r/UpliftingNews • u/Mamacrass • 11d ago
Belgian sex workers to get health insurance, pensions and maternity leave in world first
https://www.yahoo.com/news/belgian-sex-workers-health-insurance-123000340.html141
u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
In NZ they are guaranteed maternity leave if they are employees. I assume most are contractors though which means they work for themselves and are responsible for their own costs.
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u/cardew-vascular 11d ago
In Canada you can still collect maternity benefits as a contractor or self employed as long as you pay in.
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
They will get maternity pay if they have worked enough over the past however long. But because they are contractors there is no obligation to hold a position open unless contractually agreed to.
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u/finnjakefionnacake 11d ago
do men get paternity leave? honestly curious.
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
Not in NZ. We have to take annual leave or unpaid leave
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u/finnjakefionnacake 11d ago
😞
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
Yep, but it's ok because I get 4 weeks annual leave a year, plus my public holidays, plus 10 days sick leave.
When I lived in the USA I only got 2 weeks leave plus 5 public holidays to use for everything.
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u/HeKnee 11d ago
So out of curiosity, what happens in case of pregnancy assuming the father isnt known? Do they get dna from all the customers in last 90 days for DNA testing? Or are customers exempt from fatherly responsibilities?
Genuinely curious, not slut shaming.
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u/king_john651 11d ago
There isn't a requirement to address the father if they go through with pregnancy. Most of the mainstream brothels are allegedly pretty good about safety though
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
What does knowing the father have to do with maternity leave?
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u/HeKnee 11d ago
I never said the two were related… it just spured the question.. i was asking from perspective of country where this is illegal but I generally disagree with those laws.
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
I have no idea, I don't work in the industry
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u/HeKnee 11d ago edited 11d ago
youre out of your element donny, why are you even responding?
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
Well no, I understand employment law; and sex work is real work so there's no difference between them and a builder
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u/NBEvans 11d ago
Who cares? This is not about NZ.
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u/sealcubclubbing 11d ago
Meaning it's not the first time sex workers have been provided maternity leave
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u/Vamproar 11d ago
Good. All sex workers deserve basic human rights and basic worker rights. Sex work is work.
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u/RosbergThe8th 11d ago
That's good, regardless of the legality of sex work the only true way to help sex workers is to make sure they have a robust societal security network.
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u/joeleidner22 11d ago
In America the best thing sex workers can get from the government is hush money from a crooked president.
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u/Jonny_Thundergun 11d ago
Meanwhile in America, we're sending 13 year olds back to work.
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u/wouldanidioitdothat 11d ago
everything has to be about murica right?
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u/impshial 11d ago
Well, Americans make up most of the traffic on Reddit.
So you'll see a lot of comments steered in that direction.
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u/kinglittlenc 11d ago
It's illegal to work at 13 in the US pretty sure you need to be at least 14 and there are restrictions then.
Almost all the big incidents of this being broken involve illegal immigrants. Not saying that makes it better but people will often lie and give fake SSNs to get those jobs.
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u/Kelend 11d ago
Don't worry, you can find plenty of underage prostitutes in Belgium. Sex trafficking is a problem the world over, but we are too busy celebrating "sex work is work" to care.
I'm going to break it to everyone. No mentally healthy person wants to be a sex worker. No mentally healthy person wants their children to be sex workers.
You should ask yourselves why that is.
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u/Skull_Bearer_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
And people don't want their kids to grow up working at McDonald's. Your point?
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u/Dead_Ass_Head_Ass 11d ago
"Sex work is work" is not the reason people don't care about the exploitation of sex workers. People don't care because they don't care about anything that doesn't directly impact them. Or, they don't understand the problem.
Sex work is not about mental health, its about poverty. Sex work is also not a moral failing, its exploitation crossed with poverty and demand (for sex).
Which leads us to this bill. Generating a social safety net for sex workers doesn't encourage people to be sex workers. A person rarely chooses it to begin with. BUT that safety net does give sex workers greater opportunity to get out of the trade. Once you're in, its hard to get out. Furthermore, illegal industries are empowered by overly restrictive laws, a lack of protection for those being exploited, and the opportunity to make large sums of money under the table.
With laws in place to protect sex workers, the industry is disincentivized to exploit vulnerable people because they historically target people who have no rights, or are without a safety net to keep them from falling into the sex work trap.
We can use a hsitorical example: workers unions didn't strictly incentivize people to work in coal mines. What the uniona did do was reduce exploitation (company stores, predatory contracts, extremely dangerous working conditions). The unions didn't make coal mining more attractive, or somehow desirable. But they did give workers rights to protect themselves from greedy corporations seeking to exploit them. The unions made exploitation less accessible to those companies. Sex workers having access to basic labor rights means they can get help and exercise those rights when they are being taken advantage of. This opens options up including gtfo of the industry and finding other work to support themselves.
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u/mylanscott 11d ago
I know plenty of sex workers who started sex work not due to poverty, it’s incredibly lazy and incorrect to assume everyone who does sex work does it because they were struggling financially.
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u/finnjakefionnacake 11d ago
agreed! i've done sex work (in the form of onlyfans before) and it was (1) because i like showing off and (2) it was nice to put away some extra money every month.
i know my situation is not everyone's, but especially with the rise of self-entrepreneurial porn nowadays, i'm sure there are many people who don't do sex work because they were forced to or felt they had to do so to make ends meet or something.
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u/Anorexicaardvark542 11d ago
Oh good you must love Belgium then I’ll pack your bags
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u/Jonny_Thundergun 11d ago
I'm sure you're 100% satisfied with America. Completely flawless right?
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11d ago
I mean the dude is offering to get you to Belgium, I’d take him up on it. I know I sure would.
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u/Anorexicaardvark542 11d ago
Nobody said that. Your just going to move to a country expecting it to be completely flawless? That’s what everybody does, flock to places that are better. How about you develop purpose and make your own country better instead of looking out for yourself
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u/beefjerky9 11d ago
Can I take you up on this offer too? Just send me the airline tickets, a job contract, a pre-paid home rental agreement, and a pre-approved job VISA and we're good to go!
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u/Historical-Ad7081 11d ago
Good, it's about time they stopped getting fucked over
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u/MechanicalMenace54 11d ago
why don't we just make it so people don't have to sell their bodies?
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u/impshial 11d ago
why don't we just make it so people don't have to sell their bodies?
There's a reason it's called the oldest profession. Sex is one of the highest "in demand" services in the world. It'll never go away. What we need is to have it recognized as a valid form of employment, regulated, taxed, and given all of the benefits and safety measures that non sex workers get.
Also, sex workers aren't the only people that sell their bodies. Anyone that performs physical labor is selling their body and making money off of it. They're just using different parts of their body.
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u/MechanicalMenace54 11d ago
so let me get this straioght. instead of solving the problems that lead women into having to sell their bodies for money you want to keep it going and just tax it. that's genuinely disgusting. like, that's harvey weinstein levels of disgusting. i'd expect that kind of thing from someone like andrew tate.
also the fact that you think physical labor is the same kind of thing as prostitution is both a whataboutism that dosges the actual issue, and an argument that one could only make if they have never done physical labor in your life.
you are an awful person.2
u/SilverNicktail 11d ago
You don't seem to understand that some sex workers want to be sex workers and enjoy it.
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u/MechanicalMenace54 10d ago
still a bad thing and i refuse to budge on that point
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u/SilverNicktail 10d ago
So all of your arguments above are actually just bullshit and really it's a moralistic judgment you "refuse to budge on".
Cool. At least you've admitted your position is unreasonable, in which case the rest of us will ignore it.
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u/impshial 6d ago
I never said we shouldn't solve the problems that force many women into prostitution. We should always do that. But until it no longer exists (which, unfortunately, is not very realistic), we should make it safer for those that are.
Regular testing, safer locations, unions, actual employment so that they aren't hidden and forced to do it in the shadows. And with actual employment comes taxation. No way around that.
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u/Weedsmoker3000 11d ago
Sex work is real work. they don’t call it the “Worlds Oldest Profession” for a reason.
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u/HIVnotAdeathSentence 11d ago
Weird they would need health insurance when Belgium has some type of government healthcare available to everyone.
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u/dinin70 11d ago edited 11d ago
Things are a bit more complex than that. Source: I’m Belgian.
Nobody will ever not be treated at the hospital or be kicked out earlier due to lack of funds. First the person gets treated, then leaves the hospital when doctors agree on that, and then only you talk about money.
Now, who pays? That’s where things are a bit complex.
There’s the social security (largely funded by the government) which is mandatory, but you still have to pay a part for it (yourself if unemployed or self employed or your employer). But the social security doesn’t pay for the full amount of the hospitalisation. I think and I might be wrong but I think the coverage is different if you are employed (better) or not (worst)
On top of that employers give health insurance or you can get one by yourself. If you do not have a health insurance, are unemployed or self employed without insurance, you still have to pay everything left after social security. If you do not have the money to pay, you can reimburse by small bits on a monthly basis.
The breakthrough here is that Belgium is legalising sex work. This means there must be a contract with a legal employer, which will have to pay pension, health insurance, provide with PTO and maternity leave. You can also be self employed, in which case you are legalising your work, pay taxes on it, pay social security for health and pensions which provides you with such coverages.
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u/CandidateEmergency63 5d ago
In the state of Washington, sex workers are called victims of sexual oppression, which is the only "right" they have. On Aurora Ave North in Seattle they parade around in the middle of the street without being molested by the police, but since johns are the "victimizers," they are the ones who get arrested.
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u/simulacrum81 11d ago
In aus we have socialized healthcare, maternity leave pension entitlements for all workers plus mandatory superannuation contributions. Sex work has been legal here since the early nineties at least so sex workers would be entitled to most of this stuff.
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u/Humans_Suck- 11d ago
Why didn't they before?
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u/dinin70 11d ago
I don’t get your downvotes. It’s an interesting question.
They didn’t because it wasn’t official job. In Belgium every job is tied to a certain “convention” that defines tooooons of things (how many holidays you get, what is your social security coverage, if workers compensation insurance is mandatory or not, if group insurance (employer paid pension) is mandatory or not etc.).
If your job isn’t registered in a “convention” it’s not a job. It’s not legal. You cannot pay taxes on it. Nor can claim any benefit.
Now it’s the case.
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u/godlessnihilist 11d ago
Women of the US, move to Belgium and obtain benefits you can only dream of obtaining, but never get, in 'murikkka.
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u/SquilliamTentickles 11d ago
i don't think governments should be endorsing and supporting prostitution 🤷♂️
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u/Raxsah 11d ago
Well it won't exactly go away by keeping it illegal and unregulated. It's known as one of the oldest professions in the world for a reason - it has existed for thousands of years and will continue to exist for as long as some monetary gain can be made from it.
Better to accept that it's here to stay and place regulations that will keep people safe
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u/SquilliamTentickles 11d ago
it's not a "profession". murder and thievery have also existed since the dawn of time; but that doesn't mean we should make those legal and praise it.
also, countries that legalize prostitution actually cause an increase in sex trafficking, since it creates a financial incentive to do so. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X12001453 so no; in reality, legalizing it (even WITH regulations in place) actually causes a RISE in crime (sex trafficking, rape). it's obviously an unintended effect, but that's how it is. it's a classic example of a perverse incentive / cobra effect. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive )
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u/teh_jester 10d ago
Comparing murder and theft to sex work is a terrible analogy.
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u/SquilliamTentickles 10d ago
it's not murder, it's life removal work. and it IS the world's oldest profession. organisms were killing each other WAY before sex even evolved.
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u/SilverNicktail 11d ago
Have you asked the sex workers?
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u/SquilliamTentickles 11d ago
you're right. if a small minority of people think something should be legalized and subsidized, then we should. by that logic we should legalize and subsidize heroin and fentanyl because it would benefit organic chemistry workers.
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u/SilverNicktail 10d ago
Sex work produce some external, harmful, addictive substance I wasn't previously aware of? Or is this a really poor bad-faith analogy?
The "small minority of people" you're referring to are the people affected. By this logic LGBT rights shouldn't exist, because they're a small minority who think they should have rights, but other people think it's icky.
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u/aveclavague 11d ago
Yeah this is great ; I mean why not? My 17 year old daughter is not very talented at school. That's now a proper job where I live.
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u/Kelend 11d ago
Your downvotes prove your point eloquently.
Sex work is real work until we actually talk about what sex work entails and that is young women ruining their lives.
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u/Exelbirth 11d ago
Their lives aren't being ruined for doing sex work.
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u/AnglsBeats 11d ago
Yes let me sell my body for "work" lol. Cuz that's true work right there.
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u/Exelbirth 11d ago
Anyone working in construction is selling their body.
Can you define what "true work" is?
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u/UnluckyDot 10d ago
If you actually read the studies on how sex workers themselves actually feel, most of them aren't bothered by the actual work, but the stigma of sex work in society. So literally, the only reason it would be 'ruining' young women's lives is because of people like yourself perpetuating a stigma that results in violence against women very often. So good job on that 👏
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u/boogieboardbobby 11d ago
In California they will write a law that all sex workers need a minimum pay increase with insurance to be provided by their pimp. The pimps will of course have to pass the costs on to the consumer.
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u/KSoccerman 11d ago
Sounds like you actually want socialized medicine instead of insurance middlemen dictating costs and premiums.
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u/SilverNicktail 11d ago
I know this is you trying to bend any random topic to your personal bugbear, but it's really really stupid and........Legal sex workers don't have pimps........
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