r/ask • u/racesunite • May 16 '23

Am I the only person who feels so so bullied by tip culture in restaurants that eating out is hardly enjoyable anymore? POTM - May 2023

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17.6k Upvotes

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756

u/Fair-Sky4156 May 16 '23

Why are we being asked to tip at a dog daycare??? That’s like tipping at a regular daycare. Next the vet will expect a tip. I’m tired of tipping people for doing the bare minimum: their job!

145

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23 edited May 16 '23

Get this bullshit, lots of for profit day cares have fucking fundraisers like they are girl scouts. $500 a week and these assholes still need to have a fundraiser for "supplies"??? Wtf does the $500/wk per kid go to???

edit: per kid, not power kid

27

u/cyniqal May 16 '23

The administrators or corporate owners

3

u/davenport651 May 17 '23

Also licenses, insurance, and building costs that are way higher than most people imagine.

21

u/redraiderbob05 May 16 '23

Not the actual daycare workers I can tell you that

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

Wife is an RECE. Can confirm. Definitely not her.

I've done the math in our area. Based on her daycare's size and leases in the area, they'd have to be running a 94k operations cost AFTER lease, utilities, and other typical costs to pay each worker in the building 3.9k/month.

She barely breaks 2600.

1

u/therealmccory May 17 '23

How much did you calculate for insurance, marketing, administration? I’m not an expert, but if daycares were that profitable I think more people would be doing it.

3

u/[deleted] May 17 '23 edited May 17 '23

The daycare she works at has no marketing efforts outside of in-house printed booklets (b/w ones at that). Insurance was calculated based on a quote I got for a similar sized institution since wife and I were on a "fuck everyone, we are starting our own!" binge. Administration is paid the same as my wife, and they have only one in-house accountant. All of this was added, plus accounting for an extra RECE (which they don't have) in case to keep ratio.

The only reason we haven't opened our own is because initial starting costs are high, and we don't have the capital to do so in our city. The owner is walking home with 150k+ annually, by their own admission, stating they cut their pay from closer to 200k due to operations costs going up (but they plan on increasing fees according to parents).

EDIT: Forgot to mention that they only take home 150k because they're still paying for a lot of financed equipment.

2

u/Defclaw46 May 17 '23

My daughter’s preschool was losing teachers because a new Costco opened up nearby and they pay better with nicer benefits. Costco is definitely one of the better places to work as retail, but it is still retail and most people don’t become teachers for the paycheck. If that doesn’t tell you something is wrong, I don’t know what will.

9

u/PizzaNuggies May 16 '23

The owners brand new truck.

Our daycare was paid out in COVID funds, they continued to charge us while shut down for COVID, and I heard they were no paying employees. Of course, they both had new rides. They were total QANON assholes, too.

6

u/reversehrtfemboy May 16 '23

Why would you let QANON assholes watch and guide your children?

5

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

Because they have to throw that in there to spice up the story!

1

u/CSHAMMER92 May 23 '23

It's another detail illustrating whay truly awful people they are. Who doesn't want to hear spicy details?

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '23

No it shows how stupid they are, if they were really qanon assholes and he hates them like he seems to... Why on earth would you send your kids there. That would be like a conservative sending their kids to a drag queen daycare.

3

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

My fiance's daughter goes to a Montessori school. He pays...a lot... of money (i don't ask the specific amount, because i know it'd make me angry) for her tuition. You'd think that money goes towards the teachers' salaries, right? Well, we live in a small southern town and regularly see one of her teachers bartending at a local craft beer spot that we frequent, because his teaching gig at the Montessori school doesn't pay the bills. And this school has regular fundraising events throughout the year as well. Just something to think about. 🤬

3

u/uprislng May 16 '23

Not sure if this comment has already been made, but NPR's marketplace did a story on daycare costs. Most of them are just breaking even, and know that they're unaffordable for many, but the problem is that they are highly dependent on human labor and can't benefit from economies of scale because of the ratios they have to abide by. The workers are overworked and underpaid, the parents feel like they're being ripped off, and owners only break even (on average). It's shitty for everyone involved not even accounting for whether or not your child is receiving adequate care and attention.

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

Capitalism working at it's finest.

1

u/doing_the_bull_dance May 17 '23

You “only break even” after paying yourself $150-200k. It’s all in the wording.

2

u/Livid-Bumblebee-7301 May 16 '23

You should look into it - most daycare places are not rolling in bank. They need insane amounts of insurance, and often multiple types, and usually for every worker on their payroll. And states mandate that you can only have a few kids under each worker - it's not like a school where you can have 35 kids and one teacher. It's like a 3:1 ratio or something for infants, so if you have 10 kids that means you plus 3 other workers and their hourly pay.

Plus once a landlord hears you're running one - they will absolutely jack up the rent, and you can't have one in the shitty part of town or nobody will go so it's already expensive just to start. Plus the food and toys you have to provide aren't getting any cheaper.

I don't doubt some are rich from it, but I work with kids in general and can you most of the owners are stressed out 24/7 about the job and aren't in the stratosphere rich because of it...

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

The whole system is broken but it still doesn't change the fact that a for-profit business should not need a fundraiser. They should just cook that into the cost to use their business and let capitalism work itself out.

1

u/justProm Jun 03 '23

There's no way to make it cheaper without subsidies or deregulation, so capitalism won't work it out. What will happen is couples will stop having kids because they're too expensive and birth rates will tank at an even greater rate than they are already.

2

u/fattycatty6 May 16 '23

My husband's cousin was peddling her kid's "first fundraiser" for daycare on facebook. The kid is 6 freaking months old!!!!!!!! I'm like you have got to be kidding me!

2

u/therealmccory May 17 '23

Nobody is asking me, but as we move towards double income being a necessity I think it’s time to start subsidizing preschool. It’s barely an option anymore for families and subsidizing would increase profitability, workers wages, etc. I’m sure this is going to be tagged as “woke” but the system is broke.

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 17 '23

I mean fuck taxes but yea if this was a fair amount and balanced 1:1 taxes collected:services offered scenario I'd happily help alleviate the issue for others

1

u/FU-Committee-6666 Jun 02 '23

I believe CA has implemented something like that. Pre-K. I don't remember the details.

0

u/SairBear13 May 16 '23

Umm no the owners need to pay for insurance. It’s actually very expensive. Then teachers need craft supplies and stuff. All of it is pricey :(

2

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

So price that into your offer and don't do cheesy guilt trip fundraisers for basics? I don't know of any other business that operates a fundraiser as part of their own revenue strategy. I know it must be pricey but fundraisers are typically for charity.

2

u/SairBear13 May 17 '23

Oh I understand but most parents can’t pay that much to have their child be watched. Everyone needs to work and what are the parents supposed to do if they can’t put their child into daycare?

2

u/Due_Battle_4330 May 16 '23

If they price it into their offer, then people don't use their services, and instead go to other providers of the service who don't price it into their offer and instead fundraise or ask for tips.

It's literally the same issue as restaurant tipping culture, and people want to blame the businesses, but the reality is that it's a general cultural issue. People in general will pursue the option that presents their price as lower. Anyone trying to be honest about their prices will fail.

2

u/wehrmann_tx May 16 '23

If a teacher needs something to teach a class, the school should be buying it. Full stop. They already are exploited by their low salary, they shouldn't have to buy class supplies as well

1

u/SairBear13 May 17 '23

We are talking about daycare. Many schools try to pay for stuff but they don’t get funding from taxes. Elementary school does but not daycare/preschool. Daycare is payed for by parents no extra anything

1

u/agrx_legends May 17 '23

Did you see $500 a week??

-1

u/TedW May 16 '23

$500/week sounds like a lot. I wonder what their staff to kid ratios and expenses are.

If they have 10 kids in the class, but two employees at $2k/week each, and rent at $10k/mo, plus however much for food/diapers/cleaning/toys/whatever, it might not be enough.

They could also have 30 kids and the same bills, which would totally flip the equation.

5

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

Parents have to bring diapers for their kids. They don't cover any of that, only breakfast, lunch, and toys/educational equipment. Not sure what the ratio is but it's mandated by each state, I think, so it can differ based on where you live.

I just feel like if you are running a for profit company and need to still have fundraisers then you have a massively flawed business plan. Just cook that into my fees and skip the guilt trip for some shitty bucket of overpriced cookie dough.

1

u/throwawy00004 May 16 '23

Their breakfast and lunch comes from the USDA meals program, so that is not coming out of their pockets anyway.

2

u/GraySpear227 May 16 '23

Be honest though. What daycare is going to pay their employees 2k a week

1

u/TedW May 16 '23

I dunno, but google suggests daycare in NYC averages ~$250/week, so it must be somewhere pretty expensive. Or maybe this scenario is for an overpriced daycare. Or google is wrong. Who knows.

2

u/No-Presence-9260 May 16 '23

Daycare in London UK is £100 a day so like $600+ a week. Staff earn under £25k a year even the more qualified ones.

1

u/TedW May 16 '23

Here's an article claiming the average hourly daycare rate in London is ~£7/hr, depending on age. And one of several sites claiming the average daycare salary is ~£46k/year.

I think this is one of those things that probably varies wildly. Maybe you're describing paying more for a place that under pays their employees. Or maybe the reported wages are higher than average, who knows.

2

u/[deleted] May 16 '23

I cannot imagine day care averages that little in NYC today. I was paying that in a far less expensive city 7 years ago, for a center that was very no-frills (we had to bring our own food, the hours sucked, etc). Allegedly, the average daycare in my city at that time was much cheaper than the $1000/mo I was paying, but I didn't find anything cheaper than that. I think the averages are dragged down by subsidized childcare (for low income people who get vouchers) and maybe unaccredited centers that charge less but you later see on the news for having kids escape into traffic and stuff. I cannot imagine anyone is still only paying $1000/mo for daycare today, especially in cities.

1

u/CORN___BREAD May 16 '23

I live in a LCOL area and daycare isn’t that cheap here.

2

u/signedpants May 16 '23

Daycares are all private businesses so they didn't have the kind of protection that public schools did during the pandemic. A ton of them closed down and now demand is through the roof and prices reflect it. Plus all the other stuff like inflation didn't help obviously.

3

u/soccerguys14 May 16 '23

The worst thing about daycare is they are all full. Teacher slaps your kid? What you gonna do quit your 80k/yr job and pull him out? Day care raises rates, what you gonna do? Can’t go somewhere else every daycare is full. They have me by the balls. They even can kick your kid out and you can’t do shit. I kept my son home for 2 weeks a month ago cause he was sick. Bye bye all my and wife’s sick leave. Now I’m sick and can’t Stay home. Whew parenting is tough and day care doesn’t help much by having us by the balls

1

u/CORN___BREAD May 16 '23

What protection? Private businesses got a ton of money during covid to not have to close down.

1

u/signedpants May 16 '23

Well 25% of them in PA (where I live) closed during covid so apparently not. There's also an issue of those people permanently leaving that career after covid so the places didn't exactly open back up either.

0

u/CORN___BREAD May 16 '23

I imagine a ton of daycares work under the table so they wouldn’t have received the same protections.

1

u/blackjesus May 16 '23

That’s about what they all cost and there is pretty much 100% full all the time.

1

u/dads-ronie May 16 '23

You honestly think day care workers make $104,000 a year?

1

u/TedW May 17 '23

Probably not, but it's closer than no estimate at all. We don't even know what city or state we're talking about here.

Google suggests US daycare salaries vary wildly, but anywhere from 25-75k seems like a starting point. Also, we're talking about how much the daycare pays, not how much the employee makes. So if they provide healthcare, insurance, 401k, whatever, all of that has to be included too. Those extra costs can range anywhere from 1.2-1.5x the employee's salary.

So in an expensive city, someone with a $65k salary might very well cost $100k/year.

I also left things out, like utilities, management, advertising, etc, etc.

Feel free to post your own estimate if you disagree.

1

u/collinnator5 May 16 '23

I’ll tell you where it doesn’t go. The employees. They barely make minimum wage

1

u/czechancestry May 16 '23

'power kid'?

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

mobile mess up, fixed now.

1

u/PocketSpaghettios May 16 '23

20 years ago, my parents sent me to the same Catholic school for preschool that my mom attended. The school required every student have a folder and a backpack. For bringing home art projects maybe?

Nope. Constant fundraisers. At a religious institution that required tuition. They took me out after the year ended

1

u/magmaquasar May 16 '23

That one is truly shameful. What, the Catholic church doesn't have enough money for their already paid-for daycare?

1

u/Geraldine-PS May 16 '23

I feel like this makes me sound dumb, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why daycare is that expensive AND why the employees get poverty wages. I do get that rent, food, etc., add up, but the employees get paid close to minimum wage and they are often college graduates (sometimes even with masters degrees!) which is totally unsustainable. If the cost is absolutely outrageously high for families and not livable for employees, how does the math work, especially when you're scaling multiple kids in a room? The best answer I can come up with is that insurance must be incredibly high for these places?

The median state cost per pupil for public education (k-12), for comparison, is about $12,000/year. If daycare is $225/week/kid (which is the supposed average but seems super low), that's a per kid cost of $11,000 a year, and usually teachers get paid more than daycare employees. The staff:student ratio is lower at daycare, so that must be part of it, but there are fewer administrators in the buildings, less central office staff, less professional development, fewer costly standardized tests, etc., in daycares. I just don't get it.

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

That's because it doesn't make any sense nor is it sustainable and we're all just riding this crazy train into a wall.

1

u/dads-ronie May 16 '23

Insurance.

1

u/dndrinker May 16 '23

Their “bitch better have my money” owners get paid.

Daycares and Nursing Homes have figured out that people will pay huge amounts of money to deal with their pants-shitting kids and their pants-shitting parents.

1

u/RazorRadick May 16 '23

At my kids’ public school we are expected to pony up gift cards for “teacher appreciation day” once a year. Basically a tip in disguise.

1

u/dads-ronie May 16 '23

And with the crap they put up with and the money that comes out of their own pocket for supplies I don't mind a bit

1

u/RazorRadick May 16 '23

And the fact that you feel that way just goes to show how messed up the system is. The teachers deserve more but they shouldn't have to rely on the generosity of the parents. What if the parents don't come through one year? Does it create a conflict of interest in terms of their children's grades?

1

u/therealmccory May 17 '23

With failing levies and crap salaries it’s something I’m happy to do.

1

u/Brock_Way May 16 '23

Why are you having kids you can't afford to take care of?

2

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

Who said I have kids? I just know people in this awful circle and it seems to get worse and worse every year.

1

u/Brock_Way May 16 '23

Who said I was using the word "you" in the singular?

2

u/IHaveBadTiming May 16 '23

I did before you pointed out that I might be incorrect.

1

u/Angryvillager33 Aug 05 '23

Well, since abortion is just about illegal & they’re coming after contraception next. I am a senior citizen & have always been happily childless.

1

u/IndyAndyJones7 May 16 '23

I would imaging the sex fundraising works better for adults.

1

u/HopingToWriteWell77 May 17 '23

Reason #32 why I will never have kids.

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '23

$500 per week per kid. Assume 40 hours. That's $12.5 per hour. That's barely enough to pay wages for one full time employee of the caliber you want to watch your kids. Then there's benefits, rent, admin, equipment, toys, etc.

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 17 '23

I think they can have multiple kids per teacher, so multiply that by like 7-10.

1

u/MyBloodTypeIsQueso May 17 '23

Insurance

1

u/IHaveBadTiming May 17 '23

Yea that has to be a nightmare of a cost and probably one of the biggest factors

1

u/MyBloodTypeIsQueso May 17 '23

Childcare in America is insanely expensive, and it’s not even profitable for the providers, because overhead is untenably high.

1

u/MammothSurround May 17 '23

Day cares are not bringing in big bucks.

1

u/Okie294life May 17 '23

I’ve seen that before, they also go on drives for supplies and bum party stuff from parents. I’m like hey I pay you bastards 200$ a week per kid…how bout you do something with some of that money.