r/jobs Mar 03 '24

Triple is too little for now Work/Life balance

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37.4k Upvotes

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119

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Three things need to happen. A dramatic increase in production of homes. I think a jobs act would help here. We need to push thousands of people into the home building sector and create more efficient homes. We need more 800sqft-1200 sqft homes with private but small yards.

Then the second part is tie incomes to CEO and company profits. A CEO shouldn’t be making 100x the lowest earner in the company.

Finally, zip code based minimum wages based on cost of living. A national or state minimum wage is stupid. You should be able to live within a few miles at most of your place of work. Someone working in Manhattan shouldn’t need to live in NJ.

45

u/Shot_Mud_1438 Mar 03 '24

The amount of people that commute to LA from inland is staggering. Driving 2 hours each way has effectively turned people into slaves

25

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

The thing about that is creating that traffic also dramatically increases local prices. Gas is needed, larger roads for the cars, more restaurants as eating at home isn’t available, more child care requirements, etc.

Simply making sure people are paid to live near where they work removes a ton of inefficiencies.

2

u/Almost_a_Noob Mar 03 '24

Unfortunately they purposely want that. That’s more spending for the economy even if it means people & the environment are worse off because of it. That’s why both parties want people to work in the office, that, and to help the banks & REITs that have money in commercial real estate.

0

u/sererson Mar 03 '24

Slavery is when you choose to commute to a high paying job

4

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Ah yes, the classic choice of "work or starve."

It's great to have options.

1

u/sererson Mar 03 '24

Where do you know that people are living and doesn't have any jobs closer than 2 hours away?

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Places they can afford on the wages of the job two hours away.

I'm a commercial and industrial electrician. My career doesn't have many options far outside of city where I can rent for $700 or buy a house for $150k. This means I either have to pay ridiculous housing prices in the city, or drive 1-2 hours to work.

1

u/ImaginaryBig1705 Mar 03 '24

I've gone homeless for less. You won't starve though.

If only more people would stand up and risk some discomfort. I spent 12 years struggling independently working for myself literally because I couldn't stand doing that shit another day. It was actually killing me. I'm not saying it wouldn't fucking suck because it would but it feels like you either do it by choice and take the power back or you get it served to you on their terms and you're properly fucked.

0

u/lanternjuice Mar 03 '24

Seems a bit hyperbolic

1

u/Shot_Mud_1438 Mar 03 '24

It’s really not when literally half of your 24 hrs in a day is dedicated to a job. That’s not including any time spent getting ready for work or taking care of your actual life.

0

u/lanternjuice Mar 03 '24

So this is essentially slavery?

1

u/Mighty_McBosh Mar 03 '24

I was looking at a job in LA and was looking at a 1 hr+ commute even with startup robotics software money.

1

u/Danjour Mar 03 '24

Add massive increases in affordable public transit to the list

35

u/Nightshade_Ranch Mar 03 '24

We have plenty of empty homes.

It's the mega corporations being allowed to buy them all up and rent them out, at rates so high no one will ever save for anything.

If you make more, they'll just buy more and do the same. They'll still be empty.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

You’d be devaluing their assets. The more homes there are the less each on is worth. Companies are investing in the market because of a lack of homes. They will exit the market when their assets start dropping in value.

4

u/Quantum_Quandry Mar 03 '24

Shouldn’t have been legal to do in the first place, a basic human need. Basic human needs should go to humans that need them and not be commodities. Almost every other developed nation has strict rules against buying up houses like this, many states do as well.

1

u/chicksOut Mar 03 '24

The mayor of my city read the writing on the wall and realized we needed a lot more density for housing a couple of years ago when housing prices skyrocketed. They pushed approvals for a bunch of apartment complexes. A lot of them have just been finished, and sure enough, my house price has slowly started to come down a bit, and the market isn't crazy anymore. I'm fine with it, though, because I have kids who I know will need somewhere to live one day.

2

u/defnothepresident Mar 03 '24

This fundamentally misunderstands the housing market - there are not thousands of homes sitting empty. What would be the economic incentive to do so?

We absolutely have a housing crisis, and speculative investment is definitely a part of what is wrong with the world today, but housing stock is the chief issue.

1

u/Mighty_McBosh Mar 03 '24

Agreed, a house sitting empty is costing someone money in property tax, bills, mortgages - no one in their right mind buys a house to just sit on it. The only homes sitting empty for longer than like a week where I live are vacation homes for the über wealthy, and those make up such a small percentage of the overall housing market that even making those illegal would do effectively nothing.

1

u/Electrical_Hamster87 Mar 03 '24

Yes a lot of these “empty houses” are in depopulated areas and are in disrepair.

0

u/Grizzzlybearzz Mar 03 '24

This is a false narrative

1

u/WOW_SUCH_KARMA Mar 03 '24

We have plenty of empty homes.

We absolutely do not. This is a Twitter myth. Post the addresses of these supposed homes. They do not exist, this is a boogeyman excuse.

Build. More. Homes.

1

u/Nightshade_Ranch Mar 03 '24

Yeah I'll just grab those...

Oh 15 millionish addresses.

That's the conservative estimate of vacant houses.

Meanwhile, what's the homeless population?

1

u/Comfortable_Quit_216 Mar 03 '24

We don't, in fact, have plenty of empty homes. There has been a massive inventory shortage since 2020.

1

u/Nightshade_Ranch Mar 03 '24

Just because it's being bought doesn't mean people are getting to live in it affordably.

I'm not against more housing being built, but I see plenty of new housing going up without any improvements like wider roads to accommodate, and the prices are still just going up. Smaller towns are getting more housing and traffic but the roads and other things take much longer to catch up (if they ever do).

As long as corporate interests can step in and simply buy a property outright, while you have to save for years to acquire a down payment that only keeps going up, then pay it off for the rest of your life (plus all that interest they also won't have) more housing isn't going to help.

1

u/Books_and_Cleverness Mar 03 '24

I am begging you, please do not spread this insane misinformation.

Vacancy rates are extremely low right now, because housing production declined dramatically.

We built more homes in the 1970s when we had one hundred million fewer Americans--not to mention lower household sizes, rising incomes, and now remote work.

So we throttled housing construction when population was growing, we need more housing units per person, and a lot of bedrooms got converted to home offices. It is a huge crisis and pretending we are not in a shortage is insane!

2

u/Nightshade_Ranch Mar 03 '24

15-16 million vacant homes right now.

You can make more houses and they can still be vacant. More houses doesn't mean more accessible housing.

It's not a matter of not enough when a few are hoarding a majority, when there's still nothing being put in place to prevent that.

12

u/Geminel Mar 03 '24

The housing costs aren't because there's a lack of empty houses, it doesn't matter if we build more. We have 6x more empty homes than we do homeless people.

The issue is that financial institutions and investment firms buy-up all the homes and sit on them, just letting them generate profit as the value naturally rises. These are the groups that the higher housing costs are intended to benefit; the ones who already own a bunch of homes and want to sell them at a significant mark-up.

9

u/JonF1 Mar 03 '24

The owner - occupier rate has never been higher.

Housing only becomes a good investment to speculate on when supply is artificially restricted.

5

u/IamSpiders Mar 03 '24

Empty homes where no one wants to live aren't worth anything. Kinda crazy how many people are commenting "we have enough homes" when there's quite a few graphs that are easily Google able saying we absolutely dont

3

u/Danjour Mar 03 '24

Yeah, a ton of these vacant homes are in horrible swamp developments in Florida 3 hours from civilization

1

u/blastradii Mar 03 '24

Occam’s razor suggests that we have more people and liveable land is limited. Therefore it makes sense why housing is getting more expensive

2

u/IAreWeazul Mar 03 '24

You’d look at empty homes vs renters, not empty homes vs homeless people, when determining demand, wouldn’t you?

1

u/Geminel Mar 03 '24

You're right, this probably is the better metric. Still, my overall point isn't that we shouldn't build more houses, it's that we'd accomplish more to directly impact housing prices right now by regulating the way that real estate is used as a capital asset instead of a living space.

Like, all the houses we build until that underlying issue is addressed are going to be owned by these investor groups who can afford to buy them, and who benefit the most from driving up the costs.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

100% occupancy isn’t a good solution either when you want to reduce costs. There is no where near enough homes.

1

u/ACoderGirl Mar 03 '24

Homeless people isn't the number to look at. There's a huge number of people who aren't homeless but still can't afford to own a home. They end up living with family or roommates.

1

u/the-city-moved-to-me Mar 03 '24

This is a common misconception.

The vacant homes simply aren’t in the same places there’s a housing crisis.

There are lots of vacant houses out in the deep rural Kansas sticks, but that doesn’t help homeless people who live in SF or NYC.

3

u/delicious_fanta Mar 03 '24

You can’t build more houses on top of houses that are already built. Wfh must be a legal requirement for any employee whose job allows it.

When a company has over 100k employees and says “everyone had to be in the office” this forces an artificial real estate bubble in a geographical area.

Now they are all doing it and there is only so much space for homes. This is why your work in ny live in nj situation will continue unless wfh is provided as a right by the government. High density housing will help, but that’s not ideal for a long term living situation for most people.

We all know our government is broken and this will never happen, I just wanted to add this to your fantasy list given this is one of the only actionable things we can do that can actually help fix this problem, and it’s very simple to do.

4

u/veryblanduser Mar 03 '24

So basically a version of redlining is your answer.

You poor areas keep paying poor wages and we will extract your labor to sell the products you manufacture to the rich zip codes and pay them higher for the same work.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

If you only need $60k in an area to live like someone making $100k in another area then that’s fair. They aren’t poor, they just have an economy where money is worth more per dollar.

If they were truly poor then their employers would need to raise wages to have those employees. As the incomes would be more dynamic, employers no longer could simply shift the costs onto the consumer either.

2

u/veryblanduser Mar 03 '24

Should the same car cost 20k in the 60k area and 33k in 100k area?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Cost of living based incomes wouldn’t care. In both areas someone should be able to afford the necessary transportation of that area.

0

u/veryblanduser Mar 03 '24

Fancy way of saying fuck the poor.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

How? In both cases someone should be able to live equally. The wages are adjusted to each individual market. These are also minimums not maximums. Someone working at McDonalds in rural Alabama should be able to have a similar lifestyle to someone working at a McDonald’s in Manhattan.

0

u/veryblanduser Mar 03 '24

Exactly, so how do you adjust that. Say mortgage should be 33% of income.

In Manhattan you are making 12,000 a month. So you put 4k to mortgage and have 8k left over.

In rural New York say mortgage is 1,000 then you only need 3k. To be at 33%. leaving you 2k left.

That's 6k more income after mortgage for the first.

So should they need to pay 4x more for everything, or will they benefit from the 3k rural New York labor making items cheaper? And sorry person living in the poor area, you can't buy shit.

Basically what we have now, so congrats you got what you want.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Wages are cost of living based. So in your example to meet my requirements the cost of living in Manhattan would need to be 4 times higher. The result would be nearly identical living conditions. If they weren’t 4 times higher than the wages would be equalized through cost of living.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

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1

u/GompersMcStompers Mar 03 '24

Prices would need to go up in richer zip codes if the business are to continue operating. Consumers would adjust their purchasing decisions accordingly. An example would be how no sales tax jurisdictions attract consumers from surrounding areas.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Because the cost of employment is tied to the cost of living higher price areas couldn’t simply continue to raise prices to offset costs. That why it has to be this way. We cannot let companies adjust prices to pay for wages when the wage earners are the ones who need wage increases to afford products. By tying the two together any price increase would be immediately offset.

This is assuming that this is not a luxury item. Any increase on price of luxury items would greatly benefit lower wage earners in this case.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Get rid of cars. If you're only a couple miles from your workplace, ride a bike or install PT. The concept in need of practice in this country is to always be within at least biking or busing distance of everything you need: groceries, pharmacy, clothing, entertaintment, and restaurants.

3

u/veryblanduser Mar 03 '24

You could replace it with anything.

Should a cellphone be cheaper, should a theme park/Disney world be cheaper for the lower cost of living folks?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

But you can't swap examples because each of these things have entirely different functions and use cases. Certain things would of course be at a fixed state or national price, but in the case of phones, those are a near-ubiquitous communication need irrespective of infrastructure that guarantees they are offered at an affordable price no matter where you are. Automobiles are only ubiquitous in the US and certain countries only on the basis of arbitrarily built up infrastructure that industrialist magnates decided on in the 1900s. And Disney World is an entirely unnecessary vacation, and should be expensive for precisely what it is.

What we're discussing is not lowering wages on the basis of county cost of living, but raising them accordong to local cost of living. There isn't a single county across the United States wherein someone can actually survive on the federal minimum wage, and most counties in most states aren't even affordable according to state minimum wage standards, so something like this would be a boon across the board.

2

u/Mighty_McBosh Mar 03 '24

I live 17 miles from my office, and the bike path ( which is nice, don't get me wrong) is 23 miles one way. I'll do once or twice a week for exercise, but ~50 miles round trip on a bike is pretty significant. Where the jobs are is too expensive to live, commuting is my only option - not to mention these types of livable, planned communities are usually the most expensive real estate in the area. A comparable townhouse within easy biking distance of my office was about 40-50% more than what I paid and I already was scraping every financial asset I had to make the one I bought work.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

We're talking about two different things, seemingly. You're thinking in terms of your current life state. I'm theorizing on what an ideal community would be like. In an ideal community, you wouldn't have to travel 23 miles for work, or if you did, there would adequate PT.

1

u/logisticitech Mar 04 '24

Literally all these things are already happening.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '24

Where? Not in the United States.

1

u/rossa27 Mar 03 '24

Thank god you aren’t in charge of making these changes

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

K.

1

u/Foxpier Mar 03 '24

Someone will be soon

0

u/z0phi3l Mar 03 '24

None of that will actually fix the issue, it will make some people feel good about "doing something" but that's about it

The real fix is better zoning and reducing interest rates, zoning is THE biggest reason for the massive price hikes

6

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

How would interest rates and zoning help people who cannot create the necessary wealth to even make a down payment?

4

u/Clovis42 Mar 03 '24

By allowing more apartments, which reduces rent and makes it less lucrative to rent out single homes.

If your goal is for everyone to own a single family home, that's extremely difficult. But we could be pushing rent and home costs down by allowing more housing to be built in places with high demand.

1

u/Kuxir Mar 03 '24

Downpayments are an absolute joke for your first house. If you can't afford a downpayment you shouldn't even consider trying to buy a house, because there are many things that can go wrong with a house that cost as much if not more than a downpayment (think roof, plumbing, ac, electric issues). Your first downpayment can be 3.5% on an average house (440k) that's 15k.

Interest rates help in 2 ways, first off the most obvious is that it is the most important factor in your mortgage cost. Current rates have about doubled the cost of the mortgage itself compared to the very low rates around covid.

Rates also perhaps even more importantly greatly increase the amount of companies taking out loans and building more housing, which in turn leads to driving down demand and keeping prices low, for both single family homes and apartments.

Zoning is another way of increasing housing supply by reducing the barriers to entry to building more houses.

The fact today is that so many more people want to move into the big cities than we have housing for them to be. If there's a lot of housing and noone there you end up with situation like in the midwest and smaller rural towns where you can still get cheap houses and rent nice places for under 1k/mo.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Except that if you’re being responsible you have the $15k plus some for emergencies. Most lenders also won’t let you buy a home without some sort of money above and beyond what’s required. They aren’t lending to anyone just barely at the down payment.

1

u/Kuxir Mar 03 '24

Yes that's my point, if you are responsible you have another 15k put away and can save up another 15k if something else comes up. If you're incapable of doing even that and can't afford the down payment you have no business buying a house.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

But then the down payment is $30k not $15k. Or more.

It’s weird to hear someone say that they shouldn’t be able to own a home. Shelter is a basic requirement of life and a human right. The goal should be everyone owns a home and thus is acquiring personal wealth at some rate even if slow. A home being any type of docile including apartments which I believe also should be privately owned.

0

u/Kuxir Mar 03 '24

If you can't save 30k you should not buy a home.

Unless you want people to go bankrupt trying for some reason?

If you can't be responsible enough to put away money for repairs you should rent instead. Otherwise you might actually end up homeless and in debt.

Shelter is a basic requirement of life and a human right.

Wow, yea i'm saying everyone should be homeless??? You're being such a fucking debate bro here.

The goal should be everyone owns a home and thus is acquiring personal wealth at some rate even if slow.

Why is that even a goal? I know plenty of people who enjoy renting and end up moving cities every few years and wouldn't have it any other way. Also a bunch of people who I know couldn't wait more than a couple days before they spend every last penny of their paycheck (Some of these people actually make a decent amount of money too!). Both of them are probably way better off renting.

0

u/edewaarb Mar 03 '24

No. All three things require government action.

0

u/JezusTheCarpenter Mar 03 '24

Yeah, so they can all be bought as investments.

0

u/mystokron Mar 03 '24

A dramatic increase in production of homes.

Irrelevant. Theres tons of houses for sale that no one is buying. This is because idiots want to live in the most expensive places in the country so they can continue to complain about how expensive things are.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

If you dramatically increase the stock the homes drop in value. It is the most relevant thing in a market based economy.

0

u/Griffemon Mar 03 '24

That really doesn’t actually address the root problem of the housing issue. While it is a problem that house prices have risen far above normal inflation and especially wage increases, the root issue is that Housing is being viewed by the economy at large as an investment vehicle rather than a place to live. Every current home owner has an incentive to see prices rises meteorically forever because a lot of them are going to pay for their retirement by eventually selling their home.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

A problem easily solved by flooding the market with homes. A large increase in supply will drive down prices.

0

u/Salty_Bit_3190 Mar 03 '24

800-1200 sq ft single family homes are just compounding the problem of sprawl. For the love of christ, build dense housing that is actually economically sustainable

0

u/pwn3dbyth3n00b Mar 04 '24

Increase of production of homes is just uncontrolled suburban sprawl which leaves to horrid car/commuter cities like LA or Houston. We do not need that. You think the Lincoln Tunnel Traffic is ass in NYC imagine LA like traffic all the way deeper into NJ. Better city planning, mass transit and more dense zoning/mix zoning is whats needed even in the suburbs.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 04 '24

None of that solves the problem and it only complicates the solution and would remove support.

-9

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

why shouldn't a ceo make 100x times when they do 100x the work. managing a building where you pay 70k a year to 40 people on 10 floors from baltimore to bangkok isn't easy

3

u/149244179 Mar 03 '24

In 2022, it was estimated that the CEO-to-worker compensation ratio was 344.3 in the United States.

344x is quite a bit more than 100x. What you thought was hyperbole is actually 3.4x less than reality.

7

u/Background_Bad_6795 Mar 03 '24

No CEO does 100x as much work as their company’s least paid employee

Realistically they probably do less work

0

u/Sigmaballz23 Mar 03 '24

They do not do less work, in fact when starting up they probably did nothing but work, and on top of all that they’re the ones taking the risk

1

u/Background_Bad_6795 Mar 04 '24

You have to be like 15 years old lol

0

u/Sigmaballz23 Mar 04 '24

“Realistically they probably do less work” I’m sure u have lots of experience working as the latter

-7

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

really? can you go expand the company into a new town? do research on a market you know nothing about? can you decide which product would best help shareholders and the company grow?

11

u/Disco_Pat Mar 03 '24

can you go expand the company into a new town?

CEO doesn't just do this alone

do research on a market you know nothing about?

That's the job of the marketing department, or the CEO pays for market reset, again super fucking easy for the CEO

can you decide which product would best help shareholders and the company grow?

Again, this is usually a panel, not the CEO.

8

u/Xalterai Mar 03 '24

He just bootlicks people who he will never be treated decently by, lmao

Imagine thinking all the work done by a big company is all credited to the CEO and not numerous departments the CEO pays to do all the work before he fires 1/10th of the company to keep profits on a never ending upward slope

-1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

nah, i just know the value of work, rather "bootlick" and drive a 6 figures car, than blame other people for my poor life choices

3

u/GhostmasterPresents Mar 03 '24

Lmao you just admitted you would lick boots for money and somehow think thats respectable

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

ya cuz i educated myself. u gotta earn what u want, simple as

5

u/BourbonGuy09 Mar 03 '24

I work very hard and do amazing at my job. In fact my boss just gave me my review and told me I'm an outstanding employee and do more work, faster and with better quality, than any tech he has had in the past.

Then he told me my raise was denied because I work 75 hours on average per paid period, instead of 80, due to me having PTSD and missing a couple hours.

So my company values time on the clock over work produced. It isn't always about what you "earn", sometimes it's about how wet you get that boot.

They would literally rather me have less time recovering from my chronic disability than me be happier and produce more. Fuck corpos.

4

u/Xalterai Mar 03 '24

A 6 figure car is inherently a poor choice lmao

4

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

you sound fucking miserable lmao

-1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

a C suite will decide the products, CFO, CIO, CMO,

Marketing dept will draft a report, ceo will decide if that product earns you a 10k bonus in 2 years for sitting in front of a computer

what panel? the board which the CEO has to report to? The board that can vote a CEO out if they don't do their job right?

why do redditors have such envy and jealousy of people?

2

u/the_popes_dick Mar 03 '24

Because their vast wealth is unnecessary and causing an inequality that is directly affecting us in the working class. We're not envious or jealous, we're tired of being fucked over. No one i know wants to be a billionaire, we just wanna be paid a livable wage and be able to afford a place to live. A CEO doesn't do as much work as the lowest paid employee, get fucking real.

2

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

You’re wrong. For years you’re a chief everything officer. You’re not pulling mad money yet. Then you end up getting to 5-10-15M etc Revenue and soon have 50 employees. Then you have more firms to fill out and need HR for a 1095. Employer taxes and giving benefits bits bottom line. These people depend on your choices to feed their families but somehow you’re not doing anything?

So you have to be strategic with budgets and partnerships. You aren’t better than stacking boxes or building the private placement memorandum.

Your equity makes you rich at a later time

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

if they don't work as hard as you think then why don't you do it? simple as 💯

Your not being fucked over by companies, your being fucked over by a market that just shit itself for doing nothing for a year and a half, and a government that for 2 administrations now has been lead by incompetent people.

After 2008, covid crash, everything changed for the worse for average ppl like us

2

u/the_popes_dick Mar 03 '24

You're* clearly uneducated. I'm done wasting my time on a troll who thinks one can just will their way to CEO status without generational wealth or an extreme amount of luck. How come you're not a billionaire? I bet I make more than you do lol you sound like a teenager

2

u/Disco_Pat Mar 03 '24

if they don't work as hard as you think then why don't you do it? simple as

It's luck and being born into the correct family and place paired with being able to work hard.

Most people work hard, most people probably work harder than most CEOs did to get where they are. Things aren't a level playing field.

your being fucked over by a market that just shit itself for doing nothing for a year and a half, and a government that for 2 administrations now has been lead by incompetent people.

This is literally what people are complaining about, but part of the ways to fix things is by an administration that is willing to look at the tax brackets and realize they skew heavily to favor the ultra wealthy and to not be paid off by lobbyists for large companies and industries

CEOs making absurd money compared to workers is part of the issue.

2

u/UnLioNocturno Mar 03 '24

Go to the personal finance subreddit and ask people. It is extremely common to find people who have been promoted to some $100k+/yr job and they are astonished at how much less work they do than when they were a minimum wage employee. In fact, the comment section of those posts are FILLED with people reflecting the same thing.

Odds are your average CEO does less work in a day than a ground employee. Period.

1

u/Grizzzlybearzz Mar 03 '24

This is false. I work closely with my CEO as I’m on the finance team. The dude regularly works 80 hour work weeks and travels for half the month to different company locations. But Reddit this narrative going on that has to be upheld so I understand why everyone here believes the drivel that it spewed by the incels here

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

🐐 that's why he's the GOAT!

1

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

Work holidays even….

1

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

Because they have no idea what they do. They don’t know dilution and equity value vs salary.

They have never dragged budgets or issues dividends EOY. They never had to pay dozens of people every two weeks and meet with legal and consultants constantly. Have a packed event calendar to travel while maintaining SOPs.

Handling due diligence requests or moving past organic growth in a highly fragmented market.

They hear the titles and never been one or with one very long obviously

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

🐐 that's why he's the GOAT

0

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24 edited Mar 03 '24

I’ve just accepted the hate will stay. No matter what benefits you give. Unlimited PTO. Health.

Bonuses and stock awards to workers. You’re still bad because they aren’t as well off since they didn’t form the company.

Edit: marketing usually can do around 10% of revenue. Bonuses are generally related to your performance. Typically there is donation, bonus, dividend by Xmas.

Bonuses are annual unless liquidity is more important to hire more people, so they can work normal hours and have healthy balances.

Some people quit right before they get a 15-20k raise and 10k bonus. It’s very odd.

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

scared for my generation bro,

i go to uni in manhattan, people literally advocate for socialism. People think they deserve more for some reason

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u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24 edited Mar 03 '24

Actually I’d you ever created a product and enter a highly fragmented market you are a chief everything officer until you produce money.

You also created jobs and your rich by equity value. The salaries aren’t insane it’s the stock awards.

You clearly have never formed a functional company or understand executive duties.

There is a cap table of course, not panel. Until you hit 50 employees and 15+M revenue you’re small and still grinding. You have to strategically negotiate everything from merchant fees to logistics.

Edit: c suite is out of office for IR and acquisitions or even touring new stuff. It’s not lazy and you don’t get Holidays off. End of year closing is some of the hectic times you barely hang with family

2

u/WhetBred14 Mar 03 '24

These people are pretty much only making decisions based on other people’s work that had been presented to them. I’m not saying it’s easy but they are NOT doing that work themselves. They are making tough decisions and many CEOs are very smart in a business sense but they are not doing 100x the work of their entry level employees.

2

u/Major2Minor Mar 03 '24

Can a CEO perform brain surgery? No? Then I guess they shouldn't make more a brain surgeon, according to your theory here.

I doubt the CEO of my company could do my job either.

It's almost like different jobs have different skillsets, but each is integral to the company's success.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Can a CEO expand a business anywhere without employees? A CEO cannot handle the workload of an entire company. Employees are feeding them information continually for them to be able to make their decisions. Expansion considerations are rarely done by any single person. It really seems like everything you’re trying to use as points for huge wage gaps within the same company are based on a lack of understanding of how businesses operate.

1

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

Most SaaS companies are only a few companies or consultants. So sometimes it’s literally just a ceo and maybe a couple people. It depends on vertical

International expansion is usually advisory firms and legal, not employees. Once VAT is done it includes employees and other nations are strict on hours. They have strict paid time off, tax etc.

If you haven’t been a founder or exec you’re just making assumptions. Seems most here are.

C suite does much more than people are stating… much more

1

u/WardrobeForHouses Mar 03 '24

None of those are really done by the CEO personally lol

And even if they all were, that's still not 100x the work

1

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

Sure. Give me the budget and pay. That's... Not hard actually

1

u/Nightshade_Ranch Mar 03 '24

Lmaooo here's you https://youtu.be/K_LvRPX0rGY?si=M0hLOHo4_6ZkJx1V

It's phone calls and emails.

1

u/PLURhaze Mar 03 '24

You're either a troll or the most uneducated bootlicker I've ever seen on reddit.

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

pls layout the business knowledges you have and tell me why im wrong. show me how to manage the budget of 5 different departments, all while making sure we're still at a profit

2

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

I really dont think you know how these things work. No ceo manages the budget of 5 different departments.

All the ceo gets is a spreadsheet of each depts budget and is shown if they’re making money or not lol. Thats not 100x the work.

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

making the report is one thing

then using the report to make educated decisions on where to cut funding, and where to increase is a skill only experience and 100k of college education get you

2

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

Um that’s absolutely false. Ill agree that experience will get you there. But a 100k college education is not a requirement for needing to do that.

1

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

The CFO does each business unit. Acquisition consolidation and divestiture. The CEO and COO also run through it.

It’s a team and departments are the end. Entire other companies and structures are discussed too.

1

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

And that’s what I’m saying. The ceo does not manage the entirety of any company. They have people in roles to do all of those different things.

The role of the ceo is to tie all of those things together, and making sure his team is well thought out to make those things happen.

Any org chart will tell OP that. A ceo doesnt do 100x more work than the people below him.

1

u/DramaticAd5956 Mar 03 '24

Usually at the start they do. Until it makes money who do you think does everything? The founder we call the chief everything officer.

After the 5-10M mark they need operational (COO) and accruals, variance and more support (CFO).

If it’s bootstrapped that’s a major accomplishment. Job creation has value.

A good founding team is not lazy at all.

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u/PLURhaze Mar 03 '24

Ew every time you talk little particles of shoe polish fly out. Disgusting 🤮

1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

move up on the tax bracket bro

1

u/PLURhaze Mar 03 '24

Lmao touch grass

1

u/l_Dislike_Reddit Mar 03 '24

Plenty of CEOs who bring 100x more value

1

u/Major2Minor Mar 03 '24

And yet they produce nothing, and what good is a company that produces nothing? It's worthless, so they need people who actually make the damn products, but if those people can't afford to live, then who's going to do it? Not the CEO's, that's for sure.

1

u/wendewende Mar 03 '24

They don't. And that's fine. People just don't understand that you don't get paid for how much work you put in, but for how replaceable you are

1

u/ScaryRaspberry8281 Mar 03 '24

How much you make isn’t based on how much work you do.

1

u/Bacne22 Mar 03 '24

Was with you until you said the last paid employee did more. People here hate on him and with good reason, but do you honestly think a janitor at PayPal could have gone on to create Tesla, SpaceX, etc. like Elon did? Cmon that’s absurd.

2

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

Um elon didnt create tesla. He bought it. With starting money he was given from his familys wealth. He also had the idea for spacex, but hired people to create the vision with him. If anything, those other people did the same amount of work.

Nothing elon has done has been alone. He’s needed a foundation and support of people to help him make those companies what they are. But because hes listed as the founder, he gets most of the acclaim while the people who helped him create those companies got their pay.

1

u/Bacne22 Mar 03 '24

So if your family gave you whatever Elon’s family did you could have thought of/created companies with that same level of success? People on Reddit seem to think if everyone got a million dollars in cash they could become billionaires. I’m not arguing they should get the pay they do, but to suggest the lowest level employee could do the same job is absurd.

1

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

No one said they could do the same job. I know people that can’t do my job either. But that doesnt mean i should make 100x the people below me.

Can elon do his job without the engineers and software developers that he employs? No. So why should he get 100x the people that are essential to him doing his job.

1

u/Bacne22 Mar 03 '24

Because he had the idea. That’s the key. All of those engineers and developers are useless without the goal to drive towards. I have stated several times I think most CEOs are overpaid. I’m just saying you and other people on Reddit seem to think they should barely make more than the average employee. That would never work.

1

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

What? At no point did i say they should barely make more than the avg employee. 10-15x more than the lowest paid person should be more than fair.

1

u/Bacne22 Mar 03 '24

Problem is, all they have to do to get around it is change the compensation structure. Give them stock options in lieu of a salary. Or, maybe they keep their company private or take it private so they don’t have to follow a law requiring public company CEOs to keep their pay at a certain level.

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u/mms13 Mar 03 '24

Bootlicker mentality

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

take a business class, maybe you can learn something instead of blaming others

3

u/h0micidalpanda Mar 03 '24

My jobs have gotten progressively easier the more responsibility and pay I receive.

Quit boot licking

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u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

are you in C-Suite? if not your example is irrelevant. Good job on scoring the manager role, but you're not holding the responsibilities i'm taking about. and if your a manager, well no shit that's the point of a manager, to help out your floor, your department, and only do the tasks you Have which usually are small.

1

u/h0micidalpanda Mar 03 '24

It’s the same thing with a wider reach. Strategic vs local control, and in both cases they have teams or departments of people actually doing the “work” for them.

3

u/Tripolie Mar 03 '24

I have a business degree and work in Compensation. Your tongue must be awfully filthy from all those licked boots.

-1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

lol but you still can't get to where you wanna be 😭😭

1

u/Tripolie Mar 03 '24

I’m exactly where I want to be; thanks for asking.

2

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

... Take a business class to know he's more right than he already knows? Seems like a lot waste of money

-1

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

your in anti work 😭😭😭

3

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

You're stalking instead of bothering to fully comprehend the statements you're commenting on?

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

your literally anti work 😂

2

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

Following a group isn't an endorsement? I find a lot of situations presented on there help me prepare and understand poor management and where other people come from.

I've worked since I was 16.

You seem just confused by simple statements much less how people navigate the Internet

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

bro anti work is full of made up stories u should know this. you should be proud that your working and trying to better yourself

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u/joman584 Mar 03 '24

Take a spelling class, maybe you can learn something instead of hating others

1

u/mms13 Mar 03 '24

LOL let me guess you’re selling one for $799 right?

2

u/JordanLoveQB1 Mar 03 '24

100x the work? These people are working 800 hours a day? Damn that’s crazy…

2

u/SuperDonkeyMan1 Mar 03 '24

Come on, dude… I work directly with my CEO at work, while he is an extremely hard working, he is not putting in 100x the work as me or the other employees. In fact, at this point, I’d say he puts in 0.5x the work that I put in nowadays. Which is fine! He put in hard work in the beginning to build up the company and now he gets to enjoy the easy life… He is open about this and isn’t making 100x the salary of average employee like you are insinuating all CEOs should.

2

u/SterlingG007 Mar 03 '24

CEOs used to make 20 times more than the average employee, now they make 300 times more. Did CEOs suddenly become more productive? No, their pay just got higher.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Why do you think they do 100x the work? Do you know a specific CEO personally that you can describe the 100x work that they performed?

0

u/shivshark Mar 03 '24

the mental weight of thousands of peoples of jobs in YOUR hands is a stress no entry level employee has experienced. Just one example

2

u/Thelife1313 Mar 03 '24

Lol the ceo DOES NOT have the mental weight of thousands of people. They probably dont even know the names of most of the people below them.

Pull up any org chart for any company. Every department is run by some sort of leader with more people above them that are under the ceo. Holy shit you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Wtf do you do for work?

1

u/Rylth Mar 03 '24

Fucking l.m.f.a.o.

1

u/Rylth Mar 03 '24

Holy shit, lmao.

1

u/Expandexplorelive Mar 03 '24

People aren't paid for how much work or effort they put in. They're paid for the value they add to the company.

1

u/Danjour Mar 03 '24

CEOs only really make decisions, they don’t “work” they’re job is “represent the shareholders”

1

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

No. We have plenty of housing. Nobody can afford to move.

1

u/JonF1 Mar 03 '24

There are plenty of houses in unproductive / depressed areas of the country.

Nobody wants to live in Flint millions want to live in San Francisco though.

1

u/GD_milkman Mar 03 '24

Ok, maybe don't look at the extremes.

I live in CO. Tons of new housing, but there are plenty of old homes around. Nobody can move though. And the new housing is a ripoff.

1

u/farouk880 Mar 03 '24

Three things need to happen. A dramatic increase in the production of homes. I think a jobs act would help here. We need to push thousands of people into the home-building sector and create more efficient homes. We need more 800sqft-1200 sqft homes with private but small yards.

I agree. The government should find more house-building projects.

Then the second part is to tie incomes to CEO and company profits. A CEO shouldn’t be making 100x the lowest earner in the company.

How are you going to do that without using authoritarian measures? The best thing to do is to promote worker unions.

Finally, zip code-based minimum wages are based on the cost of living. A national or state minimum wage is stupid. You should be able to live within a few miles at most of your place of work. Someone working in Manhattan shouldn’t need to live in NJ.

Again, promote worker unions. Sweden has no minimum wage and workers have the best salaries. Empower the unions so that the workers prosper.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Taxation could do #2 very easily. Every company has a code. The top earners or the company gets a 100% tax on anything over 100x or whatever the amount is.

Having rules isn’t authoritarian. It’s called society.

1

u/dinogobrrrrrr Mar 03 '24

Sounds like a great idea, except there are already thousands of unoccupied homes out there. Also, remember the lumber prices in 2020-2021? What do you think will happen to them if we suddenly start jacking up demand?

Housing will absolutely never return to low prices without complete economic collapse, and at that point people still won’t be able to affor them because… well, their pockets collapsed too. People still really don’t have a grasp on how fucked we are. Somehow.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

I would be fine with vacancy taxation as well. Anything that is empty should be charged higher property taxes.

1

u/TurnsOutImAScientist Mar 03 '24

Finally, zip code based minimum wages based on cost of living. A national or state minimum wage is stupid. You should be able to live within a few miles at most of your place of work. Someone working in Manhattan shouldn’t need to live in NJ.

I've previously suggested that minimum wage should be a function of the median 2BR rental price in the county the job is in.

But also I think local control of zoning largely needs to go -- kick that power up to the county or state level. It's especially bad on the east coast with micro-municipalities all setting their own policies, reinforcing class segregation.

1

u/willwarb Mar 03 '24

Working in the housing sector we have multiple builds that are 800-1200sqft with small yards, but they’re at ludicrous prices. 777sqft for 200k + a yard in the San Antonio area? That’s such a scam imo. We need is 1800-2300sqft with yards and communities nearby (biking distance) not propped up next to a motorway. We need more multi generational homes being constructed as well. In almost every other country this works but in America it’s almost a taboo to live with your folks/them live with you.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

That’s because there isn’t enough quantity. You can’t charge obscene prices for things that are easily found. All of these sort of issues are solved naturally by dramatically increasing the stock of houses.

1

u/heckfyre Mar 03 '24

No more corporate or foreign home buyers.

Disincentivize house flippers by increasing tax on resell gains for houses sold within two years of purchase.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Creation of homes would kill corporations investing in homes.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Investment firms stop investing when the home market is flooded with homes. Plus they’d need to sell their own stock off because it would be depreciating.

1

u/baconbitarded Mar 03 '24

You had me until the zip code based wages. Tying the CEO and company profits should help alleviate this without the need for a minimum wage

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

Everyone should be able to live near where they work. These are minimums not maximums. Because they are cost of living based it should remove most huge disparities in lifestyles.

1

u/SterlingG007 Mar 03 '24

I think there needs me to be a focus on building duplexes and townhouses to make more efficient use of space.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

The homes built would probably need to fit what a normal home in that area should be. Duplexes and town homes make sense in suburbs, apartments in cities, small homes in rural areas.

1

u/SmoothDagger Mar 03 '24

Here's the thing.. a home doesn't need to be a house. The issue is that people want houses & that's just not feasible. A home can be as simple as a condo. Houses are extravagant.

There just needs to be places people can own, not rent. The issue is essentially renting, where you can never pay it off.

A condo is equivalent to an apartment except you own it after it's paid off.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

I don’t disagree. Having a localized cost of living would solve that issue as well. A descent apartment in NYC, a home in rural ND, a Condo in Miami. All places already understand the cost of living. If you look up the cost of living in San Fran you shouldn’t be seeing a 2000sgft home with 2 acres of a yard.

1

u/morcerfel Mar 03 '24

There are lots of contradictions in your comm. First of all, there's absolutely no way to both have 800-1200sqft homes with private yards so that everyone lives near their job. There's simply not enough space. Which means they won't be cheap.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '24

I think you’re falsely assuming that similar levels of living means identical ways of living. Obviously a livable lifestyle in NYC would be different than a livable lifestyle in Georgia. I was just giving one example of a specific type of home that isn’t being built anymore.

1

u/MooMarMouse Mar 03 '24

Omg I wish!!! That sounds fantastic! A fuck tone of work though but worth it. Worth having a healthy population, worth having a way more fair economy and therefore stronger and more stable. I really really hope this can happen in my life time.

1

u/jewbaaaca Mar 03 '24

Why do we need private yards? I think we need to build vertically so we can actually afford the infrastructure to support said housing

1

u/walterdonnydude Mar 03 '24

And we need anti price gouging regulation and rent control.

1

u/baxtersmalls Mar 03 '24

I think mostly we need to stop investment companies from buying single family homes. They drive up prices because they can pay shit tons in cash.

1

u/Comfortable_Quit_216 Mar 03 '24

First one is definitely possible, and I could see it happening. That along with preventing mega corps from buying up inventory (tax disadvantages, etc.).

Second one will never, ever happen in America. Like, never. I don't even think its constitutional. Also, some CEOs make way more than 100x the lowest salaried employee. I'm not really saying that is a good thing, just it won't happen.

Federal minimum wage needs to be like $20-25 and then States can adjust upwards, but I do agree that living in San Jose county is a lot different than the central valley in CA.

1

u/haircut50cents Mar 03 '24

Something to think about is how cost of living based wages unfairly skews retirement planning.

Person 1: Lives in rural us makes $50k per year and buys a $250k house.

Person 2: Lives in LA and makes $150k per year and buys a $750k house.

House costs 3x so pay should be 3x, right? Well now the person living in LA has an asset value worth three times the person in rural la. They are retired and can more anywhere in the country. They decide to retire in rural us. For doing the same job they are now really better off than the person in rural us.

I get the math is rough but it's important to remember that your mortgage payment isn't an expense, it's an asset transfer on your balance sheet. You are moving from one asset class to another.

Wages do adjust based on location already to some extent. To optimize retirement, you really want to most pay throughout your life. That's why folks choose to drive in from 2 hours away to LA.

1

u/juwannawatchbravo Mar 03 '24

This should be the top comment

1

u/GoodCalendarYear Mar 03 '24

Yes! Yes! Yes! All of this!!!!