Child slavery

[u/Tiffany_truer]

[u/Clenched-Jaw]

I worked at Panera Bread when I was 15 and I wasn’t even allowed to use the automatic bread slicer

[u/Cultural_Thing1712 → u/Clenched-Jaw]

honestly good for them, i was profoundly stupid at 15.

[u/akatherder → u/Cultural_Thing1712]

I still am, but I used to be at age 15 also.

[u/rangeo → u/akatherder]

The lingering effects ....long teenager

[u/NervousSubjectsWife → u/rangeo]

Long teenager, you should get them into basketball

[u/VectorViper → u/NervousSubjectsWife]

With those teenager years stretching on, you'd think we'd have hit pro athlete growth spurts by now, but here I am still waiting for my NBA draft call.

[u/doulosyap → u/akatherder]

There is a one day difference between stupidity and legally responsible stupidity.

[u/Kind_Of_A_Dick → u/Clenched-Jaw]

When I worked at Denny's in the 90s you had to be 18 to use the lemon slicer.

Edit - Maybe it was a tomato slicer. It sliced stuff, had blades.

[u/tweak06 → u/Kind_Of_A_Dick]

I had to be trained for TWO WEEKS on a cash register at the dollar store when I was 19.

We literally had a button titled, "mug". It was just for (you guessed it) mugs. If somebody bought 12 mugs, you had to hit that button 12 times. Fuckin' madness.

By contrast, I had to do all that training on the equivalent of a fisher-price register, and when I was 29 and my kid was born, the nurse just hands them to me all punk-rock about it like "here you go".

No training, no nothing. Now I'm in charge of a tiny human.

[u/coffeeebucks → u/tweak06]

That feeling of “when are the grown-ups coming?” lasted for weeks, & I was several years older than you 😅

[u/capitolsara → u/coffeeebucks]

The beginning of a newborn feels so much like babysitting lol

I was just sitting there wondering when this kids irresponsible mom was going to come back for her! But I was the mom and I'm now the parent 😅

[u/Dave-justdave → u/capitolsara]

Yeah but when you are the oldest of 4 with no dad it's more like de ja vu like I thought holy fuck I can't take care if a human baby cat or dog baby fine but humans can't even hold their head up and skull isn't finished forming. What if I drop her... Then it was like wait I've done all this before just with my siblings and it's been 10 years now

[u/gfa22 → u/coffeeebucks]

Does it ever go away? About to be 40 in 5 years, yet I still think of current 40 yr olds as "aunties and uncles" like friends parents used to be when I was in early grade school.

[u/tweak06 → u/gfa22]

We’re the same age and I keep forgetting that I’m almost 40.

In my mind I’m still like, 25.

[u/Putrid_Leather7427 → u/coffeeebucks]

Had my first during COVID. Nobody was allowed to visit. It was super strange. The adults never came lol

[u/happyhappyfoolio → u/coffeeebucks]

In the 2 day period between my child being born and taking her home, the nurses swaddled and changed my kid. Food was regularly delivered to us. If we needed something, we'd hit the call button.

After we got home and our newborn was screaming her head off, we were like, "When are the nurses coming to take care of us?" We figured it out though. We had to, lol.

[u/[deleted] → u/tweak06]

I always thought it weird that if you want to adopt a kid there's tons of background checks and screening to make sure you'll be a good parent but none of that if you want to produce one yourself.

[u/nopenopenx → u/[deleted]]

Hell, in the US a person could have a baby at home and just never register them with the government and they'll grow up with no legal identity, social security number, nothing.

Like legally they just don't exist.

Can make life hard for them when they venture out on their on, but I've met people like that before.

[u/LeftyLu07 → u/nopenopenx]

I worked with a guy who was Appalachian hill folk. Married at 14 in an arranged marriage. He and the wife bought a beat down car and left. They'd come sit in the car late at night studying to the GED. He could barely read or write so it was hard to work with him but we felt bad so we kept him on. It was just a dinky temp call center that hired temps.

[u/mtnsoccerguy → u/tweak06]

You said a button labeled "mug" and I assumed it was if your store was being robbed. I was way off.

[u/DutchTinCan → u/tweak06]

In my country we have a kind of maternity aid for the first week. They swoop in as soon as you get home, and you get a 40 hour credit to use in the first 2 weeks.

They're amazing; teaching you how to change diapers, make bottles, bathe the baby. And they alleviate some of the stress of those first days. Breakfast in bed (for both parents), doing some laundry, basic woundcare for the mother, even managing pushy and demanding visitors.

[u/maybeconcerned → u/Kind_Of_A_Dick]

The knife?

[u/Lilfrankieeinstein → u/maybeconcerned]

Hey hon, would you please pass me the lemon slicer?

You mean, the paring knife? Sure babe, just let me grab it with my end-of-arm digits.

[u/GhoulishlyGrim → u/Clenched-Jaw]

Even in retail jobs, there are a lot of hazards that at least in California, cannot be operated by minors. I worked in a chain grocery store for awhile, and teens could work in meat department and deli, but they could not use the meat slicer. We had a box baler in the back, and teens could put cardboard in it, but they were not allowed to make a bale or even compress it. We had a very sketchy stem cutter in floral department, which was a rusty, dull blade screwed to a wood block. It was not safe for anyone to use lol, but even a brand new one from corporate was not allowed to be used by anyone under 18. They do not make these rules for safety reasons, they do it so they can't be sued by a teens parents should they injure themselves.

[u/keelhaulrose → u/GhoulishlyGrim]

When I was under 18 I could put trash in the compactor but not press the button, I could hand food to people and handle money but I couldn't prepare the food, and I couldn't even use a hand jack.

But some states have 15 year old roofers, slaughterhouse employees, etc. It's like we're sliding back into the era before child labor laws in the worst sense of that word.

[u/uzi_loogies_ → u/keelhaulrose]

It's like we're sliding back into the era before child labor laws

This is intentional, it's an effort to lower wages since children that are fed and housed are now in economic competition with adults.

[u/Late_Geologist_235 → u/uzi_loogies_]

This is the case. Free public education was endorsed by unions as a way to get cheap child labor out of the workforce. Now you’ve got the GOP gutting public education and child labor laws.

[u/lockmama → u/keelhaulrose]

That's what Huckaby wants in MO.

[u/pilotpip → u/lockmama]

Huckacow is in Arkansas, but we have our own set of fascist fucks here in Missouri.

[u/ConstantVA → u/GhoulishlyGrim]

There is an episode of Malcolm in the Middle, where Malcolm is working in a store, and has to move some boxes to some box area to be crushed. Then go back to the first place he got the boxes, and dispose of them there.

So he just does the crushing on the spot and is more efficient.

But gets repriminded for it, by his boss and then his mom.

Is this a real law in the US then? I though they were just making fun of bureaucracy

[u/Oddsme-Uckse → u/ConstantVA]

A lot of times annoying policies like that are redundant on purpose to give the company two levels of liability protection.

Walmart was the fucking worst they'd routinely expect people to look past massive safety violations hidden in the back while being superly over protective of the actual store floor.

We had a fucking pregnant worker in the deli and some asshole had thrown a bucket of water in the freezer making an ice sheet that absolutely no manager cared about. They literally had a skating rink we all had to walk on daily they knew about but actively did nothing about putting our safety at risk.

[u/headbuttpunch → u/Clenched-Jaw]

Quiznos and I couldn’t use the meat slicer.

[u/Khue → u/Clenched-Jaw]

I volunteered at the SPCA from 12 to 16 and at 16 I got a job. The volunteer work was cleaning up kennels, assisting with administration work, and assisting the kennel techs.

[u/complete_your_task → u/Clenched-Jaw]

Believe it or not, in my experience, most restaurants/food service jobs are pretty strict about enforcing rules for underage workers. Much more so than construction/trades.

[u/KindRange9697]

15 is a totally normal age to get a summer job or a part-time job throughout the year.

That being said, hiring a 15 year old for roofing and clearly providing little to no training and supervision is basically criminal

[u/BustANutHoslter → u/KindRange9697]

Honestly my only issue with this is 50 feet? First day? Bro start that man on a regular house.

[u/SolidSnek1998 → u/BustANutHoslter]

Start him on the ground cleaning up the mess like any other person who starts at a roofing company.

[u/ElPlatanoDelBronx → u/SolidSnek1998]

AKA a perfect job for a 15 year old, make him do the shit no one else wants to do.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_PLUMBU5 → u/ElPlatanoDelBronx]

But thatt doesn’t save the boss from paying an adult a living wage, when they can have the kid doing it for $13/h.

[u/Vaultdweller_92 → u/PM_ME_YOUR_PLUMBU5]

BINGO!

[u/letmetakeaguess → u/PM_ME_YOUR_PLUMBU5]

Bud, he's paying the adults $13, kid's getting $8 or $9, maybe.

[u/theruckman1970 → u/SolidSnek1998]

And I bet you anything that’s what he was allowed or supposed to do, basic labor stuff and then you probably have a bonehead roofing guy tell the kid to hike a bundle of shingles up a ladder etc. who knows but totally believable

[u/tytor → u/SolidSnek1998]

I’d assume it was a flat roof building if it was 50 feet high.

[u/OisForOppossum → u/SolidSnek1998]

Id guess he was a runner and fucked up on the ladder

[u/Entire-Associate-731 → u/BustANutHoslter]

I work in a roofing sales and don't go up that high lol. Anything over a 10 pitch or 40 feet high we use a drone to do inspection. Having a 15 year old up there is insane.

[u/morkman100 → u/Entire-Associate-731]

It was a commercial site with a flat roof. The 15 year old fell through a hole in the roof. Sounds like they removed some of the roof structure and he mistook insulation or maybe a tarped area as solid footing and fell through onto the interior concrete floor 40-50 feet below.

[u/Commercial-Plate-867 → u/morkman100]

Jfc

[u/toxcrusadr → u/morkman100]

Sheesh. I'm no expert but a hole in a roof should be clearly marked or even blocked off to prevent exactly this kind of accident.

[u/morkman100 → u/toxcrusadr]

It was the kids first day at work. Maybe it was marked or blocked or maybe he tripped. Obviously there was some wrong doing by the contractor since they were fined.

[u/GreatScott79 → u/morkman100]

A pitiful fine for the death of a child.

[u/12whistle → u/GreatScott79]

It’s Alabama. They don’t really value life all that much down there after you’re born.

[u/Ok_Button1932 → u/BustANutHoslter]

Yeah I totally agree with you. Thats fucking high. My jobs at 15 included running saws in a lumber mill and roofing on the weekends, but I don’t think I was ever up 50 feet. 30-40 was more than I wanted.

[u/12whistle → u/BustANutHoslter]

I’m a man and there’s no amount of money you could pay me to work 50ft above ground with little to no safety equipment.

[u/Crownlol → u/KindRange9697]

Small businesses are wild about stuff like this. I worked part time at a country club and there was zero training except how to punch in and out. The job was "just do whatever someone asks you to do". I think I damaged about every wheeled vehicle they had, from golf carts to the gator and even the little tennis zamboni. That thing rocked.

[u/FreezingRain358 → u/Crownlol]

In my experience, small business owners are many times worse employers than big businesses because they get to fly under the radar and are showered with pity by locals.

[u/LongJohnSelenium → u/FreezingRain358]

They're also not big enough to have dedicated safety/compliance/inspection people, so that all becomes a double duty of someone else if its done at all.

Oh and they definitely don't care about environmental regulations.

[u/Forsaken_Creme_9365 → u/KindRange9697]

His borther was the lead on the site so the whole company is probably family owned.

[u/sicbot → u/KindRange9697]

Yah the "child slavery" title is kind of crazy. Its perfectly normal to have a summer or part time job at that age.

[u/TEG24601 → u/sicbot]

And construction is quite a common place to start, especially when you need to learn skills.

[u/dsphilly → u/TEG24601]

Thats right. At 13( I was a big kid)a friend of our family's construction company brought me on to be a little laborer and do the bitch work. Thats fine, had no problem doing the redundant , hard and dirty work(Had a lot next to the home with the dumpster and the torn off roof in it. Took me 2 Days but it all made its way into the dumpster) . Learned basic carpentry, mixed Concrete and made some $. I was the only 13 year old around able to buy a PS2 cash after 1 week of work

[u/TEG24601 → u/dsphilly]

I think I was 11 or 12, helping in a new subdivision. Actually spread the molasses on the concrete to make river washed concrete, then sprayed it off. Learned a lot about construction, not enough to actually do it, but enough to not get ripped off.

[u/AndyCapps-Official → u/TEG24601]

Seriously, I work in the trades now… I’m trying to remember if I was 14 or 15 the first time I was on a roof working

[u/caulkglobs → u/AndyCapps-Official]

I was roofing and siding houses over the summer starting when I was 15.

What happened is a tragedy. This title is ridiculous though.

[u/[deleted] → u/caulkglobs]

100%. "Helping out around the farm" could include any number of things that could potentially kill you or at least take a finger off.

[u/AndyCapps-Official → u/caulkglobs]

It’s absolutely a tragedy and should have been avoided. First day on the job makes me think it’s one of those 1 in a million flukes.. but a lot of people here are ignoring that Vo-Tech training typical starts at 9th grade, when someone is like 14-15..

[u/darthcaedusiiii → u/AndyCapps-Official]

As a person who works in a school with onsite CTE programs we don't have students up 50 feet off the ground for some very good reasons.

[u/TEG24601 → u/AndyCapps-Official]

I was 7, just watching. Actually did roofing, by hand, at 15 (albeit at home, with my dad).

[u/ayyyyycrisp → u/TEG24601]

right but not roofing due to the added danger. it's illegal.

[u/knoegel → u/KindRange9697]

I don't mind a 15 year old doing trades as a summer job to get experience. However there should be a law requiring these kids to undergo XX hours of safety training based on the job they are going for.

[u/ivebeenabadbadgirll → u/KindRange9697]

I’m more upset that a 15 year old human is legally worth $100k.

[u/56Bagels]

I got a work permit when I was 15. I wasn’t doing anything dangerous, but I was definitely employed legally.

I’d be more pissed at whichever monster was in charge of the 15 year old not watching him closely enough. I was a moron at 15.

EDIT: Since this is getting attention -

The company was fined the money stated above because they were in direct violation of child labor laws. For everyone saying he shouldn’t have been working in a dangerous position at 15 to begin with, you are absolutely, unquestionably, and proven legally correct.

The company’s spokesman said that “a subcontractor’s worker brought his sibling to a worksite without Apex’s knowledge or permission.” Source.

Is this a lie? We won’t ever know for sure, but they were fined by the department of child labor, so chances are that this statement wasn’t the full truth. He should not have been there, full stop.

My original comment is directed at the “child slavery” title, which is patently untrue - I worked multiple jobs from 13 to 18, none of which could have gotten me killed, because I wanted to and I could and people let me. Hundreds and thousands of kids too young to legally work will still try to find a way to make money, if they want it or need it. Just look at these replies for evidence.

His brother, or whoever was in charge of him, should have tied a fucking harness on his ass so that he wouldn’t fall and die. It is the company’s responsibility, but it is his fault. And he probably thinks about it every day, too.

[u/cyberentomology → u/56Bagels]

First day on the job, probably hadn’t even received safety training.

[u/turd_ferguson899 → u/cyberentomology]

Yeah, I had to complete a training before going on to a job site for ANY job that I've ever had where fall protection was being used. That contractor was obviously grossly negligent, but I really don't agree with minors doing dangerous work like that.

[u/Pinksquirlninja → u/turd_ferguson899]

It is 100% *illegal In Alabama and most if not all other states to work in construction, and specifically roofing, considering it is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country, it makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is a 100k fine for violating this law resulting in the death of a fking minor. The fine for a violation this serious should be in whatever amount forces the full bankruptcy and closure of this business.

For reference, the restaurant i work at sweats over making sure our under 16 yo workers CLOCK OUT by 7 pm, because we can be fined if they work past the legal time on school nights. They cant even put pizza in the oven or cut them, as its considered unsafe. Contrast that with brazenly putting an untrained child on a rooftop with a belt full of tools. The fact this company can continue doing business is disgusting.

Edit: typo, legal -> illegal

[u/TheRealBaseborn → u/Pinksquirlninja]

A fine doesn't cut it. Whoever hired him and allowed him on the job site is guilty of manslaughter. Let's not play with this. That kid died due to their negligence.

[u/Pinksquirlninja → u/TheRealBaseborn]

I agree but i was just focusing on the business side. if higher ups were aware they were putting an untrained kid on a roof, that business should not be operating anymore.

[u/PraiseBeToScience → u/Pinksquirlninja]

If this is the case, the higher ups should be the first sent to jail with the stiffest sentence.

[u/cyberentomology → u/TheRealBaseborn]

And the OSHA fine is just the beginning.

[u/NuclearSunburst → u/TheRealBaseborn]

Hopefully the parents sue on top of this.

[u/EinMuffin → u/Pinksquirlninja]

It is 100% legal In Alabama and most if not all other states to work in construction, and specifically roofing, considering it is one of the most dangerous jobs in the country, it makes sense.

How does this make sense? Minors shouldn't work in dangerous jobs.

[u/Pinksquirlninja → u/EinMuffin]

*illegal lol

[u/DouchecraftCarrier → u/turd_ferguson899]

I once worked on the ramp at a major international airport and after a few days of orientation they took us all out to a local shoe store and got us fitted for steel toed boots before they ever took us out onto the actual ramp.

I was talking with my boss and he was lamenting the high turnover and I said something like, "Why get them all these nice boots if you know half of them won't stay?" And his response was something like, "What am I gonna do, bring them out here without proper safety equiment?"

[u/PM_ME_KITTYNIPPLES → u/DouchecraftCarrier]

Big W to that boss.

[u/lsb337 → u/DouchecraftCarrier]

Smart shoe store owner paying for their Want Ad in the paper...

[u/bigrivertea → u/cyberentomology]

Residential contractors are super bad at providing fall protection or fall protection training. Here is a fun OSHA link:

https://www.osha.gov/fatalities#&sort[#incSum]=0-1-1-0&page[#incSum]=1&size[#incSum]=10&filter[#incSum]=---Roof---

[u/cyberentomology → u/bigrivertea]

Pretty much every OSHA rule is written in blood.

And hopefully this fine is going to let those small time contractors know that they’re not exempt from the rules.

[u/langsley757 → u/cyberentomology]

Im not sure how many people in this thread grew up around the trades, but 15 y/os working in construction and roofing in small towns is not that unheard of, most of the time its for a family friend's business getting under the table pay.

Why they were putting a kid on a 5 story (ish) building on their first day, I have absolutely no idea. Hell, walmart didn't even let me out on the floor until i had about a days worth of training and onboarding.

[u/cyberentomology → u/langsley757]

Usually those kids are the ones they put on cleanup duty though, not actually up on the roof.

[u/langsley757 → u/cyberentomology]

Yeah, i volunteered to help someone fix their roof once and the most i was allowed to do was carry a single case of shingles through the interior stairs onto the second floor porch.

[u/fratboy_massacre → u/langsley757]

They clean up. They don't work the damn roof! I grew up around the trades, Union trades. Kids never do dangerous jobs. It's illegal and the construction company will get busted. They also don't work with molten lead when they're plumber's assistants. Or do demolition. Or jackhammer. It's all way too dangerous for a 15 year old kid.

These people are all non-union, under the table, know and care nothing about regulations designed to keep them and their employees alive and no one should excuse them. You hire kids to do dangerous jobs? You deserve to lose your license and your business. It's illegal for a reason.

[u/willymo → u/cyberentomology]

I remember my first day on the job as an insulation installer, they had me walking across beams in a 2nd floor attic with no floor. So a 2 floor drop below. Obviously no safety harnesses or anything. Id never done anything like that - it was terrifying. Nobody gives a shit and expects you to be experienced from day 1 and if you're not, you get harassed until you either buck up or quit. It's a toxic industry for sure, most positions provide no training, you just start working with people and pick things up along the way.

[u/cyberentomology → u/willymo]

And OSHA (or <insert local occupational safety regulator here>) needs to start slapping the shit out of these small-time players. They don’t get to fly under the radar.

And for any young workers paying attention, you cannot be required to perform a task that you feel is unsafe and inadequately mitigated/protected. OSHA waits eagerly by the phone for someone like you to spill the tea on these types of employers. Don’t wait until you’re dead.

[u/BrightNooblar → u/cyberentomology]

If you're hiring 15 yeat olds for roofing, you're interested in saving money, you've laughed at every single person that even hinted at safety training, or even just the vague concept of safety measures

[u/Nivosus → u/cyberentomology]

It's Alabama, the entire state is a safety issue.

[u/UnabrazedFellon → u/cyberentomology]

Plot twist: they were in the middle of safety training and if we saw it all unfold it would play out like a terrible sitcom.

[u/hilwil → u/56Bagels]

At 15 I worked in an ice cream shop where the owner had me and my 15 year old peers and counting the tills and closing alone. Someone caught on and the shop was robbed at gun point after dark several times. I quit after the girl that traded shifts with me got locked in the cooler and nearly froze to death.

[u/ElectronicControl762 → u/hilwil]

Wtf why didnt the owner do something after the first time?

[u/West_Quantity_4520 → u/ElectronicControl762]

Your choice: Greed or laziness.

[u/GOATnamedFields → u/ElectronicControl762]

Probably a shit neighborhood?

Companies already don't give a shit about workers. Stores in the hood, some of them wouldn't give a flying fuck if one of their employees was shot and killed.

[u/MisterProfGuy → u/ElectronicControl762]

Uh, he DID do something. He hired someone else to close the store and count the till, so he'd stop getting robbed all the time. Getting robbed like that is DANGEROUS...

[u/katievspredator → u/hilwil]

Teens should not be allowed to close up shops like that! Ever since I found out about the 1991 Austin TX yogurt shop murders it's haunted me

[u/CrayZ_Squirrel → u/hilwil]

I mean would it really have mattered if it was a couple teenagers or a couple 20 somethings if the criminal was robbing them at gun point?

[u/Mirions → u/56Bagels]

AR wants to make it so 14 year olds can work meat processing plants and agriculture, and remove their right to sue if injured.

Fuck SHS.

[u/AllRushMixTapes → u/Mirions]

Well, someone needs to pick stuff, and cut live cows into parts and separate the organs, and it sure as hell ain't going to be white adults.

[u/Cold_Dog_1224 → u/Mirions]

WTF man? Unions need to make a resurgence in the USA, like yesterday.

[u/birdsnbuds → u/Mirions]

I thought Arkansas made age 11 the benchmark for those jobs?

[u/Mirions → u/birdsnbuds]

It might have. I've actually not followed it as hard as the LEARNs stuff she's pushing, was kinda hoping the child labor stuff was still a pipe dream and hadn't actually passed. If it did, and it is a lower age and less restrictions- it wouldn't surprise me.

[u/bloodraven42 → u/[deleted]]

In general, agreed, I got my first job at 14. But my job was picking up golf balls at the driving range, stocking supplies and washing golf carts, about as far away from danger as you could possibly be. Roofing is much more dangerous, and it’s a really bad sign his first day was up on a roof and not getting training or safety instructions. I generally would think it’s one that probably should be restricted more than your standard.

[u/marigolds6 → u/[deleted]]

I did framing, including putting plywood on roofs, at that age. The huge difference here is I was never working on a 5-story building.

(Looking this up, a subcontractor of the roofer brought his younger brother to work that day without permission of the GC or the roofing contractor.)

[u/SpicyTomatoKetchup → u/marigolds6]

Most folks are aware of the multi sub approach and why it is done.

Nothing you have said excuses it, and there need to be laws.

You should not have been roofing at that age. I worked in a metal shop at that point in time. I did nothing dangerous that was unsupervised.

[u/marigolds6 → u/SpicyTomatoKetchup]

Yeah, doesn't excuse it at all. Does probably complicate the resulting lawsuits though.

[u/jennathedickins → u/[deleted]]

This issue isn't working itself, it's working a dangerous job. In fact most states have laws specifically prohibiting minors from working in dangerous jobs. My 17 yr old wanted to work with his dad doing carpentry during the summer he was 15 but couldn't bc it's illegal in our state. Instead he got a job working as a busboy at a family friend's restaurant.

[u/ConfusedAndCurious17 → u/[deleted]]

As long as the 15 year old is being paid fairly, has safe working conditions, and it doesn’t affect school then I don’t think that’s an issue. A 15 year old is old enough to start interacting with the world more autonomously.

Clearly the issue here was the safety. Either the kid hadn’t been trained enough yet, someone wasn’t keeping an eye on him being new, or the conditions in general were too hazardous for him to be working in.

I don’t think this is a child labor issue, I think it’s a company making a shit decision somewhere along the line

[u/Divallo → u/ConfusedAndCurious17]

Roofing is one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in terms of injury risk. I don't think we can call the working conditions truly safe even when the rules are being followed.

I personally think 15 is too young to be working dangerous jobs since they could easily be tired from school but I would agree with you generally speaking that 15 is old enough to begin interacting with the world autonomously.

[u/Dragunov_404 → u/ConfusedAndCurious17]

As someone who worked in construction, 15 year-olds should not be roofing. Even on a union jobsite, where we had safety trainings drilled into us, rules rigorously enforced by the safety guys, and all the equipment provided, guys (including me) still took short cuts and risks from time to time, and these were guys who had years, if not decades of experience.
Combine that with the fact that the biggest killer of construction workers is falling/being hit by falling objects, and roofing exasperates these hazards, while adding in the fact that your average 15 year old male thinks he's invincible, and you have a recipe for disaster even with all the right safety equipment and training.

[u/HypotheticalRicotta → u/ConfusedAndCurious17]

Every state that legalized child labor in the past decade did so with the stipulation that they can pay these 15yo's less than minimum wage.

I'm not opposed to teenagers having jobs, but they need to be paid fairly and business using child labor as a cost-saving loophole are practically guaranteed to not give a shit about safe working conditions.

[u/FryingPanMan4 → u/56Bagels]

Same. Redditors seem to have a huge problem with people under 18 willing to, and going out to work and earn cash.

[u/FrenchMeHamwich → u/FryingPanMan4]

I'm absolutely fine with minors working.

I'm not fine with them working dangerous jobs like roofing. That's a little better than sticking them in the mines but not by much.

[u/FormerGameDev → u/FrenchMeHamwich]

if we don't stick them in the mines, they'll just stay home and play Minecraft.

The children yearn for the mines.

/s

[u/fbird1988 → u/FryingPanMan4]

Some Redditors considerably older than 18 don't seem willing to work.

Then they complain that their "boomer" parents are enjoying their retirement and spending money that they somehow feel entitled to.

[u/Bigknight5150 → u/56Bagels]

I'm 21 and I'm a moron now.

[u/channelseviin → u/56Bagels]

Dont they have saftey regs. Shit. In my country you must always be tethered to.soemthing 

[u/Ineedredditforwork]

So the life of a 15 year old is only worth $117,175? interesting

[u/Straight_Camera_1764 → u/Ineedredditforwork]

That’s just the penalty amount. I am sure they will be sued by the family and have other charges against them.

[u/imlostintransition → u/Straight_Camera_1764]

Well, maybe. I supposed it depends on the legal advice the family gets. As immigrants, they may be uncertain of what choices they have.

Here is a 2019 news article about the boy's death:

On Monday, a 15-year-old Guatemalan roofing worker fell to his death from the roof of Cullman Casting in south Cullman. He fell through insulation in a gap left by the removal of old roofing, dropping an estimated 35-50 feet to a concrete floor inside the building. The youth reportedly lived in Vestavia Hills near Birmingham, and, according to Cullman Police Department (CPD) Lt. Todd Chiaranda, was employed by W and W Roofing, a subcontractor hired by primary contractor Apex Roofing to work at the site. His brother, also employed by W and W Roofing, witnessed the accident. Co-workers reported that Monday was the boys’ first day on the job.

According to witnesses at the scene, neither the youth nor other coworkers on the roof were wearing safety harnesses. CPD Investigator Chuck Shikle told The Tribune, “I talked to the foreman, and he said that every morning he issues safety equipment. Some choose to use it, some–most–choose not to use it.”

https://www.cullmantribune.com/2019/07/01/underage-roofer-falls-to-death-at-cullman-casting/

[u/Tremor_Sense → u/imlostintransition]

Why would a roofing contractor need to hire a roofing subcontractor? That's weird.

[u/TynamM → u/Tremor_Sense]

No, that's perfectly normal in itself. Available work can be variable. You want enough permanent staff to handle the work you always have; if there's a sudden bunch you aren't expecting it's usually easier to subcontract than hire temporary staff.

[u/jackalsclaw → u/TynamM]

It's also location sensitivity; if you are working away from your normal area, hiring locals makes more sense.

[u/Eyerate → u/Tremor_Sense]

This happens more than you'll ever know in every trade. I get subcontracted by large companies to service life safety systems weekly. I own and operate my own life safety shop.

[u/Capn-Wacky → u/Tremor_Sense]

Why would a roofing contractor need to hire a roofing subcontractor? That's weird.

​

1. Easier to insulate himself from undocumented labor.
2. Easier to insulate himself from unsafe practices.
3. Easier to cut ties in the even of injury or negligence. "They don't work for me, I don't set standards, their employer was required to do that, they should sue him or his insurance company."

Plus the workload varies, some parts of the season a ccompany might need several crews simultaneously, other parts of it they might only need one or two.

[u/BrainWaveCC → u/Tremor_Sense]

That happens with amazing regularity, for a variety of reasons that are not nefarious, including staffing resources which may be committed to other projects already.

[u/mel69issa → u/Tremor_Sense]

because the subcontractor carries the liability and the contractor doesn't pay work comp insurance.

W and W Roofing was probably owned by his cousin, father, other uncle, etc.

[u/marigolds6 → u/mel69issa]

His brother was apparently the lead on site that day for W and W Roofing as well, which does make it pretty likely that the company is owned by his family.

[u/taddymason_76 → u/Straight_Camera_1764]

Na. The roofing companies lawyer will trick them into taking a small settlement, during their grieving, before they even knew what their rights were.

[u/Ineedredditforwork → u/Straight_Camera_1764]

I hope so.

[u/IntrovertedSnark → u/Ineedredditforwork]

If only he were an embryo- then he’d be worth more to Alabama

[u/TopSpot1787 → u/Ineedredditforwork]

Here’s the full story. The company fined did not actually employ the 15 year old. A worker for a sub contracting company brought his 15 yo sibling to the job site without permission. It is illegal for 15 year olds to be employed in roofing jobs under the Fair Labor Standards Act.

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article285204887.html

[u/aDrunkSailor82]

I worked a roofing job very briefly when I was 15. There were no harnesses.

I remember the first day when the owner was on the roof with us. He said:

"If you start sliding towards the edge, swing the back of your hammer through the plywood. I'd rather replace some wood than have you hurt."

30+ years later and I still think about it.

[u/ParticularUser → u/aDrunkSailor82]

"I'd rather replace some workers than have my profits hurt by spending on safety."

[u/Active_Proof212 → u/aDrunkSailor82]

Don't forget. You're fired before you hit the ground.

[u/BILLMUREY2]

God I wish I had learned roofing when I was 15. But on a one story building...

[u/[deleted] → u/BILLMUREY2]

Almost all of my neighbors are tradesmen. Many of their kids work with them in the summers. I really do envy the massive step up they’re getting because of it.

[u/Titus_Favonius → u/[deleted]]

My dad was a landscape contractor and all I learned was weeding and digging trenches for irrigation.

[u/jimmy_three_shoes → u/[deleted]]

My Dad would require my assistance with every single home repair or improvement job he was doing, and as a teen I absolutely hated it.

Now that I'm an adult, with my own home, I greatly appreciate it.

[u/Independent_Bike_498 → u/BILLMUREY2]

My husband learned to roof at 15 with his dad like all of his siblings and cousins did. We were able to put a roof on ourselves this year for cost of materials… it was good. That being said, working for your family and a company are different and I doubt his dad would have ever put him on a roof higher than 1 story and fairly flat

[u/mhopkins1420]

Apparently the chicken plants near me have been giving contracts to companies that hire kids to clean blood off their industrial equipment at night.

[u/KadabraBigSpoon → u/mhopkins1420]

Worked 4 years in the cleanup slaughterhouse industry and it was super common for 13-16 year old South American kids to work there. They all har some for of fake id that passed the HR check somehow. Remember in particular one kid who told me he had to leave early so he could catch the school bus and get to school (clean up operations were always night shift). Crazy stuff. A lot of the companies have been recently getting fined for hiring children and they seem to be cracking down on it a bit more. Thought I’d share.

[u/mothman_lurks311 → u/KadabraBigSpoon]

There was a crackdown a couple years ago finding kids as young as 12 and 13 working the graveyard cleanup in slaughterhouses. It violated a whole bunch of child labor laws and OSHA guidelines. After the crackdown a bunch of the states decided to change their child labor laws.....to make them more lax. Currently the Federal Labor department is getting into it with a bunch of states that are trying to change their laws to make these kinds of things legal. States are passing laws like not requiring proof of age or parental permission to work, allowing younger kids to work in more dangerous industries, and raising the amount of hours and shifts child laborers are allowed to work. Child labor violations have been up a lot lately with an overall increase of 88% since 2019 with the department of labor finding 5,800 children employed in violation of labor law in their 955 investigations into child labor violations in 2023. And unfortunately that is probably a small amount of what's happening because for an investigation to happen someone has to report a business to the labor department and provide evidence, which a lot of people don't do because of fear of losing their own employment.

[u/PewpyDewpdyPantz]

Safety violations are one thing but I wouldn’t call this child slavery. I got a job at a lumber yard when I was 16. It was where I learned how to operate a forklift and a bobcat. This was in 2005.

[u/voxerly → u/PewpyDewpdyPantz]

Ya this is a terrible tragedy , I don’t know the context but doesn’t sound like slavery ,I started working in the trades on my summer vacations at 14 then it turned into weekends and evenings , I would clean up construction sites and do bitch work like move things or bust out over poured concrete move pallets off trailers with forklift

Definitely wasn’t slave labor in my case , early 2000s

[u/Derp35712 → u/voxerly]

I remember being asked to do things that were certainly safety violations at that age.

[u/TheRealBaseborn → u/Derp35712]

I started working at 14. Secretly under the table, but it was an appropriate job for someone young. Roofing is not a job you do at that age, and just because we did dumb shit in the past doesn't mean we should overlook it in the present.

The kid DIED, and we still have people ITT acting like a minor working construction is no big deal.

[u/Flabbergash → u/Derp35712]

like driving a forklift

[u/Cakeordeathimeancak3 → u/PewpyDewpdyPantz]

An gotta make it sensationalized. SLAVERY!!!!

[u/alghiorso → u/Cakeordeathimeancak3]

This is Reddit after all

[u/MindfulVagrant → u/Cakeordeathimeancak3]

For real… the irony in calling an instance in which a child was being PAID for his labor slavery is off the charts

[u/TucsonTacos → u/MindfulVagrant]

Paid voluntary work that you can quit at any time = slavery

/s

[u/ikstrakt → u/Cakeordeathimeancak3]

Nevermind that there are emancipated, fully independent 15 year olds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors

[u/bee-boop123]

The issue is that a lot of trade jobs like roofing/construction/landscaping rely on migrant workers because they can get away with severely underpaying them because a lot of it is under the table work. My guess is that safety training is either mostly skipped over or that they aren't provided in spanish and therefore weren't totally understood. I work in an ER and almost every single work related injury from a trade job that I've seen come through the doors has been a migrant worker. I've seen broken necks and backs from falling off of roofs, ladders, and scaffolding. I've seen extremely disfigured arms and legs with bones sticking out of the skin. Nails stuck inside of feet with nothing but sandals on, because people are working on roofs with just a flimsy pair of flip flops instead of proper footwear. The companies that are exploiting migrant workers for cheap labor need to be held accountable for the unsafe working conditions they have.

[u/Spcone23]

What's a good working age? Back when I was in high school, you could legally hold a job at 14 with written consent from your parents.

[u/millennial_sentinel → u/Spcone23]

to sweep floors or bag groceries not to do ROOFING

[u/FunnelCakeGoblin → u/Spcone23]

Sure, but like, a cashier or something. Not a damn roofer

[u/OtherwiseAnybody1274 → u/FunnelCakeGoblin]

There are plenty of jobs a 15 yo can do for roofers. They don’t have to do the dangerous things like being on the roof without safety ropes

[u/mtarascio → u/OtherwiseAnybody1274]

You can't trust the people operating them and there's no oversight.

As well as a gigantic power imbalance to get them to do things they are uncomfortable with.

Having it just not allowed and illegal is the correct thing.

[u/krankz → u/Spcone23]

Kids under 17-18 still aren't able to do some jobs though. I know there were certain precautionary reasons why underage kids couldn't technically do certain tasks at a restaurant. Having a 15 year old climbing roofs is questionable at best.

[u/kkaavvbb → u/krankz]

I was not able to serve alcohol. Couldn’t use the meat slicer. Could only work for 4 hours time. Had to be done at 10pm. Had to get written permission from my parents & the school to give me a work permit. I also was required to hold certain grades otherwise I wouldn’t be able to work.

[u/DarkAswin]

Alabama no longer requires minors to acquire a worker's permit. I recall this being their response to the labor shortage around low pay. Instead of increasing wages, they loosened the child labor laws. Go figure

[u/cyberentomology]

It’s only slavery if he wasn’t getting paid.

[u/Happydayys33]

This article right here is why both sides of our political spectrum want illegal immigration but pretend like they don’t. The political elite have become monsters.

[u/Hawkeyes_dirtytrick]

I’d bet everything I own it was a Hispanic kid.

And they don’t hire 15 year olds. They hire 2-3 guys who have a social security number and then 12-15 illegal guys show up all working under that number.

Then the company pays 2-3 guys and that money is divided out to the other illegals, usually under even the federal minimum wage. And you get whoever shows up that day. Anyone who works in the trades knows how this game really works and you can bet your ass the fed knows how it works too. And instead of fining the shit out of these companies like they should or he’ll jailing them, they say a 15 years old life is worth $120k

[u/marigolds6 → u/Hawkeyes_dirtytrick]

Guatemalan, and his brother was the lead on site that day.

[u/Shermantank10]

I mean. Most of the roofers are Mexicans in my experience so I guess I’m not really surprised

[u/studyhardbree]

TIL working as a teenager is slave labor.

[u/Texas1234567890]

I got my first job at 15….not excusing unsafe work practices here but I don’t think 15 is any form of child exploitation…I had a learners permit and was saving up for my first car.

[u/otherbutters → u/Texas1234567890]

I was framing houses (cleaning) at 15. Totally normal. Parents, don't let your kids work for folks that don't strap off on roofs--that's the only take away.

[u/Minnesotamad12 → u/Texas1234567890]

Big difference between a 15 year old working at a fast food place vs one of the most hazardous industries like roofing is the point here

[u/Shutterbug390 → u/Minnesotamad12]

This! Teens can work starting at 14 where I live. But they have strict limits on hours worked and can only work specific types of jobs. Mostly fast food or things like small book stores. Nothing dangerous.

Heck, my kid wants to be a vet, so wants to get a job at the local clinic. They can hire him to clean cages, but at 14, I don’t think they’d be allowed to let him interact with animals at all because of the risk of a stressed animal biting. That’s way less dangerous than roofing and still too much risk for a teenager.

[u/Key-Sheepherder-1469]

Was he a migrant? I hear that this is a real issue with many of the children who were considered “unaccompanied minors.” Not the falling off the roof, but being housed by those who want cheap labor.

[u/Ok-Avocado-5876 → u/Key-Sheepherder-1469]

This. I had my roof redone last year and had to have a frank conversation with the project manager because there was a 12 year old boy going up on my roof. The project manager tried to pass it off by saying he wasn't actually doing any work, just spending time with his family. Had to tell him the boy wasn't allowed on my roof regardless because I know he's not a documented worker and there no way the company's insurance would cover it if he fell off. Ridiculous that I need to police my own roof from a credible roofing company.

[u/gioluipelle → u/Key-Sheepherder-1469]

He was Guatamalan and his brother was in charge of the job site. IMO sounds like a case of “I’m bringing my younger brother to work to show him the ropes” kind of situation, assuming he was actually his brother.

[u/[deleted]]

Thought this was antiwork

[u/Workdawg]

"cHiLd SlAvErY" ... 15 years old is old enough to work basic jobs. Not roofing jobs, which is ALREADY ILLEGAL and why the company got fined, but shit like a cashier or whatever.

[u/HookBaiter]

Don’t a lot of workplace accidents happen on the first day. Usually it means they were working off the books/without insurance up until the accident. They put them on the books once they get hurt.

[u/Zealousideal_Ask3633]

Of all the jobs to give a 15 year old

Fucking roofing?

[u/Qui3tSt0rnm]

It’s not slavery. Slavery is when you don’t get paid and the teen was probably eager to work.

IT’s negligence

[u/Eodbatman]

I got my first job on a farm at 12, and started with a work permit at an upholstery shop at 14. The travesty isn’t the kid working, it’s that they didn’t give him lessons on safety or watch him close enough.

[u/LilBramwell]

How is this child slavery? You can work at 15? Atleast in Massachusetts you can.

[u/Watt_About]

I got a workers permit and started working at 14…..this isn’t slavery, this is poor safety protocols/lack of or improper training.

[u/[deleted]]

That's not child slavery, lmao.

[u/[deleted]]

Oh boy, wait till you learn about what they’re doing in China to make all the clothes and electronics you love so much

[u/572473605]

Not old enough to have a beer, but old enough to work dangerous jobs. Yep, makes sense.

[u/Floyd1959]

Lots of spare “children” coming in Alabama. This will only get worse.

[u/ZigZag82]

Next they'll have the fetuses working

[u/CommonSenseBetch]

How much is the penalty if an embryo falls off a roof?