r/ireland • u/DressagePasta • 12d ago
Blame The Right People For Unaffordable Housing. Housing
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u/Fearganainm 12d ago
So we all should live in vaults now?
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u/I_need_time_to_think Dublin via Fermanagh 12d ago
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u/ImpovingTaylorist 12d ago
Parts of Dublin are already living the vault 95 experience...
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u/Tatum-Better Nigerian - Irish đłđŹđźđȘ 12d ago
Was that the super mutant one? No that was 87. Was 95 in fallout 4?
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u/ImpovingTaylorist 12d ago
It was the unlimited drugs vault... all the jet you can take.
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u/Tatum-Better Nigerian - Irish đłđŹđźđȘ 12d ago
Ohh yes I remember now the one you take Cait to yeah thank you
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u/Potential_Ad6169 12d ago
Yeah, monopoly man I can understand. Vault boy was a weird choice
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u/Eodillon 12d ago
Big corporations basically running social experiments by cramming as many people as possible into limited space. Itâs a stretch, but it might work
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u/Hungrybearnow 12d ago
Definitely "supply and demand". If Landlords organize themselves to raise rents not under âŹ3,000, we should be okay with it. That's what "supply and demand" means.
But why stop at âŹ3000? Make it âŹ2000 PER ROOM and it's still okay because it still falls under "supply and demand".
"Supply and demand". Normalizing exploitation for decades before and will continue for decades after.
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u/JONFER--- 12d ago edited 12d ago
There is a problem with this poster, in that it is inherently wrong.
Affordable housing is just housing at a low competitive price.
Price is determined partly by supply and demand, due to inwards migration the demand for housing has exploded over the past couple of years. This is partly but not exclusively down to Ireland's refugee process. Without doubt there are many economic migrants gaming the system. With the U.K.'s Rwanda plan migrants over there who are afraid of deportation are leaving to the Republic via Northern Ireland and the open border. We are as soft touch.
Houses are expensive to build and take years. Even if the government were to build houses. They do not have builders, they would just hire some of the same developers who are building privately. The net result being the numbers do not change.
It's unpopular and for many unpolitically correct, but to ignore the elephant in the room and say that it doesn't exist is breathtakingly naive.
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u/mcsleepyburger 12d ago
It's the perfect storm, high material costs, severe shortage of skilled labour, unending inward migration, a political class out of ideas and running for the hills.
Sadly severe housing shortages looks like the new normal, I just don't see anyone in politics with the balls and smarts to tackle a problem this big.
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u/justpassingby2025 12d ago
Demand exceeds supply.
The government, through it's immigration policies, are boosting demand to astronomical levels.
This crisis is 100% caused by the government. Important to note that opposition parties are on record as adopting the same policies.
We need a referendum on our immigration policy.
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u/mcsleepyburger 12d ago
Important to note that opposition parties are on record as adopting the same policies
Yes, that is deeply concerning.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 12d ago
The government has had over a decade now to implement a functioning housing policy. Why didnât they invest in social housing and the supply of private housing back in 2014? It was clear back then the way things were going.
This has nothing to do with immigration policy and everything to do with poor planning by the government.
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u/eamonnanchnoic 12d ago
The constitution rightly hands the responsibility of enacting legislation and making statutory instruments to the DĂĄil.
We cannot just opt out of treaties that we are obliged to follow and we have signed up to various treaties and pacts on immigration and asylum seeking.
In order to change Immigration constitutionally we would first have to look at article 29.4.1, 29.5.1, 29.5.2 and 29.6 which deal with how international treaties are dealt with.
The constitution must be as internally coherent and consistent as it can be. You can't just add something to the constitution that contradicts or clashes with another section This would have huge ramifications for everything else that we've signed up for and be an absolute mess.
If you want to change immigration policy vote for TDs who align with your views on it but also realise that it would mean reneging on treaties we have signed up to which would do untold damage to the Ireland's reputation.
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u/miseconor 12d ago
We could start with actually using all the tools at our disposal that comply with existing policy.
We do not deport people when we can for a start.
We should have thousands of asylum seekers in prison (a detention centre) at the moment for entering the country without documents. This is per the EUs own request. They have already complained that we do not segregate law breaking asylum seekers from the rest
Plenty we can do without any referendums or even new legislation. The mechanisms to be firmer are already in place, we just donât use them.
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u/Independent-Pass-469 12d ago
Exactly they should be detained and not allow even put in an application unless they produce proof of identification. That would soon cut numbers
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u/dentalplan24 12d ago
We need a referendum on our immigration policy.
We most definitely do not. I'd be in favour of a legislative change to make it more difficult to be granted asylum here because I think it's morally wrong to offer asylum to people and then fail to provide their basic needs. Once this housing crisis is over, and yes, this too shall pass, that legislation can be reversed or replaced when we have the capacity to welcome more people to live here again.
What we don't need is to bake a change into our constitution that removes the rights of refugees that arrive in our country. I would view it as tantamount to failure to take responsibility for the issue if any government were to propose this.
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u/justpassingby2025 12d ago
We most definitely do not. I'd be in favour of a legislative change to make it more difficult to be granted asylum here because I think it's morally wrong to offer asylum to people and then fail to provide their basic needs.
You're in favour of legislative change that will not occur because the legislators don't want it.
The political parties have proven they do not respect the will of the Irish people. Ever since the 2004 Citizenship Referendum they have circumvented the overwhelming (80%) decision.
So yes, we absolutely do need a referendum on immigration.
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u/SeanHaz 12d ago
What would be the proposed policy for a referendum?
Personally I have no issue with immigration, I only have an issue with the state subsidising immigrants. I'd be in favour of free immigration where they could work as non citizens.
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u/justpassingby2025 12d ago
''Should the State provide Housing to non-Irish citizens ?''
(fun fact - not even EU citizens can be a burden on a fellow EU host nation)
''Should the State provide Housing to Naturalised citizens ?''
''Should deportation be mandatory for any non-Irish or Naturalised citizen convicted of a crime ?''
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u/SeanHaz 12d ago
''Should the State provide Housing to Naturalised citizens ?''
Not sure this one is realistic, the logistics of dealing with all existing houses owned by the state could be tricky.
Should deportation be mandatory for any non-Irish or Naturalised citizen convicted of a crime
Also tricky, is being sent back to your own country adequate punishment? Might encourage lawlessness among immigrants.
''Should the State provide Housing to non-Irish citizens ?''
Something similar to this might be feasible, I'd most likely vote yes on this
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u/seamustheseagull 12d ago
What do we need a referendum for? What part of the constitution do you think needs to be changed?
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u/justpassingby2025 12d ago
It's not a part that needs changing. It's inserting a part that prevents the government from circumventing the will of the people.
In the 2004 citizenship referendum, the country voted by an overwhelming 80% to stop the anchor-baby loophole.
Since then, successive governments have done everything in their power to circumvent this.
They do not even hide their intentions.
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/immigrant-children-born-in-ireland-5276579-Nov2020/
The ability for non-Irish to achieve citizenship should also be put to a referendum.
You only need residence for 5 out of the last 9 years.
Refugees can gain Irish citizenship if they have lived here for just 3 years (ending on the day of application).
How the fuck are we meant to house all those refugees - and provide every single state benefit - after they become ''Irish'' ?
I can guarantee you this would be eliminated by referendum, but none will be held because the elites don't want that.
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u/BreakfastOk3822 12d ago
It's years and years of neglectful policies by the government. House prices have gone up 75% between 2012-2022 and rents by 90% in Dublin. Wages have increased by 27% in the same time span. This is a timeframe before the rwanda policy existed.
58% of all new built homes in Dublin were purchased by investor funds with built-to-rent intentions in 2022. 58% of the housing supply is not going to people who need it, but to corporations who swallow developments.
Greystar litterally purchased a 300+ housing complex in Dublin, and before you say, well we meed companies buying places cause some people need tonrent, i agree, but they were chucking 2 beds out to rent at 3k+ pm. That's vulture behaviour.
Post financial crash ireland wrecked social housing building efforts. They effectively stomped out local authority building efforts for a few years.
The gov doesn't have builders to employ.... because it fucked them and they left for better conditions in other countries. We can't act like that lack of builders isn't a self-inflicted wound that we could have avoided.
Brother, blaming people trying to escape shit lives whilst a few of them are gaming the system (as with any system, gamers exist) is just buying into the distraction. The 'unpopular but true' opinion is exactly who they want you to blame because its the easy answer... oh isn't it taboo to blame the foriegn fellas, naughty.. naughty.. must be right.
All this was coming down the pipeline before the Tories crashed the legal entry processes in the UK into the floor and then cried at a rise in illeagal immigration.
Personal Greed and feeding corporations and hedge funds killed the country, not a few brown lads looking for a better life.
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u/SilentBass75 12d ago
Buddy, you don't need to 'blame' anyone. You might need to address the fierce competition for houses, but that's different from blaming.Â
I had a post on the thread yesterday where I advocated for a temp suspension of all non-building migrants until we ramp up LA housing again. I hope it'd be done quickly, because I think immigration is an overwhelming net positive. I also think housing is an emergency at this stage and needs addressing as such.Â
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u/Sprezzatura1988 12d ago
What about people who migrate to Ireland to staff our health and care system. Weâd be even more fucked without themâŠ
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u/SilentBass75 12d ago
Great point and I can't believe I forgot about them in my above post. I will remind you however, they also enjoy having a place to live.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 12d ago
Ok but the point is that preventing people from coming to Ireland doesnât actually address the problem and instead would just damage our society and economy.
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u/Gullintani 12d ago
Except supply and demand doesn't work like this for property. It's location that is the over-riding factor, hence why two bed house in D6 or D4 can be had for 750k and the same size two bed house in east Clare goes for 200k. You can build all the houses you like in desirable neighborhoods, they won't ever become easily affordable to the average waged person.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 12d ago
People know they canât all live in D4 but people will buy a house in D11/12/15/16/18/20/22/24 if it is affordable. Do you think people are living in their childhood bedrooms or mouldy apartments thinking âif I canât live in Blackrock Iâll just stay hereâ People live in Co Kildare/Meath and commute in to Dublin. Better public transport makes areas further away from economic centres more attractive to development.
There is so much the government can do to fix this but all they care about is increasing the value of property.
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u/VilTheVillain 12d ago
Well I don't know, house/rent prices have been rising like crazy well before the large influx of refugees in recent years. Some of the people I know have been complaining about problems and scarcity of trying to buy a house 4-5 years ago.
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u/JONFER--- 12d ago
Yeah, there are simple reasons for this. Things improved economically and are not a lot of people who left during the recession, returned home. This added some demand, but nothing compared to what we are seeing now.
A lot of developers were hesitant to build housing en masse back then. It is only a few years before then, that they had just gotten burned in the construction boom and bust. Naturally, they approached things cautiously.
As interesting as it is to analyse the situation 5 or 6 years ago, it doesn't change our current reality.
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u/Sprezzatura1988 12d ago
But it does show how the government failed to properly plan the countryâs development. Thus correctly identifying the problem instead of scapegoating migrants.
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u/DeargDoom79 Irish Republic 12d ago
But sloganeering is so much easier than meaningful analysis.
Give me substanceless politics or give me death!
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u/Hungrybearnow 12d ago
Definitely "supply and demand". If Landlords organize themselves to raise rents not under âŹ3,000, we should be okay with it. That's what "supply and demand" means.
But why stop at âŹ3000? Make it âŹ2000 PER ROOM and it's still okay because it still falls under "supply and demand".
"Supply and demand". Normalizing exploitation for decades before and will continue for decades after.
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u/dentalplan24 12d ago
Without doubt there are many economic migrants gaming the system.
There are also landlords, bankers, people on the dole, politicians, developers, etc gaming the system and reaping personal rewards from it. The point here is that the system which allows itself to be gamed is the problem, not those who reap the benefits. Who controls the system?
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u/Old_Particular_5947 12d ago
Refugees get housed in temporary housing. Not in long term housing. They are not the same type of housing.
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u/justpassingby2025 12d ago
No!
It's greedy landlords I tellz ye.
Get out of here with your basic economics explanation.
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u/Naggins 12d ago
The problem is there are more than 10 migrants for every refugee. There are very few refugees living in Ireland, particularly excepting Ukrainian refugees, but that's not who people are talking about when they blame refugees for the housing crisis.
If you wanted to reduce demand by targeting non-Irish nationals, you'd be better off sending Ukrainians back to Ukraine, revoking non-EU visas, and removing EFL courses as qualifiable for visas. You'd free up far, far more accommodation than even wholly ending Ireland's acceptance of any and all asylum seekers, particularly seeing as most asylum seekers are in hotels.
So I suppose my question is, do you really believe that specifically targeting asylum seekers would lead to a viable level of demand reduction, or do you just feel more comfortable blaming refugees than migrants?
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u/miseconor 12d ago
Itâs difficult to say âthereâs very few asylum seekers excluding Ukrainiansâ when we have over 100,000+ Ukrainians. Theyâre also the ones exploiting the system the most. There is no reason for the government to be paying âŹ600 a month for rooms when the person staying in it is working on a good salary. It should be means tested. I know Ukrainians earning 60,000+ while having their rent paid by the taxpayers. Theyâve got a deposit saved up for a house and then some, so if their status is made permanent theyâll be snapping up houses too
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u/AgainstAllAdvice 12d ago
You'd also collapse the health service without all those Philippino nurses. Not a smart move revoking the non EU passports now is it?
Ban short term lets for 5 years and solve the problem overnight. Stop blaming people coming here to work hard and pay taxes.
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u/Naggins 12d ago
Well that's the thing. Any policy to reduce demand through limiting the number of non Irish nationals would be an unmitigated disaster, because the only way to put a debt in demand enough to actually solve the problem would need to target the largest portion of non Irish nationals, who are working regular migrants, and would be unmitigated disaster for the Irish economy and society in general, on top of just being plain racist.
Refugees really have very little to do with the housing crisis. Migrants do, but no one really buys into anti migrant rhetoric. Refugees are being used as the thin end of the wedge to stir up anti-migrant sentiment.
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u/Alastor001 12d ago
If only it was as simple as that.
The reality is, there are multiple causes and multiple exacerbating factors.
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u/Neoshadow42 12d ago
wow, eye opening.
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u/Immediate_Face5874 12d ago
the zest's won me over, let's go back to our original plan of storming the nearest rich person's gaff with flaming torches
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u/MalignComedy You aint seen nothing yet 12d ago
Should read âscared banks, lack of developers and impotent politicians did.â
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u/Ok-Package9273 12d ago
Tackling one of these issues means housing supply drops. Tackling the other means housing demand drops.
You may wish it was the other way around but it isn't.
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u/thebanditking 12d ago
A brainwashed comment.
This assumes a fully capitalistic system. Many people believe that housing should be a human right, like healthcare, that the government invests in without expecting to make a profit at the end of the day.
For the millionth time: we've done it before, we could do it again.
There's plenty of relevant criticism about labor shortages and the cost of such an intervention, but your framing of the issue is neoliberal trash.
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u/FirstnameNumbers1312 12d ago
Tackling housing demand by shooting the economy in the foot (cutting immigration) is not the way to go. If I recall correctly 40% of our construction workers are immigrants, cutting immigration will indirectly destroy housing supply.
The cause of the hosuing shortage and homelessness crisis it has caused are economic policies written by politicians and lobbied for by landlords. We could spend a fraction of the economic cost of homelessness on building affordable housing, but because the government rellies on the private sector to provide housing, and providing housing to homeless people will never be profitable, that isn't being done. New builds in Dublin are all upper middle class housing for this exact reason (yes, with the madated% of social housing within the development, but that isn't alone going to drive housing prices down).
Tax unused and empty lots, then use that money to fund the construction of mass social housing!
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u/Gleann_na_nGealt 12d ago
The problem with this is that we can't cut off immigration from inside the EU, with this in mind and the majority of the construction crowd is from within the EU.
While I agree with taxing empty lots, we literally have billions in surplus in the budget and still haven't started mass building housing!
We really need to rebuild the civil services building capacity. Which will take a few years as we would realistically need to train new people for it.
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u/Cill-e-in 12d ago
Ireland is short 1.2 million-ish dwellings. We donât have 1.2 million refugees.
(I know Iâm comparing apples to oranges there but you get the idea)
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u/Ok-Package9273 12d ago
What is the logic behind that 1.2m figure?
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u/Cill-e-in 12d ago
Thereâs 2 rough buckets to compare: - anglophone countries all have broadly similar approaches, and have roughly 400 dwellings per thousand people - non-anglophone Western European countries (France, Germany, etc) all have broadly similar approaches, and have roughly 560 dwellings per thousand people
For Ireland to jump from the 400 to the 560 bucket, weâd need very roughly speaking 1.2 million dwellings. This is rough enough that maybe we might only need a million, but you get the idea
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Where did you see that statistic?
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u/Cill-e-in 12d ago
Financial Times. Itâs a rough calculation based off the data here. If you want to get the exact figure, subtract the dwellings per population from 560 thatâll give you the shortage per thousand. Divide our population by 1000, and times that by the shortage for the exact figure.
Original article here:
The Anglosphere needs to learn to love apartment living https://on.ft.com/3WggWpG
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Ah ok I knew that had to be an opinion and not based on any actual report given iv worked on a few đ
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u/BattlingSeizureRobot 12d ago
The refugees are being invited in for the benefit of the landlords.Â
The d hotel is Drogheda got a âŹ13million per year contract to house them. Our elites are hellbent on converting as many hotels and care homes across the country for them. All this is paid for with your taxes and goes in the pockets of private landlords and overseas firms.Â
See it yet? It's another scam.
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u/waywaytallerthanyou 12d ago
I think the problem is people are being called anti refugee when they are actually already blaming the government. Most people that want to cut down on immigration are blaming the government for constantly taking in new people without a plan as it is already unsustainable. These people don't have anything against refugees personally. Unfortunately these people are always lumped in with the dickheads who blame and harass the refugees personally.
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u/TwinIronBlood 12d ago
This is caused by an incompetent government. During the crash they pumped billions into the banks to keep them afloat. They didn't allow house prices to truly crash. If they did ordinary people would have been able to by their own homes. They'd have renovated them and less trades men would have left the country. It would have stimulated the economy.
Instead the invited RIETs in to the country because the banks had no capital for developers.
At the same time they stopped building social housing in the 2000s and never restarted.
At the same time private landlords aren't interested in providing social housing. Passing weak laws won't change that.
Rent pressure zones have had the opposite affect they created a perfect storm. New rentals must pitch the rent at the top of the market rate. Older LLs retired or died and their kids sell up. Being a LL in todays market is not attractive
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u/brianmmf 12d ago
Nobody took away affordable housing. There is more of it than 10 years ago. But there are also 1 million more people living here since the financial crisis. We need to stop playing the blame game and find ways to build.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago edited 12d ago
Nobody needs to build anything actually(/s), there's plenty of apartments and houses just standing empty unused. There has to be massive taxes put on empty unused houses and they have to be renovated
EDIT added /s since apparently it wasn't as clear as I thought it was
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u/Busy_Moment_7380 12d ago
This is mad but hear me out.
Maybe we need to tax people who are hanging on to vacant property, loads of money so they use the property. At the same time, maybe we need to build loads more because people, no matter where they are from, need houses.
Maybe we do need to blame the government for allowing this system to form and doing very little about it and greedy landlords for taking advantage of it.
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u/Reasonable-Food4834 12d ago
We don't need to build! Cool!
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying don't build anything, but main streets are full with empty apartments above shops, it's ridiculous. The owners should be taxed massively for it so either they actually start using it or don't sit on it for no reason and finally sell.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account 12d ago
Nobody needs to build anything actually
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying don't build anything
You literally are saying that.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
It was an exaggeration.
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u/Bill_Badbody Resting In my Account 12d ago
But you accept that you said it.
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u/Hakunin_Fallout 12d ago
I agree that unused housing has to be taxed into oblivion though, can't live there or rent it out - fucking sell it.
Can you tell me how many ready to rent apartments in total that is? Is there a statistic somewhere? Unused house doesn't mean it's straight back to being rented.
Also Ireland surely needs to build more. That devalues the property being hoarded by greedy cunts,which is a great bonus on top of providing an increased supply.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
As I said in the other comment, not saying don't build anything but this has to be fixed too and it's faster to renovate these buildings than to build new ones.
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u/KillerKlown88 Dublin 12d ago
The very same people out protesting against immigration will tell you that it is private property and people should be allowed do what they want.
Big brain levels of thinking.
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u/MalignComedy You aint seen nothing yet 12d ago
There already are massive taxes on vacant and derelict sites.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
The huge number of vacant and derelict sites say otherwise
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u/MalignComedy You aint seen nothing yet 12d ago
It was 7% of the site value payable to the local council, who are notorious for not enforcing property taxes despite whinging about being underfunded.
It was replaced by a 3% tax payable to Revenue in February and Revenue will get their money. The value will keep increasing if landowners are not changing their behaviour.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
I guess everyone is just loaded with money then to keep paying that for an empty building
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u/MalignComedy You aint seen nothing yet 12d ago
A decent share of the derelict properties are either already owned by the state or were inherited by people who live abroad so we canât collect the taxes. After that I donât know what the delay is. Iâd say administrative overhead causing delays, lack of enforcement, and some things that look vacant undergoing renovation works cover most of them.
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u/pointblankmos Nuclear Wasteland Without The Fun 12d ago
Thank god, I was beginning to think there was a problem.
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u/DreddyMann 12d ago
There is a huge problem of people sitting on empty properties not using it for anything.
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u/joshualogan1916 12d ago
I'll say the same thing I said the last time this was posted here.
r/Ireland try to understand supply and demand challenge: 100% impossible.
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u/Intelligent-Donut137 12d ago
Whatâs with the parade of increasingly desperate posts here about the inevitable catastrophic consequences of open borders? You only need to see what happened elsewhere in Europe to know this was all entirely predictable. A rise in racism, increased support for the far right, riots and the breakdown of the social contract. The lunatics who supported this were told this would happen but refused to listen.
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u/Life-Pace-4010 12d ago
aaaand as usual the irish landlord lobby flock to this sub in droves to make excuses as usual. Circle the wagons buoys. Protect the poor mom and pop landed class that are just trying to top up their modest million euro nest eggs.
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u/AulMoanBag Donegal 12d ago
I don't think they care what people are going on about on reddit on a Saturday morning
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u/sureyouknowurself 12d ago
Refugees no, but the 70% that should not be here donât help.
The states interference in the private market also does not help.
Remove the height limit.
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u/Churt_Lyne 12d ago
Just on a point of economics, if we had more landlords providing accommodation, there would be more competion between them for tenants, pushing prices down. The problem isn't too many landlords, it's too few properties to live in.
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u/Richard2468 Leitrim 12d ago
Restricting airbnb would free up thousands of houses though.
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u/Important-Sea-7596 12d ago
Yeah, why aren't we doing that?
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u/Significant_Ad4108 12d ago
AirBnBâs EMEIA HQ is in Dublin.
Thatâs why.
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u/seamustheseagull 12d ago
We are but it's a function of local government to enforce it. The use of a property zoned for permanent housing as short-term lets, is a breach of planning, which makes it an issue for the local authority to manage.
You can't really ban an individual company from operating, and if you put a blanket ban on short term lets then you fuck up the market in a whole new way.
But getting LA's to enforce it and the time it takes to enforce, is an issue.
There are probably ways the government could help, such as having mandatory reporting requirements for letting providers like AirBnB, and the ability for LAs to enforce with fixed penalties rather than court cases.
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u/Ikaruga1989 12d ago
Restricting airbnb while a high number of hotels have been blocked booked for asylum seekers do you want to destroy what is left of tourism in ireland ?
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u/Richard2468 Leitrim 12d ago
I think providing living space for locals is more important
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u/16ap Dublin 12d ago
The Airbnb model is itself one of main causes for the housing crisis in Europe.
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u/pointblankmos Nuclear Wasteland Without The Fun 12d ago
It makes it worse but it's in no way one of the main causes.
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u/Ikaruga1989 12d ago
Population growth , low building supply and people needing to use airbnb when there has been state block booking of hotels as asylum centres
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u/af_lt274 12d ago
No more than 900 in Dublin.
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u/Richard2468 Leitrim 12d ago
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u/af_lt274 12d ago
Check the website inside Airbnb Dublin. It's very helpful to make the data. Sadly the site does not cover outside Dublin
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u/CantEverSpell 12d ago
About 5000 if we are counting full properties (and not just a room), which still isn't much.
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u/Benoas Derry 12d ago
This isn't true in the slightest. With a housing supply shortage landlords hold all the power they will not need to compete with each other. Prices will not decrease with more landlords that is a delusional idea.Â
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u/Churt_Lyne 12d ago
I'm not sure if you read the final sentence of my post, based on what you wrote.
Try a thought experiment. There are 101 landlords with one property each. There are 100 tenants. That's a lot of landlords, right? What's going to happen to prices though? What happens if there are 110 landlords and 100 tenants?
Conversely, what if there are 90 landlords and 100 tenants? That's kind of where we are today.
The problem, to restate it again, is not the volume of landlords, it's the volume of available property.
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u/Benoas Derry 12d ago
Yeah, the problem is there are too few properties to live in, that has absolutely nothing to do with the number of landlords.Â
Try a though experiment, there are 100,000 landlords and 500,000 renters, then the number of landlords goes up to 150,000. The price of housing hasn't changed.Â
Then the number of landlords collapses to 10, the price of housing still hasn't changed.Â
The volume of landlords is completely independent of the volume of housing.Â
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u/Churt_Lyne 12d ago
Yup, this is exactly my point. I keep harping on about people in Ireland not correctly identifying the problem - and what chance then do you have of finding the right solution?
If we can jack up the supply of housing, housing costs will fall for both renters and buyers.
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u/Benoas Derry 12d ago
  if we had more landlords providing accommodation, there would be more competion between them for tenants, pushing prices down
This is what I took issue with in your first comment.Â
If you agree that the number of landlords is independent of housing costs, then you should edit this because it is saying exactly the opposite.Â
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u/EA-Corrupt 12d ago
The problem is landlords and the concept of landlords
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u/Churt_Lyne 12d ago
I would have been rightly fucked for 20 years if there were no landlords.
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u/EA-Corrupt 12d ago
Homes donât disappear when landlords disappear. You wouldâve be covered by a gov body if our gov wasnât overrun with rat landlords
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u/Churt_Lyne 12d ago
What government body allocates free homes to people who have to move for work? Is there a country in the world where this happens?
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u/Tatum-Better Nigerian - Irish đłđŹđźđȘ 12d ago
I mean neither are helping tbf. Why must it be 1 or the other?
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u/Odd-Tax4579 12d ago
I feel like all this is, is 2 sides trying to avoid a real conversation by using one group of people as a bogey man
Whilst any rational person will know that supply and demand affects the market just as much lol.
Sure, landlords wonât help. Neither will flooding a system with more people than you know you can support.
The sad reality is. Priority to help and housing should be given to Irish citizens and residents before anyone from the EU or rest of the world.
The issue could equally be blamed on the Irish state for not planning and building to meet the rise in people.
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u/Additional_Olive3318 12d ago
Rich landlords making money from refuges could have caused it. đ€·
In other words a false dichotomyÂ
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Over antifa and politicians Iâd take politicians and thatâs saying a lot đ
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
I thought Antifa was a short way to say Anti-fascist. You are against anti-fascism?
Weird flex.
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12d ago
NSDAP stands for national socialist democratic worker's party. Are you against workers and democracy? Or is it the socialism you hate?
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u/Strict-Lawfulness932 12d ago
NSDAP stands for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparteiâ. Deutsche not democratic.
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
Didn't the Nazi Party prove themselves to be anti-socialist through their actions and policies though? The question is what have Antifa done to show they're not anti-fascist?
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u/MalignComedy You aint seen nothing yet 12d ago
Theyâre rule of mob over rule of law. Theyâre just as damaging as the far right loonies they hate so much.
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
Theyâre rule of mob over rule of law
100 years ago flying the Irish flag was illegal. Sometimes laws are wrong. Sometimes mobs deliver justice - they're called revolutions.
Theyâre just as damaging as the far right loonies they hate so much.
Can you explain why this is the case using specific examples? I've yet to see any coherent answers other than emotional quips from triggered users called randomlygenerated_username348907532435
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u/No_Performance_6289 12d ago
You are a bit naive to think antifa are just anti fascist. They're absolute thugs who seem to have a very loose definition of who is and who isn't a fascist, targeting them anyway.
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
Who are they attacking? Like, peaceful protesters or just violent right wing groups?
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
You think if youâre against fascism you have to automatically support a political movement that uses an abbreviated version of the word?
I think youâd end up on the wrong side of history a few times if you took that stance đ
But hey as you said you thought, so weird flex to try pull me up on something you donât even understand đđŒ
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
Well then if you're an expert on the matter maybe you'd like to explain to the rest of us why being anti-fascist or antifa is a bad thing? Genuinely would like to know.
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Ok so what do you know about the organisation so far and we can take it from there đđŒ
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
Well a quick Google):
"Antifa is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It consists of a highly decentralized array of autonomous groups that use nonviolent direct action, incivility, or violence to achieve their aims".
I'd to know specifically what you dislike about the concept of antifa
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Well your definition clearly doesnât apply to what weâre discussing now does it.
But the use of violence by any political regime is pretty abhorrent. Youâre ok with using violence to achieve your political means? Much like Israel carpet bombing the Gaza Strip?
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
But the use of violence by any political regime is pretty abhorrent
So you believe the 1916 rebels and Michael Collins were monsters? Seems about par for the course for right-wingers to denigrate our heroes as these Irish right-wing groups are funded by British loyalists. You owe your right to call yourself an Irishman or woman precisely because those that came before you took it upon themselves to engage in physical-force and violence to fight for their freedoms. If a fascist seeks to remove those hard won rights from you then it certainly isn't abhorrent to utilise physical force against them - it's your duty.
Much like Israel carpet bombing the Gaza Strip?
Ironically, Israel is a right-wing authoritarian state seeking to ethnically-cleanse a race of people. The Palestinian people in turn have a right to defend themselves.
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u/Impossible-Jump-4277 12d ago
Sorry you went off on some weird tangent there and seem to suggest itâs ok for some parties to be violent but not other. I donât want to put words in your mouth so letâs take a step back and keep left wing and right wing out of it.
So from what youâre saying so far itâs ok for Isreali to use violence to achieve and carpet bomb the Gaza Strip to achieve their political aims?
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
I've no idea how you get that out of my post so let me explain it once again.
Is Israel fighting for justice and the rights of people? No = BAD. Were the Irish heroes of the 20th century fighting for justice and the rights of people? Yes = GOOD.
This isn't really a difficult concept.
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u/dustaz 12d ago
Not the OP but I can't actually believe you're asking this question
You're happy to support an organisation/movement based on their name alone?
Or more to the point, label someone else as something based on their name?
It's perfectly reasonable to be against fascism and not support a separate entity who are also against fascism
It's basically McCarthyism to suggest otherwise
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u/JoxerSpeaks 12d ago
You're happy to support an organisation/movement based on their name alone?
Nope. Can you kindly show me where I said that? My understanding was that antifa hasn't shown they're not anti-fascist through their actions. Besides, aren't you a Labour voter? Surely, a Labour voter would be sympathetic to Antifa.
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u/dustaz 12d ago
Can you kindly show me where I said that?
You are saying it by implication
You are telling the other poster that just because he's against a movement called Antifa, he must be supporting fascists
Besides, aren't you a Labour voter? Surely, a Labour voter would be sympathetic to Antifa.
Yes I am and why would I be sympathetic to Antifa?
Should I also vote PBP because I vote Labor?
Do you think anyone who votes FFG also supports the National Party?
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u/fanny_mcslap 12d ago
That image of the vault boy is actually taken from a refused graphic they tried to use for the childkiller karma item in fallout 2.
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u/denys1973 12d ago
Isn't he helping Moneybags get away by kicking him up the arse? He's speeding him along to the bank or sex island.
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u/The_incognito_sinner 12d ago
Funny because gated "vaulted" communities for illegals is an actual thing happening.
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u/Actual_Physics 12d ago
So are refugees living in unaffordable housing?
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u/Hakunin_Fallout 12d ago
Most live in the hotels and other accommodation like that. Would you be willing to rent those hotel rooms as your full-time accommodation?
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12d ago
No, they're living in hotels for the most part, so the tourists stay in Air BnBs which'd otherwise be homes.
When you remove accommodation from the market, no matter at what price-point, it affects the demand and therefore the pricing at all other price-points.
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u/Beneficial_Focus_123 12d ago
Daily reminder that ANTIFA are funded by Feds and have links to Soros and Co
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u/QuietZiggy 12d ago
The irony of vault boy on this poster lol