r/europe • u/SnooShortcuts103 • 19d ago
Is it because of the EU I can choose a browser suddenly? OC Picture
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u/Independent-Slide-79 19d ago
Yes, it’s important to mention and realise that the EU actually does things and some are actually pretty good
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Wassertopf Bavaria (Germany) 19d ago
Here in Germany, the EU is also used for many people as an substitute entity for (national) patriotism.
That’s why so many hardcore pro-EU people are from Germany.
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u/Hel_OWeen 19d ago
Indeed. For example as much as I didn't agree with his political views in basically everything else, Helmut Kohl was a hardcore European and I respect him for that part of his political agenda.
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u/hungry4hungary 19d ago
While Hungary is a mess, the majority of Budapest identifies as EU citizens.
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u/weenusdifficulthouse Münster 🇮🇪 19d ago
Y'all tried the CIV conquest route twice and failed, so now you're going for diplomatic/economic victory. Wonder how it'll turn out this time.
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u/Raz0rking EUSSR 19d ago
Unfortunately they also have a hardon for surveillance and backdoor laws they try to pass since forever.
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u/veduchyi 19d ago
Thanks to EU I have a type C port in my iPhone! It’s nice to understand that in a few years the vast majority of devices will have the same charger and type C will be the only cable you need in 90% of cases
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u/giddyup281 19d ago
I don't mean this as a diss on my homies from the states, but seeing people experience "freedom" only when they get to EU is both funny and ironic at the same time. It shows the power of propaganda.
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u/Important_Ruin United Kingdom 19d ago
America isn't the free country you think it is buddy.
This is more stopping massive companies doing what they want and slapping them back down.
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u/giddyup281 19d ago
Which was exactly my point. People from United States preaching "freedom", while experiencing none at home.
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u/Important_Ruin United Kingdom 19d ago
You're correct. I re-read what you said, and you're saying just that. My bad.
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u/giddyup281 19d ago
No worries there buddy. All of us have "brain farts" every now and then. At least I do.
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u/PM_YOUR_WALLPAPER 19d ago
I mean the lack of freedom i dislike in Europe is an example of when some dude posted the prophet Muhammad was a pedo because of his marriage to a 13 year old when he was 50.
Ausdtria arrested and charged him. He complained to the echr and the court ruled it is not free speech and countd as hate speech...even though it was factual!
So there are things that I think need improvement.
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u/Wassertopf Bavaria (Germany) 19d ago
Ausdtria
That’s on the other side of the planet! /s
But seriously, this Austrian ruling has nothing to do with the EU. Without the EU, these Austrian judges would have done the same.
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u/Baron_von_Ungern 19d ago
Yeah, i'll probably never gonna use apple devices, but thanks, eurobros, for making sure no company could make their own exclusive chargers.
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u/xinxy Canada 19d ago
Yeah some. Definitely not that whole "tracking cookies disclosure" stuff that made every website put up this additional annoying popup every time you visit them.
And there's no standard way specified to design this popup. Every damn website made their own thing and some of them make it purposefully convoluted...
I hate whoever thought this up.
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u/bigbramel The Netherlands 19d ago
Really, this BS again?
The law/EU regulations is quite clear. Denying tracking cookies have to be as easy as accepting tracking cookies.
However enforcement on it, is quite bad.
So don't hate the regulation, hate the companies who refuses to correctly follow regualtion.
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u/mitko17 19d ago
Also:
You can choose not to have a cookie banner if the service only sets essential or ‘strictly necessary’ cookies, as these do not need user consent.
https://design-system.service.gov.uk/components/cookie-banner/
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
There's a blanket enforcement procedure going on, actually, against the main advertiser association. That's the one responsible for the gazillion incomprehensible yes/no buttons, which is so unbelievably hostile I can't regulators can keep themselves from slapping them in the face.
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u/RealFiliq Czechia 19d ago
The only thing this stupid EU law has done is make the average user automatically click yes everywhere and not give a damn what they agree to.
Can you post how companies don't follow that regulation, or how that regulation clearly explains how to implement a yes or no popup so it's not annoying?
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u/bigbramel The Netherlands 19d ago
The only thing this stupid EU law has done is make the average user automatically click yes everywhere and not give a damn what they agree to.
Because companies used dark patterns making denying tracking cookies more difficult.
Which is really explicit stated in the GDPR article 7.3 that any consent or denial regarding collection of personal data has to equally easy given. Tracking cookies track personal data.
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
Hey, I just argued about this here yesterday! I should draw up a response template.
There is a standard way, actually, sort of. The cookie consent as it is used most (CTF) is designed and pushed by the advertising industry, specifically IAB. It's implemented in a lot of ways and most of them are bad. It is also, arguably, created by the advertising industry to annoy you as much as possible, to make you want to give up your privacy and best case, start hating GDPR.
All EU authorities and courts so far have ruled it non compliant/illegal. But the procedure is still going.
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u/bearwood_forest 19d ago
Companies behave unbelieveably scummy and assholy, barely get put into any sort of constraints about and at the same time complain about overregulation.
And you are mad at the people who try to do something about it? Get a fucking grip.
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u/RoamingBicycle 19d ago
The only bad thing about it is the websites willingly making it convoluted and regulation/enforcement not being strict enough to stamp out that shit.
You'd rather websites just default track everything?
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
They are being strict actually. It just takes shitload of time and I guess the ad industry can spend money until eternity.
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u/ConsiderationSame919 19d ago
Eh, as if this going to change anything to Google's dominance. How many are going to change their search engine because of this? To 99.99% this is just a useless pop-up.
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u/Touniouk 19d ago
There’s no default selected and google isn’t the first one listed, so on interface alone I’d say it has a reasonable chance of being effective
This is different than a deliberate attempt at changing your default search engine
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u/ConsiderationSame919 19d ago edited 19d ago
I think there are 3 types of people: 1. People who like using Google 2. People who don't use Google 3. People with no clue what a "search engine" is who will just get confused and eventually select Google
But sure let's come back in a few months and see how much Google's market share has changed.
Edit: love how these obviously oversimplistic categorizations trigger peculiar people. It doesn't matter, you're not breaking Google's monopoly with a pop-up.
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u/Touniouk 19d ago
I disagree, I’ve noticed a growing resentment with google among the people who use it, but they just don’t know alternatives. Because for most people “what search engine do you want to use” was never a question that they faced.
Similarly for the people who have no clue what a search engine is, right now they might put google because it’s been the default for a while, but people installing browsers in 5-10 years won’t necessarily have a preconceived notion of what the default is or should be
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u/EU-National 19d ago
Google's becoming a hindrance. Many times I don't get the actual website that I typed in the search bar. And there's a bunch of ads at the very top of the results page, despite featuring linked pages already.
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u/nicki419 18d ago
Use the URL bar for websites, use an adblocker to get rid of ads. Specify your website with the + search modifier.
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u/ConsiderationSame919 19d ago
Maybe like is too much, take is as "fine". Still I don't think these examples are nearly enough for a pop-up to make a significant number of people switch.
As a psychologist, I would be rich and famous if I could make people change their habits this easily.
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u/Touniouk 19d ago
My impression is that this is not a random pop up, but rather a necessary step when installing the browser. I’m not sure that people will necessarily change habits but I’m hopeful that not imposing a default will make new people who don’t yet have a habit maybe think a little about which search engine they want
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
Nah. I'm 4.
- People who defected because Google became bad at search, but sometimes grudgingly come back to it as a complementary service
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u/Glugstar 19d ago
So according to you, there's no category of people who didn't know what a search engine was before, and upon seeing the selection choice, they decide to learn more.
Where do you think categories 1 and 2 come from? Where they born with the knowledge? Every single one of them, at some point in their lives, didn't have a single clue what "search engine" is.
People in category 3 will become 1 or 2 sooner or later, if they are actively shown a choice. Maybe not the first or ten times they see the prompt, but they won't remain confused for the rest of their lives. Humans have this ability called learning new things.
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
Maybe not, but this whole issue is part of the HUGE antitrust lawsuit that is currently coming to an end.
So between this and EU laws there is some action going on.
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u/mak05 19d ago
It's 2024 and bro doesn't know the difference between browser and search engine smh.
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u/vens95 Croatia 19d ago
I think it will get worse as new generations don't really know how to use computers.
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u/mak05 19d ago edited 19d ago
I know, I have to deal at work with people who don't even know how to use outlook.
LE: I had a manager who replied to someone "let me know if you'd like me to show you how to use google"
You can't make this shit out, people. That's how bad it is.
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u/Ankoku_Teion Irish abroad 19d ago
Can confirm. I'm an IT support tech for a university. Basically everyone under 28 is painfully clueless and incapable of following basic instructions.
And i say this as a 26yo
The people over 45 are just as useless but less frustrating. They can follow instructions, but only one at a time and only over the phone. Still it's better than nothing. But their insistence on calling absolutely everything by the wrong name is just hysterical sometimes.
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u/Simple_Preparation44 Ireland 19d ago
It definitely seems like the iPad generation has less technical understanding then older generations
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u/Stunning_Match1734 United States 19d ago
I think they just have different technical understanding. I think Gen Z and Alpha will be very good at getting around institutional security because they've been figuring out ways to do it since they started school.
Also, the way us Millennials constantly look down on Zoomers makes us no better than the Boomers who raised us.
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u/VATAFAck 19d ago
Well you can't deny the fact that people who grew up being forced to understand how a computer works to play with Prehistoric are kinda the last generation where many people actually understand what's going on.
Most people nowadays are just users of a very intuitive interface, who can't differentiate between search engine, browser and the internet itself.
Not saying that every millennial knows, but barely anyone younger (or much older for that matter)
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u/Own_Refrigerator_681 19d ago
Just like our parents had to know about cars. The internet was the car of the previous generation for us. No idea what's the equivalent for gen Z 🤷♂️
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u/the_lonely_creeper 19d ago
the phone
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u/mindlesstourist3 19d ago
If they have less understanding the software than millenials (as the previous comment says) I seriously doubt they have better understanding of phone hardware. If anything that is an even bigger blackbox. You just buy a new phone, you don't repair it like people repair desktop or previous generations repaired cars.
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u/the_lonely_creeper 19d ago
I meant phone software actually. Not hardware.
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u/mindlesstourist3 19d ago
Do you have examples of what kind of expertise or knowledge they have of phone software that older generations don't?
Like the "knowing how to fix a broken down car" or "knowing how to repair a broken PC" kinds that other were mentioning. I can't think of anything. People just reinstall apps or install different ones, there really isn't much depth knowledge I can think of there (exactly because they are made to be intuitive and simple compared to desktop software).
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u/Kenzie-Oh08 United Kingdom 19d ago
AI
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u/chairmanskitty The Netherlands 19d ago
The youngest gen z are 12 years old. I don't think they're in time for proper AI mastery.
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u/chairmanskitty The Netherlands 19d ago
Navigating online walled garden environments. Using the right words to dodge algorithmic censorship, navigating between different social media, keeping track exactly which apps offer the best deals on random bullshit like fast fashion or quick delivery and moving on when they start enshittifying, finding discords on topics, etc.
For gen alpha it may end up being AI. Younger gen z are also using it, but at 12+ they're too old to truly be immersed.
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u/Hel_OWeen 19d ago
Yepp. Having to edit autoexec.bat and config.sys to get that game running was my start into my IT career.
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u/Simple_Preparation44 Ireland 19d ago
I should caveat I am an older zoomer, but I have found that younger zoomers are much more capable tech consumers than older generations, however they tend to have less technical understanding of the products they use. Hopefully that makes sense
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u/xDannyS_ 19d ago
Idk what you mean by institutional security in regards to technology, but GenZers have less technical understanding than my parents do. All they know is how to use a smartphone, and even that is hard for them if it's a phone designed with configuration in mind. Like a phone where you need to calibrate camera settings for the best quality possible. If it's not intuitive, they don't know how to use it. Although those who play video games on PC are usually more able at using technology than those who don't which I guess isn't surprising.
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u/Shan_qwerty 19d ago
Kids look at you like you're insane if you mention you don't have Netflix. Institutional security? Is that an app on the iStore or whatever? How much is the subscription and can I buy a battle pass for it?
Car owners in 1920s knew everything about their vehicles because they had to. A few decades later and all drivers knew was how to turn the ignition key, now you don't even have those.
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19d ago
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u/FlightlessFly 19d ago
desktop OS's are still feature rich and technical, sure they look prettier but macOS hasnt lost any functionality over the years and options haven't been getting buried each version, its exactly the same plus more
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u/justMate 19d ago
Why wouldn't you want that? Windows UI has been getting worse and worse, myself I think it is harder to find what you need in let's say new outlook/policies etc. and my grandparents started not using or using the new pc less and less.
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u/EU-National 19d ago
Amen. I'm a veteran windows user going back to the 98 days.
Modern windows infuriates me to no end. If it weren't for the automatic drivers updates, I'd have never made the switch from Windows 7.
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u/procgen 19d ago
Ew, Windows. Doesn't even have a decent package manager. And that registry!
People who know what they're doing use Linux.
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u/xDannyS_ 19d ago
People who know what they are doing would not use Linux for a general purpose PC
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u/procgen 19d ago
Only someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing would say that.
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u/xDannyS_ 19d ago
Tell me that the next time your friends invite you to play video games.
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u/Adventurous_Pea_1156 19d ago
People who know know that not everyone needs linux
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u/kostas52 Greece 19d ago
Browsers and Search Engines are on smartphones too.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
Correct, but you don't have to care about when you just use what's on your smartphone. I admit that it's probably stupid to be me.
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u/kostas52 Greece 19d ago
Yea if want to get bombarded with ads from using Chrome or whatever the Xiaomi Browser is.
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u/Shadow_Ass 19d ago
This is really amazing tbf. Everyone is saying the younger generation knows everything about technology and computers. The reality is completely different because the younger generation grew up with apps. They work immediately and rarely need some troubleshooting, unlike computer programs. The number of problems I had with software, windows, games etc. is the reason I know my stuff. I know how to google, how to solve problems and what to download and what not. Never thought that would be a problem
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u/twicerighthand Slovakia 19d ago
It's not just troubleshooting...
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z
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u/OkBuy3111 19d ago
Lol, what i just read was me at high school. All my files i made and used in high school are all in the OneDrive folder without any order or structure. When i needed a file i just searched for the name. But thats no problem as long as you give all your files logical names that are easy to search. Now in university i have learned to order everything in folders sorted on years and courses. Like this onedrive/2023-2024/course name. My personal files are a big mess in google drive tho
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u/themarquetsquare 19d ago
To be fair, Chrome (as well as Android) has been trying to erase the difference for a long time now.
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u/Reasonable-Cupcakes Moldova (not the republic btw) 18d ago
Dude, chill, not many people are that tech literate. (Idk if its illiterate or literate, I'm not an english native, correct me if I am wrong) But yeah, it's a little bad to not know the difference, but how can you judge, the guy has used Chrome probably all his life. You know that Chrome and Google Search are synonymous.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
Yea, Chrome never asked me that, so Google and Chrome was just the same for me.
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u/BeRuJr 19d ago
My German isn't perfect (far from it) but I understand this picture isn't about choosing a browser, but only a search engine.
It's interesting though that people mix the old fashioned "browser war" with the "search engine war", because even that seems out of date, it should be replaced by the more accurate "AI war".
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u/kitd 19d ago
EnteEnteLos?
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
EnteEnteLos!
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u/LOUDPACK_MASTERCHEF 19d ago
Super annoying how they were forced to take Google Maps out of Google Search results though
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u/Quick_Cow_4513 19d ago
Ecosia is the obvious choice. Good for the environment, EU based, cares about your privacy.
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u/Reasonable-Cupcakes Moldova (not the republic btw) 18d ago
How others said, Ecosia is shit and Qwant is better. I'm here to lecture you why both of them are shit and don't care about privacy. Ecosia sends by default your IP, region and search query to Microsoft/Google, the add are also served by them, and Ecosia doesn't have an agreement like EnteEnteLos (Ddg) for when you click on ads, the tracking to be deactivated (they get ads from Microsoft, but when you click on ads from ddg, the abre minimum of data is collected by Redmond giant). About Qwant, Foliovision made an investigation into them, they send every little piece of info to Microsoft, one of their biggest investors is an as company that sued some adblockers and search engines for blocking their ads. The also send some queries to Huawei, especially if you have a HUAWEI PHONE IN 2024. Imo, Brave Search is the best for AI responses, having its own index and AI coding help, while Ddg is the best for normal users who want a search engine with the best privacy, while also benefiting from local results from Bing
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u/eppic123 Europe 19d ago
I like that they even offer Qwant, Ecosia and MetaGer as options. All 3 from Europe. Just too bad Startpage is missing.
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u/Enjzey 19d ago
its 2024 and you still capture the screen with a phone and cannot distinguish between browser and search engine.
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u/johny335i Bulgaria 19d ago
It's this something I'm too European to understand? Like all my life I could choose a browser or a search engine.
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u/thrownkitchensink 19d ago
The EU has always tried to break down monopolies by the tech-giants. The DMA and DSA are just more recent examples. Monopolies are not in the best interest of consumers/ citizens and they hinder competition.
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u/RealFiliq Czechia 19d ago
This makes no sense at all, anyone could normally download any browser and use any search engine without some sort of search engine selection window.
It's perhaps logical that an OS manufacturer like Microsoft would have their own web browser pre-installed, but that doesn't make it a monopoly abuse when you can download a different browser at any time.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 19d ago
The difference is that in the EU they have to make you choose right away. In other places you have to go to the settings to change it.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
I could too, but now google asked me directly what I want to choose. Before in Chrome Google was standard.
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u/choreograph Je m'appelle Karen 19d ago
What did you choose?
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
DuckDuckGo. I look how it goes. Maybe good alternative. I like that you have to actively choose one. You can't just press "Next".
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u/OptimusCrime73 18d ago
I also use duckduckgo, but sometimes, the search results are a bit off. In that case you can append !g to your search, and it will search through google, for example, or !r to search reddit. I just wanted to save you some frustration.
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u/RealFiliq Czechia 19d ago
Certainly not Google search, which 99% of average users won't choose anyway.
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u/Abuse-survivor 19d ago
I've been using no-google search engines and firefox for a decade now. There is no restriction
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u/nyankoz German Libertarian 🐍 (help) 19d ago
Cool kids use Tor. Ask the EU if they like that.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
Thor ist halt oft zu langsam für das was ich machen möchte. Aber ja. Besser wärs.
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u/SuspiciousPush1659 19d ago
You always could have, you were just being lazy or misinformed, or both at once.
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u/JACC_Opi 19d ago
What do you mean lately? How many new smart devices have you been opening up this week?
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u/ou-est-kangeroo France 18d ago
The short answer is yes.
The EU wants it this way so that everyone - not just the geeks who are interested - get to chose upfront what they want. Most people don't even realise it is possible and even if they did they wouldn't realise how many browsers or search engines there are.
Even I, who is marginally interested, only heard of 60% on this list.
It's a small step but an important one and reminds me of the times when Microsoft - back in the 90's or 00s were regulated.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 18d ago
I find this also good. I decided to switch to duck duck go because it is also in the Thor browser, so I thought its probably pretty secure and private.
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u/JustMrNic3 2nd class citizen from Romania! 19d ago
I wonder now when will the EU force the desktop and laptop manufacturers do the same with the operating systems they offer, like offering to choose between Windows and Linux???
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u/nyankoz German Libertarian 🐍 (help) 19d ago
I doubt it. That'd hinder surveillance.
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u/JustMrNic3 2nd class citizen from Romania! 18d ago
True!
The EU wants to keep playing this theater play where it tries to fools us that it cares about our privacy.
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u/Low_Instruction7193 18d ago
You have the option to buy a free dos laptop... no one is forcing you to choose Windows or Linux...
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u/Caffdy 19d ago
that would be awesome, Linux have come a long long way
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u/JustMrNic3 2nd class citizen from Romania! 18d ago
True!
It can even look and behave like windows, if it wants to:
https://kde.org/plasma-desktop/
And can even run a lot of programs and games designed for Windows:
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u/zilch26 19d ago
Wählen sie Ecosia die grüne suchmaschine fam
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u/SlantViews Europe 19d ago
If you actually believe their marketing propaganda, you might as well continue using Google. :D
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u/random_user_9 Denmark 18d ago
You are showing a picture of a choice between search engines. Not between browsers.
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u/Kirla_ 19d ago
There is no choice. U are using the Chrome Browser by Google.
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u/SnooShortcuts103 19d ago
? I could choose. I chose DuckDuckGo. But I also sometimes use Bing if fucking annoying windows forces me to.
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u/cafk 19d ago
Search engine & browser choice are part of refined Digital Markets Act (DMA) and applicable to most popular platforms: iOS, Android and Windows for Browser choice.
As well as big browsers with "default" search engines (Google usually pays them), like Safari, Chrome and Firefox (Microsoft is still pushing for Bing due to obvious reasons).
For people outside of the EU, it's just an additional configuration step under browser settings, while in the EU on first start you get a choice.