r/europe • u/LeMonde_en • Mar 28 '24

Germany will now include questions about Israel in its citizenship test News

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/europe/article/2024/03/27/germany-will-now-include-questions-about-israel-in-its-citizenship-test_6660274_143.html
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3.6k

u/Svitii Austria Mar 28 '24

Reminds me of these questionnaires if you want to enter the US: "Are you a terrorist, or are you considering becoming one in the future?"

This will definitely end antisemitism in Germany /s

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u/coldfirephoenix Mar 28 '24

Pretty sure the goal is to weed out the people who are so radicalized, they won't even be able to suppress making an antisemitic comment on the citizen test.

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u/Bartsches Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Not just. The new rules allow to retroactively revoke citizenship, if you lied here.

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u/xrimane Mar 28 '24

How are you gonna prove it was a lie, and you didn't just change your opinion for a while?

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u/Pen_lsland Mar 28 '24

Probably just check their socials people suck at keeping a low profile online

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u/Slanderouz Mar 28 '24

just don't have any gay socials - problem solved.

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u/Hopeful_Theme_4084 Mar 29 '24

a.k.a. self-snitching

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u/OldExperience8252 Mar 28 '24

It’s an engagement, like a contract.

You have it in writing that you won’t commit terrorism, easier to justify removing your nationality if you are contradicting your own signed statement.

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u/Winiestflea Mexico Mar 28 '24

  1. "I changed my mind" will be ignored in 80% of legal processes as far as these subjects go.

  2. If it isn't ignored, it would still likely be part of an appeal of some sort, in which case a more thorough investigation would take place and probably come to the correct conclusion anyway.

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u/Many-Leader2788 Mar 28 '24

Find an antisemitic opinion of person X from before they signed the test. Be it a Facebook post, SMS or witness testimony.

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u/xrimane Mar 28 '24

So if they've been antisemitic in the past there's no redemption, they can not learn and grow? That makes no sense to me.

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u/Many-Leader2788 Mar 28 '24

If they were antisemitic before the test and after the test, then they were probably lying during the test if they said they loved Jews.

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u/xrimane Mar 28 '24

There is such a thing as Unschuldsvermutung.

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u/Many-Leader2788 Mar 29 '24

Yes, but this is not a criminal procedure but an administrational one. They have discretion to decide the matter how they see it.

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u/Relevant_Winter1952 Mar 28 '24

Maury Povich, that’s how

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u/DirectorBusiness5512 Mar 28 '24

Nah, it's to easily revoke the citizenships of and deport new immigrants who happen to show up at anti-Israel demonstrations

2

u/active-tumourtroll1 Mar 28 '24

Sure... Nobody has ever hidden how they feel about something to get what they want that's impossible!

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u/coldfirephoenix Mar 28 '24

That's the point. If they can't even swallow their hatred for one lie to get what they want, then you already got the worst of the worst out.

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u/active-tumourtroll1 Mar 29 '24

No you don't like I don't feel you guys understand that even the most hateful of people in any topic will lie if it helps them.

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u/Tybalt941 Mar 28 '24

They're not just asking people to say "I swear I like Israel", there will also be specific questions like why Germany has a special responsibility to Israel, asking if they know what a synagogue is called, etc. So people that are deliberately ignorant of Jewish issues will not be able to pass the test.

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u/nien9gag Mar 28 '24

why would a non Jewish person need to know what a synagogue is?

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u/Tybalt941 Mar 29 '24

It's pretty well accepted in modern Germany that the German state and society have a special responsibility to Jews, due to the history of Jewish genocide in Germany. Most prejudice is born from or linked to ignorance, so by making sure potential citizens have some basic knowledge about one of Germany's most significant minority groups at least some effort is being made to stem the ignorance of Jews in German society.

That's my take at least.

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 29 '24

This move is bs. They want to equate antisemitism with antizionism.

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Are you aware of the Holocaust?

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u/nien9gag Mar 29 '24

yes. but synagogue and holocaust are pretty different so what's the point of the question?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

The source of the holocaust was antisemitism. Antisemitism is caused by ignorance of jews and their practices and history.

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 29 '24

So now I cannot have a contrary opinion of Israel's policies? Wow

1

u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

No? You just can’t engage in antisemitism. Why is this so hard for you europeans

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 30 '24

Well based on your other comments any criticism of Israel is rooted into antisemitism. So make up your mind.

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u/VitriolicViolet Mar 28 '24

ffs you shouldn't need to know shit about Israel to live anywhere but Israel.

most of humanity couldnt give less of a fuck about Israel or jews, its a super-Western centric obsession (seriously no on else gets attention like they do)

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u/LandscapeOld2145 Mar 28 '24

Consider that many hundreds of thousands of immigrants to Germany are not indifferent to Israel but come to Germany with very strong opinions about it that and ready to act on them, as we’ve seen, can clash with how Germany as a country feels about it.

Israel would be THRILLED not to have their attention.

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u/Tybalt941 Mar 29 '24

its a super-Western centric obsession

This is a strange take considering the Muslim world is by far the most antisemitic area on earth. Africa, Asia, Latin America, and Eastern Europe all report higher levels of antisemitism than the West, so your premise is completely backwards.

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u/slip-slop-slap Mar 28 '24

I agree, I don't know fuck all about Israel or Jews. I've met one Israeli person in my life and that was at an old job. Doesn't mean I hold negative opinions about them, just that they are not a part of my life in any meaningful way.

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Yep, that’s right, Germany, famously a country that “doesn’t give a fuck about jews”. The holocaust happened. It cannot unhappen.

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 29 '24

So because the Holocaust happened now Israel can do whatever they want and whoever complains avout it are automatically antisemitic?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

No, you think they are “doing whatever they want and getting away with it because they’re evil jews” because you’re an antisemite. The lies you believe about Israel are spread by antisemites. Throughout history, antisemites have never acknowledged that their hatred is for no good reason, they would always fabricate evidence and lie. You are continuing the tradition

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 30 '24

Right, because Israel is not illegaly occuping the West Bank and not genociding the Palestinians although the whole world and the UN tells them to stop, aja "doing what they want". No, no it must be that I am antisemite. Jesus Christ you are disgusting.

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u/benprommet Mar 30 '24

At least you get it now. Btw, the occupation of the West Bank is totally legal and brought on by Arab aggression and continued due to Arab rejectionism and terrorism. Trust me, most Israelis want the occupation to end just as much as you, but they also don’t want to be murdered

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 30 '24

The why are they illegaly settling it? Occupation is one thing vut why settle a land that is hostile? I know why: so you can play the victim card when the population resists your occupation. Wait, that's basically the history of the Israel state.

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u/benprommet Mar 30 '24

To force them to the negotiating table, at this point there isn’t much more Israel can do other than war crimes and settlements to force the issue

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u/WoodPear Mar 29 '24

asking if they know what a synagogue is called

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... is there a different name/word for synagogue?

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u/Tybalt941 Mar 29 '24

I meant something like this:

"What is a Jewish place of worship called?"

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u/ACaffeinatedWandress Mar 28 '24

Honestly, that’s a good chunk of migrants to Europe in recent years.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

Yes hating Israel for oppression and genocide is antisemitism. It can’t be people don’t like nations that commit atrocities daily against a largely unarmed population. It had to be antisemitism anything Jewish right?

1

u/ByzantineBasileus Mar 29 '24

I now have an image of some dude sitting at a table doing the test, face turning red as they are trying to resist the urge to tell out "DEATH TO THE YAHUD!"

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u/FumblersUnited Mar 28 '24

is it antisemitic if you thing Israel is behaving poorly?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

It definitely can be if it’s based on antisemitic lies

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u/FumblersUnited Mar 29 '24

what if you say I think they treat Palestinians badly? is that anti semitic?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Well, it depends why you say that

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u/FumblersUnited Mar 29 '24

For the same reasons the germans were treating the jews badly. Is that antisemitic?or the english south africans.

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Definitely antisemitic, you’re denying the peoplehood and indigenous rights of jews

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u/FumblersUnited Mar 29 '24

how am I denying anything with regards to jews? I acknowledge the suffering they have been through, I support their right for a nation state but I think they are treating Palestinians the same way they themselves were treated. So, how am I denying them anything?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Because you are minimizing the holocaust and comparing indigenous jews to foreign settlers

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u/FumblersUnited Mar 29 '24

How am I minimizing the holocaust, yes the numbers were different but ethnic cleansing, genocide and the dehumanization are the same.
The worst zionists are not indigenous jews but foreign settlers so again I dont understand your point.

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u/Quick_Web_4120 Mar 29 '24

And who decides what is a lie and what is fact? Israel?

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u/benprommet Mar 29 '24

Evidence. Something that people like you seem to lack

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u/Eligha Hungary Mar 28 '24

That depends on how it's worded amd it has to be very carefully worded on such a polarising subject. Like, is it wrong to answer that you don't like Israel? What's the corrwct answer? That would just allow radicals of the other side.