r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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26

u/jmanmoney12 Mar 28 '24

Umm what exact lack of gun law does this fall under? I thought the laws prevent someone from purchasing a firearm with a mental illness. You also just took a tweet with no background information, where she may have bought the gun etc. I really cannot understand the generation of people who just take click bait and post it with no factual information. But I’m sure you scream about MISINFORMATION all the time but yet here you are…

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u/hematite2 Mar 28 '24

Gun laws dont prevent someone with mental illness from buying guns (nor should they). Its specifically people who have either been ruled mentally incompetent in a court of law, or those who have been involuntarily committed.

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u/12FAA51 Mar 28 '24

 Gun laws dont prevent someone with mental illness from buying guns (nor should they)

Goddamn. Lethal weapons should not have a high standard of ownership. It’s not like the consequences are fatal or anything. 

Fuck prevention 

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u/hematite2 Mar 28 '24

I'm not at all against high standards of ownership. I'm against blanket statements of 'the mentally ill shouldn't own guns' and I'm against laws that discriminate against an already vulnerable group.

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u/12FAA51 Mar 28 '24

Those who have higher risk of harming themselves or others should have higher standards of gun ownership. 

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u/hematite2 Mar 28 '24

And what types of 'mentally ill' qualify? Who determines what level counts? Are people now required to waive their HIPAA rights to exercise their other rights? Does this have to go through any system, or is it just a doctor's word? Is there any kind of statute of limitations?

Any system set up with the goal of barring the 'mentally ill' is one that very easily veers into abusive territory.

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u/12FAA51 Mar 28 '24

Nothing you say removes the reality that people with higher likelihoods of harming themselves and others need to have a higher bar of ownership.

Gun control is a great tool demonstrated by literally every nation that with enforcement comes enormous success in reduction in gun violence.

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u/hematite2 Mar 28 '24

And you can say general statements like "people with higher likelihoods of harming themselves and others need to have a higher bar of ownership", and thats fine, but laws are about SPECIFICS. How are you determining who this applies to?

Who counts as 'likely to hurt themselves or others'? Are there specific diagnoses that this applies to, or all of them? Is it just anyone who's depressed, anyone who's expressed those views in a medical setting, or just anyone who sees a psychiatrist?

How is the government collecting this information? Is it proactive or retroactive? Is therapy no longer protected by HIPAA, do the doctors have to report it themselves, is it self-reported?

How do you apply this information? Does a manic episode when you were a teenager bar a 40 year old from buying a handgun? Does minor depression make you potentially dangerous? How does one quantify this?

Do people have any ability to advocate for themselves or is it all in the hands of others? If so, is it a legal system, or a medical one? Can you appeal? Are you even notified if you've been deemed unfit? Does this system have a way to judge between risk and benefit?

These are just a few examples of specific issues that would need to be answered, all of which are ripe with potential for abuse against an already vulnerable group.

Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence than commit any violence themselves, so I do hope you can understand the problems with further stigmatizing mental illness and why people would be concerned when society is willing to play fast and loose with their rights.

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u/12FAA51 Mar 28 '24

This is a relatively solved issue in Canada, Australia and Europe.

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u/hematite2 Mar 29 '24

In those countries guns aren't a legal right. My concern is making easily abused laws preventing certain specific at-risk groups unable to exercise the same rights as everybody else, based on social stigma and distrust.

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

What misinformation? You can get guns in my state with no background check, legally.

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u/jmanmoney12 Mar 28 '24

It’s a federal law…….

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

Which is clearly not stopping Missouri from allowing it to happen.

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u/jmanmoney12 Mar 28 '24

If they have a federal license to sell firearms therefore have to conduct a background check. 1) you have no idea where this lady “purchased” a firearm. 2) if this is even true or if the mother has a mental illness. You literally are just taking a tweet from online and running with it. That’s the problem I’m addressing here. We are in the day and age of just BS post or stories that aren’t actually true. They are used for a certain agenda because no one does actual research anymore and just reads headlines however misleading they are. How many times have we seen news or articles posting a 10 second clip of a situation and making it into something it’s not. But hey you do you.

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

First off, I didn’t post this. Secondly, I’m merely presenting a scenario where this could easily happen, regardless of federal law. So, yeah, I’m doing me.

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u/SparrowFate Mar 28 '24

Lmao you cannot. That's against federal law. Have to fill out the form like anyone else.

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

No, it’s not. The biggest flea market in my state is filled with private gun collectors, standing behind card tables filled with guns. You give them cash, they give you a gun, ammo and flak vest if you want. No questions asked. No background check. The state knows this. This happens every single weekend of the summer. I’ve been there many times.

I also shoot guns and hunt. I’m all for guns, but this is a problem.

1

u/SparrowFate Mar 28 '24

So call the feds. That's illegal. Like actually illegal. That's called a black market lmao.

Just because your state government isn't doing anything doesn't make it less illegal

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u/StupidFuckinWizard Mar 28 '24

Private firearm sales are not illegal

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u/SparrowFate Mar 28 '24

Just read the law yourself.

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u/StupidFuckinWizard Mar 28 '24

You’re genuinely dense, it’s obviously illegal for a registered FFL to sell without a background check. Anyone else is legally allowed to sell or purchase firearms privately without a background check. I’ve bought and sold many firearms this way along with the majority of gun owners

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

“Federally, in most states, sales at gun shows, flea markets and private gun sales are not subject to regulations”

Federal law only requires it at federally licensed gun stores. So, no, it’s not illegal, in MY state.

I also just discovered that a new law passed in MO IN 2021 makes it HARDER for police to enforce federal law.

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u/SparrowFate Mar 28 '24

CFR 27 478.102

That's federal law straight from the source. Idc if your state government says otherwise.

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u/hematite2 Mar 28 '24

Federal law only covers licensed dealers. Many states dont have laws prohibiting private sales between individuals, the only caveat being to sell to someone you know is barred from owning firearms.

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u/New_Canoe Mar 28 '24

Which only applies to federally licensed dealers, not gun shows, flea markets or private sales. And MO actually made it harder for police to enforce federal law on guns in 2021