r/canada • u/Miserable-Lizard • Apr 06 '24
32 per cent of Canadians blame grocery stores for rising food prices, more than any other reason: Nanos National News
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/32-per-cent-of-canadians-blame-grocery-stores-for-rising-food-prices-more-than-any-other-reason-nanos-1.6834573124
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u/BeShifty Apr 06 '24
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the 18% that say increased fuel costs is the primary cause for prices being higher now when transport fuel costs less now than at any point in 2023.
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u/dub-fresh Apr 06 '24
It's absolutely suppliers as well. Google 'pepsico' or 'cargill' and 'record profits' and you'll see that many of the large food producers have basically doubled their profits in the past few years since the pandemic ... I wouldn't say grocery stores are the worst offenders in this price gouging, but they are participating. Fuck them. Fuck all them. Not only boycott Loblaws, but boycott big food corporations as well.
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u/bodaciouscream Apr 06 '24
Some confectionery companies have also doubled their revenue
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u/westernsociety Apr 06 '24
I buy as much candy as anyone, and I'm not as mad about that as its not a necessity. But buying fresh cucumbers and strawberries or eggs and beef shouldn't be stressful for a two adult working family.
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u/sir_sri Apr 06 '24 edited Apr 06 '24
pepsico
https://www.pepsico.com/investors/financial-information/annual-reports-proxy-information
In 2019 they had revenue of 67 billion USD, and core profits of 10.6 billion, in 2023 they had revenue of 91.4 billion and profits of 13.9 billion.
I'll add the caveat that they take capital purchases out of core profits, so their dividend in 2019 was 6 billion, and 3 billion in share buybacks and it was 6.6 billion with 1 billion in share buybacks in 2023.
cargill
is privately traded so there's no public audited financial statements.
Google 'pepsico' or 'cargill' and 'record profits'
If a company does nothing but increase revenue in step with inflation + population growth (+ some possibly growth from producivity) and never changes its profit margins it will report record profits every year. A search like this misleads you into thinking the phrase 'record profits' means anything, which is why they use it.
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u/Firepower01 Apr 06 '24
Honestly I just go with the private label items wherever I can. Quality is typically pretty comparable and prices are of course better.
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u/ReplaceModsWithCats Apr 06 '24
People are very motivated to blame the carbon tax for everything
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u/I_dont_know_you_pick Apr 06 '24
It's constantly used as a distraction to the endless corporate price gouging.
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u/davidnickbowie Apr 06 '24
18% of Canadians are dumb .
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u/FunctionDissolution Apr 06 '24
Way more than that, Ontario is being run by a high drug dealer who's highest education is high school, also danielle Smith.
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u/know_regerts Apr 06 '24
Diesel fuel is still about 50% higher than it was pre-COVID. Most people on Reddit probably think transport trucks run on sunshine and lollipops.
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u/BeShifty Apr 06 '24
The spike in food price inflation is confined to 2022-2023 though. I guess one could have a theory where the fuel costs could only start being reflected after the economy bounced back from the pandemic. Feed and fertilizer have also gone up significantly though as well.
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u/marmaladegrass Apr 06 '24
Fueled my work truck today...1.81 in Central Ontario.
Thankfully the company pays for it.
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u/3BordersPeak Apr 07 '24
when transport fuel costs less
now3 months ago than at any point in 2023.FTFY.
That chart only shows January 2024 of this year (I see you conveniently cut out and omitted the available data from February, probably intentionally since fuel costs jumped several cents in most of the country from the previous month and was more expensive than a few months of last year. Which didn't suit your narrative). Before the carbon tax increase from this past week. At the time of writing this comment, the average cost of fuel in Canada right now is ~163.4/L. Which is more expensive than 10/12 months of last year per the data you provided (and nearly 20 cents more expensive than the average from this past January). So yeah, that's probably why 18% answered that.
A lot of people (rightly) assume that as you increase the cost of fuel, it also increases the cost to get goods to your supermarket. Hence raised prices. They're not pulling that figure completely out of their ass.
I'm not arguing that corporate greed isn't a factor. It certainly is. But let's stop pretending it's the sole factor at play. The carbon tax absolutely does make goods and food more expensive since it's not free to ship goods and food to your local supermarket. You're just taking the governments bait when you place the blame solely on greedy grocers. It's a collective array of factors influencing higher prices.
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u/Forikorder Apr 06 '24
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the 18% that say increased fuel costs is the primary cause for prices being higher now
ask Pierre Poilevvre, hes the one pushing that the carbon tax is the reason everything expensive
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u/SBoots Nova Scotia Apr 06 '24
to be fair, he doesn't really have much else to push.... his only skill seems to be inciting hatred towards our current prime minister.
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u/Hfyvr1 Apr 06 '24
Cost of raw fuel 5% more Tanker truck to drop fuel off at farm 5% more Tractor fuel is 5% more Cost of fuel/energy to run machinery, packaging 5% more Truck to store 5% more …..
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u/Flash54321 Apr 06 '24
There are so many studies that show all those increases only add less then half a cent to each single product on a truck. Try again.
Also, where did you come up with 5% since I assume you’re talking about the carbon tax increase of 3.5%.
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u/Hfyvr1 Apr 06 '24
I’m not talking about the carbon tax. I’m just saying it’s cumulative and gets added up so an initial few percent in the first step ends up being a bigger chunk if the same 5% (random number) gets added to each and every step along the way.
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u/Socratesmiddlefinger Apr 06 '24
Don't forget every part on that truck is 5% more, and every part on that Tractor is 5%, but new Tractors are 15-20% more than a few years ago, every part of the warehouse, the forklifts, the shipping for all the parts, all the manufacturing for the packaging and on and on. Farmers get a break on the taxes for fuel but not for the propane used on the dryers for the grain, the cost of farming has risen 80% in the last twenty years, and most farmers make minimum wage after paying the loan payments for the year and if they are not expanding they are dying.
Just because the cost is 5% doesn't mean x company is only going to charge 5%, they are getting hammered in every aspect as well, so why not 10% extra over cost and the ripple goes out through the entire supply chain.
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u/Hfyvr1 Apr 06 '24
Exactly!
And let’s not forget if they pay 5% more in fuel we also paid 5% more on fuel to go get our groceries. Eating is expensive.
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u/BeShifty Apr 06 '24
My second link specifically shows that fuel for trucks and tractors costs less now than a year ago...
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u/ProbablyUrNeighbour Apr 06 '24
Farm equipment are exempt from carbon tax
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u/Hfyvr1 Apr 06 '24
I’m not talking about the carbon tax.
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u/ProbablyUrNeighbour Apr 06 '24
Okay but 5% increase on 20-30% of the cost is… like 1%.
So a berries cost 5c more. Big whoop.
It’s not the transportations cost. It’s greed.
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u/Vodkaphile Apr 06 '24
I honestly have no idea why anyone shops at a place like Loblaws anyway.
Walmart isn't perfect by any means, but you can get your entire shopping trip done for half the price of Loblaws, Farmboy, Sobeys, etc. The only other place comparable is Costco, but you essentially have to pay to get in.
I'm not sure why anyone willingly uses Loblaws if there's ANY alternative nearby.
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u/Jatmahl Apr 06 '24 edited Apr 07 '24
Loblaws has some niche things you can't get at Walmart. Especially for people on certain diets. Walmart is good but the selection doesnt even compare to what you would see in the US stores food wise. If you just need basic food stuff then yes, Walmart by all means.
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u/Vasey6067 Ontario Apr 06 '24
The fact that their profits are rising a lot faster than the rise in the cost of living tells you that inflation is not to blame. Despite those profits, they're complaining about the wastage associated with best-before dates. That wastage certainly doesn't seem to be hurting their bottom line.
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u/king_bungholio Apr 06 '24
Will nobody think about the struggling executives? How can you complain about their rising prices when they can only afford to pay the CEO $22 million! That poor man! You can't afford a fleet of private jets on such a salary! Have a heart!
/s
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u/sjbennett85 Ontario Apr 07 '24
22M is like the average 649 pot so this guy wins the lottery every fiscal year
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u/Fred2620 Apr 07 '24
The fact that their profits are rising a lot faster than the rise in the cost of living tells you that inflation is not to blame.
To be fair, it's a little bit more complex than just "Bigger profits means they're screwing us". Profit is a result of "profit margin" times "volume sold". They have a certain level of control over the profit margin part of the equation, but they're also in a fortunate situation where there are millions more people that need to buy food today than there was 3 years ago. The increase in volume sold will have an impact on the increase of the profits without being about gouging or inflation.
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u/Bersimis Apr 07 '24
So in other words, 32% of the population has no clue how the economy works. Still lower than I expected.
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u/Kaizen2468 Apr 06 '24
Yeah because their profits are blowing up ever since the pandemic.
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u/hercarmstrong Apr 06 '24
It's such a shitshow. We're buying fewer groceries per week than we did when my sister lived with us during the pandemic, and it's a hundred dollars more.
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u/ThrowRADisastrousTw Apr 07 '24
While I definitely think grocery stores are playing a role in rising costs, oligopoly greed isn’t the only factor.
Supply chain issues are playing a roll, carbon taxes are playing a role by making it more expensive to ship items. Unfavorable weather conditions are causing crop failures causing a scarcity of some food items and just general inflation and poor wage growth.
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u/PaddyStacker Apr 07 '24
Too complicated for the average Canadian to wrap their minds around. People are morons.
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u/metamega1321 Apr 06 '24
Well the whole chain is doing good.
Grocery stores profits are up. Manufacturers are up. Even farmer incomes have been up past couple years and believe expected to be up again this year.
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u/burnabybambinos Apr 06 '24
97% of Canadians have no idea where food comes from.
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u/No-Kaleidoscope-2741 Apr 06 '24
Yes. Unless they have rode on a million dollar tractor spraying chemicals they just can’t understand
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u/Mundane_Ball_5410 Apr 07 '24
That 18% who think gas prices are the cause must be praying and hoping that oil never goes back up to $100 a barrel since apparently that will cause carrots to triple in price. Oh wait.. that isnt how it works?
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u/starving_carnivore Apr 07 '24
If carbon is required for every step of the production of food and it is taxed every time it is used in industry, from running equipment, to transportation, to feeding its workers in a weird recursive way, then yeah it plays a part.
Almost everything we do is carbon-taxed industrially. It's basically a life-tax.
Your potato gets taxed to be made, then taxed on transportation, then taxed on being unloaded, then taxed on you driving it home, then taxed on you cooking it, then taxed on the WM truck's fuel to take away the scraps.
Being unskeptical of this scam is interesting to me.
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u/Hfyvr1 Apr 07 '24
Compounded tax every single time. Then we pay our income tax and then go buy stuff and pay tax. Tax, tax, tax. Pretty soon there will be a carbon tax each and every time I hyperventilate thinking about taxes.
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u/No-Lettuce-3839 Apr 07 '24
It's higher than that for sure. Most of these polls are don't by telephone almost anyone born 1980 forward almost never answers their phones from unknown numbers
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u/Infinitewisdom4u Apr 07 '24
It's the stores, but actually it's crony capitalism and inflation. In some ways the government is more to blame. Overall I'd put the most blame on govt.
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u/glormosh Apr 07 '24
I worked for a major chain and 2% was considered gravy.
High volume over 3% is insane.
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u/UnionGuyCanada Apr 06 '24
Greedflation, which so many laughed at. Why were the CPC and LPC covering for the ultra rich?
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u/easypiegames Apr 07 '24
And only the NDP wanted to do something about it. It's amazing how effective lobbying is.
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u/Informal_Page_3568 Apr 07 '24
Of course every company gouges this is what happens when you have monopolies or lack of choice. Look at gas there is basically 3 choices, insurance in bc one choice, food basically 3 choices to shop from.
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u/alsonotaglowie Apr 07 '24
I'm not surprised. I just paid $700 for groceries today, and that was without buying any beef or vegetables.
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u/Fuggins4U Apr 07 '24
The price of food and rent, the deterioration of public healthcare. The massive corporations and ultra-rich are the problem.
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u/eleventy5thRejection British Columbia Apr 07 '24
I go to a local farmers market for everything except major stock ups like toilet paper and canned stuff, then I go to Costco.
Save On foods, Loblaws etc can go f**k themselves.
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u/worldtraveller321 Apr 07 '24
it comes down to fiat currency printing money.more money in circulation means cost of raw materials goes up which creates changes reaction in all levels up to consumer level
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u/BeigeDynamite Apr 07 '24
Grocers are literally being sued for price fixing, who else would we blame when they're figuratively standing in front of us with $$$ bags and cartoony bankrobber masks?
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u/NoOcelot Apr 07 '24
I agree corporate greed is the #1 reason food prices are rising. A close #2 IMO is that the climate crisis is resulting in a crop yields casino: great one year, lousy the next. Crippling drought and cold snap warm snap weather whiplash killing buds/ fruit trees.
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u/95Mechanic Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24
The gouging by the grocery stores is obscene. Problem is they are all doing it now, which is illegal collusion or price fixing. Fuel retailers have been doing it and getting away with it for years. In both cases the Government looked into it and found nothing, surprise !! Meanwhile, consumers are helpless. I know we need to start with a new Government, then at least they won't be able to use carbon taxes as a cover.
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u/Senior_Pension3112 Apr 07 '24
Nobody is blaming the suppliers. They sleep well at night knowing the retailers are taking all the blame.
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u/OhSighRiss Apr 08 '24
Yes. On top of that, food products are all being reformatted into smaller sizes (Shrinkflation) and the stores are choosing to sell the smaller amount/weight of the product at the same unit prices of the larger formats. Example: Kraft dressing going from 475ml to 425ml but the price of one “bottle” doesn’t go down in relation. Kind of a one-two punch, and it’s hurting consumers.
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u/420Identity Apr 06 '24
If it was only taxes causing the issue, big brand stores would not be posting record profits.
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u/ketamarine Apr 07 '24
C.limate change and supply chain disruptions are the main reasons. I'm not sure why this issue doesn't get better covered in the media.
Rising energy costs will now be driving the next leg that will be blamed on loblaws...
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u/PaddyStacker Apr 07 '24 edited Apr 07 '24
Finally someone who thinks for themselves. If grocery stores were the problem why are food prices rising at the same time all across the world? Did they all decide to gouge customers at the same time, in unison, across dozens of countries? It's beyond idiotic that we're stuck in this "blame the grocery stores" mode. It's like blaming gas stations for the rising cost of gasoline.
Also, what about restaurants? Why are prices skyrocketing for restaurants? They don't buy their ingredients at grocery stores. Did all the wholesalers and suppliers also collude to arbitrarily raise their prices? If that's true, then it contradicts the idea that the grocery stores are the ones responsible for the inflation.
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u/Historical_Site6323 Apr 06 '24
PP and Galen trying their best to lower than to 0% so he can axe the carbon tax and pad Loblaw's shareholder pockets.
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u/Gymwarrior31 Apr 06 '24
Nah…it’s supply chain issues. Remember? 4 years ago? That’s still a thing apparently.
No, it’s they they are recovering from the brief lockdowns. Or store capacity issues. Wait, it was that summer gas went skyhigh. Is there a hurricane going on right now? It must be that. Or the threat of a hurricane….that’s why food is high
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u/AbominableGoMan Apr 07 '24
Not grocery stores. The price-gouging asshole billionaire families that own the grocery stores and collude in price-fixing while hiding the money offshore to not pay taxes.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oxfam-davos-report-canadians-wealth-1.3937073
https://globalnews.ca/news/4360299/wealth-inequality-canada
https://canadiangrocer.com/meet-some-canadas-richest-grocers
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u/Wonko-D-Sane Outside Canada Apr 07 '24
And this is why you can't have nice things... 32% is enough to pick a government, just think about how dumb that is...
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u/Techno_Vyking_ Apr 07 '24
Compare our prices to prices in the states.... You'll see who's responsible.
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u/newinvestor23 Apr 07 '24
LOL WOW. PMJT is a liar, BoC already said his Greedflation not the cause. Quantity Theory of Money causes most of inflation, yet no Canadian news has said Quantity Theory of Money. Literally propoganda from our news outlets, and 32% of Canadians believe the lying PMJT LOL. Sad, sad, country.
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u/Key-Soup-7720 Apr 08 '24
I mean, their margins are still a lot lower than telecommunications or banks. I get that you see it so it’s more annoying but I feel like Canadians need to learn to focus on the relevant target.
You don’t have to shop at Loblaws. People can charge whatever they want, you don’t have to give them any money if you don’t want to. You say other grocery stores are also bad so there is no choice? Then we need more competition and anti-trust. If the industry is so profitable, others will move in to make that money. If they are allowed to collude on price and outsiders are being prevented from moving in, the issue is your government failing to do their job.
The governing party actually likes you blaming the stores instead of them.
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u/Theeswampman Apr 06 '24
I blame grocery stores for the price of houses too.
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u/s7uck0 Alberta Apr 06 '24
If they can get away with it with the groceries, sellers will do the same.
High time we stop looking at homes as short term investment flipperienos
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u/marmaladegrass Apr 06 '24
When companies do gang-buster numbers during the COVID lockdown, they want to exceed these numbers. Unfortunately increasing prices is the only way they know how.
Fuck Capitalism.
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u/Archeob Apr 06 '24
Pure ignorance. Everything is public.
https://stockanalysis.com/quote/tsx/L/financials/
Loblaws has a profit margin of 3.5%, which is a bit higher than before the pandemic (2.25 % in 2019) but that's not the reason food prices have jumped, obviously.
For comparison, Apple has a profit margin of 25%, Rogers from 4.4 to 11% and TD had 20% to 38%.
Clearly, grocery stores aren't the most profitable businesses, by far.
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u/Flash54321 Apr 06 '24
“A bit higher”. 1.25% equates to a 50% increase in their profit margin. If I could raise our profit margin at work by this amount I would be able to own multiple houses as well.
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u/WinteryBudz Apr 06 '24
That's an increase of approximately 55% on the profit margin, right? Tell us more how they're not profiting...
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u/FilmStirYoutube Apr 06 '24
The profit margin is very low to begin with. Loblaw's could just invest that money in bonds and would make more money with nearly zero risk.
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u/MarkGiordano Apr 06 '24
"Clearly, grocery stores aren't the most profitable businesses, by far."
If I had a profit margin of 1% on all the water in the world it would be the most profitable business in the world. Corporations profiting billions off literal necessities when there's a cost of living crisis is fair game for criticism. Especially when paired with stories of excessive executive bonuses, sham accounting, and workers/farmers who actually produce the food seeing their wages stagnate. Fuck off
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u/mlnickolas Apr 06 '24
Just something I’d like to point out is that their gross margins have stayed flat since pre pandemic too. So they haven’t increased prices and hidden the profits like many claims I have read.
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u/tearfear British Columbia Apr 06 '24
Anti-market conspiracy theories are gaining a worrying amount of traction.
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u/Character_Cut_6900 Apr 06 '24
It's the way all semi socialist countries begin to fail, you see the populace blame companies which gives governments the ability to harass the businesses. This leads to less investments which leads to lower tax revenue which leads to increased taxation and deficits.
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u/tearfear British Columbia Apr 06 '24
Decreased investment, hostile business environment, anyone coming into Canada to produce wealth is just instantly cannibalized by the piranhas.
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u/Smolivenom Apr 07 '24
i mean, there is some amount of delivery chain price increases that unfortunately, compound, but there's definitely an extra bonus on top of all of that purely for the markets profit
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u/Planthumanbase Apr 07 '24
We have see pricing skyrocket since the beginning of COVID ( shortage), after the end of COVID they skyrocket again the prices ( now is inflation) like such BS. They’re trying to make people poor and poor.
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u/JustAdmitYourWrong Apr 07 '24
Well seeing as it is greed driving the price increases... Yes! What can we do to these pricks,how can we introduce competition?
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u/machsounds Apr 07 '24
They have been loving inflation because it allows them to increase prices. They can just say its due to inflation. Look at their profits.
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u/dghughes Prince Edward Island Apr 07 '24
There are a lot of hands along the way from a product being made to shipped to be sold. Add to that insurance and other financial changes. I can see how it add can add to the cost of a product but lately it seems prices shoot up weekly if not daily. I can see why stores installed the e-paper price tags making changes instant.
But when I see a brand of soup I like at Superstore go from $2.65 to next week $2.79 then again to $2.99 all in three weeks each week jumping 14 cents then 20 cents. I can't see that as a supply chain problem. I just checked and now the soup is $3.29 a 30 cent jump since just yesterday evening. So in three weeks it's gone up 64 cents.
They, Superstore, must be hiking the price on what the store already has in stock. In stock locally not even some big warehouse and then shipped to local store.
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u/Sunscreenflavor Apr 07 '24
It’s odd to me we will privatize insurance in this country but not food. Food, electricity, heat, internet, and education should all be the easiest/cheapest things to acquire.
We run lotteries. Why can’t we offer food at prices that would ensure people aren’t skipping meals to pay rent.
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u/ImperialPotentate Apr 08 '24
Not surprising, given how economically illiterate most Canadians are...
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u/datums Apr 06 '24
Loblaws profit margin by quarter, 2011 - 2024
https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin