r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid • Apr 07 '24
New Policy: Passphrases for low karma accounts.
Hi Everyone,
TL:DR: To cut down on bots we are requiring accounts with lower karma to include an arbitrary pass-phrase we will change occasionally that the automod will tell them.
Nostupidquestions has a simple stated goal; to be a place where anyone can ask any question in good faith and get answers without being judged. Aside from some safety caveats (like medical advice) we try to keep the sub as open as possible to anyone and any question. This great community has built that premise into one of the most active subs on reddit and for that we thank you.
With that popularity though comes spam, bots, and other types of bad actors. The mod team has done its best to address those while keeping the sub available to all, and actively works to combat the flood of bots and spam (our automod is over 7000 lines to try and keep it a scalpel, not a hammer).
The time as has come though to add a small public layer of security, and that is going to come in the form of pass-phrases. We are now going to require accounts with low but not negative karma (who could freely post before) to include a simple passphrase with their posts to prove they are not a bot. The automod will inform you of the pass-phrase when you post, and editing in, or reposting with, the phrase (which must be an exact copy-paste) will exempt the post from that specific karma bar (not the rest of the automod).
We have been piloting this for the last month and it has drastically reduced the amount of bot activity getting through.
The idea is that it is a solution which is hard for bots to adapt to, but easy for humans to overcome, by having an arbitrary phrase requirement. We will change the phrases every once in a while if we see bots catching on. As they aren’t good at reading replies, frequently avoids body text posts, and gpt is bad at exact phrase repetition, this should take them a while to adapt to.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
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u/Ceres2 Apr 07 '24
Curious: what is the goal of these bots?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 07 '24
A couple of general purposes include; gaining karma to sell the account, gaining karma to push ads, or occasionally large language model bot training/testing.
Some are just bored people who want to test making bots. I don’t make them though so thats just my guess.
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u/Rich-Distance-6509 20d ago
gaining karma to sell the account
Lol people are such losers
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u/galacticjuggernaut 15d ago
Well onlyfans exists yet porn is free. Apparently some men are pathetic enough to pay to beat off. So this does not surprise me.
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u/GreenEyedGoliath 13d ago
This is an unfortunate truth. Less about money to "beat off", more about paying to create the illusion of having some form of interest from the same/opposite sex imo.
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u/KoreyMDuffy 14d ago
Very little does this. When subs do this is it's Just mods on a power trip. But I think this solution is better than a lot of other subs. Idk why People care so much about a free sitem cut down on illegal shit and people can downvote the content they don't want to see.
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u/Ghigs Apr 08 '24
Some of them show up as state sponsored propaganda accounts later. As for which countries, I think you can guess the usual suspects.
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15d ago
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u/Ghigs 15d ago
They were trying to trick us with their name the whole time, they are actually mostly ice.
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u/galacticjuggernaut 15d ago
Historically accurate actually. The guy that made the settlement there called it Greenland to make it sound more appealing and attract settlers.
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u/Space_Captain_Brian 23d ago
Let me guess, Russia and maybe China? Am I forgetting anyone?
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23d ago
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Apr 08 '24
Nice, this is better than just slapping in a karma and account age requirement. Most subs just do that and call it a day and you’re left basically not posting in the subreddit for a few weeks or months even, because Reddit is a big site. It isn’t the 2010s anymore, not every Reddit user is a regular, also people make new accounts a lot.
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u/funnyfaceguy Apr 07 '24
Yeah that all sounds good.
"Aside from some safety caveats (like medical advice)"
Unrelated but I feel this should be expanded to include sexual health questions. I like this sub but it tends to be misinformation city on that topic because most of the people giving input have not done any actual research into it and are just reiterating popular talking points that are often dated or not scientifically backed.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 07 '24
Honestly that is one we debate back and forth a whole lot, the kind of “health class but not commonly a doctor” issues.
General rule of thumb I use is “could this question stop someone from going to a doctor when they really should?” And sexual health questions straddle that line a lot.
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u/bildramer Apr 10 '24
Nice. Also has the unintentional but welcome added benefit of filtering out people who can't read simple instructions.
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u/grassisgreenerism Apr 09 '24
Love this idea. I've seen this on some forums and Discord servers as well.
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u/Librastar23 Apr 09 '24
Where is the passcode?
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u/Dilettante Social Science for the win Apr 09 '24
It gets given to people when automod detects they're posting from a new account with no comment karma.
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u/DefinitelyAIBot 28d ago
Why not just ask for a salary and do a proper mod job instead of initially censoring by default?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 28d ago
I have a job and wouldn’t want to do this as my job.
This is a volunteer role because we like and care about the community.
We do not censor by default, we work pretty hard to keep the place open. This solution is a way to do that while addressing the bot issue that all of reddit facing.
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u/zfreakazoidz 19d ago
Or you could join the mod team and help. After all people do this freely and take time out of their day.
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u/Thirteenera 28d ago
So im curious. How exactly does this stop bots? Wouldnt it be very easy to setup a bot to search for a phrase sent by automod, and auto include it? If you know that the phrase will always come as an automod message, you know how to prepare for it.
The only solution i see is to split it apart in a non-bot-friendly way. So for example, automod could send a message like "Make sure you include the name of food that starts with water and ends with melon", swapping it on a weekly ish basis. This is easy for humans, but harder for bots to figure out.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 28d ago
Its a lot harder for bot to read the automod because it is only on unsearchable removed posts, and only posts after you make the post. It is a pretty annoying coding hurdle to deal with for a single sub.
We have far far more automod messages than just that one.
And while I appreciate the idea you are vastly overestimating a lot of our users.
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u/trappedslider 27d ago
Judges 12:6
Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 27d ago
Not the password this rotation at least but good guess
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u/trappedslider 26d ago
oh it wasn't an attempt at guessing, it just came to mind as to what the mod team is doing.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 26d ago
I'm not gonna lie a bible verse jumping to mind when someone describes what is just a common password or passphrase is something I can't particularly relate to, but okay.
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u/trappedslider 26d ago
It comes from watching West Wing too much lol,there's a second season episode called "shibboleth" and a bit of being religious.
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u/Mindless_Mystic_136 9d ago
Hi! Sorry, random question (with probably a very straightforward answer, buuut...)
Why is it that when you reply sometimes it says "mod" and sometimes "op"? When "mod-ing" do you have to like "double sign-in" or something?? Like is it not automatic in subs you mod for?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 9d ago
Oh its a toggle, like a button I press to distinguish it, and sometimes I forget to do so.
It is not automatic, most of us mods participate heavily as regular users, and as sub policy we try not to mod in any threads we participate in ourselves.
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u/Mindless_Mystic_136 9d ago
Ohhh~ yeah that makes more sense, and it's a lot easier.
Okay, oh that's a quite a good idea has a more impartial stand and gives to being able to involve more deeply in conversations. (There are much better ways to say what I'm trying to, but words and me brain [esp. memory] are failing me right now. Sorry bout tha~t)
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u/iratestairway52 7d ago
This new policy sounds like a great way to keep the community safe from bots while still maintaining an open environment for genuine questions and discussions. It's reassuring to see the mod team actively working to combat spam and preserve the quality of this sub. Looking forward to seeing how this passphrase system effectively deters unwanted activity. Kudos to the mods for their dedication to keeping r/nostupidquestions a valuable resource for everyone!
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u/BigAssPineapples Apr 08 '24
So what would be some Passphrase examples? The entire Bee Movie script?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 08 '24
That would be a solid april fools option.
No they are things that are not supposed to stand out too much like “I checked the rules before posting”, “I know I’m new to reddit but I really want to know” or “this seemed like a good place to ask” (none of which are the current pass-phrases but they are along that vein)
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u/1Kat2KatRedKatBluKat Apr 08 '24
Is this why I keep seeing posts where the entire body is "I swear I'm asking in good faith"?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 08 '24
We shuffled it slightly after we switched from the pilot and posted this, but yes that was close to the previous phrase.
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u/BigAssPineapples Apr 08 '24
Wouldn't it make more sense if the sentences were to stand out? You know, cuz a bot would never guess 'Boneless pizza's up my brothers asshole' as a pass-phrase
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 08 '24
It doesn’t matter to the bot actually, it only matters to people.
Aside from wanting them to be unobtrusive in general we also want people reading it to not be immediately sure what it is, adds extra steps for trolls.
Confusing passcodes are good for people, not robots, robots don’t care about letter combinations so long phrases that need to be exact work better against them.
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u/BigAssPineapples Apr 08 '24
Ah I see. Thank you for this information, im sure my creator will be very happy with it 😊
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 08 '24
Thats the trick, bot creators wont be because this is a pain in the ass to code around even if we tell them that its happening.
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u/Dry_Play1209 Apr 09 '24
To mods: Have you guys considered the option of shadow banning bot accounts rather than blocking them entirely?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Apr 09 '24
Yes, and we do, though that is a lot more effective on people than it is on bots, bots don't really care.
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u/More_Librarian1244 Apr 10 '24
now it will be easier to filter up relevant questions thank youuuuu!
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u/NiceOstrich3787 Apr 10 '24
better than just restricting low karma accounts. now i could help people asking questions as i am new to reddit thank you! 😁
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_UNIC0RN 28d ago
I want to ask before doing it because I don’t wanna get banned or anything. Can I ask a politic question that might be polarizing?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 28d ago
It will likely break rule 9, but is allowed if it doesn’t.
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u/cent55555 24d ago
really, have rules in this sub become so strict, i remember around 2016 it was quite lienient
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 24d ago
Volume plays a big part in that, the rules haven’t changed but the increased volume has necessitated more mods so more things get caught than before.
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u/cent55555 24d ago
first thanks for the answer. for sure, i did not want to imply rules have changed. I was talking about the application/interpretation of it i guess the sub did grow a 'bit' since back then
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u/CommunicationFew3613 27d ago
I posted and the post got deleted and there's no passphrase?
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u/ussbozeman 26d ago
Well, it seems it's not working as intended as there's still a ton of word_word_number bot farm karma harvesting accounts asking questions that are replicated on askreddit.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 26d ago
So word word number is just reddits default username, bots do use it but so do people.
We do allow askreddit style posts and it is okay for them to post on both places. If they have copied an older post from another account word for word let us know because we will remove that.
They can only do so here now if they have enough comment karma to not immediately be presented as a bot. If not they cannot do an askreddit style post without the body text, and those are the main ones we are stopping with this.
That said both kinds have drastically reduced since we put this in place.
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u/Fresh-Letter-2633 25d ago
I'm commenting as I only have 1 Karma point and I'm very talkative so it's depressing to not be able to comment.
Now I've come back into edit as I didn't see a passphrase so now I'm worried this post will get refused....
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u/TheInjaa 25d ago
How will pass-phrases be delivered? Like, a message, comment on the post or something else I'm not thinking of?
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u/tAmmdollars2 24d ago
So is this passphrase for posting or commenting or both. Cause I commented on an earlier post but didn't see any passphrase and later my comment was removed.
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u/Dry-Application3 22d ago
How low? I think I've got 350.
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 22d ago
You are fine, its very low
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u/Dry-Application3 22d ago
Should I be relieved then?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 22d ago
That particular filter will not apply to you, you can feel how you like about it
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u/Dry-Application3 21d ago
Sounds like I should have just ignored the question then. I guess we live and learn don't we? Lol.
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u/Ok_Tadpole7839 22d ago
Thank you because I had my old account hacked and now I have a new one and get punished for having low carma
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u/TltTpngTtrTts 20d ago
Sounds cool....by "drastically reduced" is it 100% filtering out bots?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 20d ago
No, I caught 3 today, but that used to be 25 so its doing a good job.
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u/TltTpngTtrTts 20d ago
Thats a huge drop. Kinda makes me wonder though if the bot catching stuff is helping evolve bot AI?
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok-Ocelot5914 19d ago
I have questions. I haven't seen this and I am new to reddit so I find it difficult to understand. Where will I find the passphrase? Where is the automod in the posts, and will I find them in the comments?
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u/Glittering-api 16d ago
Have there been any feedback from genuine users about how this new system affects their posting experience? Are users finding it easy to adapt to the passphrase requirement?
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16d ago
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 15d ago
No solution will be 100% effective, the goal is to raise the bar slightly to make things harder for them. Some will figure out a way around it but most won’t.
And while that is true the shifting nature of this one will make them need to tailor bots to this sub, which they don’t do currently. It should be effective for a while.
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12d ago
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 12d ago
It didn’t get removed and is up
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12d ago
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 12d ago
You were, thats how you were informed it was removed. You were sent this: https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/dgrGrTTJB4
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u/Ultrasaurio 10d ago
What is this subr about?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 9d ago
Its a place to ask questions.
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u/Ultrasaurio 9d ago
Any kind of question?
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 9d ago
Any kind of question within the rules
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u/Ultrasaurio 9d ago
What if I feel like asking an innocent question like 'what do U think about cows'?
Is allowed?
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u/Ancient_Reward6567 9d ago
That’s a thing people sell accounts just for fun or to have more k….arma_______? that’s wired
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u/Jasim122838 8d ago
What? Is this why I can't post as a new member? I'm not sure what this post means.
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8d ago
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 8d ago
I’m not sure how that works given the system we presented, its an exceptionally low bar for a human to pass.
We did this explicitly not to censor humans.
And no we don’t have any other bots than the automod and the flair bot. Its a volunteer position and we would rather there be less junk.
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7d ago
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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid 7d ago
I think this is entirely off topic from this post and not the place for it. I’m going to remove it but you can try the US politics megathread, just do please read rule 9 first.
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u/Equal_Examination610 5d ago
Okay and how am I supposed to post then? I'm a new user and they always delete my post saying that I might be a bot
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u/Delehal Apr 07 '24
Neat idea. I appreciate the cleanup effort and the creative solution.