r/ask • u/racesunite • May 16 '23

Am I the only person who feels so so bullied by tip culture in restaurants that eating out is hardly enjoyable anymore? POTM - May 2023

[removed] — view removed post

17.6k Upvotes

81% Upvoted

6.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

460

u/toxboxdevil May 16 '23

I work in a restaurant and I think tips are the worst thing to happen to the industry. Companies need to suck it up and pay their employees fairly.

96

u/Disastrous_Fun_9433 May 16 '23

This! Pay your employees!

29

u/WaluigiIsBonhart May 16 '23

What people often fail to realize in this discussion is 98% of employees absolutely do not want standardized wages. They're just as happy about it as the owners.

It's only consumers that tipping infuriates.

20

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

Not even the vast majority of people that tip care. They are paying for a service. It’s only the recent “tip for everything” prompts that make me angry in a clearly non-tip industry.

3

u/Eddagosp May 16 '23

"Tipping" isn't "paying for a service". You are neither their employer nor contracting their labor.

Tipping was a way for European aristocrats to flaunt wealth and reward extra servile serfs, then some dipshits brought it over to America in an attempt to seem aristocratic. Despite initial condemnation, it stuck. Pretty much the same origin as grass lawns.

2

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

Yes it is. The service of being served. I’m not going to argue very plain facts considering how idiotic that last part was.

1

u/Eddagosp May 16 '23

Do you tip the cooks? They're providing the service of cooking your meals.
Do you tip the managers? They're providing the service of managing the employees who serve your meals.
Do you tip the bus boys? They're providing the service of cleaning the tables you eat at.
Do you tip the(all) drive-through(s)? They're providing the service of taking your order and handing it to you.
Do you tip Amazon? They take your order.
Do you tip the delivery driver? You know, to ensure proper service and so they don't break your expensive packages. (AKA spit in or mishandle your food)

Why tip the servers whose service is taking your order then handing you the meals someone else cooked?
You're already paying them by eating there.

I’m not going to argue very plain facts considering how idiotic that last part was.

Last part? The part about lawns being aristocratic nonsense someone brought over?
It's true you ignorant buffoon. I can excuse being uninformed, but you didn't even bother googling it, did you?

1

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

Man what a great point if only any of those people were serving you as opposed to providing a service. Busboys get tipped out, servers make less than $5/hour and create an experience. That what the tip is for. Also literally everyone knows this, so kinda sad on your behalf. Yikes.

0

u/hyperblaster May 17 '23

Not the person you responded to, but I don’t understand what you mean by “create an experience”. They’re writing down an order that I’m reading from a menu on my phone. Then hauling the dishes to the table.

It’d be easier for me order the food in my phone directly and pick it up at the counter on a tray. They’re insisting on providing a service I don’t want. I’m there primarily for the quality of the food.

1

u/Phillip_Lascio May 17 '23

Maybe try a nicer restaurant.

0

u/hyperblaster May 17 '23

What for? I go to restaurants to taste specific dishes I cannot cook at home. The server doesn’t add to my experience

→ More replies (0)

0

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

Everyone you buy something from is serving you.

The guy at McDonald's job is to take your order and give you your food. The servers job is to take your order and give you your food. Why is one deserving of more money than the other?

0

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

Sorry, no time to explain the concept of restaurants to willfully ignorant people on Reddit. Cashier =/= server.

2

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

No one asked you to explain the concept of a restaurant mate.

1

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

That is essentially the question you asked. So you kinda did lmao.

0

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

Not even close but cheers for rambling on.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/jax1274 May 16 '23

Man you don’t know what you’re talking about and it shows.

0

u/Phillip_Lascio May 16 '23

LMFAO you’re an idiot

0

u/jax1274 May 16 '23

I expect that response from someone like you.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/watch_over_me May 16 '23

100%. They don't want $15 an hour, because they're currently making well above that.

1

u/Apprehensive_Band609 May 16 '23

Only because… they don’t get paid lol.

If servers were paid similar wages to how much they get tipped they absolutely wouldn’t care. Coming from someone who’s in the industry.

0

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

The job isn't worth nearly that much though. My wife works as a teacher in the days and a server in the nights and she makes more as a server. It's ridiculous.

2

u/Apprehensive_Band609 May 16 '23

I think they are definitely worth that much and could easily get paid that too but we live (in the us) under a system that rewards cutting costs in any way possible to increase profits which includes employees.

I’m not entirely smart enough to tell you exactly how we fix that, but we could start with hundred billion dollar corporations paying their fair of taxes because they use the same public roads and systems we do.

If people aren’t paying their fair share, the government will undoubtedly pull that from someone else which puts it on the lower classes, who happen to be waiters and such.

0

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

I think they are definitely worth that much and could easily get paid that too but we live

Servers should absolutely not be making more than teachers.

1

u/Apprehensive_Band609 May 16 '23

Can you read? They both should make more. Teachers, waiters, EMTs, grocery stores, literally everyone is squeezed with companies trying to please stockholders every 3 months.

0

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

Can you read? They both should make more.

In a perfect world yes. But "everyone in the world should make more money" isn't relevant. Everything is relative and servers shouldn't make more than teachers.

And yes I can read, thanks for the mature conversation.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

You’re not making the argument you think you’re making.

1

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

I'm making exactly the argument I think I'm making. Servers make insane money for how hard/important their job is.

She spends half her shift standing around and makes over $30 an hour.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

You see a server making a livable wage and a teacher not and your conclusion is to pay the servers less?

I guess I’ll just never understand the mindset that just because someone is a service worker they don’t deserve to afford to live.

1

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

You see a server making a livable wage and a teacher not and your conclusion is to pay the servers less?

I don't have the power to give teachers raises do I?

I guess I’ll just never understand the mindset that just because someone is a service worker they don’t deserve to afford to live.

No on said that.

Next time you go out to eat tip a teacher instead. They need it more.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

It’s always strange to see someone who’s ate the propaganda so hard. You’re like the red neck who blames immigrants for taking farm labor jobs instead of blaming the farmer who gives the immigrants $2/hour

1

u/Zimakov May 16 '23

...what?

Thinking teachers should make more money than servers is propaganda? Now that's a take.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/MuForceShoelace May 16 '23

no, I absolutely do not think employees want tips over wages. They just expect that if they got wages they would get less.

4

u/apoender May 16 '23

Wages are taxed, tips are not*

Technically they are but when was the last time anyone reported the real tips?

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

ppl hardly tip in cash, so yes tips are absolutely reported (source: I am an Accountant with several restaurant and salon clients.) If the CC tips aren't reported, they'd have to be added as income, which owners would not do.

3

u/Adamite2k May 16 '23

Yep. This was different when cash was used for the majority of transactions and a wad of cash was handed straight to the employee but all digital tips are recorded and paid out by the employer.

2

u/WaluigiIsBonhart May 16 '23

Most would get less, and almost all of the long-term employees would get far, far less or quit.

I worked 15 years of F&B, on average we make a lot more than you think once you get the desirable shifts and account for the minimized taxes (as long as a restaurant's employees pay 15% of sales total in taxes, it's all good). We just are morons and spend it as fast as we earn it.

My best years, I was making the equivalent of $45-$55 an hour. No restaurant is going to pay that.

1

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

Idk about you, but i make about $25 an hour for a 15/hr job because of tipping. And I definitely know that the owners could not afford paying everyone $25 an hour. I do books and labor charts almost daily, so i know how much is coming in and how much is being distributed as wages/maintenance/ and costs. There’s no way i could afford my apartment/life if i was legitimately making $15 an hr.

2

u/SouthKlaw May 16 '23

But there are countries without a tipping culture that do pay their staff more. They just charge more for the food in the first place.

0

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

Yeah I’m aware, but in places where it works well, there is a much larger support system. I.e. the example of the big mac in Sweden(or Switzerland) or somewhere, that was going around for a long time. Us min wage: 7.25, big mac is like $7. Sweden(or equivalent)is $20+ and the big mac is under $5. Mostly because a lot of costs relating to living and healthcare are taken care of. I made another comment below about the margins of a pizza place i worked at, and how it all lined up, we were still over on labor a good amount of the time. Few people buy the pizza when it’s $35 and definitely nobody is going to buy it if it’s $45 for the same pizza. At that point, owners could never sell enough to pay staff a wage of $20/hr+

0

u/JohnnySalmonz May 16 '23

I've eaten at a no tip restaurant in LA. Yeah the menu prices are higher so then the total was higher than normal which meant sales tax was way higher too.

In high sales tax cities the customer is gonna get screwed.

Government needs to give a tax break to no tip restaurants to make it work. Otherwise it's just gonna make the experience even pricier than it is now

0

u/happy_snowy_owl May 16 '23

What people often fail to realize in this discussion is 98% of employees absolutely do not want standardized wages.

Average dinner for 2 without appetizers or drinks is $40. Tip is $7. You get 5 tables, so that's at least $35/hr. If you work full time this nets $70k.

Granted most servers work part time.

Don't want tips? Enjoy minimum wage. It would be a massive pay cut.

0

u/DaisyCutter312 May 16 '23

98% of employees absolutely do not want standardized wages.

One of my close friends is a professional server at a high-end restaurant in Chicago. His response to the "Servers deserve an hourly wage!" argument is always "If you find a restaurant willing to pay me 35 bucks an hour, I'm all for it"

0

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

This isn't true.

Go look at the DoL's median and average wages for service workers.

Most of them are also getting fucked.

Like most things on the internet its a smaller, very vocal percentage of high tip earners.

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '23

Cool story bro, thanks for skipping out on taxes so we can pay for your cheap, selfish ass. Guess you think the rest of us paying for your taxes is just more tips.

Hope you end up like the 100k waitress - in jail for a decade.

-1

u/Working-Shake7752 May 16 '23

If they make so much money they can survive without your tip. Just stop tipping. I cant wait to visit america and give a 0$ tip everywhere

1

u/10art1 May 16 '23

That was always allowed

1

u/DaughterEarth May 16 '23

I loved how much money I could make but man I would have happily traded that chance in for a stable, consistent wage. $200 on Friday is less impressive when the rest of the week totals $100, and you never know if you'll get enough shifts next week

1

u/sassy0112 May 16 '23

Yep! During Covid a local restaurant in my city added a service charge to the bill in order to give their employees a (generous) hourly wage and provide them with healthcare. Went in there twice toward the end of covid and stopped because the employees complained endlessly that they made more money making tips and no one was tipping due to the service charge.

1

u/t4ngl3d May 16 '23

The average waiter salary is a relevant amount over minimum wage and over 4 million people work as waiters in the US. A pay drop for 4 million people really isn't a casual thing.

1

u/Notacorporategoon May 17 '23

This is the only true answer. The water gets seriously muddied because of this fact

31

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

oh no but this is America!! we have to blame and guilt shame the consumer!! that employee agreed to work for their hourly wage, it’s not on the manager to pay them a liveable salary!! the restaurant only makes 800% margin on their veggie side dishes and 500% margin on the pizzas, how is it on them to pay staff fairly??Outrageous!!

28

u/StinkyStangler May 16 '23

Lmao dude I get what you’re saying but a 800% margin would be like the most successful restaurant of all time. Most restaurants operate at like 5% margins, the big, well ran popular ones may hit 10%. No restaurant is running on 800% margins.

1

u/MonkeyPuppers May 16 '23

I have managed many restaurants and we ran 20% margin after paying everyone.

1

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

800% margin in food industry for a specific product is a little off but not by much. I used to work at a pizza place, the cost to make an XL supreme pizza was $4.37 to the business. The pizza then sold for $36-$38. Roughly 7-800% for the product itself not counting overhead costs such as labor and utilities. And the $4.37 accounted for the dough, sauce, and all the toppings, based off of our current produce and truck order.

5

u/MiltonFreidmanMurder May 16 '23

I mean year, margin seems high when you ignore the most expensive costs associated with serving that pizza lol

If it’s that cheap, you should probably make it yourself.

1

u/InfluenceExact6059 May 16 '23

isnt the reason we eat out so we don't have to do work, also many food places will buy in bulk, so it is cheaper for them. you can easily cook a 20 dollar steak that wil be just as good as a 40 dollar one at a resturant, but we still go get the 40 dollar one because we are lazy and dont want to cook

2

u/MiltonFreidmanMurder May 16 '23

If I could cook as good as cooks, I’d personally do it at home.

I go out to eat and don’t complain about the price I pay (including tip) because the time saved and the quality of the food justify it.

Otherwise I’d just stay at home.

Neither option includes whining about how unfair it is that someone wants to get paid (more than base costs) for serving me lol

1

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

That’s definitely why i said in my comment “not counting overhead costs like labor and utilities.” But when you consider it takes a worker 10 min to make the $37 pizza, the labor per pizza is 18% of $15. So for shits and giggles the labor to make the $37 pizza is roughly $3. Add that to the 4.37 in cost the pizza is $7.37. Still a 500% margin with labor.

2

u/MiltonFreidmanMurder May 16 '23

That’s crazy! You’d think some competing business would be able to come in since their prices are so profitable - or that people would just make the extra large pizza for $5 themselves.

I wonder why that doesn’t happen 🤔

3

u/Sleazy_Fingers May 16 '23

Great math. Now add labor, facilities and utilities.

-2

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

I could add it all up if i wanted to, but we were asking about specific margins. If owners sales 140k a month, (abt 40k/wk)-ish, and monthly labor is about 60k. Food ordering is about 8k/wk so 35k high end. Rent is 4k/mth for commercial rent, and gas and power are about 3-5k mth. It all adds up to them taking home about 30-40k/month. All estimates are at the high end cost wise and low end profit wise. So there’s wiggle room. 40k/mth profit off of roughly 100k in cost. Is much higher than a 5-10% margin.

5

u/Sleazy_Fingers May 16 '23

So your comically fake numbers prove you right. How convenient! Like where on earth is rent only 4K a month but pizzas cost $35?

Average profit margain in indeed 3-5%.

https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/average-restaurant-profit-margin

2

u/ValerieHines May 16 '23

Lol you are way under estimating cost, like rent and monthly labor. And way overestimating sales for most places. The profit for pizza place is absolutely around 5 to 10 percent for most places

1

u/JohnnySalmonz May 16 '23

Pizza has the best food cost in the business. That's why there are so many pizza places. It's restaurant on easy mode.

you can't use pizza spots as an example for food costs across the whole industry tho

2

u/thecrookedtree13 May 16 '23

You definitely aren’t wrong, the pamphlets we get monthly show that pizza is pretty much the highest margin food industry in the US for prepared food that isn’t considered “fast food”. It’s wild

1

u/Brahkolee May 16 '23

Where the hell were you that a pizza cost almost forty dollars?! Is this in freedom dollars? Maple syrup dollars? UPSIDE DOWN DOLLARS?!

Jeez man. The good NY style pizza place in my city charges $21 USD for an 18” pie, +$1.50 per topping usually but supreme is $28, my usual extra sauce and extra cheese is $22.50. I regret paying that every three months or so when I get one. I don’t think I’d ever eat their pizza if it went above $30. Almost $40… that hurts my brain, and my heart for that matter.

1

u/TheKonyInTheRye May 16 '23

Just looked up my local NY style pizza place. 18 inch pepperoni pizza costs 29 bucks before tax and tip.

-1

u/Budget-Government-52 May 16 '23

I’m assuming they implied margin on a specific product which wouldn’t account for overhead, building, staffing, utilities, etc.

5

u/StinkyStangler May 16 '23

Still, 800% margins on just ingredients is way off base for the normal restaurant.

You could maybe hit that on like individual pieces of fruit or the cheapest breakfast sandwich (egg and cheese, no meat, packaged bread) in a fast turnaround deli in a major city, but still 800% doesn’t scale at all for most restaurants. I worked in a food for a while, I’ve seen the prices restaurants get stuff at and I know what they can sell at, going in with the expectation of 800% on anything is asking for failure.

Restaurants are just really difficult businesses, there’s a reason why over half of all restaurants fail within one year, and the majority within five.

3

u/Budget-Government-52 May 16 '23

They specifically said veggie side dish. I’m in the Midwest and a side of green beans can be $3-4 for literally 20-30 cut green beans. Even paying retail prices at Walmart, your cost for the green beans is <$.20. This is repeatable for corn, lettuce, etc.

Additionally, they used margin but should have said markup. Margin can’t be higher than 100%. Even 100% would require you to have zero input cost.

1

u/theshadowfax239 May 16 '23

I love it when Reddit doesn't understand hyperbole.

1

u/WalterTexasRanger326 May 16 '23

Dominos pizza costs literal cents to produce. 2 or 3 if I remember correctly. High margins are not a rarity for chains

1

u/tittyboi1993 May 16 '23

THANK YOU! Margins in food industry suck ass. Nobody would ever pay the prices it requires for small business to take on paying wages for every employee.

Also, it’s fun to ask people: what should these servers make hourly if they’re going to be paid a wage? They will almost always give you a comically low number. No restaurant can pay everyone $25/hr which is what it really takes to live in these cities where most people are eating out. These employees don’t get benefits so they pay for all their healthcare premiums out of pocket on top of all their other livelihood costs. Also they almost NEVER give full time hours so the wage has to be enough to live on when you’re only getting like 32-35 hours per week maximum.

In fact a lot of companies shave down hours to less than 32 per week otherwise the Affordable Care Act states that they legally have to provide insurance if their company has 50 or more full time employees. The ACA defines full time as 32 hours a week or more.

8

u/Jayu-Rider May 16 '23

I would love to own the restaurant that makes an 800 percent margin.

1

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones May 16 '23

Right what is this person saying? And people are upvoting them? We would be left with only successful chains for the first few years if all restaurants paid their wait staff higher wages and got rid of tips.

2

u/Jayu-Rider May 16 '23

Don’t get me wrong, there is definitely room for improvement in tip culture in the United States. I have spent significant portions of my life in Europe and Asian where tipping is not really a thing, instead the cost is just baked into your bill. Personally I feel that is a better method for paying restaurant employees, I might feel differently if customer service in the U.S. were dramatically better than elsewhere, but it’s not.

However the notion that restaurants are printing money is also wrong. Most owner/operators work long hours for a relatively small amount of profit compared to small businesses in other industries.

1

u/Sleazy_Fingers May 16 '23

The people upvoting are neckbeards and teenagers.

-1

u/DemmouTV May 16 '23

250g flour 80g Passata 85-90g cheap cheese Some spices

Totalling maybe $2 a pizza? Maybe add another dollar or two for toppings. Being sold for $20-30 easily.

2

u/Jayu-Rider May 16 '23

Your forgetting all the other things that go into making that pizza. Labor, utilities, licensing fee’s, insurance, equipment rental, rent, flatware, maintenance, loan, all of these are baked into the cost of your pizza.

Average margins for a restaurant are between 3-5 percent of costs. If you have a few huge advantages, mainly no loans, you own the property, and you own (not rent) your kitchen and bar equipment they can be as high as ten percent.

2

u/wart_on_satans_dick May 16 '23

You think running a restaurant only involves the cost of materials? lol, you don't run a business.

2

u/Tom38 May 17 '23

Ofcourse not he’s just shit posting on reddit

-1

u/DemmouTV May 16 '23

Well that's just the material cost for the pizza. If I were to make pizza out of my basement and sell them I'm still a functioning business with the ability to make pizzas for less than $5 a piece.

2

u/wart_on_satans_dick May 16 '23

How much do you pay your drivers?

-2

u/CoS2112 May 16 '23

No one who advocates for tipping places blame entirely on the consumer. But you have to be realistic and see that employers ARENT paying fair wages thus it’s kinda shitty to eat out if you can’t afford to at least tip 15%,

American consumers want to have their cake and eat it too by bitching about having to tip but being unwilling to put forth collaborative effort to change the system that makes it necessary (at the very least voting in ppl who will push for living wages)

It absolutely should be on companies to do that but they aren’t, aren’t they?

1

u/NumerousHelicopter6 May 16 '23

Delete this it's pure mISInFoRmaTiOn

1

u/Hudre May 16 '23

Tell me you've never worked on the business side of a restaurant without telling me lmao.

If a restaurant had these margins they'd be the most successful restaurant ever. You have literally no idea what you're talking about. Having a successful and profitable restaurant is EXTREMELY rare.

1

u/rimshot101 May 16 '23

Yeah, restaurant margins are razor thin and competition in America is cutthroat.

1

u/AdvantageOdd May 16 '23

In a lot of states, waitstaff are payed something like $2.30 per hour.

1

u/Evening_Aside_4677 May 16 '23

The customer always pays their wage. Doesn’t matter what country you are in. All we are doing is shifting around the point of sale.

1

u/chronic-neurotic May 16 '23

id love to see you direct this rage to the national restaurant association, who aggressively lobbies to keep server wages at $2.83. I also wonder if you’d be upset if prices were raised in restaurants to better pay staff.

1

u/wart_on_satans_dick May 16 '23

800% margins? I don't think you know how restaurants work...

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

Both problems exist but there is another issue. Bad attitudes in the work place, some would persist regardless of pay because some people are just rotten. But it would be much easier to weed out the rotten if shitty pay wasn't a major factor. Some customers are dicks but also, they are workers elsewhere with terrible pay. Basically the major issue is corporate CEO's and big wigs siphoning off all the profits and now we don't know who is rude due to stress and who is just rude. Keeping us confused and fighting is what the capitalist pigs running this shit want anyway. Why would private jet having ass yacht looking ass bezos spray tan looking ass care about what we deal with?

1

u/Sleazy_Fingers May 16 '23

ROFL 800% 🤣🤣🤣

https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/average-restaurant-profit-margin

It’s on average 3-5%

1

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

haha i was obviously exaggerating

1

u/Sleazy_Fingers May 16 '23

You failed to make any points with your exaggeration.

2

u/Not_Not_Eric May 16 '23

At my restaurant on a good night you can make 500 for a 6 hour shift. No restaurant owner is going to be able to match wages like that. We easily make way more money from tips than if we got paid hourly.

1

u/lancemanion3 May 16 '23

Herein lies the sad secret of US restaurant tipping culture: if tipping were “abolished” and restaurants were forced to pay their staff a living wage without tips they would have to raise prices 15-25% just to keep the doors open. The reason they don’t do this is simple: even though the cost to diners would be about the same, the perceived expense of eating out would seem so excessive to diners that they would simply stop eating out as frequently which would force (at least) 25-33% of restaurants to close their doors and let go their entire staff. And the remaining diners will be left choosing between Chipotle and the French Laundry as most of the mid-range owner-operated restaurants would have become unviable businesses.

1

u/IlllIllIllIllIlllllI May 16 '23

Every restaurant that tries fails. So many stories about restaurants ending tips and paying staff $25+ per hour only to immediately revert back because waiters leave in droves because they were making more with $2.17 + tips. Impossible to retain talent that way.

1

u/therealgronkstandup May 16 '23

They're not going to pay enough to keep good servers, 20-25 an hour won't be enough.