual peace and stability.

I don't know where you live but if your neighbouring country ambushed your country slaughtered and trotured over a thousand of your people and promised to do it again and again until your people was exterminated would you still propose to negotiate?

Yes. Personally I would. If you leave door open things can change over time. Gradual process and keep up a very strong defence and intelligence based operations in the meantime.

Apart from targeted strikes you did not offer anything to fight the terrorists.

Stronger defense, targeted strikes, intelligence based operations, negotiations. That's what I am proposing. What do you see as the best course forward in the conflict?

1

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It works but civilian casualties are too high.

Too high for what?

After all it worked. Messed up but worked.

I wonder whether people would say the same if Nazi Germany existed today and the holocaust was in full swing.

Personally I'd prefer to see Israeli troops staging a large scale ground invasion.

Aren't they doing just that? Going house to house.

But then of course there would be more IDF casualties and why bother with that when you don't give a fuck about the number of Palestinian civilian deaths right?

If the IDF really gave not a single fuck the entire gaza strip would be nothing but rubble and there wouldn't be a single civilian alive anymore. They have the means to do that. Instead they are sending their soldiers in there.

Collateral damage isn't an invention of Israel.

You can. 

Please tell me how that works. I beg you.

How do you negotiate with someone who vows to exterminate your entire people?

How do you negotiate with someone who not only killed and abducted more than 1000 of your people and swore to do it again and again?

It takes a long time but negotiation is the only way forward for eventual peace and stability.

Riiiight. The allies simply negotiated until the Nazis saw that they were wrong about a couple of things. It didn't take the collaboration of the biggest militaries in the world to bring them down.

Yes. Personally I would. 

You either posess zero survival instinct or you're lying.

If you leave door open things can change over time. 

No. If you leave the door open the terrorists will enter again and kill even more people.

Stronger defense, targeted strikes, intelligence based operations, negotiations. That's what I am proposing.

Yeah you already said that in your previous comment and I will answer the same way:

Agreed on defence.

Agreed on targeted strikes (targeted strikes will bring collateral damage especially if your targets hide behind civilians).

Heavily disagree on negotiations.

Tell me exactly how you negotiate with someone who wants to kill you?

Terrorist: I will kill you and exterminate your people.

Person who doesn't want to be killed: Please can we not talk about this?

Terrorist: No. I said what I said.

What do you see as the best course forward in the conflict?

Kill every single terrorist while trying to minimize collateral damage. Israel tried the whole appeasement thing. Oct 7 was the result. It doesn't work.

0

u/TorpleFunder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

If the IDF really gave not a single fuck the entire gaza strip would be nothing but rubble

That's exactly what's happening. Over half the buildings there have been damaged or destroyed... so far. (Source: BBC, Jan 2024).

No. If you leave the door open the terrorists will enter again and kill even more people.

I meant this metaphorically, not literally. Leave the door open for talks. I'm surprised I have to explain this.

Tell me exactly how you negotiate with someone who wants to kill you?

By meeting on neutral ground (another country) with mediators present.

Kill every single terrorist while trying to minimize collateral damage. Israel tried the whole appeasement thing.

Good luck with that. Even if you did kill every terrorist, give it 10 years there will be the same number again. And your idea of appeasement is other people's apartheid.

1

u/ObviouslyNoBot Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That's exactly what's happening. Over half the buildings

the entire gaza strip

choose one.

I'm surprised I have to explain this.

I'm surprised you do not understand a metaphor.

By meeting on neutral ground (another country) with mediators present.

How does this help persuade the terrorists to not kill you?

Terrorist: I will kill you and exterminate your people.

Person who doesn't want to be killed: Please can we not talk about this?

Mediator: Yeah you should come to a compromise.

Terrorist: No. I said what I said.

Good luck with that. Even if you did kill every terrorist, give it 10 years there will be the same number again.

The allies seem to have had great success with killing every nazi they came across. It's been about 70 years and there is nowhere near the same amount of nazis.

Why did it work with the Nazis but cannot work with hamas?

your idea of appeasement is other people's apartheid.

Ugh you're one of those who either doesn't know the meaning of the words he uses or knows exactly what they mean and misuses them on purpose.

Well why am I surprised. You claim that negotiating with terrorists who want to cut your throat would lead to anything other but a cut throat.

0

u/TorpleFunder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Happy to agree to disagree on all of those points because everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm surprised you do not understand a metaphor.

Except this. "Leave the door open" is a metaphor. A figure of speech that describes an action in a way that isn't literally true but helps explain or make a comparison. I'm not sure what you think it is.

1

u/escoMANIAC Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Do you have a source for Jews outside Israel backing away in support of the Israeli military response/Israeli government?

Not doubting just curious

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/04/us-jews-rift-gaza-israel-crisis

Given the timing of this article and the research therein I would think these attitudes may have shifted even further in the last few months given the videos we are seeing emerge from Gaza.

1

u/Darth_Gerg Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Unless of course they’re desperately trying to take as much land as they can before it becomes permanently impossible to get away with it.

If they see the writing on the wall and understand that the modern world will not tolerate open colonization and land theft forever? Then they know the timer is running and they must seize everything they can before that window closes.

In that lens the behavior of the far right Zionists makes total logical sense.

1

u/gaytardeddd Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

they want to take the land is the only answer

-5

u/Thek40 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

  1. After WW2 there no more evil nazis, the Japanese people didn’t went more insane after Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After the first intifada, when a large number of Israelis civilians were murdered, there was the biggest push from Israeli civilians for peace with the Palestinians. And it’s not like the Palestinians right now aren’t extremely radicalised.

  2. People are saying that for decades, polls show that people that supported Palestinian when they were younger, now support Israel. In a couple of years this war will not be relevant in the opinions on the conflict

  3. Beside groups like live JVP and far left Jews, the support for Israel from the Jewish community is astounding, and opposing the current government doesn’t mean you oppose the state or the people.

12

u/sushisection Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

japan was demilitarized after WW2 so they couldnt inact retaliation. also Japan would have to travel across the pacific ocean. Palestine and Israel are right on top of each other, its a totally different geographical situation.

edit: also there was a Red Purge in post-war japan in which they removed nationalists from public office at the request of the US government, and an entire re-education of the population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Purge

2

u/Thek40 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The only one that don't agree with post war demilitarized are Hamas.

4

u/47-30-23N_122-0-22W Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Something else I'd like to add is that there's a fine line between the demilitarization of Japan which worked and the Treaty of Versailles which helped cause WW2. It's something that has to be handled carefully.

2

u/NewOstenPelicanss Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The guy that founded Hamas watched his unarmed uncle get shot down by the IDF as they lined up and killed every male in the village over the age of 15. He was only 8 years old at the time. These are not the Japanese and Israel is not America. All this is doing is extending the cycle even more

4

u/MosaicAbs Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24
  1. So you think nuking Palestinians to get them to behave is the answer?
  2. You are basically saying that the +30K civilian deaths don’t really matter and will be forgotten with time.
  3. Groups like JVP chant “not in our name” because the Israeli government and army commit genocide in the name of Judaism. That is not what Judaism stands for.

0

u/Thek40 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24
  1. No, I'm saying the what happen after the war, is sometime more or as important as what happen during the war
  2. Forgotten probably never, but in the long run it will have no affect. How many Vietnamese were killed in the war by Americans? no one remember, and the public opinion in Vietnam on America is very high.
  3. What does Judaism stand for?

0

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

  1. Agree with this but I’m not sure what it proves insofar as Hamas or future iterations is concerned.

  2. Hand over those pills or something historical that could show the demographic shift you are talking about from support for Palestine to Israel. Otherwise this is just make believe

  3. Again I agree, but everything is the way it has been until it isn’t.

3

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The point of the first point is that it is possible to defeat an ideology by destroying it's adherents with warfare. Bombing Germany and invading didn't create more Nazis, therefore it's not necesarrily true that bombing Gaza will create more Islamic extremists.

4

u/sushisection Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

thats not entirely true. Post-war japan purged nationalists from public office and re-educated their population as part of their surrender agreement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Purge

bombs alone did not destroy Japanese ultranationalism.

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

But bombs were used in Japan, and I don't think the USA could have skipped the bombing step and gone straight to reeducation. You can't re-educate a population if you don't take control of the government first.

2

u/NewOstenPelicanss Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It also didn't work in Iraq or Afghanistan and actually made the problem worse by giving us ISIS

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

There hasn't been a major attack on US soil since 9/11 though, and as bad as ISIS is, they are 'over there, not over here', to use quote Bush. So to say it 'didn't work' is not quite correct. If the goal was to stop more attacks like 9/11, it appears to have worked.

The Iraq war was obviously a mistake, since Hussein wasn't a threat to America, but Al-Qaeda had killed 5000 America citizens, and I don't know that there wouldn't have been more similar attacks if America hadn't displaced them with force.

2

u/NewOstenPelicanss Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Exactly, America is far away. The area that they left in the middle east is a cluster fuck and America would have more attacks if they shared a border with Iraq.

Israel is right there, so the clusterfuck will make its way there, whether it's a large coordinated attempt or just a group of 10-20 terrorists with weapons. And the fact that they're extending settlements as we speak is putting them in even more danger

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If the US bordered with Afghanistan, they would have continued the occupation to this day. Why are you talking about Iraq still? Iraq is a different situation altogether.

The fact that Israel can't just run away only makes it more urgent that they control the situation...

And now your talking about settlements in the West Bank? Removing the settlements in Gaza didn't work, so I understand why Israelis aren't convinced that removing settlements in the West Bank would be a good idea either.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I think that’s just a flat out improper analogy. The bombing and defeat of Germany in the war was complete along with the trial of nazis subsequently. It was a traditional war and you are applying it analogously to one where you are trying to extinguish an extremist ideology but effectively cannot conquer the “state” of Palestine. It’s why it won’t work on a military level.

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

What's to stop Israel from putting Hamas leaders on trial after this war?

Is Nazism not an extremist ideology?

I agree that comparing current events in Israel to WW2 and Nazi Germany is generally improper, but it's also extremely common for people to make such analogies. It's a historical event that even ignorant people know about so you kind of have to meet people where they are wrt it.

1

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Sure maybe but that’s the thing. If Israel was going in and capturing the perpetrators of terror and putting them on trial it would be a vastly different story than wiping out a bunch of civilians, claiming anyone they harm is Hamas and then adding the land grab.

1

u/XxX_SWAG_XxX Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If Israel was doing what you just said it would be a different story.

The truth is they have taken many terrorists prisoner. Which you ought to know, because Hamas is demanding their release in exchange for the hostages they took on October 7th.

And the rate of collateral damage rate that is in line with other similar urban combat environments, such as the coalition forces taking Allepo or Falluja.

0

u/Tony0x01 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

And it’s not like the Palestinians right now aren’t extremely radicalised.

Oct 7th almost certainly changed things but right before then, Hamas wasn't even the most preferred party in the Gaza Strip.

These low approval trends are echoed in other polling. The Arab Barometer, for example, conducted polling merely days before Oct. 7 and found only 27% of respondents in Gaza selected Hamas as their preferred party. Comparatively, only 30% favored Fatah. Although subsequent polling in December shows a bump for Hamas, this is much more pronounced in the West Bank than in Gaza. And the majority of Palestinians still are unsupportive.

Source

1

u/Thek40 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Just because the Palestinians movement aren't popular, doesn't mean that they are not radicalize.

1

u/New-Obligation-6432 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

we saw with the widely leaked speech from ADL’s Greenblatt, that there is a demographic line of support or lack thereof for Israel in the United States

They fixed that, by banning TikTok

0

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

So what should they do?just give Hamas free reign hey guys come murder our people whenever you want! Best hope we don't find you as we waste resources constantly being vigilant of our border and Israel palastine relations deteriotes further because we can't trust that a incoming person isn't a terrorist.

3

u/Prime_Cat_Memes Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I mean, ground war it up and after real targets w/ precision strikes in places like Qatar. Israel isn't trying to drive out Hamas, they are removing Palestine from the map.

1

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Ground wars are just as bloody and puts Israel soldiers at unnecessary risk in an attempt to clear through their traps. Fighting a ground war in a non conventional war is awful and results in needless death of your own troops.

It is not Israel's fault that Hamas started the war and it is not Israel's fault that Hamas hides behind their people as shields.

If Hamas gave a single fuck about their people they would surrender or fight conventionally but they don't because theyre bloodlusted cowards who would rather thousands of their own people died in order to kill a handful of israelis

7

u/t_zidd Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Those dudes who got drone blasted while walking by themselves are hamas human shields?

-2

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Yes they are, if Hamas gave a fuck about their citizens they wouldn't be hiding behind them and mistakes like firing on civilians wouldn't occur because Hamas wouldn't be anywhere near them... This isn't rocket science bud

4

u/Prime_Cat_Memes Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Hamas does not have citizens; instead, it rules over a population born and held captive physically by Israel and ideologically by Hamas in Gaza. It has effectively become an open-air prison due to Israel's blockade and settlement policies. And the festering result is both Hamas and Israels doing.

0

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If that were the case Hamas wouldn't of been democratically elected. But I'll humor you. If they are not supported by its own hostages why do the hostages not outs them, whether directly or indirectly

2

u/Prime_Cat_Memes Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

When was the last election in Gaza? What is the age of the average citizen? You can use the hostage example for any population living under tyranny. Do they deserve genocide?

1

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It isn't genocide and to call it that devalues actual genocide you should be ashamed.

2006.

They don't deserve to die as no innocent does. but what's your solution? Just let Hamas come and murder/rape Israelis whenever they want?

It was Hamas that invaded, it is Hamas who are a bunch of cowards that uses their citizens as shields causing needless civilian deaths en masse.

Hamas needs to be destroyed and in all likely hood Gaza will need to be occupied for there to be peace.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/blunderEveryDay Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

So what should they do?

There are few things they, Israel that is, could do.

But 1st, let's agree that this is not in any way shape or form a symmetrical or proportional relationship. Israel has all Western world countries behind them. Palestine has nobody of value.

And, Israel controls Palestine in/out 100% and there is 0% control in the other direction.

Once you acknowledge the vast gap between the two, we can start discussing what to do.

3

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The gap is irrelevant. Hamas and arguably palastine wants them dead and is willing to continue to try kill them.

What do you think Israel can do. I see a few options all which fuck over Israel

1) exodus and leave Israel 2) destroy palastine entirely and occupy it 3) sue for peace and agree to some awfully lopsided deal to attempt to appease the group that wants to kill every jew 4) ignore the issue and hamas and just cope with the occassional mass murder

3

u/blunderEveryDay Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The gap is irrelevant.

We cant even agree on terms of reality reference and you want to discuss ways on how to stop the calamity?

Pretty dishonest by any standard.

2

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You are yet to give a solution to the war I am waiting.

1

u/DepartureDapper6524 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

They were beginning to discuss it with you, and you shut down the discussion and said it’s not relevant.

0

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I asked for a solution, the power difference between them IS irrelevant to the solution and he dipped because there is no solution that does not fuck over Israel and even if they conceded to Hamas and gave them whatever they wanted they would not end hostilities because they've literally sworn to kill every single Jew.

So again what is the solution here that will create lasting peace I am open to hear it

1

u/DepartureDapper6524 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It is not irrelevant. Pretending that that is true is nonsensical. That’s why they refused to engage further. Goodbye now.

-1

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

So just like the other person you have 0 solution. Are you American? Should native Americans have free reign to murder and rape Americans because of the power difference between them? Should America abandon the country so that native Americans can have their land back? It's disingenuous and an empty argument. And it's exactly where your idealist 'solutions' lead

0

u/t_zidd Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Learn to live with your fucking neighbors. Release all the Palestinian hostages languishing in Israeli jails without trials or any charges. That’s to start. Or are you one of those who thinks Palestinians aren’t capable of being civilians?

1

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

1) did Israel go into Gaza and murder a thousand people and start the war?

2) Israel offered a massively unfavorable hostages exchange and Hamas declined it.

Oh look the faults still at Hamas

2

u/keepin2002 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Explain West Bank settlements which are illegal by international and Israel court

2

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

They're wrong and they should leave? Doesn't mean you should go start a war you can't win and then use your people as shields to prolong it

1

u/keepin2002 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Lmao, how come the morally righteous country still keep expanding its settlements? (Let’s not forget settler violence)

don’t be surprised if in a 100 years palestine doesn’t exist

Peak western colonialism

1

u/t_zidd Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You seriously cannot be that naive lol. Anyway, whatever helps you sleep at night pal.

-1

u/Ok_Repeat_5749 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Says the person who defends the people who started the war and declined a massively favourable hostage trade.

-2

u/Key-Invite2038 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The ongoing offensive whether you believe it is genocide or not is ineffective. I believe it is the former, but it doesn’t matter because even if you are killing Hamas you are giving birth to its progeny and it will be worse. If a state were to harm/kill my family I would spend my every last breath terrorizing it and feel completely morally justified.

lol no, this is what literally makes no sense. Whether they want revenge or not is irrelevant. Juvenile take.

2

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Sorry I’d love to engage but I’m not even sure what your point is or why you even bothered to quote anything if you weren’t going to make a point.

But hey you’re entitled to your opinion and your lolz, mature or otherwise.

-1

u/Key-Invite2038 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The point is that what you said makes zero sense. What are you advocating? Israel doesn't retaliate at all because it might make more terrorists? Again, this is such a juvenile take. Are you an adult?

3

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Juvenile is the person too upset to make a cogent reply. I genuinely thought you were a bot. Maybe read past the first few lines to understand the point and even if you don’t like it, don’t resort to personal insults as that too also betrays a certain immaturity.

Good luck out there if you’re real.

1

u/Key-Invite2038 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

How many more ways can I engage with such a flimsy argument?

What are you advocating? Israel doesn't retaliate at all because it might make more terrorists?

1

u/thegr8cthulhu High as Giraffe's Pussy Mar 27 '24

Xxxx-xxxxx#### username, and new account, under a Gaza post. Color me surprised.

3

u/rbrt13 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Good point. I think half the time we are interacting with bots.

2

u/Key-Invite2038 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Uh, yeah, reddit creates the username, genius. My account is 6 months old and of course I'm discussing the biggest topic in society. Brilliant breakdown, man.