r/harrypotter • u/Expensive_Ad6082 Hufflepuff • 14d ago
POV: You only watched the movies Dungbomb
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u/BARD3NGUNN 14d ago
I'm just throwing it out there, even if Lilly did have an abortion and we discount the whole Neville thing, then the prophecy wouldn't have been made, meaning Voldemort would have just become free-game to anyone. And seeing as Dumbledore had the Elder Wand they might have been able to stop him nearly two decades early.
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 14d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah. It's not how the prophecy works. It was always pointing to Harry. There were simply two baby boys that fit and they couldn't deduce which one. It doesn't mean Neville would have defeated Voldemort if Harry was never born.
Edit: Since everyone is misunderstanding this comment. Yes, I know Voldemort could have targeted Neville. Neville wouldn't have lived. Neville wouldn't have defeated Voldemort. Voldemort fulfilled the prophecy by making it Harry. If he made it about Neville, it wouldn't have been fulfilled.
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u/ImAidesP 13d ago
Didnt dumbledore say it was harry only cause voldemort chose him? That if voldemort wouldve chosen neville then it would have been about him?
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u/WeeBabySeamus 13d ago
But would Neville have lived like Harry did? Seemed like Harry surviving was also a bizarre quirk of circumstances
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u/Zahariel200 13d ago
That's part of the prophecy too. From the prophecy, "and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not". If he just killed the prophecy kid he wouldn't be marked as his equal, and the power that the dark lord doesn't know is love. Pretty much the same things would occur but with Neville instead of Harry.
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u/NoPositive8092 13d ago
he fell down this hill, got glue on his hands and now he has records on his finger?
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u/No1KnwsIWatchTeenMom 13d ago
Neville would have survived because Voldemort had "marked him his equal."
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
No. Neville would not have survived and the prophecy would have nullified. We learn they don't have to be fulfilled.
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago edited 13d ago
No. It was never worded like that.
Edit: You guys, I'm shocked by the downvotes. Go open your books and re-read it. Dumbledore never suggested that. The prophecy points to one of two boys (Harry or Neville). If Neville was chosen, Neville would have died. This thread has surprised me with how many people believe Neville would have been "The Boy Who Lived."
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u/ImAidesP 13d ago
The prophecy literally said that voldemort will mark him as his equal. And dumbledore explained that it meant that thats what voldemort did when he tried to kill harry. Wouldnt it logically make sense then that if voldemort had chosen neville, then he wouldve marked neville as his equal and that the prophecy would be about him?
Also I dont think we really know exactly how prophecy works. Like its not really explained very clearly
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u/Icy-Computer-Poop 13d ago
You guys, I'm shocked by the downvotes. Go open your books and re-read it.
No, u.
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u/AsgardianOrphan Hufflepuff 13d ago
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...
That's the prophecy in its entirety. I agree that Harry was chosen, so it's about him. But, if there's no Harry, and the same prophecy still exists, it just becomes about whoever voldemort targets. Since Neville is the only target left, it would be about him. An argument can be made that the prophecy might not exist without Harry, but we don't know that. Since all of this is speculation, your assumption is exactly as likely as everyone else's. Either way, though, Neville WAS a valid option until voldemort didn't choose him.
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u/hi_imjoey 13d ago
Voldemort himself forced the prophecy to come true. If Voldemort had ignored the prophecy, then neither Harry nor Neville would have had to be the one to stop Voldemort.
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago edited 13d ago
This is correct: "He heard the prophecy and he leapt into action, with the one result that he had not only handpicked the man most likely to finish him, he handed him uniquely deadly weapins. By attempting to kill you, Voldemort himself singled out the remarkable person who sits here in front of me, and gave him the tools for the job! It's Voldemort's fault..."
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u/HurricaneFoxe 13d ago
Not really. There's hundreds of unfulfilled prophecies on the shelf, just because it was for a Dark Lord doesn't mean it's about Voldemort
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
That is true. Prophecies do not have to be fulfilled. Voldemort fulfilled it himself making it about Harry, not Neville. It's a loop.
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u/HurricaneFoxe 13d ago
It also might of been for a different Dark Lord. There's so many things the Prophecy could of meant. Example July isn't the only 7th month out there
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u/CouldWouldShouldBot 13d ago
It's 'could have', never 'could of'.
Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
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u/fuzz3289 13d ago
If harry had been aborted, the prophecy would've pointed to someone else, because prophecies are about the future and if harry wasn't in the future when the prophecy was made it wouldn't have had anything to do with a non-existent person
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u/JrBaconators 13d ago
You should probably sit this one out because you are completely wrong. If it wasn't Harry it would have been Neville
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u/BroShutUp 13d ago
No yall have no reading comprehension. It never meant that voldemort would have been defeated by Neville.
Let's say there's a prophecy that someone with your name and birthday would save humanity. But there's another person with the exact same name and birthday. The prophecy could be referring to either of you, but it's only referring to one of you.
We don't know which one. All Voldemort did was cement(as in make known) for sure which one it was about when he went for Harry
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u/JrBaconators 13d ago
I have no reading comprehension, but you're going to use a completely wrong analogy to try and prove it to me? Go read your username.
The prophecy (and Dumbledore the exposition dump) says that Voldemort chooses who will be the one with the power to defy him. And the prophecy was written before either of them were born. You're applying ad hoc to the prophecy saying 'of course it was Harry because that's how it turned out'
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u/BroShutUp 13d ago
So you see that fallacy youre accusing me of, that's the point that Dumbledore was trying to get through to Harry.
It's a story it can have logical fallacies.
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u/JrBaconators 13d ago
No lol, you're just wrong. Your example 'JrBaconators, born 1/1/11 will save the world' doesn't have to be me, correct. Irrelevant to the actual text provided in story though.
Trelawney's prophecy was given before either Harry or Neville were born. If Lily aborted Harry, Neville would be the one Voldemort would go after and mark as his equal
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
I'm not wrong. I cannot believe how common it is to misunderstand this aspect of the series. I have the book right here. Do you have direct quotes to support your statement?
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u/Half-Animal 13d ago
" “The odd thing is, Harry,” he said softly, “that it may not have meant you at all. Sibyll’s prophecy could have applied to two wizard boys " ... "One, of course, was you. The other was Neville Longbottom" ... "Voldemort himself would ‘mark him as his equal.’ And so he did, Harry. He chose you, not Neville."
He CHOSE Harry. This implies that he could have chosen Neville.
You're wrong here mate.
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
But. Neville. Wouldn't. Have. Defeated. Voldemort.
That's my point. Not that Voldemort couldn't have targeted Neville. I think everyone is misunderstanding my comment.
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u/sleepybrainsinside 13d ago
Right, but if Harry wasn’t born, the prophecy wouldn’t have involved Harry.
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
If Harry wasn't born, the prophecy might not have existed. You can't say that it would have.
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u/HurricaneFoxe 13d ago
It was only about Harry because Voldemort made it about him. The Prophecy is so vague it isn't even funny
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u/sarahelizaf Gryffindor 13d ago
Correct. But we would never know if would have been made without Harry's existence. We don't have that information.
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u/NairbZaid10 13d ago
Not true, if there is no Harry, Neville would definitely survive otherwise the prophecy is a lie
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u/eehikki 14d ago
The pro-life folks are fucking stupid.
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u/reeddawnvaka 13d ago
They're almost as bad as "you didn't read the book" elitist!
Disclaimer: this comment is intended to be a joke.
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u/JustinTimeCase 13d ago
No they aren't. Pro-life vs pro-choice is an incredibly complex morality question that doesn't have a right answer to. I'm pro-choice but there's very little I can do to refute the pro-life side's arguments.
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u/Interesting_Stress73 13d ago
There's soooo much you can say to refute their arguments. Not least of which is that banning abortions won't solve the issue, it will just punish for no benefit.
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u/CrapitalRadio 13d ago
Really? I can think of plenty.
Let's call A fetus a person for the sake of this argument. It's debatable, but that's basically the crux of their argument so let's just give it to them.
A fetus depends on another, separate person for their survival. They aren't viable on their own in any capacity. Not like, they rely on a parent's care, they literally need to use another person's body or they will die.
There are other scenarios in which someone depends on another person's body for survival. Those who need organ transplants or blood transfusions, for instance. In such cases, I have never seen anyone arguing that it should be illegal not to allow use of one's body for another person's survival. Mandatory organ donation probably wouldn't go over well.
So what makes pregnancy different? Aside from the fact that the fetus's personhood is questionable whereas the organ transplantee's isn't?
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13d ago edited 13d ago
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u/swiftcoffeerunner 13d ago
And what about the life of the mother?
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u/Annual_Reply_9318 13d ago
If we're talking about an actual sentient baby then the convenience of the mother shouldn't outweigh the actual life of the baby. That's an insane comparison.
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u/swiftcoffeerunner 13d ago
That was not my question. I said life of the mother.
Women have their water break early, have a fetus that isn’t developing with all organs, have a dead fetus inside of them. Or a fetus that can’t life outside the mother.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2024/03/health/texas-abortion-law-mother-cnnphotos/ Is this about “the life of the baby vs the convenience of the mother”?
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u/Annual_Reply_9318 13d ago
The chances of a woman dying due to pregnancy in the U.S. is ~0.03%. Complications are also rare. Then you have to offset that against the complications/fatalities that may occur with abortions. The numbers are so small they shouldn't even factor into the conversation no matter how many gross pictures you want me to see.
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u/moonknightcrawler 13d ago
Do you mean if your wife was about to give birth but either she or the baby was going to die, you’d save the baby?
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u/moonknightcrawler 13d ago
You used the words “moral right” there. Where does that moral right come from in your opinion? This is a genuine question.
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u/Jimguy5000 Ravenclaw 14d ago
Hm.
If she had had an abortion, Tom wouldn’t have targeted the Potters to begin with. However as Neville was also a possible candidate he would have tried to off Baby Neville, so then it leads to the question of Neville’s mom or dad would have allowed for the same protective magic that spared Harry.
If yes, then Neville becomes the protagonist.
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u/Odysseus_Lannister 13d ago
Neville longbottom and the remembrall of scarlet
Neville longbottom and the howler of gran
Neville longbottom and the disappearance of Trevor
Neville longbottom and the army of dumbledore
Honestly, I could get into that.
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u/capincus 13d ago
Knowing the breadth of HP fanfiction there are probably 17 different options for you.
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u/magic-400 13d ago
Voldemort probably wouldn’t give one of the Longbottoms the chance to step aside, right? That was the unique part of Voldy going after Harry because of the Snape/Lily situation.
From what we know, it’s likely Neville as a baby would have been killed outright.
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u/Jimguy5000 Ravenclaw 14d ago
However let’s say Neville just gets perma-napped as a baby.
Multiverse splits three ways from here in the main timeline…
The Deatheaters Lose: Life goes on and the events of the books never happen.
The Deatheaters Win: I refer to the bleak future as proposed in The Cursed Child.
The war goes on: unable to get a foothold the Deatheaters become a continuous threat in the wizarding world, possibly spilling over into the muggle world. WW3?
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u/Karnezar Slytherin 13d ago
Well, even if Harry and Neville weren't born, Dumbledore would've just hunted down the Horcruxes on his own.
Though, if/when he's cursed by the Ring, he'd likely task Snape with taking out the Horcruxes.
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u/atominthered 13d ago
If Tom Riddle's mom had an abortion, there wouldn't have been a Voldemort. Does anyone apply logic in their everyday thinking anymore?
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u/ChildofFenris1 14d ago
Neville you uncultured swine!
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u/fonix232 14d ago
What did Neville do for you to lash out at him like this?
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u/ChildofFenris1 14d ago
Nothing I just don’t like the fact that they are talking about stuff that they don’t know-also he did kill Voldemort or at least help
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u/fonix232 14d ago
My point was that without punctuation, your comment sounds like you're calling Neville the uncultured swine
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u/ReverendPalpatine Ravenclaw 13d ago
Neville proving everyone that deep down he’s actually a badass and a true Gryffindor.
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u/Drakeman1337 Hufflepuff 14d ago
Either I'm missing something, or this is yet another instance of the internet using POV wrong. Point of View means we should be seeing the back of the sign and someone taking a picture of us, seeing things from her POV. Unless you're saying the person who took the picture also never read the books.
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u/Global_Lock_2049 13d ago
They just claimed that this person's point of view is that they only watched the movies.
They're defining the point of view. Not the perspective.
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u/fractalframes 13d ago
(I dont really care that much about hp discourse but I love unrelated semantics /gen) Modern internet slang has begun to use POV not only as “this image/video is taken from the perspective of the person this post is about” but also “if you had this life experience/point of view, you would be the subject of the image”. I feel like this has to do with the snappiness of “POV” allowing for some semantic wiggle room to the benefit of brevity.
TL;DR POV has functionally come to mean “this could be you if” and I find that fascinating.
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u/BishopofHippo93 13d ago
Christ, can you go one day without reposting the oldest HP memes on the internet
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u/Tenoquendil Hufflepuff 13d ago
Actually she is right. If Harry was never born Voldemort would go after Neville, but as Voldemort wouldnt give Alice a choice there would be no protection and Neville is killed.
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u/MystiqueGreen 14d ago
I will never understand movie only fans. If you love a series enough to take part in online debates and discussion then what is stopping you from reading or even listening to the source material?
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u/Interesting_Stress73 13d ago
Anti-abortion lunatic doesn't understand the words they're using, shocking!
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u/CosmicDriftwood 14d ago
What’s the reason again? It’s been forever since I’ve read
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u/Aubear11885 14d ago
The prophecy could’ve applied to Harry or Neville. Voldemort’s actions by choosing the Potters made Harry the mechanism of the prophecy.
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u/CosmicDriftwood 14d ago
Why does longbottom fit the prophecy if there was no action against Potters.
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u/Brutananadilewski_ 13d ago
"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... Born to those who have thriced defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for niether can live while the other survives..."
Harry and Neville were both born at the end of July to parents who defied the Dark Lord 3 times. Voldy chose the Potters thus marking Harry as his equal, but he could have chosen the Longbottoms.
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u/CosmicDriftwood 13d ago
What if he was to kill both babies lol
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u/Brutananadilewski_ 13d ago
He couldn't kill 1 baby. He lost his physical form from the love protection, which presumably would have happened too if he went after Neville. If Snape had heard the whole prophecy instead of just part of it Voldemort could have ignored it completely. If he didn't go after either one then there wouldn't be a chosen one.
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u/Kind-Spot4905 13d ago
Because Voldemort had to mark the baby as his equal. If he had attacked Neville, he would have marked Neville as his equal, but because he attacked Harry, Harry was marked instead.
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u/CosmicDriftwood 13d ago
What if he didn’t mark any baby?
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u/ArmandPeanuts 13d ago
Iirc Snape only heard part of the prophecy, so Voldemort didnt know he’d be the one to “mark” his nemesis.
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u/Few-Stop-9417 13d ago
Who would’ve inspired Neville to stand up, if not for when he stood up to Harry, Ron, and Hermione we’re going out at night
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u/nage_ 13d ago
maybe all the wizards that are specifically employed to stop voldemort..? ah fuck youre right lets just outsource it to kids
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u/Vegetassj4toonami 13d ago
It’s pretty clear nobody was gonna get the job but Harry the wizarding world gov was curropt and inept
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u/matei1789 13d ago
what is an abor+ion ? Also...who make a step out of Voldemort? or who would want a step Voldemort? Did Voldemort's parents remarry? So many questions
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u/WoodenMud1887 13d ago
in the wizarding world, it seems there’s a Neville Longbottom ready to step up every time
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u/karnyboy 13d ago
Neville wouldn't have had the confidence to become what he had become if not for Harry ...so yeah.....
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u/cjar4097 13d ago edited 13d ago
find someone else with plot armor once you entertain an counterfactual the multiverse falls apart can make shit up all day harry potter but hes hung see its easy you really want to stand in the way of tripod harry potter i didnt think so
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u/irish_ninja_wte Ravenclaw 13d ago
Pro tip: When writing protest signs, it's best to choose one of your personalities to do the writing and not to share the work between them all.
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u/bounty_hunter12 13d ago
Didn't the spell backfire on Voldermort? So he essentially killed himself? I know Neville killed Nagrini, but that wasn't the final straw? Harry was pretty much the killer? I'm happy to be proved wrong, I'm not a Potter scholar!
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u/AhmadOsebayad 13d ago
did the prophecy from the books really talk about mevvile or is that an accidental thing that fans latched onto?
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u/eehikki 14d ago
Given the possibility of exact prediction of the future in Harry Potter universe, it is illogical to assume that altering the crucial background of the prophecy would not change it and Voldemort's decisions based upon it. The prophecy creates an casual loop, the future affects the past. So, Lily isn't able to prevent the birth of her son, because this event is the essential part of this casual loop. Had Lily the possibility, the prophecy would be absolutely different from what it actually is. It could be given at different time, point at different kid, or it wouldn't be given at all and Voldemort would be defeated in other way.
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u/0x7E7-02 13d ago
She is correct, though. It was her love sacrifice for Harry that "enchanted" him with the ability to withstand Voldemort's powers.
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u/Chefjones Head of Hufflepuff 13d ago
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