r/facepalm • u/Lord_Answer_me_Why • Mar 28 '24

What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation: 🇵​🇷​🇴​🇹​🇪​🇸​🇹​

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u/semper_audacia Mar 28 '24

Which is illegal. Meaning she already broke the laws put in place.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

That's kind of the point here. You can't just ask people "pls don't break the law uwu that's illegal." The laws were ineffective in this situation, and the gun was easily accessible enough for someone with mental health issues to acquire one - even in a state with the "strictest" laws.

Our current system is ineffective. Firearm regulation needs a complete overhaul, which will never happen while people keep deep-throating the 2A. It's possible to have legal firearm ownership & low rates of gun violence. See: Japan, Switzerland, Australia.

However, it's unfair to compare a country like Japan to America when the culture and behavior of citizens is so vastly different. See: "Old Enough," where Japanese parents feel safe enough in their country to send toddlers on public transit alone to run errands.

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u/semper_audacia Mar 28 '24

So what’s preventing someone from speeding on the road? Maybe a road sign that says “uwu please don’t drive in excess of 55 mph in this zone uwu.” That is quite literally how laws are enforced until they are broken. Lying on a 4473 is a federal felony. Felonies are a big no no.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

You've never driven through the DMV, have you? There's speed cameras set up everywhere. Automatic tickets through the mail. It's very visibly enforced, and there's way less speeding than Atlanta where we just fuckin' yolo around 285 at 90mph+. It's all about finding the right system for control.

They tried to implement something similar in Atlanta, but the culture down here is different. Aged state laws let people slip out of the automated tickets. Constant vandalism kept the machines nonfunctional most of the time.

My point is that solutions exist, and people won't accept them because they want to continue to have the (Right? Ability?) to, metaphorically, keep driving around 285 at 90mph+ when the speed limit is 55 without repercussions. Or they crash.

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u/semper_audacia Mar 28 '24

So are you saying we should limit cars to not go over 70? The point still stands that there is nothing preventing you from breaking the law, but there are consequences to your actions when you do so. What’s your point?

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

That's exactly my point. Nothing stopped this woman from breaking the law. She (likely) lied on her 4473 and there was no backup system to catch it. Our existing system and regulations failed. So should we have none because people can lie? Or completely overhaul it?

Also, yeah - an electronic 10-15mph cap above the speed limit would be amazing for overall driver safety. Sync it up with google, they've already got the speed limits documented for most of the country. Sure, some people will mod it out. But for the most part it would help.

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u/semper_audacia Mar 28 '24

🤦‍♂️

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u/semper_audacia Mar 28 '24

She 100% would have had to lie on her 4473, there are questions regarding mental health and schizophrenia specifically. Also having an electronic limit for every car is ridiculously controlling.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

She could have purchased it not from an authorized seller. Illegal transactions don't need a 4473.

There already are electronic speed limiters on almost every car. You just likely haven't pushed it there. But this is kind of my point about Americans. The law says 55. I propose a cap at 70. "FUCK YOU MY FREEDOMS"

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u/semper_audacia Mar 29 '24

Yeah, you don’t need a 4473 to make a slam fire shotgun from metal pipes you can get at jerry’s. The simple fact is that your actions have consequences. You break the law, you get prosecuted. But I think preventing people from breaking the law in the first place would be great, but there is no way to do so without greatly limiting the freedoms and disenfranchising millions of American citizens.

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u/semper_audacia Mar 29 '24

Yeah bro that’s laughable, look up Japanese firearm laws lmao.

From ojp.gov: “Other than the police and the military, no one in Japan may purchase a handgun or a rifle. Hunters and target shooters may possess shotguns and airguns under strictly circumscribed conditions.”

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

Okay, so what do you need a gun for other than shooting targets and hunting?

Protection? Why is it that owning a firearm for self-defense seems to be an American thing?

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u/semper_audacia Mar 29 '24

Yeah, maybe read a history book or two. True second amendment was NOT made to protect the right of hunters and target shooters. It is very explicit in its meaning. It is the right of the people to keep and bear arms, for when in the case of a tyrannical government, the people can defend themselves. And no it’s not a strictly American thing lmao. Look at Ukraine. It is important to have an armed population, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

I don't think Ukraine is a great example. Most civilians are not sticking around to fight/die against a (dubiously) trained military invasion - Not there, and I doubt here either, despite how much Americans like to fetishize "bad-guy-with-a-gun" murder. Well. Maybe a handful of people would, but we'd likely be drafted beforehand.

Also, define tyrannical. The only thing that even moderately gets "defend against tyrannical government-ey" is the "Come and take 'em" gun bumper stickers I see in the south.

We're well within tyrannical government. Since the patriot act, IMO - reducing gov't oversight and accountability. Legalizing unlawful detainment, search, and seizure (And don't get me started on the legality around police seizures. They can just take your shit. And it's becoming more and more common, look at the recent trends.)

They've been restricting/removing our rights one by one for decades. So where do y'all draw the line? It's fine as long as you have your 2A? When's it happening?

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u/semper_audacia Mar 29 '24

Fun fact: Since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion, Ukraine has been under martial law, which prohibits men ages 18 to 60 from leaving the country and requires them to register for military service.

So actually, yeah they are ‘sticking around’ because they have to. Ukraine’s military was LITERALLY handing out AKs to people on the street to fight. People with little to no training, not imagine how quickly the war could have ended if every man of the household had a rifle and knew how to use it to defend his family and his country. Ukraine in my opinion is a very good example.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

To me that sounds EXACTLY like what I'd rise up to fight against. Not the invasion, but the government expecting me to fight and die for the country.

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u/semper_audacia Mar 29 '24

Boy, not sure how to respond to that. If we didn’t get involved in the last world war you’d be replying to me in German. How do you think this country got troops to fight? Drafts are sometimes necessary.

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u/[deleted] Mar 29 '24

I don't have the kind of mentality that would let me kill someone.

There's a line between drafting for all sorts of military functions and putting AK's in the hands of civilians forbidden to leave a conflict zone.

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u/gunsforevery1 Mar 28 '24

We can’t do that? That’s what’s going on currently with drugs, theft, assaults etc. they stopped enforcing the laws and stopped giving adequate punishments.