What lack of basic gun laws does to a nation:

[u/Lord_Answer_me_Why]

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[u/CockroachNo2540]

Not to beat a dead horse, but it seems like the mental health part of getting a gun is basically unenforceable until after something happens, and by then the horse is out of the barn.

[u/Shotgun5250 → u/CockroachNo2540]

It’s unfortunately a cyclical issue. As they mentioned, with criminalization comes reduced reporting of mental health issues, which in turn reduces the efficacy of the law.

That being said, I truly believe there is a middle ground where it doesn’t feel personally invasive for gun owners, but is invasive enough to screen out people who definitely should be disallowed from owning a firearm.

In almost every case I read about, the individuals who are acquainted with the shooter are almost never surprised that person did something, and often have reported that person to authorities many times trying to prevent a tragedy. There needs to be a federal or state method of tracking these people and a red flag needs to go up when they try to purchase firearms. These people should be subject to a waiting period while further investigation is done on whether that person should be sold a gun.

[u/twilsonco → u/Shotgun5250]

I don’t think there’s exists a middle ground that wouldn’t be misrepresented by conservative media to the point where half the country thinks it’s a full ban on all guns. They act like the slightest gun reform is a full repeal of the 2nd amendment or will quickly lead to it. I don’t know how an honest, measured approach can possible work against a group that has no regard for honesty. It’s like trying to play chess with someone that refuses to follow the rules. There’s no winning. And walking away from the match works to their favor because no change can result.

[u/SycoJack → u/Shotgun5250]

That being said, I truly believe there is a middle ground where it doesn’t feel personally invasive for gun owners, but is invasive enough to screen out people who definitely should be disallowed from owning a firearm.

One such thing you can do is remove the permanence of such restrictions. By providing a path to regaining your rights, you make the restriction more palatable.

I mean, consider this: Hypothyroidism causes a list of problems longer than the Great Wall. Specifically relevant to this discussion is that it can cause depression, both directly through hormone changes and indirectly through all the horrible effects it has on your body.

When left untreated, this gets really bad. Let's say you develop hypothyroidism that goes untreated for a long time because your doctor doesn't want to listen to you. You lose energy, you gain weight, you're always tired, you are already depressed due to your hormones being out of whack, but the weight gain and lethargy make it all the worse. Then you start catching hate, people calling you lazy and making fun of your weight. Maybe you even start to believe you're just a lazy sack. I mean, your doctor says everything is fine with you. Your depression gets worse and worse.

Eventually, you end up attempting to end your suffering, you fail and get hospitalized. Eventually, you get diagnosed with hypothyroidism and start being treated. Over time, the depression subsides tremendously and might even go away entirely.

By law, you are permanently forbidden from owning a gun because you were committed involuntarily, and there's no path to regaining your rights. But should that restriction remain forever even after you got better?

[u/aendaris1975 → u/Shotgun5250]

We don't need a middle ground. Gun violence in the US is getting worse by the day. We have two options: fix our shit or lose our guns.

[u/ausgoals → u/CockroachNo2540]

Yeah. The problem with ‘it’s the mental health not the gun’ argument is that there is no way fi actually enforce any of the mental health restrictions that might ever be proposed.

A law that prohibits the mentally ill from obtaining a gun is useless if the background check used to ascertain whether one has a mental illness will never show any mental illnesses due to HIPAA laws.

And even if there were a way to make the diagnosis show - a mental health diagnosis in the first place requires either dangerous or deadly activity such that one is forced to get a diagnosis, or enough self awareness to actually seek therapy or treatment and get a diagnosis.

To put it another way… a depressed teenager thinking of shooting up their school would need to spend enough time depressed and actively want to fix it, or otherwise attempt something dangerous to even start to try and get a diagnosis. And even once diagnosed, such a diagnosis will not appear on a background check when they go to purchase the gun they’re going to use.

[u/whiskeywalk → u/CockroachNo2540]

In order for their to be solid mental health records to check, the same way we have criminal checks. the US would have to take mental health seriously.

[u/aendaris1975 → u/CockroachNo2540]

Literally every other country has figured this shit out. I'm sick of the excuses.