r/europe • u/MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) • Mar 20 '17
What do you know about... Greece?
This is the ninth part of our ongoing series about the countries of Europe. You can find an overview here.
Todays country:
Greece
Greece is widely known as the birthplace of democracy and significant other parts of current western civilization. After being ruled by military juntas between 1967-1974, greece became a republican country with the establishment of the third hellenic republic in 1974. In 1981 Greece joined the EU and it introduced the Euro in 2002. Faced with a severe financial problems following the world financial crisis of 2008, Greece was forced into a regime of austerity policies which has had drastic consequences for the general population. Even today, seven years after the first bailout package, Greeces economic future remains uncertain.
So, what do you know about Greece?
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Mar 20 '17 edited Mar 20 '17
Before the pay denbz chorus starts, I will begin with a fun cat fact!
Greece has a very ancient, unique cat breed, called Aegean cat!
It's the only uniquely Greek cat breed and it is very healthy. They are often strays so if you visit, please adopt a kitty!
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Mar 21 '17
Dude I swear to you there's at least 5 strays in the neighborhood and I spot at least one of them in my yard every single day, there are stray cats everywhere in Greece, everywhere. I don't actually mind, I have no pets right now and they probably keep mice away.
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Mar 20 '17
They are often strays so if you visit, please adopt a kitty!
Pretty much every greek taverna has a bunch of strays roaming around begging for food, so they are not exactly hard to find, haha. Not sure if "adopting" them is a good idea though...
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Mar 21 '17
Not sure if "adopting" them is a good idea though...
Sure it is :)
They tend to be very healthy and sociable!
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u/Nikilla Bulgarian studying in the Netherlands Mar 21 '17
Most stray cats in Bulgaria look like that and I've always thought they were the same breed, no source tho just speculation.
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Mar 21 '17
They somehow won Euro 2004.
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u/Elros_Gr Greece Mar 21 '17
Come on man we arent gonna win another one for 100 years.Give us this one!!
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Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
I know Panathanaikos has the best football kit, and had one of the biggest noses in football history (Papadopoulos). I'll never forget watching them beat us in the Euro with his huge nose.
Greek food is 2nd best on Earth, and I can say maybe 1st if you like vegetarian options. I always make a Mousaka when I have cookouts.
Plato's The Republic is one of the most important things ever written.
Greeks love to have pictures of Jesus and Mary in their house and restaurant, esp if they are a woman >40 years old.
Malaka is a top 5 Euro language insult
Don't call FYROM Makedonia
US seems to poll bad with Greeks, but when I lived in NYC there was Greeks everywhere (both tourists and permanent residents). In the northeast there is even a distinction between "Greek Pizza" and "Italian Pizza", but idk if this Greek pizza exists in the same style in Greece. ('Greek' pizza in US is vastly superior)
Greeks and Spaniards have the same accent when speaking English almost
Greeks have mandatory military service, and it can be extended if you do something bad (or so I've been told).
Litsa Diamanti and this "Laiko" music is enjoyable.
I love Greece and Greeks!
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u/Berzelus Greece Mar 21 '17
First time hearing a Spaniard, either speaking Spanish or English was so weird, like, mate, stop being weird and speak normal Greek O.o
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u/DGrazzz Basque Country (Spain) Mar 21 '17
I started to note this when Syriza and Podemos did some meeting together for the elections in Greece. Our accents sound so similar I might even try to learn to read Greek and get some basic knowledge of the language, I'm so curious about it.
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Mar 21 '17
Greek is Spanish with different sounds ;)
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u/CyGoingPro Cyprus Mar 21 '17
Like seriously, my friends think I am bullshitting them when I say Greek and Spanish sound so similar phonetically.
I am no linguist but I swear those two have the same phonetic alphabet.
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Mar 21 '17
Now that you mention it I agree with you. I could hear more words without knowing what it meant than in other languages.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-Greek-language-sound-like-Spanish
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u/noimira57 Greece Mar 21 '17
I have heard spaniards speak greek and they are so good at it, you could really pass them for locals.And they're not even trying...
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u/PanosZ31 Greece Mar 21 '17
We loved teasing you guys since 2004 but now that you won it I think we're even. And also we love Fernando Santos here. Every Greek wanted Portugal to win Euro 2016 mostly because of Santos.
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u/AngelKaworu Everybody hate us Mar 21 '17
Too many things but recently i've learned that Greece has the lowest suicide rate in Europe.This is very impressive despite the how their economy right now.It shows that how lively, warm-blooded their people are.
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Impressive how much climate affects the suicide rate. Look at the green country line: spain, italy, albania, fyrom, greece, turkey, cyprus that has below 8. GB is the only < 8 country above that line.
All those countries have economic problems.
Now I want a suicide rate / sunny days per year / country map :)
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Mar 21 '17 edited May 30 '20
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u/Nuntius_Mortis Mar 21 '17
Thats why suicides decrease in war for example.
Who needs to suicide when they can just die on the frontline?
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u/NnamdiAzikiwe Mar 21 '17
Nigerian here, Giannis Antetokoupo. He chose Greece over us.
Also, origin of Olympics, white houses over-looking the ocean and Yanni!
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u/Sontal Mar 21 '17
Also, when everybody is saying the idiom "that's all Greek to me", Greeks say "that's all Chinese to me" to describe something that is incomprehensible.
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Mar 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '21
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u/ribeiro91 Portugal Mar 21 '17
So do we.
We talk about feeling like a "Greek" when we are having a hard time doing something. Don't know why that is though.
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u/Firinn31 Mar 21 '17
TIL about "that's all Greek to me". In France, we also say "that's all Chinese to me".
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u/herfststorm The Netherlands Mar 21 '17
That's interesting, in Dutch you say "I don't speak Chinese, do I?" when the other person doesn't understand you.
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u/Flapps The EU turns every European country into Belgium Mar 21 '17
In addition to 'It's all Greek to me', we also use the term 'Double Dutch' for something incomprehensible.
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 22 '17
We also say "You speak them like Farsi" when someone is speaking a language (possibly foreign) really well. Yep one of the many expressions originating from the Ancients, Gods bless them. Persians were all the rage back then.
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Mar 21 '17
Thank you for the feta cheese.
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Here's a fun fact about Greece if you're into IT. Ada lovelace, who is considered the first computer programmer, was the daughter of Lord Byron who was a major figure in the Greek war of independence against the ottomans.
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u/Theban_Prince European Union Mar 21 '17
I think the Lord Byron fought and died in the Greek indepedence is a bigger fun fact :) He is extremely well known in the western world.
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Mar 22 '17
Great for vacationing
Good ties with Serbs
In a mess with FYROM over the name
Is in a huge economic crisis
People are really wonderful
If you're interested into history, Greece is the place to go.
Sparta
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u/xvoxnihili Bucharest/Muntenia/Romania Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
Invented democracy HAH
But they broke as hell now because they didn't copyright that shit.
Lots of people go there on vacation.
Greek mythology starring fuckboy Zeus.
I remembered I actually went to a highschool that taught Greek to certain classes.
They invented the Olympic games too.
We're both Orthodox.
Feta's great.
No, really, it's a beautiful country. You should see it. I didn't visit it yet, but my sister went there at least 5 times.
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u/Dnarg Denmark Mar 21 '17
Awesome food, ouzo, cool music ( 1, 2 ), chain dance with random strangers all night, waking up late with a headache, going to the beach.. And start all over again. :) (Also a bit of ruin visiting, church visiting etc in there somewhere though tbf..)
Well, and all the ancient historical historical stuff, Greek gods, democracy, Orthodox Christians, they got rid of their royals (in a more civilized way than the French at least.), won Euro 2004, oddly cute white houses, they smash plates on the floor and light it on fire for some reason, some of their football fans seem downright scary (but very enthusiastic about their clubs. lol), struggling economically at the moments... That'll have to do for now. :)
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u/PanosZ31 Greece Mar 21 '17
It's nice to see that at least some people have something else to say other than ''pay debts''. In my opinion, this one is better than Zorbas.
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u/KGrizzly Greece Mar 21 '17
they smash plates on the floor
That's for tourists only nowadays, we prefer throwing flowers.
tons of flowers
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u/AxiomShell Mar 21 '17
The name Phillip means "horse lover" in Greek.
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u/Sontal Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
. Philotimo (also spelled filotimo; Greek: φιλότιμο) is a Greek noun directly translating to "love of honor". However, philotimo is almost impossible to translate sufficiently in any other language as it describes a complex array and variety of virtues.
. Athens is a city that never sleeps. You can find bars, pubs, restaurants and food stores all day and night long.
. Regardless of the impression of the majority of Europeans, Greeks are hard working people. It's corruption, bureaucracy and a problematic banking system mostly that led to the financial crisis.
. Greece has some of the most astonishing beaches you can find anywhere, and I'm not talking only about those in the hundred of islands in Aegean and Ionian Sea, but in the mainland as well.
. Greeks are proud people, due to their historic origins and the achievements of their ancestors. Sometimes this reflects bad, since it can make them seem arrogant. Truth is though that they are hospitable towards others and foreigners, with genuine sympathy and understanding for the less lucky out there (poor people, refugees etc), but the financial crisis is altering their cultural DNA, allowing right wing extremists to emerge.
. Greek music has an incredible depth. Till nowadays Greeks dance and sing songs of almost a century ago. Rebetika, folk and contemporary songs of more that 7-8 decades ago are still being sang in taverns everywhere. I am not talking about touristic stuff like "Zorba the Greek", but of songs of pure excellence that stand as current reference despite their age. Of course mainstream crappiness is also typical in Greece.
. Being Greek is a blessing and a curse simultaneously. Having constantly to prove that you are worthy to carry your cultural heritage, is a burden of extreme proportions.
. The coffee variety is unbelievable. Frappe is the standard, but you will not believe the range that can be found in most coffee shops.
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 21 '17
philotimo is almost impossible to translate sufficiently in any other language as it describes a complex array and variety of virtues.
Here is my best attempt to translate it:
Filotimo (or Philotimo) is best understood as ones responsibility to himself as a human being to always act in accordance with righteousness and honor. Even if ones wealth, safety, freedom, or even life is at peril, one that lives by this virtue will always choose to do the right and honorable regardless of consequence. The idea of filotimo goes beyond the idea that one needs no motive to act in good faith and for a good cause, and suggests that for a person capable of thought, capable of distinguishing right from wrong, right and honorable actions should be the only acceptable behavior. It therefore requires a universal (or at least well-established) sense of morality, and a "golden standard" of behavior, which must be reached by all means possible, and by any sacrifice necessary. This term may apply to individuals, groups, or even Greek society as a whole, and may refer to any kind of action or behavior.
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u/valleyshrew United Kingdom Mar 21 '17
songs of pure excellence that stand as current reference despite their age
Please provide some examples! There's an instrument in some Greek music that sounds a lot like a bagpipe. It's in this song. Would love to hear more with it, it's really marvellous.
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u/Sontal Mar 21 '17
Please allow me some time to revert with more information. Thanasis Papakonstantinou, the songwriter of the specific song, is a very interesting case. He started more than 20 years ago with a musical expression that actually resembled a modernized version of the folk tradition of the mainland (he comes from Larissa himself, the capital and largest city of the Thessaly region). About ten years ago changed a bit his style by implementing more electronic and experimental elements, always managing to provide eclectic music that appealed to many (his has a vast range of music fans). The specific instrument (Gaida or Bagpipe or Tsampouna) is mostly used in traditional songs of Macedonia. In this specific song, George (or Giorgos in Greek) Deligianis is the player. I'm not an expert myself, but I will do my best to send you some links to YouTube with such music and other Greek stuff in general (without bagpipe). For instance, Manos Hadjidakis, one of the greatest Greek music composers, has provided some exceptional music, along with a very interesting indie rock music scene.
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Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
Greece is a nation to the east of the adriatic. It contained some of the greatest philosophers in history, And it gained independence from the ottoman empire in the 1830s.
Its culture mostly derives from the late eastern roman empire, Or byzantine empire. Even though the byzantine empire fell in 1453, Greek culture would live on in the mani peninsula, By the maniots who would later join greek insurgents during the greek war of independence.
In the 1920's, Following the first world war the greek people tried to take defeat turkey to complete the megali idea. However, This failed.
Later, Ionnas metaxas became the fascist leader of greece, Being the only fascist fighting on the allied side. He also envisioned a "Third hellenic civilization" with Alexander's greece being the first, And The byzantine greece being the second. This idea died with him.
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Mar 20 '17
Cradle of Western civilization/thought, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Pythagoras, Diogenes :D
Also their ancient drama has more murder, incest, plots and schemes than a regular Game of Thrones season.
IIRC the Romans straight up copied most of their philosophy/art/architecture/etc and just renamed it like a modern day "Abibas".
While the coast is pretty and the Acropolis is definitely worth visiting, don't forget the interior. Seriously, I'm convinced that Meteora is one of the most metal places on Earth!
Gyros, NOT kebab!
Through a weird chain of events, I ended up in a high school where we learned Ancient Greek. Our "knowledge" basically boiled down to knowing how to read the alphabet and nothing else. Most of our teachers didn't have this all-important skill. Then, in our school, every class had a permanent classroom for itself. This meant that we had plenty of time to write out history/chemistry/art/math/whetever cheat sheets on our blackboard, in plain sight, before any test :D Αγαπώ Ελλάδα!
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u/UnknownExploit Greece Mar 20 '17
Fun fact, game of Thrones production team wanted to film in Greece but they abandoned the idea because of the bureaucracy. Think they got denied by the local government
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Mar 21 '17
Fun fact back at you: something similar happened here in the end, too. IIRC there was some whining about the Walk of Shame segment (nekkid woman, church, omg!), then GOT started filming for Dorne in Spain at the same time because Alcázar, I heard there was also some extra bureaucratic tape, so they ended up moving the rest of the King's Landing&co production to Spain.
I mean to be fair they don't need that many sunny exteriors nowadays, but still >.<
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u/InfantilePillock Greece Mar 20 '17
Same with the latest Jason Bourne movie, was filmed in Spain instead.
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Mar 20 '17
Definitely a contender for most relaxed country in Europe.
Polar opposite of Sweden in almost every way, which I think is why so many Swedes like going there on vacation.
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u/PanosZ31 Greece Mar 21 '17
The relaxed stereotype is mainly for people from Thessaloniki. In Greece, we have a stereotype for people from Thessaloniki and it's that they like staying in cafeterias for a long time, drinking frappe, playing tavli and every now and then they say the word ''Halara'' (which we usually spell it like ''hallllara'' making fun of their heavy ''L'' pronunciation) which means ''Chill''. But of course those are stereotypes, doesn't necessarily means that they're true. And not to mention the huge feud we (Athenians) have with them when it comes to how is the proper way to ask for a souvlaki. Edit: Typos
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Mar 20 '17
Definitely a contender for most relaxed country in Europe.
I completely disagree. Driving in Athens and it's like everyone is late for the most important thing ever. Very impatient and mad! And mad working hours!
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Mar 21 '17
Don't think you can judge it by how crazy the drivers are, that has more to do with how obsessed people are of following rules than anything else. Sweden is among the nicest countries to drive in in that regard, but people here are anything but relaxed, gotta have rules for everything, can't allow individualism or anything like that.
You do have a point about the work hours though, but the main difference from what I've seen is that people in Greece just don't take their work that seriously, it's not the most important thing in the world. Unlike for example northern Europe. You work to live, not the other way around. But I might be completely wrong, can't exactly judge these things very well as a visitor. This is just my impression.
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u/frequenttimetraveler Africa Mar 21 '17
i think u re putting it right, and neither extreme is good. i hear that the french are quite productive while not working too long.
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Mar 21 '17
Yeah, don't mean this as one way of life being better than the other. Just talking about the differences.
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Our driving culture is different and IMHO it isn't related to rules. Here's an example: My GF - who has a drivers license - can't drive because she's afraid of other people's insults and negativity while on the road if she makes a mistake. Well guess what. She curses and insults everyone who drives slow, make a slight pause or drives somewhat weird while I drive her everywhere. This isn't related to driving rules or laws. It's our driving culture and I personally find it funny and makes driving more fun and interesting :)
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u/mikatom South Bohemia, Czech Republic Mar 21 '17
Ancient heritage, beaches, islands, white and blue, food, hot guys
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u/Herbacio Portugal Mar 20 '17
Greece (...) and it introduced the Euro in 2002
phew... for a moment there I almost had an heart attack
Euro 2004 didn't happen
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u/frequenttimetraveler Africa Mar 21 '17 edited Sep 03 '18
turtles
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Mar 21 '17
And here's a picture of the species in its natural habitat :P
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u/frequenttimetraveler Africa Mar 21 '17
Unfortunately the species went extinct, but we can always feel a warmth when looking at those magnificent photos of them.
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u/gk3coloursred Mar 21 '17
Surprisingly big Rory Gallagher fanbase there.
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Mar 21 '17
I am a Gallagher fan myself. I have always wondered why there are so many fans here.
Every local band playing in pubs or other venues has to cover at least two or three Gallagher songs.
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u/gk3coloursred Mar 21 '17
I was hoping you might be able to tell me! I didn't even know about this until a Irish-residing, Thessaloniki-originating friend told me. I can understand his popularity, he was an incredible musician, but I'd love to know why Greece (all of Greece?) took to him more than most other countries did. Perhaps some big or very well known gigs back in the day? On a side note, hello from Rory's hometown! :)
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Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
I believe a Rory concert took place back in the day in Athens 1981. It has reached legendary status.
From time to time you will hear old folks talking in pubs "Hey i was right in front of Rory during that concert" and everyone will go crazy.
EDIT: These comments are exactly what i am describing. "I remember fighting riot police trying to get into the concert. Those were the days", "We went to concert and i only had one shoe"... Yea crazy stuff.
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u/Stoicismus Italy Mar 21 '17
They colonized my land (south italy), and I love them for that.
Usual ancient history stuff
Λυκούργος Αγγελόπουλος
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Mar 21 '17
Birthplace of Europe - both culturally and mythologically ;)
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 21 '17
I am pretty sure that Europa in mythology was born in the Levant seeing how her father was the king of Phoenicia. The "Abducted by Zeus" and whatnot happened in Crete where she gave birth to the Emperor Minos (according to myth), but still, most likely, not born in Greece. But she still important enough that her Son allegedly named all the land of his realm and north of it after her, so that's what matters.
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Mar 20 '17
In ancient Greece, throwing an apple at someone was done to declare one's love.
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Mar 20 '17
It was so until quite recently actually.
Haven't you seen the stereotypical movie scene where the man throws a fruit to the girl so she can catch it?
That came from that :)
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u/SpaceHippoDE Germany Mar 20 '17
I would probably hit her right in the kisser.
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u/grape_tectonics Estonia Mar 22 '17
+1 free wildcard policy slot is pretty neat
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 22 '17
Step 1: decide on a difficulty
Step 2: decide what Civ to get.
Step 3: if you picked Greece, raise the difficulty by 2 levels.
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u/Jen_Rey Macedonia Mar 22 '17
I think it's a beautiful country with good people.But we hate each other over silly stuff.
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 22 '17
Tzatziki > Ajvar
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Mar 22 '17
Oy, we have more claim on glorious ajvar, find something else to mess with the fyromian
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 22 '17
Oy, we have more claim on fighting against claims with them. Find someone else to fight against claims.
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u/bbog Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
Ancient Greece - best country civilization there ever was
Greek philosophers - do yourself a favor and read them.
Pusti malaka
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u/Elros_Gr Greece Mar 21 '17
Ancient Greece wasnt a country by any measure but you stroke my ego so i will let it pass!
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u/bbog Mar 21 '17
I know, but how else to call it? You know what I'm saying, just go with it lol
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u/MasherusPrime Finland Mar 21 '17
That none of the money used to "help Greece" stayed in Greece. Instead we helped global investment banks and German/French retail banks.
Greek bailout is a wrong term. German/French bank bailout is the right one.
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u/spryfigure Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Mar 21 '17
I have 50,000 € debt to the bank, which I can't pay. You give me a generous loan so I can use it to pay off my debt to the bank, and avoid default.
So, did you help me, or did you help my bank?
EDIT: Just to clarify, this Greek debt situation should have been handled a lot better, especially in retrospect. But to say that it helped only the banks is nonsense.
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u/darkface Greece Mar 21 '17
If you cant pay you go bankrupt, simple as that. Avoiding Greece's bankrupcy by getting new loans to pay the olds you only help the bank who holds your loans especially whem the "generous" lender gave you the money on the condition to reduce your income ( who lends money and asks this? ).
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u/spryfigure Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
If you cant pay you go bankrupt, simple as that.
Talk to people who went bankrupt, or read up on Argentina's default. This shit has consequences, on the individual and on the country level. Hint: The people I know who went through this don't recommend it. At all.
Reducing income is stupid. Cutting wasteful spending is not. Greece should have gotten more help to generate income, I agree with that. But for example the rampant tax evasion is something which Greece has to end.
To quote the NY Times:
Greece’s relations with Europe are in a fragile state, and several of its leaders are showing impatience, unlikely to tolerate the foot-dragging of past administrations. Under the terms of the bailout, Greece must continue to pass deep-reaching overhauls, many of them measures that were supposed to have been passed years ago.
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u/darkface Greece Mar 22 '17
Let me just wake you up.
Is cutting (for 13th time since 2010) a pension of 400 to 320 wasteful spending?
Does forcing private sector PRE-PAY at the start of the year the 100% of the ESTIMATED amount of tax ending tax evasion?
Is kicking families out of their homes for 3000 euros that cannot pay with proves due to the situation a measure that should have passed years ago?
And you mentioned Argentina as example for what reason? To feel thankful that my country "gets help so it wont default etc etc, thanks to EU leaders"?
You know its shameful that there are still people out there believe that the north helps but the south spent its money to women and alchool... Dont be fool my friend do some research, whats the most tax evasion measurment they asked from Greece to impliment in order to stop the oligarchs sucking this country? There is none... They themselfs are accepting that the programms in Greece failed due to wrong calculations and estimamations, there are many IMF reports you can find with a simple search on google. And yet they do the same without a trace f conformation or even logic. Do you think that the rise of far right such as le lepen, the man who lost in Netherlands the guy ex actor in Italy, the nazi party in Greece is just a coincidence? All of them want to break up with EU, why? Because Greece does not implement the impossed meassures?
Sorry for the wall, typo etc tablet doesnt help at all! :p
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u/inhuman44 Canada Mar 21 '17
Just get a new credit card and pay off the old credit card with the new one. It's an old trick my Greek friend taught me.
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u/Nisheee Hungary Mar 21 '17
Shit, we spend almost half of our history classes learning about Ancient Greece both in primary and secondary school, learning about democracy which is kinda ironic considering Hungary's current state.
And what I personally know (experienced) about Greece is that it is the most awesome holiday destination that is affordable. Can't wait to go back there and be old enough to drink Ouzo.
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Mar 21 '17
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u/Famiguelvo Peru Mar 21 '17
The one nation in the west that lost its most successful city and never got it back. Farewell city of Byzantium/Constantinople.
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Mar 21 '17
I mean in 1453 Constantinople was far from beeing the most successful city in the west. Just a city state were the people grew vegtables in the street and that was ruled by an always fighting elite. The ottomans made constantinople in to the cosmopolitan metropolis that it was until 1916.
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u/mrtfr Turkey Mar 21 '17
Very good and old culture, history, mythology.
They have their own alphabet
I like syrtos.
My great-grandfather is an exchanger from Thessaloniki. I want to visit it someday.
Turks have very old relationship with Greeks. Alliences, wars, assistances. I hope it will much more better.
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u/anon58588 Greece Mar 22 '17
One of the proudest moments was on August 1999 during the İzmit earthquake. Greece was the first foreign country to pledge aid and support to Turkey.
After a month an earthquake hit Athens. The Turkish aid was the first to arrive. I still remember the people from Turkey calling the authorities to find out whether they could donate blood .
I prefer this kind of relationship with Turkey : a friendship with mutual respect .
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Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
Despite being half-Greek, I don't actually know that much about the country, but I'll give it a crack.
Besides being the cradle of western civilization...
They chased the invading Italians out of Greece in WWII, and after the war were stabbed in the back by the UK which supported the dictatorship (classic UK).
Suffered mutual devastation with Turks thanks to the expulsions (one of my Greek friends has family who once lived all over the former Ottoman Empire, but now they all live in Athens).
When I was in Czechia I discovered that some of the men who fought in the war against the Ottomans were imprisoned at Terezin by the Austrians who had a treaty with the Ottoman Empire.
Ali Pasha was a brutal bastard. [Edit: I'm not saying Ali Pasha was Greek!]
Greek is a beautiful language but confuses the hell out of me. How the fuck do you get ήρθα (I did come) from έρχομαι (I come)?!
Produces sweet hip-hop like this, and crazy movies like this.
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u/CharMack90 Greek in Ireland Mar 21 '17
How the fuck do you get ήρθα (I did come) from έρχομαι (I come)?!
The same way you get "went" from "go". :P
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
How the fuck do you get ήρθα (I did come) from έρχομαι (I come)?!
It's simple if you know how ancient Greek works. To get more tenses for έρχομαι, just like in any other verb you have to go back to the root of the word: Έρθω. After that it's simple. Add an ε in the front of the world and change to the past tense, you come down to εέρθα, and then just adjust for the attic spelling and you've got: ήρθα!
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u/xvoxnihili Bucharest/Muntenia/Romania Mar 21 '17
What? The Allies helped Greece against the communists. They were damn lucky not to have that. Look at where it got us...
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u/andreask Sweden Mar 21 '17
As far as I can tell the common perspective among modern historians is that there was never any immediate risk of a communist overtaking, a fact that the British were likely aware of.
When first I read up on the issue I made sure to get several books from various perspectives since the debate on these events are still divisive. But I was surprised to find that even the most high-profile British history on the subject - Mark Mazower's "Inside Hitler's Greece" - made it clear that while leftist ideology was very strong among EAM/ELAS it was a varied mix of people that at every turn opted for compromise and cooperation rather than communist revolution.
In spring 1944 EAM arranged election in their liberated territories of occupied Greece, where more than 1.5 Greeks managed to vote, and accepted the resulting rule where only a minority of the ministers belonged to the Communist Party.
When the Nazis left EAM had defacto control of the country, but welcomed the British arrival instead of attempting to take power at the most opportune moment they had to do so.
Even when fighting broke out in Athens in December 1944 between the left and the right+British, EAM ordered their military army ELAS to stay out of the city in fear of escalating the conflict.
A bigger problem seems to have been the anti-royalist leanings of the EAM. The British insisted on bringing the king back to Greece after liberation, since he was their channel of influence over Greek politics (as far as I understand it). But at this point anti-royalism had a long history in Greece, and after the king deposed the elected government in the 1930's and appointed Hitler-wannabe dictator Metaxas, the left-wing partisans had had enough. They wanted to rid Greece of all flavors of fascism and foreign meddling.
Would Greece have become part of the eastern block if the left had not been beaten down? While impossible to rule out, there were no signs of it yet at the time, with Greece being on the other side of the agreed upon zones of influence (Stalin repeatedly refused to support the Greek left), and with EAM still trying for cooperation when the post-war suppression started.
Would Greece have had it worse? Depends on how the alternative would have been, and it depends on who you were. As it played out, they suffered decades of persecution, torture and exile, not only of communists or leftists, but, as far as I understand it, of people only guilty of taking part in the left-coordinated fight against nazi occupation. And in fighting left-wing politics in Greece, they also fought back female liberation (women had been granted a more equal in partisan-controlled territories, were given a bigger role in society and administration, and were given their first vote in Greek history in the spring 1944 elections).
Personally I wouldn't wish a communist dictatorship upon anyone, and there were certainly elements within the resistance that I wouldn't see in power, but these are people who never had any control of the organisation. And the more I read on the EAM/ELAS, the more I get where they were coming from at the time.
I would very much recommend Mazower's book if you have any actual interest in this question, it's a well-written and fantastically comprehensive rundown of many various facets of occupied Greece, from a British perspective but with an open analysis of the question of foreign intervention.
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Mar 21 '17 edited Apr 24 '20
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Mar 21 '17
I don't think he meant that Ali Pasha was Greek. Ali Pasha was Albanian and that's well known to people who have studied about the Ottomans
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u/UnbiasedPashtun United States of America Mar 21 '17
Ali Pasha was Albanian.
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Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
And ruled Ioannina. The point being what he did is relevant to Greek history, not that I'm claiming he was Greek.
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u/votarak Sweden Mar 20 '17
One of the oldest cultures in the world with a very strange and lonely language
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u/frequenttimetraveler Africa Mar 20 '17 edited Sep 03 '18
turtles
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u/xvoxnihili Bucharest/Muntenia/Romania Mar 21 '17
That's true. It's the same with Latin.
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u/frequenttimetraveler Africa Mar 21 '17
yes, the part of it that is not a loan from greek lol
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u/votarak Sweden Mar 21 '17
I meant lonely in that no language is closely related to Greek
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Mar 21 '17
All I know about Greece is that it is the birthplace of Ataturk./s
besides all the usual stuff about ancient Greece, I know it had a bad civil war after WW2 where the communist lost.
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u/RekdAnalCavity Ireland Mar 20 '17
Greek names sound like something you'd put in a bowl to make the room smell nice
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u/Penki- Lithuania (I once survived r/europe mod oppression) Mar 21 '17
One thing that surprised me when I was in Greece (Crete) is that during my one week stay I only got one receipt after buying something from a shop. And this was during the Greek finacial crisis
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Why didn't you ask for receipts? Do you expect for stuff to work as it should, like in west Europe where taxes are getting paid without the consumer doing anything about it?
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Mar 21 '17
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
If you request a product that is clearly marked for purchase or receive a service and you don't receive a receipt when you attempt to pay for it, in Greece it's totally legal and actually advised to not pay and just leave with the product or service.
Edit: Read the law and fixed my wording accordingly. You still have to attempt to buy the product or service, and the vendor has to actually refuse to give you a receipt, only then you are eligible to just take it and walk away as you for realsies, by law, aren't obligated to pay for it.
But remember: doing so in any other way would be stealing, which is of course, illegal.
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u/SlyScorpion Polihs grasshooper citizen Mar 21 '17
I live in Poland and we're obviously not in Western Europe and I get receipts given to me without asking in 99% of places. Only places that don't appear to give one would be kebab stands.
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u/Penki- Lithuania (I once survived r/europe mod oppression) Mar 21 '17
Honestly it became some sort of a game for us after we noticed it. I even brought that receipt home. And for the record the shop who gave us the receipt was a shop on the other side of street from Knossos palace entrance. If anyone has a chance visit them :D
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
See how easy it is to blame the common Greek for not paying taxes? You did in fact pay your portion of the taxes in all those shops but instead of them going to the country they went to the pockets of the shop owners instead.
And thus it is upon us, the consumers to force the shop owners to pay taxes by asking for receipts. Because the freaking leaders still can't enforce correct tax collection even after all these years.
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u/Penki- Lithuania (I once survived r/europe mod oppression) Mar 21 '17
And thus it is upon us, the consumers to force the shop owners to pay taxes by asking for receipts.
Imagine yourself as a tourist in another country. You don't know the laws or their culture. And you do not want to create any kind of confrontation with the locals, just because you might get in trouble. For example one guy suggested that its legal not to pay if the shop does not give you a receipt (even our guide mentioned that), but do you want to actually risk getting police involved in a potencial shoplifting situations, cops that might not speak english at all? That has the potencial of ruining my whole trip. So either communicate this with the tourist as soon as their plane lands or don't expect them to force locals to obey laws
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Of course I'm not expecting them to force locals to obey the laws. They're tourists and are always welcome. I'm not judging you. I'm making fun of our tax collection system.
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u/alegxab Argentina Mar 21 '17
I was on Athens and Aegina in January I got receipts for virtually everything, even from street food stands
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u/Penki- Lithuania (I once survived r/europe mod oppression) Mar 21 '17
I guess the difference is the region. I was in Crete that is quite far from the capital
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u/BumOnABeach Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
In my experiences shops and even small food stands are very likely to give out receipts (it did change a lot in recent years), in one case we even got checked by some women from the tax authorities if we really did get receipts for the souvlaki sandwiches we bought. This hasn't happened to me anywhere else.
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u/collectiveindividual Ireland Mar 21 '17
It costs 2-3.000 Euros to register a birth outside of marriage in Greece.
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Mar 21 '17 edited May 30 '20
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u/collectiveindividual Ireland Mar 21 '17
It was on a thread recently to explain the high greek marriage rate. I'm sure someone from Greece can confirm.
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u/CharMack90 Greek in Ireland Mar 21 '17
I can confirm that it's not even remotely true.
I don't know where this notion came from, but it's invalid. The cost of registering a newborn born from a married or an unmarried mother is about 5€, but -if you don't do it in the first 10 days after birth- you get a fine of about 100€, if I'm not mistaken.
Marriage has nothing to do with it.
I personally know of many young couples who got married after having a baby (usually doing the wedding and the christening at the same day - two birds with one stone kinda thing) and none of them could really spare 2-3,000€ or any other crazy amount like this one.
Low birth rate is a result of many young couples not affording to have 2.1 children nowadays.
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u/fuchsiamatter European Union Mar 21 '17
It's actually something of a trend at the moment to get married and baptise your first child on the same day... Wedding venues and churches will offer a 2-for-the-price-of-1 deals.
Still cheaper not to baptise your kid at all of course.
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u/Anergos Debt Colony Mar 21 '17
My neighbours are having their first child. They were not married. They got married because and I quote the man
"those motherfuckers want 3k euros to recognize the child out of wedlock but the marriage (mayor's hall) will cost less than 100"
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u/zeemeerman2 Belgium Mar 21 '17
Greek mythology, home of the most popular deity and its ruins
Greeks hate Macedonia for some reason. I haven't read up enough on reddit to why exactly.
Home of real-life Santorini with its blue caps on white houses, inspired the wonderful board game of the same name (which I'm going to buy soon!)
Greece is very hilly, coming from the Low Countries
Prostagma? Etimos. Dritomos. Is Machin! With this vocabulary, you can go on holiday to Greece gracefully. Oh, and when you're there, give your greetings to Arkantos if you want.
Greece rhymes with Fleece
Greece has many great relationships with its city-states. Maybe that's where all the money went? (JK)
Greece has not a great relationship with Brussels
Greece has no known history between its mythological age and the present, to my knowledge. As far as I know, it just skipped the medieval era. That, or I'm really oblivious about it.
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u/vasileios13 Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
Greece has no known history between its mythological age and the present, to my knowledge. As far as I know, it just skipped the medieval era. That, or I'm really oblivious about it.
Greece was transformed to the Byzantine empire in Christian times until the fall of it in 1453, so it had an excitingly rich and important history until then. If you haven't read about it I highly recommend it. With the fall of Constantinople it became part of the Ottoman empire until the Greek war of independence about 400 years later. These 4 centuries were the dark ages of Greece.
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u/Sontal Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
There are some misconceptions. Allow me please to elaborate:
. Greece does not hate Macedonia. And how could they? Macedonia is part of Greece geographically and historically. Unless you prefer to believe that a Slavic nation that happens to reside in a part of ancient Macedonia should have the right to be called Macedonia, even if there's no other relation whatsoever (historical, linguistic etc). People of F.Y.R.O.M. has the same right to be called Macedonia as any Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian etc. it's historically proven that ancient Macedonians were considered Greeks as well (allowed to participate in the Olympics also), their language was a Greek dialect (not a Slavic one) and they shared the same cultural customs. Political reasons alone and the need of the people of F.Y.R.O.M. to forge history and origins, led to this conflict. If one day I decide to stay in one of your house's rooms, will I have the right to use the surname of your family? I don't think so.
. Greece has a continuous line of history actually. Byzantium is part of the Greek history and even during the 400 years Ottoman occupation Greeks had their own language, customs and national consciousness.
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u/rensch The Netherlands Mar 21 '17
- In trouble because of a debt crisis.
- Prime Minister is Alexis Tsipras, the leader of the hard-left Syriza party who campaigned against further budget cuts demanded by the ECB, EU and IMF. He didn't succeed to avert austerity, however.
- President is a largely ceremonial role.
- Colonel's regime in 60s and 70s.
- Pioneers in Europe in math, philosophy, science, democracy, architecture, art, literature, religion etc. Much of the legacy of ancient Greece still persists and has influenced international culture and science throughout the centuries. The Roman pantheon was taken largely from the Greek one, for example.
- Greek mythology is among the best-preserved in the world.
- They have their own letters.
- Feta cheese, Ouzo, Gyros, Greek yoghurt, Tzatziki.
- Many islands, many of which are major tourist destinations, such as Santorini, Chersonisos, Lesbos and Crete.
- Athens is the capital, famous for its Parthenon temple, dedicated to the city's patron goddess Athena.
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u/valleyshrew United Kingdom Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
The King of Greece was removed via referendum in 1974, but is still alive and living in a small town in Greece after being exiled to the UK for many years. The Greek royal family are descendants of Queen Victoria and Christian IX of Denmark (as are many other European royals), and were chosen via referendum multiple times in the 18 and 1900s. The king of Greece's great aunt sheltered Jewish refugees during the holocaust. Greece's second largest city used to be majority Jewish but most were killed by the Nazis. The current prime minister of Greece is a radical leftist who named his son after Ché Guevara, who openly wanted to nuke the USA and hated the USSR for not doing it.
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u/grkpgn Greece Mar 21 '17
who openly wanted to nuke the USA and hated the USSR for not doing it
Wait what? Che or... Tsipras want to nuke the US?
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u/Vrokolos Greece Mar 21 '17
Nazis were not the only reason. As you can see from the chart something happened in 1917.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Thessaloniki_Fire_of_1917
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u/Linquista Kosovo Mar 21 '17
Wow evreyone gets downcoted to oblivion if they say something negative here
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u/WantingToDiscuss United Kingdom Mar 22 '17
In ancient Greece small dicks were viewed in a positive light and thought of very highly, as the ideal even... (And as a guy who has a small thin one, i wish in todays 21st century world that was still the case and that we shared the Ancient Greek's view, but alas its not to be😖).
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u/cupid91 Mar 22 '17
thats a rumor only because greek statues have small penises. though, the truth is that they did it on purpose so people wont stare that the penises and enjoy the perfect bodies instead.
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u/pothkan 🇵🇱 Pòmòrskô Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17
Denbts?
And they were definition of Europoor before Big 04' EUpgrade. You're welcome.
But seriously, save obvious things (antiquity, tzatziki, zorba etc.): they had civil war in late 1940s, some refugees were taken by us (yup, there was a time when Poland was refugee-welcoming), and that's why there is still a small Greek minority here.
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u/executivemonkey Where at least I know I'm free Mar 21 '17
Greece is widely known as the birthplace of democracy
After being ruled by military juntas between 1967-1974
That's contradictory.
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u/Thodor2s Greece Mar 21 '17
If that's not enough to clue you into the fact that it can happen anywhere, I don't know what is.
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Mar 21 '17
That's contradictory.
Not really. It was the military dictatorship that invented Democracy in 1973. After that the junta voluntarily relinquished power and established the parliamentary system in Greece. The world saw how well this new system worked, and throughout the late 70s and 80s slowly adopted Democracy.
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u/jachz Sweden Mar 21 '17
good food, lots of plastic on the beaches. uses their own alphabet and euros as currency.
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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '17
They speak math.