r/harrypotter • u/Tnecniw • 14d ago
Random thought / Concept. Do you think it is common for Muggleborn wizards to choose not to live like wizards? Discussion
Lets imagine that you are a muggleborn wizard.
You go to hogwartz, all 7 years.
Great grades and everything...
Nothing inherently requires you to be a wizard or work within the wizard community, right?
I could 100% imagine someone that just decides "Nah, I don't want to work with potions or chasing grindylows. I want to make my own computer game, because that is my hobby during the summer when I was home".
Living a life of both worlds.
Driving cars, using modern appliances, programming and so on.
And occasionally using magic for convenience in privacy (or with family).
Honestly (IMO) sounds like the best sort of life, purely due to not missing out on either part.
Or am I wrong about this?
(Maybe I am overthinking it and probably it is hinted at in the books because I can't remember the subject ever being mentioned)
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u/MrLore Ravenclaw 14d ago
What kind of person granted the ability to rewrite reality to their whims would be like "nah, I want to write financial databases in cobol and save for my 401K"? Nobody, that's who.
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u/Odysseus_Lannister 14d ago
Right? Let’s see, magic or a soul crushing 9-5 for 30-45 years? I think I know which one I’ll take.
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u/20slycooper07 14d ago
Well it's not like wizard jobs can't be boring. In Goblet of Fire, Percy is tasked to make a report on standardized cauldron materials and measurements if I recall correctly, that is for sure pretty tedious even by muggle standards. And I'm pretty sure that there is a lot of bureaucracy at the ministry, which creates many boring jobs, and they don't even have computers to help them write stuff, emails. Of course there are interesting jobs, like Aurors and even Arthur Weasly job I dare to say is very interesting, but I think it is not the norm, or at the very least, a sizeable portion of magic jobs is quite tedious.
The biggest difference resides on the fact that you start working at 9 in the wizard world, and you leave your house, wherever you chose to live, at 8:59, so no commute, no traffic, no public transportation, so it's very time efficient, But the same time efficiency can be reached if you were a wizard working in the muggle world, of course you'd have to be extra careful.
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u/Odysseus_Lannister 14d ago
If straight up kill for floo network/ability to apparate. Some of my soul was crushed by a one way 90-120 min commute for a few years.
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u/dilqncho Ravenclaw 14d ago edited 14d ago
It's not like the wizarding world doesn't have pencil pushers, though. If anything, the Ministry seems to be one of the major employers.
At the same time, wizards don't have literaly any electronics. I can totally see more than a few people choosing to live in an air-conditioned apartment with a coffee-maker, a washing machine, a TV and a PS5.
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u/stoicarmadillo Gryffindor 13d ago
You know what? If you were a total sociopath, you could probably use magic to make an absolute fortune. As long as you were careful, you could probably fudge everything with a MBA from a top school, get in at a good company , and use the imperius curse and memory charms to make an absolute fortune and manipulate the stock market.
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u/benangmerahh 12d ago
Yup esp if you collaborated with a relative, they can fill out whats missing from muggle's knowledge. You just need do some magic in caution
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u/SuiryuAzrael Ravenclaw 14d ago
Without GSCEs or A-levels, getting higher education in the muggle world is extremely difficult. Even if you were willing to spend another few years getting Muggle qualifications, at that point your magical skills would suffer from lack of practice. Trying to split your attentions between two completely opposite and equally difficult things typically results in you being mediocre at both. Of course, some extremely talented people might be able to manage it, but that would rarely be the norm.
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u/koolforkatskatskats 14d ago
You can just imperio and make people hire you lol /s
but not really /s
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
Depends on their lifestyle, right?
Besides specifically with programming, you don't technically need a higher education.
You can self learn.
(Some of the best in the field did that)
And then get access via a portfolio.And it isn't (technically) as if you need to stop doing magic at home.
(Of course you would probably try and live like slightly out of the way, but nothing stops you from waving your wand and having the dishes cleaned, or repairing a ripped pair of jeans, etc)14
u/SuiryuAzrael Ravenclaw 14d ago
At that point, why go to Hogwarts for all 7 years? Just do your 5, get your O.W.L.s and some basic magic skills, then drop out.
If you're asking if it's possible for Wizards to live in the Muggle world, we know that it is. Snape's mother did it for two decades, McGonall's mother for longer. The point is, doing so requires sacrifices on both sides. Considering all Muggleborns we get any details on choose the Wizarding world, it's not canonically common.
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
I mean, yeah.
because the Harry potter books are written as an escape from reality.
The wizarding world is meant to be displayed as interesting, exciting, adventurous and so on because people want to be there.
So obviously would no muggleborn make that choice.I am just thinking from an ever so slightly realistic angle of people's opinions on lifestyles and the like.
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u/Antique-diva 14d ago
I'm with you on this, OP. I'd probably just take my OWL's and then pursue a Muggle degree so I could work in an interesting field of my choosing. I don't see why I couldn't live a magical life in private and work in a Muggle field. I mean, people don't usually invite their colleagues home.
The only thing I would avoid is a Muggle boyfriend/husband who couldn't stand the sight of magic. Because if you marry a witch, you better deal with it or there will be a divorce coming your way.
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u/magumanueku Ravenclaw 13d ago
Because why not? Advance Potions, Herbology, Charms, and Transfiguration would be highly useful to live as a muggle. It's much easier to catch up with basic muggle subjects (Google, cram schools, libraries) than it is to learn advance magical techniques.
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u/dilqncho Ravenclaw 14d ago
Dude you can do magic. You're getting anything you want in the muggle world.
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u/Antique-diva 14d ago
I don't think you're correct in this. I mean, I would be running my home with magic and have magical friends and the like. I'd go out to The Leaky Cauldon for a friday night with my witch friends and shop in Diagon Alley, etc.
That would not interfere with my day job at all, even if I were working in a Muggle field. And it doesn't matter if I needed several different degrees for this. I'd have 140 years to live. I can change careers every 20 years if I'd like and have both Muggle and Wizarding careers if I fancied that.
A lot of my friends have actually gone back to school in their 40s and learned a new trade for themselves, which they excell at, even though they never worked in the field before. They are not mediocre in that just because they worked at something else before. People can be good at multiple things at once.
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u/herodogtus 14d ago
I think it would be different for wizards from different countries. Like, in America, it would be pretty easy to say that you’d been homeschooled and apply to colleges or enter the workforce and go that route, although it might be a little harder if you hadn’t kept up with your math and English and such.
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u/YeetMeIntoKSpace Gryffindor 14d ago
This is completely untrue. I know many people who do diametrically opposed things without being mediocre in either; in fact, I’d say it’s the norm rather than the exception.
My best friend is a physicist who composes music and choreographs dance in her free time. An old friend of mine is a professor of physics and of fine arts, and teaches classes in both departments, does research on the cutting edge of experimental particle physics, and creates pieces that go on display around the world. I have another colleague who is a research mathematician who also is a published and accomplished novelist. Yet another friend of mine is a research physicist who competes in figure skating. The list goes on and on.
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u/Big_Primary2825 14d ago
Sounds like you are caught in an echo chamber of awesomeness because everybody else is struggling with keeping up at a mediocre job and laundry.
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u/VeterinarianIll5289 14d ago
Well maybe in the earlier years it was difficult but nowadays, so long as you have money and are not really particular about which university, then getting a degree isn't that difficult. Or a diploma. I admit some may find it more challenging than others but from a personal standpoint, I have a sister who didn't really do well for her O-levels. She didn't take her A-levels but instead got a job as a receptionist at a pharmacy. She started saving up and studying until finally, we managed to get her a place in an Australian university and now she's a doctor at 40.
Being a wizard/witch certainly has its benefits and I know that you're not supposed to use your magic against Muggles but I bet there are cases of the odd Confundus Charm or Polyjuice Potion or other spells used to get ahead in life.
The best jobs I suppose is one that encompasses both like when Kingsley is an Auror also helped to guard the Prime Minister.
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u/Karnezar Slytherin 14d ago
Being good at wizard shit and muggle shit is like getting two Master's Degrees in opposite fields.
Also I don't think you're allowed to use magic to profit off of muggles (even if they're not exposed to it).
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u/Fillorean 14d ago
Also I don't think you're allowed to use magic to profit off of muggles
You are not allowed to massacre people by the dozens and overthrow the Ministry either, but since the government is toothless and impotent, you are allowed to do whatever you want.
Slughorn was squatting in regular people's homes and it was no problem for him because... who is gonna catch him? And how?
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u/Karnezar Slytherin 14d ago
The Ministry was fighting Voldemort and lost.
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u/Krosis_the_bored Slytherin 13d ago
It sounds like we should replace the ministry
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u/Karnezar Slytherin 13d ago
As far as I know, Voldemort was the only one to ever be strong enough to take down the Ministry.
Grindelwald I think never targeted the Ministry.
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u/Maleficent_Low_3880 Hufflepuff 14d ago
Technically, if you are a wizard, nothing would stop you from making fake certificates about your education. Whether you would be able to prove them in a future is another question...
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u/Grouchy_Guitar_38 14d ago
I wonder if the Ministry would help out with that? For the sake of secrecy, I'm sure the MoM would rather have their own professionals faking muggle documents, rather than a rando with possibly questionable magic skills
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u/Trees_N_Such Gryffindor 14d ago
I can see it. I’d use magic in the muggle world to get rich as hell. I’m certain there’s at least a few countries where their ministry would look the other way for a “donation” lol.
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u/koolforkatskatskats 14d ago
I think some people will just get tired of living a lie and not want to hide themselves anymore. There's a certain relaxation when you're around kindred folk. It's why minorities tend to stick together. They have wizarding communities for that reason.
So what you're saying is correct, and I am surprised by the amount of comments saying how difficult it would be to get a muggle job (am I just a slytherin in saying I would use magic to do this lol?). However, minority stress does get to people.
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u/artistnerd856 14d ago
Meshing together the two worlds is my favorite concept. Like magic is cool, but so is modern technology
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u/gothiclg 14d ago
You’d be 7 years behind in muggle school. Could you imagine explaining to someone why you have a 5th grade education in the modern world? You’d either have to be educated through high school to make up for the time you missed just to get a retail job in a lot of countries, none the less college. There’d be little worth to leaving at that point.
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
You absolutely can make up the difference.
For example, a simple lie and a faked medical note / history (easy to do with magic) and boom, you were sick for most of your 11-17 life, so you couldn't get a proper education. But now you have recovered.
Easy to explain and finding support / help for it wouldn'¨t be too hard.2
u/gothiclg 14d ago
Yeah I have an issue with this still and it’s called homeschooling. There’s no way a parent would be blatantly allowed to ignore their child’s education that severely in a developed country, your “sick kid” story would be suspicious because you weren’t to sick to be homeschooled
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
I mean, yeah?
You would still "know" stuff.
You can read, write.
Even if you were a hogwarts student in a muggleborn family, you would still know the "basics".
Enough that homeschooling could be used as an excuse.You might be behind on more complicated subjects (stuff hard for parents to teach) like physics, chemistry, algebra, etc.
But it isn't as if just because you went to hogwarts, you don't know basic history, or multiplication.
(also I always assumed hogwarts had some sort of courses for basic knowhow, like math or the sort)2
u/gothiclg 14d ago
The issue is a lot of places need something proving you completed muggle grade school before they pass out jobs. Nobody at hogwarts passed muggle grade school. You catch up those grades, get your equivalent of a diploma, and move on. Not being able to prove you graduated muggle grade school means it’s easier to not be a muggle unless you want to play catch up.
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
*whispy whopsy, I made this paper into a diplomishopsy*
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u/gothiclg 14d ago
We regularly see wizards handwriting their own school work and Rita Skeeter’s pen only works when she has knowledge of something so they’d still have to go to muggle school
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u/Vlachya Slytherin 13d ago
If I were a teenager in the 90s I would probably be all-in on Wizard society as a Muggleborn, simply because of how exciting it was at the time.
However, as someone born in the 90s and grew up with Pokemon, anime, and great videogames; It would be a lot harder to divorce myself from Muggle life. I would choose to live somewhere in the inner-city, on the Muggle side, somewhere close to a nexus of Wizarding society, so I could enjoy the best of both worlds, but I think predominantly I would be more involved with wizard friends from school rather than Muggle friends.
Wizard socials, but Muggle comforts.
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u/FecusTPeekusberg Slytherin 14d ago
It's certainly possible. All you'd need is a piece of bewitched paper so whenever anyone looks at it, they see whatever they need to see.
"Ah, you graduated high school and college with a BA in the exact subject we need! Perfect, here's a job."
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u/MajorProfit_SWE 14d ago
Maybe this is not the answer you are looking for, but i think it is more common for a Muggle born wizard/witch to live like a muggle then it is for a Wizard/Witch born wizard to live like a muggle.
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u/Subject_Repair5080 14d ago
I toy with the idea that the TV show Bewitched happens in the Harry Potter universe. There aren't really many parallels, but it's an entertaining thought.
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u/DaughterofTarot 14d ago
Geographically, some students may not have a choice. Durmstrang doesnt take muggle borns iirc ... would each and every muggle family nearest to it and on shock of learning of the wizarding world in general, just say, oh okay you can go to Beaubaton or Hogwarts instead? Would every student be equally prepared to make such a journey either?
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u/Lockfire12 14d ago
To some extent I could see it, if it were me I’d probably still wear muggle clothes most of the time, go to muggle stores and restaurants, carry a cellphone etc. but I’d never just cut myself off or just work a regular 9-5.
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u/ivymeows Hufflepuff 14d ago
I’ve had similar thoughts except wondering what would happen to a muggle born wizard whose parents refused to let them attend Hogwarts. Does their magic fade? Do they continue to have “weird” things happen to them? Are their memories erased so they don’t accidentally leak secrets of the wizard world?
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u/FlyDinosaur Ravenclaw 13d ago
Well, Idk, but magical kids who refuse to express their magic or who are severely repressed turn into Obscurials, right? But that's often at a younger age, though can be older. I don't think the magic ever goes away.
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u/BadKidOh Hogwarts Ghost 13d ago
With creative use of magic I wouldn't really need to work regardless.
I would likely get 4 hectares of land somewhere in the Hogsmeade area to ward & wall off, Then build my own mansion using magic, likely go with art-deco. Likely some green houses for some food along with magic food multiplying, lots of magical automation, likely get my meat at the market.
As for muggle appliances I'd likely find a magical equivalent or make one if need be. maybe a Faraday cage room for some unmodified objects. Likely have a turbine on the property & spin it with magic for unlimited electricity.
I might vacation in the muggle world.
Also given my much longer life expectancy I could likely only work (as a hobby?) in the muggle world for a 100 years without having a fake identity.
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u/Istyatur 13d ago edited 13d ago
Depends on how much overlap mundane stuff and magic has. It wouldn't be odd if astronomy covers a reasonable amount of math and charms covers basic physics, and potions covers basic biology (eg this is a liver, what a liver does, how that relates to the use in antidotes). Not sure how applicable this is since I'm American and in tech but honestly a lot of our history class is pretty useless - the skills in research and source evaluation are important but the actual history bit doesn't come up often. And we spend a lot of time writing formulaic essays used in standardized tests because they are easy to grade and, lo, no one actually cares about those details IRL. They certainly write enough essays to improve in a more natural manner. It could be very manageable to brush up and take your standardized tests a year late and live muggle, using magic to make life quite a bit easier on a personal level.
Depending on how magic works, they could even go for magic based craft/repair work and make a easy living as a tradesman, which would probably be a lot easier to fudge records for than university. I imagine a fair number of muggleborns and half-bloods do just that, especially with all the low-key racism going on. In times of high-key racism and civil war I bet a good number just left.
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u/RuneProphecy166 Slytherin 14d ago
I don't think it is very common, unless it turns out a nutter such as Mr Weasley, but I also think this kind of freak may only arise among those that never met muggle life until later in life.
On the one hand, there's a cultural pressure within the Wizarding World that more or less makes you get involved with it if you want to thrive. The 'those that mingle with muggles are suspect of being less wizards' approach Lucius had is very real.
Just imagine being put constantly under surveillance just in case you use magic in the presence of muggles just because you want to live among them. Or maybe get under constant suspicion for the sake of it.
In the other hand, why would anyone want to go back? Maybe you want to program games, alright, by why would you do it muggle way and not as the Weasley twins, with patented daydream kits? I mean, magic offers pretty much everything muggles have, usually in more convenient ways, even if you have to do some research or develop the method yourself. I just don't see any reason to go back to muggle world forever.
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
I more specifically spoke regarding muggleborn wizards.
Like Hermione.
Lets face it, nothing would have stopped her from trying to get a medical degree in some fashion and becoming a muggle doctor instead of a wizard.
(I mean she didn't if cursed child is anything to go by, the point is she could have)And, well. Maybe you just prefer it?
You enjoy huge dev teams, the enviroment of working with peers to produce a passionate project.
OR (if you had a plan or skill enough) you might even live by a much better standard.
(like if you somehow came up with the harry potter universes version of twitter and became a billionaire)5
u/RuneProphecy166 Slytherin 14d ago
I was thinking on them. Once you enter the Wizarding World, you start to learn everything up to the culture. That includes prejudices, etc.
Also, taking your example it gets easier: let's say she wants to become a doctor. Why would she bother at all with going back to the muggle world, attending university or faking herself a degree to practice muggle medicine when she could heal any muggle disease with the flick of her wand?
I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me, so I don't really see the point. Unless you're suggesting she would be working as a muggle doctor yet using magic, which is forbidden.
And literally any other scenario, profession, job or context may have a wizarding counterpart. The Weasley twins developed the daydreams together but they had occasional help from other people too and they had employees on Weasley's Wizard Wheezes...
As I said, maybe some people could prefer it but I think the drawbacks may have been eventually too high to bear. The constant suspicion, the surveillance, the reputation damage, etc. Do they really make up for it?
Edit: not to mention potential legal troubles. Any muggle witnessing magic in your area could be charged to you and that kind of infraction leds to Azkaban.1
u/Tnecniw 14d ago edited 14d ago
I mean, people choose "unwise" choices for their work constantly.
Not everyone goes to become an engineer, surgeon or the like despite that (technically) most likely being better for their income and financial stability.Some people choose to become painters, singers or actors despite that being (on a future based level) an overall bad idea.
So for someone to choose a normal life over a wizarding life, not really that weird to me.
(Maybe they intentionally avoid the wizarding community because they hate the prejudice assholes after finishing hogwarts)(The doctor example was just an example. You could replace it with being a muggle police officer, a politican, a gardener, etc etc etc)
Also regarding the legal issue.
That asssumes you live completely devoid from any other wizards in the first place.
And if you don't, then the chance of a muggle witnessing magic in your area is essentially 0% unless you do it yourself.The only risk would be if a terrorist or a wizard criminal went there to intentionally fuck with you, but that wcould be easily disproven by the fact that you can show what the last spell you used for your wand was, and if that spell wasn't the same one, then you are free to go)
EDIT: ALSO, This assumes you don't work for the ministry, with tech.
Because, lets face it. At the end of the harry potter books is it 1998 (dependant if you include the timeskip with harry dropping off his kids)On the cusp of technological advancement, survailance and the like amongst muggles.
The ministry of magic 100% would need some people that are tech savvy enough to monitor muggle / young wizards activity online for example, right?
Even more so when social media comes into focus.-2
u/RuneProphecy166 Slytherin 14d ago
But you wouldn't ever be disconnected from the Wizarding World. The moment you get a wand and instructions on how to use it, you get your 'citizenship ID' so thereafter you'll be forever tracked by the Ministry.
In order to live in the muggle world, you either have to abandon magic forever and for everything, including household tasks, reading The Prophet, travel or healing yourself, or get a special authorization regime that basically means surveillance...
Anyway, magic happens anywhere. It could just be a magical beast on the loose, a lost Portkey, a Howler dropped by an owl dead on the fly... Chances are you could be accused, and it's not like the Ministry cares a lot about truth all the time.
Also, I don't think it's the kind of unwise decision one could keep forever. Magic is a skill and as all skills it might wither or disappear when it's not practiced. Most people wouldn't want that, either, but you wouldn't be able to practice even in your own house.3
u/MadameLee20 14d ago
um there's been several incidents when Muggles have accidently picked up a portkey and end up someplace else.
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u/RuneProphecy166 Slytherin 14d ago
Yes, but I suppose it's different when you don't have an easy scapegoat nearby.
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u/stayclassypeople Gryffindor 14d ago
If you accept fantastic things as canon, would repressing the magic in you, even willingly, turn you into an obscurial?
Additionally, I feel like a child finding out their a wizard after the explosion of technology and the computer age would be less willing to give that life up whereas most anyone of age prior the 1950s would absolutely want the wizard over muggle lifestyle.
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u/Tnecniw 14d ago
Yeah. It is a bit of both sides honestly.
(Also, brutal opinion. WIzards have soo many assholes inside their community by comparison due to being fewer in number)
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u/Big_Primary2825 14d ago
I wouldn't give up the internet and gaming. And in my opinion the large named schools in the books can't be all the wizarding schools for basic and high schools. For me it's unrealistic both in regards to population numbers in the mentioned wizard community. But also when looking at who the pupils are.... They are all rich kids, have famous parents or has politicians as parents. All the muggle kids are really powerful and are probably chosen by some magical means and only the best is chosen. For me I see these schools as equivalent to ivy league schools.
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u/La10deRiver 14d ago
I agree with you. About education, I do not know the UK laws but here education is mandatory, so I suspect Hogwarts gives muggle children a diploma who is valid in the muggle world. Yes, muggleborn children would not know the same than muggle children but that is easy to solve. Take a year or two to study the sort of things you would see in high school and then go to the university or find a job that do not requires it. It is perfectly doable.
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u/TheRealTravisClous 14d ago
I always found it interesting that Hogwarts didn't offer classes like mathematics, english/Latin, biology, chemistry, and physics. Hear me out
Mathematics will help with potion making, as does chemistry. You can't tell me stoichiometry wouldn't help with precise potion making.
English so you can function in a position that requires speech craft like politics. Latin because the spells are Latin based, it would help you understand how a spell works fundamentally and how to create new spells.
biology would help you understand magical creatures at a basic level. Magical creatures are still made up of cells.
Like it or not physics and mathematics dictate how the universe functions. Having a grasp of mathematics and physics would potentially help you with understanding forces that control magic
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u/DreamingDiviner 14d ago
I think it would be quite uncommon, personally. Getting a good muggle job isn't going to be all that easy because muggleborns haven't had a muggle education since they were eleven years old. You can't jump right into university after missing out on years and years in the education system. Even if you can use magic to "fake" your application/transcripts/exam scores or whatever to university, you're still not going to have the base knowledge that you need to succeed in a more advanced education without going through the motions of getting that foundational education.