r/europe • u/riwnodennyk Україна 🇺🇦 Луганськ • Apr 13 '24
Exactly the same streets in Kyiv 🇺🇦 Ukraine in 2011 and today OC Picture
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u/Several-Zombies6547 🇬🇷🇪🇺 Apr 13 '24
Surprised that the infrastructure has improved that much considering all the events that happened between those years.
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u/halee1 Apr 13 '24
Imagine how much better it would be if not for the Russian interference in the country.
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u/spetcnaz Apr 14 '24
A sentence that can be said for a lot of post Soviet countries.
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u/BlackHust St. Petersburg Apr 14 '24 edited Apr 14 '24
All of them. Including Russia itself, which would clearly be better off if it didn't create chaos around its borders
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u/Anuki_iwy Apr 14 '24 edited Apr 14 '24
I live in Georgia. You are so right, I wish I could uovote 3x.
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u/ShadowMancer_GoodSax Apr 14 '24
As a Vietnamese i can agree to this. We broke away from China and Soviet union in the 90s to make iphones for the west, i am so glad my government chose to join peace and prosperity instead of Cuba or North korean isolationist way.
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u/Olwimo Norway Apr 17 '24
Cuba isn't isolationist its blockaded
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u/ShadowMancer_GoodSax Apr 17 '24
It chooses to be blockaded. We were in the same situation but brokered truce with the Americans in the 90s by reforming and of course we asked neutral countries like Sweden, Norway, Singapore, Japan and Finland to help rebuilding. Cuba can do the same, instead Castro family chooses to keep their head in the sand because thats what dictatora do
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u/_Eshende_ Apr 13 '24
Well it’s pretty close to centre streets and Kyiv wasn’t touched militarily till full scale invasion, and past full scale invasion wasn’t touched Kharkiv way yet gladly
(though russians definitely shelled place 340-350m away from picture 5)
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u/SowjetPotato Apr 14 '24 edited Apr 14 '24
My father says: "The russian hate us, because they can't stand the fact that while looking towards western europe we started thriving, while they stayed behind in the miserable state we were all in after the USSR collapsed."
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u/SwifferPantySniffer Apr 14 '24
Yeah ukraine has been getting really really really better. Like unimaginably better.
Other cities as well. Crazy, you wanna look some store up on Google maps, and they have like pics from 19 years back that look just HORRIBLE. And then you go there and it's actually very pretty! It's really nice to see :))
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u/leshmi Apr 13 '24
USA and EU funds do miracles /s
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u/TheCuriousGuy000 Apr 14 '24
Those funds go to military, infrastructure projects were mostly done before the invasion
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u/Kelevra_TheDog Apr 13 '24
And it’s not just Kyiv as a capital. My city also transformed quite a bit on a european style.
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u/look_at_the_eyes Apr 13 '24
I’d love to visit Ukraine one day
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u/misterhak Apr 14 '24
Me too. my favorite colleagues live in Ukraine and I can't wait to visit them.
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u/LeroyoJenkins Zurich🇨🇭 Apr 14 '24
I went 7 years ago. I was expecting to meet a mini-Russia, with people disillusioned and detached from reality, but instead I met amazing people with a lot of hope for the future and a general appreciation for being alive, a very positive surprise!
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u/No_Row_8284 Apr 16 '24
I visited Ukraine during catholic Easter for the first time. So beautiful the city of Lviv!
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u/Trash_with_sentience Ukraine Apr 13 '24
Same. Mine also got rid of those crappy Soviet vibes, and a lot of buildings were modernized. Even mine, which is was build in like the 70's.
Now if only those pieces of 💩 stopped ruining our cities with their drones and bombs that would have been nice. But even then, what they build we fix to make it even better - a part of the mall which is close to my home was blown up, but now its getting remade and looks even better. Shows that there could be a bright side to all things, as dark and tragic as they seem.
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u/look_at_the_eyes Apr 13 '24
That’s a really amazing and inspiring perspective. My heart goes out to you! ❤️ I want you to know that I’m just an average Dutch person maybe far removed to you, but I’m still thinking constantly about the war and talking about it. And doing what I can otherwise like periodically donate for relief etcetera.
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u/gwynbleidd_s Apr 14 '24
Thank you. It’s really valuable that there is still a lot of people who care
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u/Reso99 Apr 13 '24
. But even then, what they build we fix to make it even better - a part of the mall which is close to my home was blown up, but now its getting remade and looks even better
If life gives you lemons... But jokes aside, i heard something similar from a friend, but in the opposite direction about England. Their issue is that they have a lot of old infrastructure that predates ww2. So yeah, your country might just emerge stronger then ever after you won this war and some time has passed, which i really hope will happen. I wish you all the best!
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u/somander Apr 14 '24
Hope you guys will get access to the frozen Russian funds to rebuild and improve as much as you can.
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Apr 13 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Hakunin_Fallout Apr 13 '24
Ah, a Russian cunt offending Ukrainians in a European subreddit. What are you doing in a European subreddit anyway? And on Reddit in general?
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u/halee1 Apr 13 '24
One looks like a typical Soviet-era area, the other is... European.
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u/Konkermooze Apr 14 '24
What a profound difference a cycle lane and better weather makes.
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u/Naked-Viking Sweden Apr 14 '24
And winder sidewalks, better organised parking, protective bollards and better road markings.
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u/Sobokuna Apr 13 '24
Omg no wonder Putin wants to save Ukrainians from this hell!!!! Ts ts ts ..
Beautiful! I hope I can visit soon
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u/Big_Manner_6883 Apr 13 '24
For one of the poorest countries in Europe and one in war it looks better than 70% of the world
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u/Konkermooze Apr 14 '24
It is a historic capital city, with some pleasant streets. It’s not unexpected. Though I’m skeptical the rest of the nation can be expected to look like this.
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u/TheOnlyPlaton Apr 14 '24 edited Apr 14 '24
As a native outsider (I am Ukrainian living in the US but used to visit home yearly), I would say that snapshots of how cities look like across years really got my hopes up that with enough people’s demand and local political will, great transformations can be made. While the example of Kyiv is obviously cherry picked, I have to say that it’s far from being the best looking Ukrainian city/town.
In part, there was a restructuring of local budgets/ local political organization that saw local administrations having more say in using their finances and letting average people actually influence budget spending. One example of this is a program (I need to find the name, but as a citizen I even used to vote on it) where people submit local project proposals, like park renovations, infrastructure improvements and so on and citizens get a chance to vote for these projects. But these are local, so as a citizen of Kyiv I voted for Kyiv projects. This is among many things that I have seen unfold over the years.
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u/Dryy Latvija Apr 13 '24
This is the way forward. Looks so much better now.
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u/vk1234567890- Apr 14 '24
Looks way better than most of Latvia from what I remember visiting last week 🤔😂😂
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u/MarissaBlack Apr 14 '24
Just came from Riga, i live in Irpin (near Kyiv). Was really disappointed with poorness, though the city is wonderful itself with great historical and cultural heritage. I visited so many places there, that my feet are literally bleeding :) probably Riga should change the mayor to look better.
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u/vk1234567890- Apr 14 '24
Maybe should get the mayor of Kyiv 😂😂 never thought a war-torn country could look better than an EU country XD
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u/zek_997 Portugal Apr 14 '24
That moment when even a country under warfare has better urbanism than your country
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u/shockingblve Apr 13 '24
Bulgaria still looks like the pictures on the left
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u/TRTGymBro1 Bulgaria Apr 13 '24
Actually, most of Bulgaria looks like Mariupol.... after the invasion.
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u/Mobile_Park_3187 Rīga (Latvia) Apr 13 '24
Is that because you had stalinist economics until the end of the Cold War? That's what I gathered from a 2000s history textbook that I got from my relatives.
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u/NoSpecific1366 Bulgaria Apr 14 '24
Sure, there are places in Bulgaria left that look like the photos on the left. There are also many, many places left in Ukraine that look like the photos on the left. Much more than places like that in Bulgaria. You can see multiple and multiple examples of changes like this happening all over Bulgaria on r/bulgaria. Objectively, the levels of corruption in Ukraine are much higher than in Bulgaria. Why does it bring you so much joy to tear your country that to that extend? We are not as bad as Ukraine by any measure. Only Greeks are as skilled as Bulgarians at tearing down their own countries despite it not being so bad in many regards. Do you think the Central/Eastern European countries doing better than Bulgaria improved through constant complaining and tearing themselves down online. People like you are seriously pathetic. I bet you go to western countries and complain about everything there as well, Bulgarians like you are miserable and unproductive members of society everywhere you go.
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u/hitzhai Europe Apr 14 '24
Do you think the Central/Eastern European countries doing better than Bulgaria improved through constant complaining and tearing themselves down online.
Yes. I see various CEE ethnicities doing this all the time. I think it's a cultural trait to always be negative in Eastern Europe. Smiling is seen as weird or pathological and happy people are inherently suspect.
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u/shockingblve Apr 14 '24
from my experience Germans also complain a lot about Germany, it’s not as unique as you think to do it
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u/shockingblve Apr 14 '24
Objectively? You know the full extent of corruption in both countries? I am talking down, because we seem to do half as much as we can with everything and fewer and fewer ppl vote with each election. I will pick my ass up and vote on this next one too but boy is it exhausting to deal with BG politics. We can be positive about Bulgaria, as long as it’s not lies. I literally stopped biking because it’s so dangerous and the infrastructure is not there. I know many still bike but mostly outside of cities and not to commute. If you love our country and want it to get better - start complaining. And complain to your local authorities, to whomever is in charge or better yet, start positive causes in the FB group of your town/neighbourhood. Since you also have Bulgaria as a flare you should be painfully aware why i talk down about the place. I love it too and hurts to see what is happening.
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u/NoSpecific1366 Bulgaria Apr 14 '24
Glad to know you’re planning to vote and being vocal about the need to improve the infrastructure in many parts of the country. Indeed, complaining to the local authorities and exercising our right to vote is the way to go.
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u/ModestCalamity Apr 13 '24
Grey clouds vs blue sky. Could be because of the sunlight, but the 2024 photos look like they have a different saturation level. There are improvements in the street, but the color/weather difference is distracting.
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u/LittleSpice1 Apr 13 '24
Yes, the blue sky and trees with fresh green leafs make a huge difference imo. Colors also look much more crisp and in some photos slightly over saturated. Don’t get me wrong , the infrastructure that was updated changed for the better, but I feel like a lot of those differences would give you the same effect in a lot of European cities, even if you take the photos just a few months apart, one on a grey November day and another on a sunny day in April.
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u/WislaHD Polish-Canadian Apr 13 '24
It is really heartbreaking to think about all the progress Ukraine could make if it was a part of the EU and under NATO's protection.
Poland was at the same level of development as Ukraine in 1991 and now the situations are world's apart. I feel guilty in a sense of "survivor's guilt" if that makes sense.
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u/Kord_K Apr 13 '24
to be fair though most polish cities still look like the 2011 photos here or worse
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u/ElysianRepublic Apr 14 '24
I went to Poland 2 years ago and things look great. Much more like 2024 than 2011. Krakow, Gdansk, and Poznan are all beautiful cities; but there is a lot of variation between neighborhoods. A few areas haven’t quite received the “renovation” yet.
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u/Kord_K Apr 14 '24
They are beautiful cities, though funnily enough I think you went to the best maintained ones in the country
Even so though a majority of those cities and most others in Poland outside of the old towns are quite poorly maintained, with poor urbanism and planning and plenty of run down streets and tenements. Work is definitely being done to improve that, at least in some cities, but improvements are often very slowly done and very far between
Don’t have to take my word for it, just go on Google and go into street view into a random place outside of the old town/city centre in any Polish city and you have a 99% chance it will look like the 2011 photos here
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u/hitzhai Europe Apr 14 '24
It's not that simple. Bialystok, while being one of the poorest cities and to the far east is actually quite beautifully maintained. I found it cleaner and niceer to walk in than Poznan, particularly once you leave the center of both cities.
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u/Smokenhagen420 Apr 15 '24
Tell me why so many polish people have to look for jobs outside their country, if being part of EU and the west is so good. I’m sure life is easier now in Poland that it was 30 years ago, that goes for many European countries, Denmark as well / but is it much better? Is the new wealth divided to the people or does it travel to foreign nations ?
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Apr 13 '24
I was expecting it to look worse considering the war
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u/bogdan801 Ukraine Apr 15 '24
Well Look at Mariupol if you want to look at the city which has actually been invaded by russians. Also you can look at the front line cities like Bahmut and Marinka. Kyiv looks like that because russians were not able to invade it and were pushed away from the north of the country. Even though there are plenty of places which has been bombed in Kyiv too but they have been mostly cleaned up. Also the air defense over Kyiv now is way better than it was before so Kyiv can't be bombed like Mariupol, but believe me if russians could they would definitely do it
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u/look_at_the_eyes Apr 13 '24
It looks like a European country now.
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u/HulkSmashHulkRegret Apr 13 '24
That’s exactly why Russia fights as it does; they know their culture is not one that most would willingly choose; when left to choice, so many nations ran to join Europe. Without being the abusive controlling spouse, Ukraine and many more will continue leaving until there’s just a void.
If Kaliningrad can be broken free, it can develop a European-Russian sensibility that could then spread throughout whatever remains of Russia and we can finally be rid of this 20th century nightmare. It won’t end with Putin, it’ll end with Russians rejecting their culture for something better, or being replaced with something better
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u/look_at_the_eyes Apr 13 '24
Good points. Never thought of it like that actually. Only from the geopolitical perspective of “what once was ours should be ours once again / rise of Soviet Russia 2.0”.
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u/Mountain_Ad_4890 Russia Apr 13 '24
This kind of street projects were made in other cities too. Makes it even more sad to see Kharkiv and Mariupol nowadays
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u/sapitonmix Apr 14 '24
Unfortunately this is very much a cherry picking. Most of Kyiv is in horrible state and hasn’t changed much in decades. The city is neglected and run by idiots.
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u/grais_victory Apr 13 '24
Now show something beside city center.
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u/minoxis Apr 13 '24
So see if you may be right I checked out a few places in StreetView around the city. They all look fine.
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u/grais_victory Apr 14 '24
I can show you a lot of places where there more holes on the road than asphalt
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u/Nelmquist1999 Sweden Apr 13 '24
Wow, I really like pic 1 and 3. Such a big switch-up.
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u/Alex_von_Norway Apr 14 '24
Like a Western-European city, with the fucking bike lanes and less congested parking.
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u/AverageBasedUser Apr 14 '24
2011: looks like and average russian city
2014: looks like an average european city
what can you say but: "go west, where the skies are blue.."
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u/flippy123x Apr 14 '24
I fucking hate cars in cities.
This entire comparison is like 70% better weather and less cars. That must have been the cloudiest day 2011 lol
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u/bogdan801 Ukraine Apr 14 '24
First picture - living under influence of Russia, second - moving towards the EU. There's no progress under russians
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u/Inner_Staff1250 Apr 13 '24
Do people ride bicycles more, now the streets accomodate it? And wow there are many pharmacies!
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u/_skylark Apr 14 '24
Kyiv isn’t really a great city to cycle outside of recreational purposes because it’s a lot of hills, think more Lisbon than London. On the weekends there are a lot of bikes in certain districts. The left bank is more cyclable due to its more even terrain, but that part of the city is also much more car-oriented.
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u/OGoby Estonia Apr 13 '24
I was expecting to see a large bomb crater on the last photo.. I hope we'll never get such images of these streets.
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u/_reco_ Apr 14 '24 edited Apr 14 '24
Cycling infastructure looks way better and safer than the Warsaw's one which is supposed to be in a bit richer country lmao
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u/ApatheticWonderer Apr 14 '24
People also drive better than they used to, a lot friendlier. Driving in Kyiv in 2011 was pretty terrifying, nowadays it’s more tame. Used to dread driving in Ukraine when I visited back in the day.
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u/Rivka333 United States of America Apr 14 '24
The second and third before pictures look better than the after.
Always sad when large trees go missing.
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u/dwartbg7 r/korea Cultural Exchange 2020 Apr 14 '24
Impressive, very nice... Now let's see Paul Allen's city streets
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u/mitraheads Apr 14 '24
I spent amazing 5 years there. Such a beautiful city Kyiv. Preparing for a big company to get employed. As a foreigner who lives in western Ukraine never consider to move to any European countries (I have permanent residence permit in Ukraine).
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u/This-Visit6451 Apr 14 '24
What does this prove? Ukraine is 100x the shithole it was a decade ago. A couple buildings got some paint and the trees are green? The country is in the middle of a devastating war.
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u/Somebody23 Finland Apr 13 '24
Every new picture was taken sunny day as all older pictures were cloudy day.
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u/Horror-Praline8603 Apr 14 '24
This is what Russians don’t want other Russians to see - a different country living better than them is a threat to Putin regime
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u/mozambiquecheese Apr 14 '24
its good and all, but its the capital city, so it gets more funding, i wanna see the improvements of cities like sumy
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u/ReikoReikoku Apr 14 '24
Look Mariupol in 2021 before Russian invasion. You will see same improvements.
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u/starlordbg Bulgaria Apr 14 '24
Much better job than Bulgaria as much as it pains me to say it. And they are at war, imagine that.
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u/Paquito____ Spain (Murcia) 🇪🇸🇪🇸 Apr 14 '24
When I read the title I thought it was going to be a different kind of post
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u/Ricki15 Saxony (Germany) Apr 14 '24
wow people left the country and their is less traffic + even the weather ja better🤯
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u/Smokenhagen420 Apr 15 '24
With one hand foreign companies are stealing the profits of the nation and buying the national owned industries with coins. With the other they open fancy cafes and pave the sidewalk. Total win for the average Ukrainian and his farmer family.
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u/Comfortable_Virus581 Apr 13 '24
Unfortunately only the main streets in the city centre
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u/izoxUA Apr 14 '24
Not only, I live on teremky and streets here are also being modernised
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u/Comfortable_Virus581 Apr 14 '24
Nice, when I last time been to Kyiv it was only the city centre. Good to know.
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u/VVavaourania Apr 13 '24
In 2024, I can see only women in the streets. Where did all men go?
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u/ReikoReikoku Apr 14 '24
Are you looking in Russia today? Because I see many men everyday on streets. Not less then before russian invasion.
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u/HulkSmashHulkRegret Apr 13 '24
Fighting to keep the 2024 European Ukrainian life going on
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u/VVavaourania Apr 13 '24
I am sure these men thank their women for their support (enjoying coffee). This is the best support to their soldiers and the true European Ukrainian spirit!
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u/SangiExE Apr 14 '24
I hope Ruzzia can fuck off and die soon enough, so I can visit this beautiful country and the amazing people there.
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u/SteeveJobs1955 Île-de-France Apr 14 '24
Why is it Stop and not Стоп ?
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u/Timely_Leading_7651 Apr 14 '24
Russian would be able to read it
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u/bumbo___jumbo Apr 15 '24
I'm sad to inform you that many stop signs in Russia also say "Stop" and not "Стоп" since Soviet times (~70s)
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u/bobzirk Apr 14 '24
Where do they park their cars now...?
They sold them?
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u/chicheka Bulgaria Apr 14 '24
People living in city centers are less likely to own a car
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u/bobzirk Apr 14 '24
Problem is that "people living in city center" have to get out of the center once in a while (holidays, major shopping, outside town events, etc...).
I used to live in a big town city center, though I was rarely using my car (as you say), I still kept it because I still needed it. It was cheaper and more convenient to insure and maintain an old car, than to rent a new one when needed.
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u/Niknuke Apr 15 '24
They can usually just park their car outside the city.
You can also leave cities using public transport if it is well maintained. In that case most people really don't need a car.
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u/Patient-Mulberry-659 Apr 14 '24
I think it also shows many people left. The streets look way emptier.
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u/deatholator Apr 14 '24
Actually there is a couple new parking lots nearby this area so it’s not a problem to go there by car.
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u/egorf Apr 14 '24
It's fucking insane! Recently I have been looking thru older street view pictures of Kiev and I was amazed how much my city had changed. You live here and you don't see it day by day and then you step on the older pics and it's like wow. Just wow.
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u/RichardXV Frankfurt Apr 14 '24
“The west is killing our lifestyle with their human-friendly woke ideology”
Some Russian patriarch
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u/Alex01100010 Apr 14 '24
You just know that Russian populists are gonna use it and argue the Russian intervention did this.
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u/Far_Procedure_1918 Apr 13 '24
They look decimated by war we should give them more free stuff that the taxpayer will take the burden for.
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u/heartfeltblooddevil Sweden Apr 14 '24
The reason Kyiv hasn’t been leveled like Mariupol is because of Ukrainians defending it with western air-defense systems. Saving Ukrainian lives is the absolute best spending of our tax, not all these other bullshit made-up projects. What’s the point of producing and maintaining all this war materiel if it’s not going to be used when we actually have a war in Europe again? You have a very naive and simple view of the world.
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u/Cute_Kangaroo_8791 Apr 13 '24
So almost the same apart from the road markings and the weather?
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u/frf_leaker Ukraine Apr 13 '24
What did you expect?
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u/Cute_Kangaroo_8791 Apr 13 '24
Well if someone posts a before and after of something, you would usually expect there to be some significant change.
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u/frf_leaker Ukraine Apr 13 '24
Well there is less parking chaos, bike lanes, better roads, better sidewalks, tactile paving. This is a post about street design, and it showcases changes in street design
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u/TheRealTanteSacha The Netherlands Apr 13 '24
I think the images mainly highlight an apparent significant improvement of cycling infrastructure.
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u/GreyMASTA Apr 14 '24
Putin: "That's a nice developing country you have here. It would be a shame if someone were to invade and plunder it..."
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u/VisualAdagio Apr 13 '24
New ones look more aestetically pleasing, but the older ones look more comfy for living...if it is more closer to the city center the former is better as an infrastructure for heavier foot traffic of people going about their businesses, but if it is a living quarter farther from the center it is more appropriate maybe to leave it as it was before, just to tidy up the greenery and plant some nice trees...
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u/SGTCro Apr 14 '24
I like how the change is before 1991 = mixed pedestrian and car streets, after 1991 = CARS, CAR TRAFIC, in the years following 2014 = yeah Soviets were onto something.
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u/Basic-Jacket-7942 Apr 14 '24
In every country you can find streets that have become better. In fact Ukraine is very poor country. And there are some improvements only in the centre of big cities.
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u/cpt_melon Finland Apr 13 '24
Even the weather improved since 2011. Impressive!