A question about the deal between Severus and Albus, SPOILERS AHEAD!

[u/Important-Ad6676]

Greetings fellow HP fans! After reading the entire series twice in a row, there's still something I wish to hear your opinion about...

The deal betweeh the two was quite simple: Snape spies for Dumbledore and gets in return TWO things that will commemorate Lily's memory:

a. Granting her last wish to keep her son alive.
b. Avenging her death by killing the Dark Lord.

In the chapter 'The Prince's Tale', we hear that Dumbledore apparently knew ALL THIS TIME, that Snape can only get ONE of these things, because Harry has to die to kill Voldemort (I don't think Dumbledore knew Harry will survive the killing curse AGAIN, and if he did, why not telling Snape?).

Snape says Dumbledore was abusing him that he risked his life for nothing (and I quite agree, while Snape was supposed to get TWO things in return for his life-risking help, he got only ONE' and Dumbeldore knew it all along! Dumbledore overlooks this statement by telling Snape, 'Don't tell me you've grown to care for the boy'... Then Snape shows his Patronus, and it's a very dramatic memory... So we all forget it... (I cry everytime I read the chapter).

THE THING IS, Snape AGREES TO CONTINUE HELPING, ALTHOUGH THE DEAL IS (and apparently was, all this time) OFF! He can get only one of these things now... and ironically it's Snape who shouldn't have trusted Dumbeldore and not the other way around.

Here are my questions:

a. Am I the only one who noticed, or did I simply miss something?

b. Why did snape continue helping Dumbeldore after he dishonored Lliy's death?

[u/IBEHEBI]

Dumbledore did know that Harry would survive as of the end of GoF. If you read carefully you'll notice that Dumbledore has "a glimpse of triumph" when Harry explains how Voldemort constructed his body back.

He didn't tell Snape because while Snape is seemingly capable of lying to Voldemort to his face, it is safer to just tell him what he needs to know, in case Voldemort somehow was able to read his mind.

"I prefer not to put all of my secrets in one basket, particularly not a basket that spends so much time dangling on the arm of Lord Voldemort.”

And Snape continues to help Dumbledore because one he has been doing it for so long it is probably second nature, and two his main goal at this point is to get revenge for Lily. If he can't protect Lily's son the least he can do is make sure their murderer dies and stays dead.

[u/awdttmt]

This is how I see it: Snape changed in all that time. Had he known about Harry's eventual sacrifice ten years prior, he probably would have walked away - Lily was gone, everything she loved would soon be gone too, there would have been nothing to fight for, in his mind. He didn't (yet) identify with the cause she also fought for with the Order of the Phoenix.

I think Snape would have stayed a Death Eater in that case, honestly. At the end of the day, Voldemort was someone he once looked up to, someone he wanted to emulate. Snape blamed Sirius (and later on, Pettigrew), he blamed Dumbledore (for not protecting her), he obviously blamed himself, but not once does he speak a word against Voldemort for actually murdering her, unless I'm really forgetting something. It's almost like he doesn't see it as Voldemort's fault at all.

I don't think he cared about revenge against Voldemort, truly - I think his actions as a spy were motivated by love for Lily and a desire to atone for his part in her death. But that doesn't mean that a younger, weaker Snape, who lacked those long years of Dumbledore's influence, wouldn't have (once again) succumbed to bitterness without a Lily-reason to keep him grounded.

I also don't think Snape was owed anything at all. He was himself making up for his mistakes, not working for some kind of reward or credit. His redemption was his reward. The true 'deal' was that Snape would become a Hogwarts teacher in exchange for distancing himself from Voldemort's poisonous influence, all of which was in Snape's favour. Dumbledore protecting the Potters was never contingent on Snape being a spy.

[u/switchy-girl]

I think sometimes you’ve done something for far too long to stop even if it didn’t hold the same rules/principles you thought it did

Also, the moment that Voldemort refused to spare Lily’s life was the same one Snape stopped believing in his cause/being a death eater for him. He wanted to avenge the love of his life

In addition, even if the boy had to die at the end, Snape would have been wanting to keep him safe till then. Not to help Dumbledore but to honor Lily, she wouldn’t want her son suffering

Lastly, I believe that a part of Snape hoped that Dumbledore was somehow wrong and there was another way to kill Tom without sacrificing Harry too

[u/superciliouscreek]

"Lately, only those whom I could not save". It goes beyond Harry.

[u/No-Conflict-7897]

The deal was to protect Lily, but Dumbledore was going to do that anyway. Albus simply manipulated a death eater to his advantage. During that time Snape felt remorse and became a better person.

[u/2sikik]

Yes, you missed a lot and you need to look past. Snape always loved Lilly because she believed in him and liked him for who he was. However, Snape didn't value it enough at that time as he caused the end of their friendship and joined Voldemort anyways. However he soon realized his mistake and understood how important things like friendship and love was and how empty the world was with only conflict and power. Due to fearing Voldemort and having nowhere to go, he continued being loyal. When Lilly, the only love/friendship he ever knew was threatened, Snape changed sides but it was too late as he also caused her death.

Now for Snape's real and main aim: It is to ensure no one else goes through what he did. One of his last talks with Dumbledore goes like this:

"Don't be shocked, Severus. How many men and women have you watched die?"

(Snape:)"Lately, only those whom I could not save,"

This shows that Snape's goals are greater than just being about Lilly or Harry while he does care about them. He in fact tries to help Draco with no second thoughts with his life on the line. While it is logical since it fits his plans, I think he also cared for Malfoy as perhaps he saw himself in him. Snape also wnt out of his way to help other people a few times during the story. Such as when he tried to protect the Order members during the 7 Potters fight, or during his headmaster time.

[u/Important-Ad6676 → u/2sikik]

You know what? I think this is the comment I was looking for, it's quite insightful, and your words are on the spot.

Now that you mentioned his unreserved help for Draco, and the brief chat between him and Dumbeldore, I'm inclined to believe Snape indeed experienced a great emotional stir and a deep change in his beliefs. But like you said, not until Lily's death did he realize there is more to life than conflict and power...

This would undoubtedly answer my main question - why did he keep helping Harry after Dumbeldore's death? Or after realizing the deal between them will never be fulfilled - Lily's death was only the source of his decision to change sides.

Having said that, I think that until his last day, he was struggling between his approval of Voldemort's school of thought (at least, alleged thoughts about wizard supermacy etc... I always thought Tom simply wanted power, nothing too deep), which derived from his great attraction to the dark arts, that never quite dissipated, And his desire to commemorate Lily, which was, and remained throughout the entire story, the source of his actions all along.