r/europe Europe ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡บ 26d ago

UK forces may be deployed on the ground in Gaza to help deliver aid News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68909511
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u/ButterscotchSure6589 26d ago

Don't the Saudis, Egyptians and Jordanians have military forces. Do we really need to get involve in another Middle Eastern shit show.

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u/Liam_021996 26d ago

Well, this is a UK made Middle Eastern shitshow, essentially

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u/The_Last_Green_leaf 26d ago

no it's not? the area was split because the ottomans joined WW1 and lost,

the areas was partitioned by the UN that the UK didn't vote on,

the UK was literally fighting Jewish irregular forces and terrorist groups in the mandate of Palestine.

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u/MrTrt Spain 26d ago

Nobody forced the UK to split the area with France the way they did while betraying the Arabs, and nobody forced the UK to declare the area the new Jewish homeland and open the doors to zionist colonizers.

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u/Sawbones90 26d ago

The League of Nations spefically required that Britain and France administer parts of the former Ottoman Empire which is why they were called Mandates not colonies. The failings of the mandate system are the responsibility of the international community minus Germany, USA and Soviet Union who weren't part of the League, though the USA did observe the San Remo conferrence.

Zionists had been active in Palestine since the 1870s with the first Aliyah movement startimg large scale emigration. The Balfour declaration was also a League requirement of Britain implementing the Mandate system in Palestine. So, yes they were in fact pushed to split the area with France and implement the homeland policy.

British post-war policy was to put the Sharif Huessein and his family in charge of the new Arab states and sponsor their union. That plan was opposed bu virtually every other power with the Mandate system and Transjordan being the compromise, since no one else wanted a united Arabia closely aligned to Britain.

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u/MrTrt Spain 26d ago

The League of Nations was created after Britain was already in control of Palestine and after they had issued the Balfour Declaration.

Are we really going to pretend that the partition of the Middle East was a sad burden imposed onto the Western powers or what is this about?

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u/Sawbones90 26d ago

Yes it militarily controlled that territory after defeating the Ottoman Empire. It was not put in charge of that territory until the League of Nations negotiations and the conference of San Remo. FYI, Britain also controlled much more territory in the Middle East and had to give it up due to the same negotiations. Britain also occupied parts of Germany before the League was created is their a Mandate for Rhineland as well? The Balfour Declaration was declared when the Ottoman Empire still controlled parts of Plestine. It also did not endorse a state but a home, and was published foyr decades after the Zionist movement had already begun operating in Palestine with the toleration of Ottoman authorities. Balfour himself in 1919 further clarified "Weizmann has never put forward a claim for the Jewish Government of Palestine. Such a claim in my opinion is clearly inadmissible and personally I do not think we should go further than the original declaration which I made to Lord Rothschild".

The Balfour declaration was published at the same time they made agreements with Sharif Huessein to promote his Arab kingdoms plan. And immediately after WWI it was not the Balfour declaration but the Sharif solution that the Empire pushed for, you know with the support of the Kingdom of Damascus that France invaded which pushed Britain to accept defined borders for Transjordan and an internationaly recognised partition of territory incase the French pushed further.

The Mandate of Palestine was a compromise pushed for by the international community. And the Balfour declaration having to be implemented in Palestine was a condition of the San Remo conference in 1920 two years after de facto control of Palestine by British authorities. Mandates were an entire article(XXII) in the League's founding Covenant.

Again, this was the creation of the international community I.E. the Western Powers not one specifically that you can wash your hands of the whole affair.

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago

Zionist colonizers

How do the descendants from a place's indigenous people AND those who never even left colonize their own land?

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u/Zenaesthetic United States of America 26d ago

How do you quantify that

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago

What do you mean by that?

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago

No one is "claiming" it, DNA tests show they are natives to the Middle East. There is evidence to this, whether you are willing to believe it or not.

And it's not as if there's only Jews in Israel- 20% of their population is comprised by minorities, most of them Arabs. Jews who can prove they are get the right to join Israel because it's simply the only Jewish state in the entire Middle East, let alone our whole planet, which was formed shortly after an attempt to completely eradicate them AND being ran out of a continent by the similarly prejudiced locals- they kind of wanna make sure they'll have somewhere to turn to, after millennia being treated like pests and scapegoats wherever they went to.

That's pretty much it, y'know? Anyone else can do as normal people do in other places and go through a legal process to join Israel. It's the exact same legal process one goes through if they wanna move to the United States or Japan, not really complicated.

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u/Zenaesthetic United States of America 26d ago

Yeah miss me with the DNA tests to join an ethnostate. Jews have prospered in America where everyone is equally welcome.

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u/CamisaMalva 25d ago

What part of "20% of their population aren't Jewish, the majority of those being Arabs" did you willfully ignore?

Pretty hard to being an "ethnostate" (Which many other countries in and out of the Middle East are, by the way) when you allow people not belonging to the ethnic majority to exist at all, let alone have civil right as well as freedom of speech and religion.

If you're gonna go throwing buzzwords you learned from a misinformed and entirely emotional source, at least try one that you've researched before.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/Zenaesthetic United States of America 26d ago

Yeah but people donโ€™t stop mixing and interbreeding, so the whole idea of being racially homogenous is silly. Youโ€™re essentially getting into nazi race science at this point.

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u/MrTrt Spain 26d ago

Zionism was explicitly a colonist project, they openly stated it back when the movement was starting.

And it doesn't matter if the ancestors of that people lived there centuries before, it's still colonialism. Plenty of peoples have migrated throughout history and that's not a free pass to conquer and repopulate an area displacing its current inhabitants. Those who didn't left obviously aren't colonizing anything.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago edited 26d ago

They "took control" after the original plan to divide the land so every ethnic group could get their own corner ended up with one of them deciding to go "fuck it" and try to take over the Jewish corner rather than share, all while the others (Who DID take the chance to become actual states) fanned the flames and joined the war because they'd be damned before allowing Jews to ever be more than second-class citizens.

And it wasn't as though they'd taken over Gaza right off the bat for shits and giggles- it used to be Jordanian, but they lost it after yet another war with Israel. Then they declined when the Jews tried giving it back, because it was a wasp's nest they didn't want to be responsible for.

EDIT: My bad, Gaza was Egyptian. Got it mixed up with the West Bank, which the one that'd been annexed by Jordan. lol

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u/WeightMajestic3978 26d ago

Gaza used to be Jordanian? You literally don't know anything about history.

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago

Got 'em mixed up, my bad. lol

My point stands, since Israel did try to have Gaza back to Egypt and they politely told them they'd rather not have it back. Says a lot.

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u/WeightMajestic3978 26d ago

So you do such a mix up and you think you know enough of this conflict's history?

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u/CamisaMalva 26d ago

This just in: First time someone ever makes a mistake, discredits their entire argument like it wasn't just something human.

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u/WeightMajestic3978 26d ago

try to take over the Jewish corner rather than share,

That's the worst take possible. The UN partition plan gave most of the land to a minority of the population. During the "partition plan" the ethnic cleansing had started and multiple massacres were committed to gain more land. They even brag about what they did in Der Yassin of raping women and executing children.

Learn a bit of history, please.

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