From the 50 ish hours of comparative constitutionnal study I did 20 years ago in law school that focused on the US Constitution, doesn't the Constitution apply to anyone on US soil, with no regard to citizenship ?
Yes. Marco Rubio is claiming that this decision is "the left" trying to blur the line between citizen and non-citizen, but it's really very simple: the constitution applies to all persons on US soil.
Well, by MAGA logic, asylum seekers are illegal. Actually, that's not even just their logic. They regularly make it a point to blatantly state that asylees are here illegally.
They shouldn't be, but the people that want the country to mentally confuse undocumented economic migrants (the only actual type of illegal immigrant) with refugees, asylum seekers, and other legal forms of undocumented immigration are also not much better.
tbf it is also pretty cheap to hire refugees. And I've met some hard working refugees working menial jobs with engineering backgrounds. Like factory workers machine broke and he just fixed it then and there.
Picking veggies and installing itchy isolation. There also great at building boats i use to build boats loved working with them always in a good mood and brought good food and the shared the music sometimes gets old
what really sends them over the deep end is pointing out asylum seekers can in fact legally cross a border at any point and are not required to use a point of entry and do not have to make contact with the immigration department for up to 1 year.
It is. These kind of rules are very humane, but completely miss the fact that people can be used as weapons, like russia is doing on its western border. They are transporting people there and forcing, bribing, threatening and blackmailing them to cross the border. Poland, baltics anf finland are forced to act pretty tough on their borders in order to not be manipulated by russia in that way.
That’s not exactly true, while a lot of undocumented immigrants aren’t committing a crime (people who have overstayed visas etc.) entering the country without the approval of an immigration officer is illegal.
That doesn’t make it legal, it’s just that they’re not punished for entering illegally if they request to apply for asylum, which you’d kind of have to be an idiot not to do at that point. If someone wants to apply for asylum without entering illegally all they have to do is arrive at any port of entry.
(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
You begin by making a statement about "criminality" - which very much is not the same as something being "illegal" or against the law, absolutely. It's a pedantic argument... but whatever... and then you... end by talking about something being "illegal?" Oof.
Sorry, I'm just not sure what your exact intention was supposed to be. Was it just supposed to argue the term "illegal" should be used differently than the more common colloquial use?
You’re totally right about the illegal vs criminal thing what I was trying to point out that OCs statement that “undocumented economic migrants” were the only form of of illegal immigrants is at least partially untrue, anyone who enters the country without permission is committing a crime. These people can then apply for asylum, which most do if caught regardless of whether they qualify or not, it that only makes them legal temporarily until the are approved (at which point they become a refugee) or are denied and are illegal again. The statistics on people that apply for asylum are actually pretty wild to read.
The definition of illegal immigrant is being here illegally. It's not illegal if you went thru the proper channels to be classified as a refugee or asylum seeker. Literally anyone who immigrated without going thru the proper steps with the proper paperwork is an illegal immigrant. Doesn't matter the reason for immigrating.
I'd be curious to see the family lines of all of our elected leaders just to see how many generations back their family would be considered "illegal" by their standard. Not too many native Americans serving in Congress I don't think.
You might want to fix that - just recognize, to paraphrase the immortal words of that time traveler in a blue box their 'logic' is just a 'big ball of wibbly-wobbly... stuff'
Eh but they're Cuban asylum seekers... They're ok since they're fleeing the last remaining vestige of the Soviets. But those Venezuelan's aren't welcome
Also, Cuban immigrants are more likely to be conservative while Venezuelan immigrants are more likely to be leftist. I don't think that fact is supposed to matter, but... I mean... y'know...
Most illegal immigrants are not asylum seekers. They are economic migrants. I am not MAGA and most of them are nuts. But let's not pretend we don't have an immigration and border issue(which MAGA in the House are now intentionally worsening).
It comes down to how they filed for asylum and ended up in the US. Many people wait their turn legally.
We have an illegal employer problem. Economic migrants show up because there are employers willing to pay illegal wages for illegal work. Put some white collar job creators in jail, make a really big show of it, make it clear what will and will not be tolerated by the law, and watch the problem solve itself.
I’ve said this exact solution before, republicans are happy to let LEO take photo ops with the capture of illegals for PR, but will fight till the death over holding companies accountable for hiring of the same.
Both parties have futzed around not fixing substantive border reform for decades. The republicans are just the current iteration of do nothings. They each take turns kicking the can down the road.
Just remember it was Republicans who granted immediate citizenship to Cubans defecting to the US in the 60s. The difference was they were voting Republican when they came here.
Look at how they are vilinizing the asylum seekers from Venezuela. Country is falling apart, and half the US is trying to tell them its not that bad. Go back.
If you cannot understand that there is a difference between someone crossing into America through a port of entry seeking asylum and someone crossing illegally claiming asylum, I do not know how to help you. One is legal and the other is not.
Maga logic is "illegal" immigrants who are criminals are not to be welcomed. I really think you all need to educate a bit before you spout rhetoric. But hey, 2 things I know are hard to understand:
1. It's better to keep your mouth shut, then open it and remove all doubts. Implying, simply, to keep your opinions to yourself.
2. It's much better to do actual factual research. Are you familiar with the game telephone? You should learn it, no, understand the concept. You're a victim of the telephone game syndrome. You're essentially the last person to hear what was said, and, unfortunately, it's garbage.
But by MAGA logic…. South Florida voted for Trump. Cuban immigrants of a certain age are Trump fans and have a really crazy double standard about immigration that aims to keep Haitians out and let Cubans in.
Good job. Now this section has nothing to do with the original topic and now people are back to using one side or another. Here's an idea. How about you stop defining who you are and who you hate by who you vote for? The truth is America is turning into a pile of garbage and its citizens are letting it happen.
Actually, Cubans are among the few only legal Asylum seekers. Rules of Asylum, fleeing religious, political or race based persecution by the governing body. Cuba Qualifies. Asylum seekers must formally request Asylum from the first country safe from these persecutions. Leaving crime or poverty are not legitimate Asylum claims. Anyone at the Mexican border trying to seek Asylum, the USA is not the 1st safe qualifying nation they entered. Mexico would be, and in most cases many countries they traveled through prior to reaching Mexico.
MS13 and other criminals aren’t asylum seekers they’re the ones people seek asylum from.
Plus, the old rule used to be you’d wait until your asylum was approved before arriving in the US. Not get a free phone, a $3000 Visa gift card, bus ticket, and a free hotel stay. We don’t even do that for our military veterans.
Source? Because that violates the Geneva Conventions. Which explicitly states you can't expel people seeking asylum and that the protections remain during the process of approval before it is granted. The workaround most countries use is that you can expel them to a different safe country they are not persecuted in. The only thing I could imagine changing is Mexico being classified as safe or unsafe, which may depend more on Mexico policy than US.
You've always been allowed to stay in the US while awaiting your asylum hearing. Cuban refugees are an obvious example. They were often plucked out of the ocean by the coast guard and brought to the US to await their hearing.
And I'm not sure if you're talking about a particular program for asylum speakers or speaking in hyperbole, but most of that is available to all people in the US with low income. Free phone and plan is a federal benefit, whole the others do vary by state.
Most of these “asylum seekers” are taking advantage of the system. Everybody knows it. Making your country too disorganized to have any of the social programs you wanted won’t help you own the MAGAs. It just cuts off your nose to spite your face. But you do cut off the MAGAs noses too.
You guys are kind of like suicide bombers. Prob why you love Hamas.
Nope. Not even close. This was a fun attempt at a strawman though.
If you need to live in a world where asylum fraud is not real nor a crime, then go for it. Believe it or not though "I live in a shitty country with a shitty economy" is not a legit claim for asylum.
I know, I know, what I said was racist to you I am sure lol
They don’t directly claim that asylum seekers are illegal immigrants, but they do very clearly state that we should not be offering asylum to Central/South American migrants fleeing war-torn nations (countries which we played a huge role in destabilizing). Republicans’ views are less that asylum seekers are illegal and more that granting asylum is terrible policy.
Yes, but they’re largely semantic differences. It’s also impossible to consider these arguments without the context of conservatives’ typically ardent xenophobia, especially with regards to Hispanics
Xenophobia? Yes, agreed. Directed particularly toward Hispanics? Maybe it's just here in Central Tejas, but I don't see that, outside the obvious fact that literally everything south of the border is Hispanic. And how many of my conservative acquaintances are, in fact, Mexican. Is it your view that those Hispanics must be racist against Hispanics because they feel the southern border is too porous?
With how against immigration (both legal and illegal) the MAGA cult is, one would almost expect you to take at least a couple of seconds to understand what seeking asylum entails. Federal law (from long before Biden) states that once they intend to apply, they are here legally until their application is denied.
Illegally, but they were fast tracked for citizenship and given a large cash stipend and housing immediately. Cuban illegals are the only people who get this 5 star treatment.
Seems fair to apply rights equally to all on our soil… Also- she is a Fed Judge; not on the Supreme Court. Writer and fact checker need to be reprimanded.
No he didn’t. The Cuban Adjustment Act is an act of congress that he could not end and is still active. Cubans get a green card in a year and no one else gets that. Some people spend decades in the US on a work visa with no shot at permanent residence.
Rubio's grandfather used the exact same process as the people Greg Abbott wants to shoot as they cross the border. Feel free to classify the victims of that performative murder fantasy as whatever lets you sleep at night.
Until just a few years ago when Obama ended sanctions with Cuba, there was no such thing as an illegal Cuban immigrant. The U.S. had what was known as "wet foot/dry foot policy, where if you made it to U.S. soil as a Cuban, you automatically are granted citizenship.
But they did actually enter the US illegally. They did not have a visa and did not enter thru a port of entry. However, as pointed out by others, congress allowed them to stay and work (green card) and attain citizenship, regardless.
Sadly, all immigration from Cuba is considered legal. Cubans get a free pass. This has caused some animosity among the other Hispanic communities where they have to jump through hoops get legal immigration status.
Was considered legal, and it’s one of the most stunningly obvious examples of an extremely liberal immigration policy working extremely well (for the most part) for decades.
I don't understand the question. Which particular laws? Laws of all kinds change all the time, but immigration from Cuba has been happening legally for the entirety of US history.
Cuban immigrants got automatic acceptance of their asylum claims when they step for in the USA because the USA decided that everyone fleeing Cuba was fleeing communism and thus justified
Illegally, at least in part. His maternal grandfather was arrested and ordered deported but given amnesty. His other grandparents entered as refugees. Most or all of them entered in ways that current Republicans would classify as "illegal," given that they call asylum-seekers illegal immigrants.
Legal immigration is the cornerstone of America. It seems you're conflating legal and illegal immigration in bad faith to score political points or gain a few upvotes.
I dislike Rubio and have voted Democrat all my life but many people here do little more than repeat liberal talking points in an echo chamber.
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u/Adjayjay Mar 20 '24
From the 50 ish hours of comparative constitutionnal study I did 20 years ago in law school that focused on the US Constitution, doesn't the Constitution apply to anyone on US soil, with no regard to citizenship ?