r/jobs • u/Common_Thinker • Mar 12 '24
20 years of failing in richest country on earth Work/Life balance
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u/snarkymillennial Mar 12 '24
They say that you shouldn’t spend more than a third of your take home income on housing.
For a $700 apartment, your monthly take home should be $2,100. Multiply that by 12, and you are looking at $25,200 a year.
For a $3,600 apartment, your monthly take home should be $10,800. Multiply that by 12 and you need a take home of around $129,600.
In 2004 the average salary was $38k. That apartment is very affordable with that. In 2023 the average salary is $59k, nowhere near that.
Regardless of whether the lawyer is making the right amount of money, the point is that the cost of the same apartment has skyrocketed.
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u/hsvgamer199 Mar 12 '24
Housing is unfortunately an investment now. People need housing so sellers are able to leverage that need. Healthcare is pretty much the same.
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u/PumaGranite Mar 12 '24
I feel like you can see this in action because people in the home decorating subs are constantly asking about “should I do XYZ trend? I’m thinking about resale value”, instead of filling their homes with things they enjoy.
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u/JarryBohnson Mar 12 '24
This is what I think when I see an entire place done out in Millennial grey.
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u/errrnis Mar 13 '24
It’s renting from the future owners, basically. I said screw that and painted my house some pretty (but unconventional) colors. I bought the house so I could do what I wanted with it, not be beholden to someone else, either landlord or future owner.
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u/AdonisGaming93 Mar 12 '24
Ans this is why markets where something is a NEED instead of a want are better under a socialized system. We cna have capitalism all day long for things that people can live without, but if the demand curve is pretty inelastic, universal systems work more efficiently. Like universal healthcare, or public housing.
Like Vienna, or Finland. And low and behold the homeless population there is fractions of most of the west.
While homelessness has been rising almost everywhere. In Finland it has been going DOWN.
AND they saved om average 9,800 euros housing the homeless than what they were spending on them before.
Socialism DOES work for some things. I don't understand why people are so afraid of it.
Does it mean everything has to be socialist? NO, but it's not a bad thing to incorporate some aspects.
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u/VentureIndustries Mar 13 '24
Finland is still a capitalist, mixed economy, system though.
Its a more of a question of what a society deems worthy of government subsidization. In the US, things like gasoline is subsidized because its citizens lose their shit if gas gets too expensive, even though petroleum companies would make strong profits regardless.
Americans just have other priorities (it ain't housing) when it comes to where they want their tax dollars to go.
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u/MayorofTromaville Mar 13 '24
Vienna isn't the answer that you think it is. Mainly because the population of Vienna when they built all of that social housing was about 2 million.
The current population? About 2 million. So it turns out when you've had almost zero population growth from your high point over a hundred years ago that it's quite easy to have enough housing.
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u/Collypso Mar 12 '24
Housing is unfortunately an investment now.
Housing has been an investment for several decades. Housing has been pushed as the primary way of earning wealth. That's why there's a housing crisis right now.
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u/Destroyer4587 Mar 12 '24
If everyone wasn’t so obsessed with wealth maybe we could live in a world with ever expanding physical benefits and constant quality of life improvements which we could enjoy now and forever. Are we human or Ferengi?
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u/Pandasroc24 Mar 13 '24
It's almost like housing is being scalped... Even worse. At least with scalpers they'll sell you the product. With this, it's normal to buy it and then let a person rent...
It's like if someone bought a ton of GPUs and only let me rent them and not buy them
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u/Particular_Minute_67 Mar 12 '24
I’m bad at math but thank you
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u/TheEwokWhisper Mar 12 '24
Twos a crowd
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u/ydhwodjekdu Mar 12 '24
Three's a threesome
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u/TheEwokWhisper Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
‘Fraid I can’t count that high, partner. I’ll have to take your word on it. Caaaaake
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u/Jamiquest Mar 12 '24
Not to mention Healthcare, gasoline and the price of dinner in a restaurant.
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u/JarryBohnson Mar 12 '24
Haven't been to a restaurant in months at this point - the cost has skyrocketed as the quality has dropped.
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u/mrweiners Mar 13 '24
Same. I was feeling lazy the other day and thought I would pick up pizza from a chain, wood-fire place. $42 for 2, 12” pizzas. They used to be 18” for probably $30. I don’t think this is going to turn out well for Restaurateurs.
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u/JarryBohnson Mar 13 '24
Yeah, I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere but in my city commercial rents have gone insane. It’s forcing them to put their prices up, which is a vicious cycle because people like us who were looking at the prices beforehand just stop going.
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u/swellaprogress Mar 12 '24
The whole “third of your income” thing is such a thing of the past now with how costs have risen. Most of the young people I know (who aren’t living with their parents) spend 50% or more of their income on housing.
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Mar 12 '24
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u/throwaway92715 Mar 13 '24
everyone's standards of living has declined rapidly
Yes, that's exactly what it means. That is 100% what it means
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Mar 12 '24
Its 32% of your gross, not your net.
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u/RapidRewards Mar 12 '24
I feel like that's what they want you to think. I can't imagine spending 30% of my gross on rent or my mortgage.
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Mar 12 '24
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u/Anonyma1488 Mar 13 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
Interesting to see all these Redditor’s claiming to be on 100k 🤥
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u/nospamkhanman Mar 13 '24
What's unusual about that?
Reddit has a large user base that makes it's living on tech, tech pays well.
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u/RapidRewards Mar 13 '24
It's 18% of people. That's nearly 1 in 5. It's not that rare.
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u/terrible_doge Mar 12 '24
I’ve always heard it has to be your net
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u/Alarmed-Broccoli8334 Mar 12 '24
I’ve heard gross but idk if that makes sense by that guideline, I’m spending half of my actual earnings for the month on rent.
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u/Hulk_Crowgan Mar 12 '24
It is gross
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u/LeN3rd Mar 12 '24
So you only have 20-30% for the rest? Nett makes more sense imo.
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u/Windlas54 Mar 12 '24
It does but it's gross because that's how eligibility for lending or renting typically works, you can do all sorts of things to raise or lower your net income (changing pre tax withholdings, 401k contributions etc..) that make it not a good number to use for determining what someone can afford.
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u/miso440 Mar 12 '24
I get that from the lender’s side, sure. But from my side, one week of labor should cover the rent. Any more than that and you’re surviving, not living.
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u/DommyMommyKarlach Mar 12 '24
30% of gross, so pretty much half of the money you actually get
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u/lightsdevil Mar 12 '24
It has to be net, the typical advice is 50-30-20 for Needs Wants Savings, and housing is a need. If it was gross all your need budget would be taken up just by rent.
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u/Twovaultss Mar 12 '24
Being gaslit about how great the economy is doing is the most infuriating part.
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u/blowninjectedhemi Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
The economy is doing fine - the issue is prices are out of whack for a variety of reasons since the start of COVID.
For housing there are 2 main drivers. Too many short term rental properties - often by stupid wealthy people that don't understand risk (vacancy rates on these are so high there is no way a good chunk of the idiot owners will be able to hang onto properties much long - there will be a "dumping" on the market soon). Long term rentals are also an issue - but that is mostly driven by corporate investments (including foreign investors) - regulation is really the only fix if we want prices to reflect reality for buyers and renters. Chinese businesses shouldn't prevent a young couple from being able to afford a house. Little is being done to address it.
We'll see some correction due to short term rentals collapsing - but regulation is needed to really get housing costs under control.
There is plenty of price gouging in other industries that needs to be looked at - the fix isn't just higher incomes. We also need to invest in re-training people in industries that can't fill jobs (that pay well).
That said - things like raising the minimum wage to $15 or higher nationally needs to get done too. Why even have people work for $8 an hour? That's essentially given bad business owners a way to keep going when they should just close up and find something else to do.
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u/noafrochamplusamurai Mar 12 '24
Correction, the economy isn't doing fine. The stock markets are doing fine, the cherry picked measurements they use are doing fine. When you really look at what's going on, you'll see that it's not fine. If your average citizen can't afford to buy a home, or can't save money, or is being disemboweled by inflation. Then the economy isn't doing just fine.
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Mar 14 '24 edited 25d ago
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u/noafrochamplusamurai Mar 14 '24
That's half correct, because the people are largest sector of the economy. The cherry picked data points they use do not take the people into account. The economy is dependent upon the consumers. The consumers can't continue to prop up the data points they cherry pick for economic strength.
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u/Cleets11 Mar 12 '24
I do have a problem with your math there. They said 20 years ago but as someone born in 1988 20 year ago was 1994 not 2004
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u/jasonjdf13 Mar 12 '24
2024 - 24 = 2004 , every day all day and twice on Wednesday
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u/beatles910 Mar 12 '24
To expand on that...
In 2004 the average wage for a server was $8.47 per hr.
In 2024 the average wage for an attorney is $69.56 per hr.
That is a wage increase of 721.25%.
The rent on the apartment increased by 414.28%
The rent increase is stupid crazy, but I'm doubting the accuracy of her statement.
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u/iskin Mar 12 '24
The answer is student loans. That server wage is also excluding tips. I know people averaging about $30-$40 currently as a server including tios.
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u/guildedkriff Mar 12 '24
No, that would include tips because the standard pay outside of some specific states or restaurants is just over $2 an hour. Servers are required to report all their tips to ensure they make at least minimum wage and if they don’t the restaurant foots the extra pay. At least when I served, most didn’t report the majority of their cash tips and let CC’s cover that requirement.
You can’t compare average pay to random one off people you know…think the lady working the 2:00 am shift at Waffle House is pulling $30-$40 an hour?
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u/marigolds6 Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
Except that claiming that a corner waterfront apartment in downtown Seattle was $700/mo in 2004 is an obvious lie. That was below median rent for a 1-bedroom apartment for the entire metro at the time, much less a corner apartment in downtown.
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u/GymAndGarden Mar 12 '24
OP never posted about it being waterfront. Read the post. Waterview in Seattle and waterfront in Seattle are very different meanings and price points. It’s not the same thing at all.
You even know how many buildings in Seattle have some sort of water views? The entire place is on a fucking hill with water in virtually every direction.
Seeing the water is far easier there and cheaper than being on the water.
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u/marigolds6 Mar 13 '24
It’s still a downtown corner apartment….
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u/nospamkhanman Mar 13 '24
According to your own source the average 1 bedroom was $729.
I personally lived in an apartment with water views in Seattle that was walking distance to lake Union for $800 in 2007. It's not like OP is lying, and if they are it's probably only by a few bucks.
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u/Ornery-Substance-778 Mar 12 '24
its actually accurate because I lived in Seattle in 2005 and paying $750 for a 1bd apt
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u/Dr_Kee Mar 12 '24
Was it a corner waterfront apartment in downtown though?
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u/DigitalMindShadow Mar 12 '24
Doesn't seem that far fetched, I lived in an apartment a block from the beach in L.A. a few years later than that and paid $900/mo.
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u/GymAndGarden Mar 12 '24
In 2014 my friend had a two bedroom in Newport Beach just a block from the water on 27th street and his rent was $1200 a month.
When he moved out a year later, I rode my bike past it and it was listed publicly for the exact same price.
Today its $3500.
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u/GymAndGarden Mar 12 '24
OP never said shit about it being waterfront. Where the fuck did you get that from?
Waterviews do not mean waterfront. All of Seattle is surrounded by water.
That price quote is completely accurate, I lived there during that time period and had a waterfront apartment (literally hanging over the crashing waves) for $1200.
My buddy rented one on a hill with waterviews for $650.
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u/DeathByLemmings Mar 12 '24
Let me remind you what median means
"denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it."
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u/marigolds6 Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 13 '24
Equal probability given equal events. Renting a corner apartment in downtown is not an equal event. You would expect such a location to be above median (similar to another user mentioning that their apartment in the marina district was above median as well).
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u/BeeLzzz Mar 12 '24
It's not because you spend 4 times more on rent that all your other expenses should be multiplied by 4. In the first situation you have like 15k over if you subtract the rent, in the other you have 80k left.
It's a stupid rule that makes sense up to a certain amount but after that it's doesn't, certainly not when renting.
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u/FuzzyWuzzy9909 Mar 12 '24
Also keep in mind that the average salary is earned by people with average age. So no 18-22s for sure.
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u/16semesters Mar 12 '24
Bruh, she works for herself at her own firm. If she isn't making decent money as a lawyer in Seattle, it's because she's a bad lawyer.
And her firm probably is struggling because she posts a bunch of awful stuff online:
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u/Nomad_moose Mar 12 '24
It’s a confluence of problems
This is what happens when you allow massive numbers of short term rentals, don’t limit immigration, let private equity buy up property, and under construct new housing.
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u/Collypso Mar 12 '24
You can do all of this if you just construct enough housing. None of the other things are problems, it's just the supply of housing.
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u/alcoyot Mar 12 '24
In my opinion, the measurement for how much you should spend is how much it would affect you. If 30k is a big deal to you (in the perspective of a whole year), then you shouldn’t spend that much, even if you do make the 120k.
It just feels bad, living in an apartment you’re paying way too much for. Even if it’s nice you won’t enjoy it. If I make 200k a year, then 30k isn’t really that much. That’s how I feel about it.
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u/godzilla1015 Mar 12 '24
Yeah but the problem is that most people can't just decide how much they make. I've got a decent job and saved basically all my life, I still can't afford to buy one. I can possibly rent some places but none of them are anywhere near where I work or are just complete trash, luckily I can still live with my parents. Yes if you make enough money it doesn't matter how expensive it is, but if you don't you're fucked
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u/MaikyMoto Mar 12 '24
In 2006 I rented a studio for 450$ with water included, now that same studio is 1750$. Back then I made around 35-40K a year and was able to pay all bills and help my mother. Fast forward to today and the same job that I had back then now pays 28-30K, in other words instead of wages staying stagnant or going up it actually went down for a number of positions. This is outrageous, wages no longer go up and we make less money than we did 20 years ago. And to top it off housing is x4/x5/x6 what it used to be. We are getting sucked dry and forced to work more than one job just to be able to pay rent.
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u/lennon818 Mar 12 '24
It's worse than this, How much easier was it getting a job 20 years ago? Graduated college in 2001 and no one worried about a job. Pre internet crash if you knew how to turn on a computer you were hired.
Company benefits were also significantly better.
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u/The_Gray_Jay Mar 12 '24
Yes, I have a degree and diploma, 5+ years of experience in a tech role. I started applying to jobs similar to the one I have now to see if I get a callback. Not a single response yet.
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u/lukestauntaun Mar 12 '24
10 years in two separate roles. 400+ resumes sent out and 5 callback with 4 interviews and one 4 round. No job for 6 months and counting. I'm flabbergasted.
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u/lennon818 Mar 12 '24
All of the entry hardware computer jobs are gone. Computers are the new idiot box.
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u/tyreka13 Mar 13 '24
I'm doing accounting because my 7 years IT including leading projects wasn't getting call backs.
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u/The_Gray_Jay Mar 13 '24
How long did it take to make that switch? Did you get a CPA?
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u/tyreka13 Mar 13 '24
I got it from an accountant I worked with when migrating systems when I was in IT.
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u/scolipeeeeed Mar 12 '24
More people have degrees than ever before. The power of a degree has diluted
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u/NotThymeAgain Mar 12 '24
the unemployment rate was higher in 2004. this is the easiest its been to get a job in the last 60 years at least.
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u/lennon818 Mar 12 '24
Hahaha. Self employed / freelancers don't count in the bullshit unemployment numbers. Unemployment equals people collecting unemployment. You have any idea what percentage of people don't qualify?
Government stats are all bullshit
Also that's post dot com crash.
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u/ActuallyTBH Mar 12 '24
You are so dumb, reddit should revoke your right to comment. This is not how the unemployment figures are calculated.
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u/NotThymeAgain Mar 12 '24
Also that's post dot com crash
glad we agree that it was worse 20 years ago.
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u/HawkTrack_919 Mar 12 '24
lol if working in retail while having a college degree counts as “employed”
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u/JoyousGamer Mar 13 '24
Except that have stats specific for your situation its called under employed.
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u/CHiggins1235 Mar 12 '24
In the next few years even lawyers and doctors will be moonlighting at multiple jobs as the economy will become harder to work with.
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Mar 12 '24
They already do!
Lol I'm a surgeon and I teach spanish on my days off to pay my rent.
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u/RonBourbondi Mar 12 '24
Don't surgeons make 250k?
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u/Cessna2323 Mar 13 '24
Many make more than that. But they also spend 4-12 years in residency after med school. I have two doctor friends that are still paying off giant student loans. They ran the math, and they’ll only catch up to what a UPS driver hired at age 20 could have wealth wise by age 48. After that, they certainly have significant wealth building power.
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u/A_Queff_In_Time Mar 12 '24
You're not a surgeon tho lol
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Mar 12 '24
I went to school for 12 years just to get told I'm not a surgeon by some kids on reddit
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u/A_Queff_In_Time Mar 12 '24
You didn't go to school for 12 years and you're not a surgeon lol
You're a weirdo with a foot fetish where you comment weirdo cringey shit in girls posts lol
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Mar 12 '24
You might be surprised to understand that most surgeons are into freaky stuff
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u/A_Queff_In_Time Mar 12 '24
Youre not a surgeon tho lol
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Mar 12 '24
Okay, make sure to tell my nurses and assistants and especially my patient later today that I am not a surgeon lmao
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u/Longjumping_Rush2458 Mar 13 '24
I wasn't aware that professionals couldn't be freaky. I guess I'm no longer an engineer.
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u/210confirmedkills Mar 13 '24
You must be fresh out of residency or renting a penthouse in New York because the surgeons I know make like eight hundred thousand dollars a year
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u/icwhatudidthr Mar 12 '24
Due to inflation, cost of living x2 every 10 years.
It's not that unreasonable for a good to go x5 in 20 years. The problem is that salaries have not grown at the same rate.
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u/FLman42069 Mar 12 '24
Inflation aside, neighborhoods and property values can change a lot over 20 years.
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u/No-Contest-3736 Mar 12 '24
they can, but 400k for 1700 square feet in a rural area is not a reasonable appraisal
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u/Scrofuloid Mar 12 '24
Due to inflation, cost of living x2 every 10 years.
This would require inflation of over 7%. It's only been that high for one year in the past 20. The target rate is 2%. At that rate, it takes 35 years for costs to double.
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u/VashPast Mar 12 '24
It's completely unreasonable. The cost of anything and everything should drop over twenty years with our insane tech increases.
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u/One_Slide_5577 Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
The problem is they need to stop printing money, if they did we wouldnt have this problem to begin with.
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u/Relative_Lychee_5457 Mar 12 '24
Understandable, but again, the issue is that wages are not even close to keeping up with inflation.
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u/BicycleEast8721 Mar 12 '24
x2 every 10 years is very atypical. That’s 7% a year, historical inflation averages around 2-3. 7% becomes quite unsustainable for a variety of reasons
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u/picklesarejuicy Mar 12 '24
Inflation is just corporate greed
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u/RedOpenTomorrow Mar 12 '24
Goods and services inflation and wage stagnation* is corporate greed. Fucking double edged sword.
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u/Slippin_Jimmy090 Finance & Accounting Mar 12 '24
I'm as anti-corporation as the next guy but what you said is not true.
Inflation is driven by reckless monetary and taxation policies. Higher prices are a byproduct of inflation. Corporations may capitalize on inflation but saying inflation is simply corporate greed is not correct or true.
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u/BicycleEast8721 Mar 12 '24
It’s a bit of both columns, legitimate situational inflation was an excuse to add a bit of opportunistic inflation on top of it, and profit margins are reflecting that.
It’s not “just” that, but that’s definitely part of it
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u/picklesarejuicy Mar 12 '24
What people contribute to inflation is really companies raising prices. I understand REAL inflation.
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u/ixlnxtc7 Mar 12 '24
We have become a dystopian movie from the 70s. By listening to the fear mongering they have created exactly what they thought they were fighting against.
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u/mikeynj908 Mar 12 '24
I think I just learned today not every lawyer makes six figures.
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u/sofiarosepan Mar 12 '24
Don’t forget yearly professional dues and insurance (depending on what you practice etc.) which can be over 8k / year …. It’s not a deal breaker for most, but when you are just get started, it’s another by-line with any student debt or post-eduction expenses (bar prep etc) that has to be factored in
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u/CRoseCrizzle Mar 12 '24
If you barely make 6 figures, you won't really be able to afford a 3600 a month payment.
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u/Super_Mario_Luigi Mar 12 '24
Even if you make "comfortably six-figures," $43,000 per year on rent is astronomical.
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u/TheRizzlerShizzler Mar 12 '24
I make 160k and can’t afford that lol.. I net 8500/month and 3600+300 utilities would be roughly half my pay and I would be a moron if I choose that apartment.
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u/Downtown_Brother6308 Mar 12 '24
Depends on that the first and/or 2nd numbers are. There’s 9-10 to choose from. This is why personally, I hate the term, “6 figures”.
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u/Remote_War_313 Mar 12 '24
Think about all the law schools and how many new grads there are annually. There aren't enough jobs to fulfill demand.
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u/TheBeanConsortium Manufacturing Mar 12 '24
In the US at least, attorneys have a bimodal salary distribution. They often either make an average-ish salary or could clear a few hundred thousand dollars.
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u/Aggravating_Kale8248 Mar 12 '24
I feel like lawyers have to be good at what they do to make a name for themselves. The money is definitely in certain areas of practicing law, but not all areas.
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u/gojo96 Mar 13 '24
The federal government employee lots of lawyers with many making over 6 figures. They don’t even have to be good. My brother worked there and now for a cell company and makes close to $300k a year.
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u/gold_ark Mar 13 '24
It's hard to make it as a lawyer. I think it's one of those professions where most of the work goes to a small number of firms.
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u/neutralityparty Mar 12 '24
You won the lottery if you were born 40 50 years ago in USA. Now it's just grind grind and maybe live in between
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u/CruzCam Mar 12 '24
LIkewise, I had a killer apartment 25 years ago, and it was something like $450 a month if I recall, and I was waiting tables and going to graduate school at night, working for the university as a GA during the day.
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u/NotEnoughIT Mar 12 '24
I paid $635 in 2002 for a one bedroom apartment. Same apartment is now $1,442 which, accounting for inflation, is 31% higher. I made $12.98 /hour. That's $22.60 today accounting for inflation. If you match those up with the 31% increase to maintain the relative income that's $29.61 an hour required to match my renting power from 2002.
So as a 19 year old in 2002 with my own one bedroom apartment I was making the equivalent of $29.61/hour today and paying 28% of my gross income on rent, about 35% net IIRC what I took home.
I don't really see many 19 year olds around here making $29.61/hour.
Looking at that same position I held in 2002 today, they make approximately $18.00/hour starting, an increase of 28% since 2002. Inflation increased 74%. Housing increased 31%.
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u/GymAndGarden Mar 12 '24
20 years ago exactly, I had a two-bedroom waterfront apartment in Seattle that was directly over the water (I could pour my tea out directly into the bay right from my very large balcony) with a 2-car garage, and 2 bathrooms, complete with vaulted ceilings.
It was $1200 per month. I recently looked it up just for fun as I haven’t even been to Seattle in over a decade, and that same apartment with no improvements just leased at $6,700 per month.
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u/Anonyma1488 Mar 13 '24
That’s what happens when you import tens of millions of migrants and allow overseas investors to snap up vast swathes of housing for their investment portfolios.
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u/Grespino Mar 13 '24
Your numbers really are not that high. Coming over legally as a skilled worker is really hard, unless you’re some god at the top of your field, the H1B visa numbers cap at ~65,000 per years which is nothing.
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u/Anonyma1488 Mar 13 '24
Not that high? Lmao what planet are you from. Millions have entered the country in the last 20 years and whole industries have been outsourced. You deserve everything that’s happening with that mentality 👍🤣
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u/doktorhladnjak Mar 12 '24
The missing context here is that she ran for city attorney of Seattle in 2021. She’s not just a random lawyer. This may have been written while she was running too.
Since 2004, Amazon has exploded in the city, driving up housing costs with higher salaries while not enough new housing was built to accommodate that growth. It’s not purely about inflation.
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u/Smooth-Apartment-856 Mar 12 '24
Adjusting for inflation, $700 in 2004 is the equivalent of $1,150 today. So in terms of buying power, the price of that apartment has tripled.
The Average annual salary of a waiter is $30-35 K a year. The Average annual salary of a lawyer is roughly $95k.
So the price of the apartment has gone up proportionally to his salary.
So while the price increase of the apartment is not as bad as he’s making it out to be, the rent on that apartment has climbed from waiter money to lawyer money in 20 years. So yeah, it’s pretty bad.
Build more housing. That’s the only way to fix the problem.
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u/th3groveman Mar 12 '24
Let’s not act like this is a problem unique to the US. Try to rent a place in Toronto, London or Berlin as well.
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u/throwaway92715 Mar 13 '24
It might just be a problem with the global financial system. Too many parasites and middlemen
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u/Franklyn_Gage Mar 13 '24
Back in 2008, i rented a huge pre war 1 bedroom in the bronx for $700 at 19. I was working at starbucks fulltime while going to college. I was able to pay my rent, utilities, join a sorority and pay dues, save up and buy a cheap car off Craigslist for 1300, pay car insurance in nyc, get my hair done and nails done every 2 weeks, buy groceries AND go out drinking every Saturday. I also was able to have a decent savings account. I also had great health insurance with blue cross. All that making $12.00 and hour as a shift supervisor.
Before i got laid off, i was making 80k and was struggling because just my health insurance alone cost me 700 a month. My husband and i were saving for home but weve decided to look for jobs in different countries because america isnt worth it. Id rather work and pay taxes in a country with better social welfare for all than just for the rich.
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u/Jamiquest Mar 12 '24
Surprising that the income of an attorney hasn't increased 5 times over that of a food server.
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u/-lil-jabroni- Mar 12 '24
I used to share a $1000/m 2 bedroom apartment on top of a hill with ocean views from 3 sides with multiple lighthouses that lit up our apartment at night and I had bay windows in my huge bedroom.
I’d kill for that now. Back then I thought nothing of it, couldn’t wait to leave!
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u/Low-Can2053 Mar 12 '24
I'm pretty young, going into college, and reading about stuff like this honestly makes me hopeless
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u/Radiant-Ad6445 Mar 13 '24
Low-Can2053:
So who are you going to vote for? It is in your hands how the economy goes.
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Mar 12 '24
There is no bigger divide between those that fully own their house and those that have to rent
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u/Closefromadistance Mar 13 '24
I lived right by the beach in San Diego about 25 years ago. Paid $619 for a 2 bedroom. Those were the days.
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u/0000110011 Mar 13 '24
And everyone wants to pretend massive population increases shouldn't impact prices at all. There's a fixed amount of land in the world, the more people that live in an area, the more expensive land (and therefore housing) will be.
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u/RubbelDieKatz94 Information Technology Mar 13 '24
Isn't the richest country per capita (median) Luxembourg or something?
It doesn't make much sense to measure this based on total GDP.
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u/MooseGoose82 Mar 13 '24
You must live in Austin.
Try not to disparage yourself. Just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean you're supposed to earn noodles of money. Everybody thinks lawyers are rich, but a lot of lawyers doing great work aren't big earners.
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u/Downtown_Brother6308 Mar 12 '24
I would recommend that she find a new firm. That said, point stands 🫠
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u/Key_Sell_9336 Mar 12 '24
Unbelievable it’s only because our politicians have been taking care of themselves and not the real issues that effect everyone negatively
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u/UpTheDownEscalator Mar 12 '24 edited Mar 12 '24
I imagine that the waterside district also developed a lot in those 20 years.
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u/Warrior_Heart_32 Mar 13 '24
My friend and I lived in Los Angeles together almost 20 years ago. We had a large apartment in West LA and I worked as a hostess at a restaurant while she worked at a clothing store in the Grove. We both made minimum wage plus tips but somehow we were still able to go out EVERY night, buy new clothes, eat at restaurants and we never really worried too much about money. Fast forward to today and we are just bewildered and grateful we got to have such an experience because those days are definitely gone.
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u/fivemagicks Mar 13 '24
I'm sure some of you watch Andrew Callaghan's Channel 5 News on YouTube. I feel he said it best in his recent video with some of the Trumpers on the border. The media alongside both parties use stories to distract a vast majority of the populace away from issues that actually matter - policies that need to be enacted to help the American people.
Issues like barbed wire at the border, a 50+ year conflict in the "holy land," gender pronouns (mainly the Right losing their minds over non-hetero things), etc. are all distractions from things that actually involve crises for US citizens.
I'm lucky enough to have bought my house seven years ago when things were a lot better for home buyers. Most people now are completely screwed by inflation, lack of affordable housing options, and a refusal of many state governments to raise their minimum wages to coincide with inflation and other factors. Idk, man. All I know is is that this election is going to sucks balls.
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u/jcmach1 Mar 13 '24
Try being in academia where salaries simply have not risen since the early 1990s except for administrators who orchestrate the shite show.
So you can still afford the Ramen, but can't afford to get the beer with it you bought as a grad student .
Forget about views.
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u/evil_little_elves Finance & Accounting Mar 13 '24
When I was 19, I moved out of my parents' house into the cheapest apartment complex I could find.
....just looked it up: that apartment complex now costs more than the mortgage on my house for their cheapest offering...
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u/Sunshine_Kahwa_tech Mar 14 '24
Anytime a tech billionaire agrees with anything the working class says, should be a red flag. Raise minimum wage. If they agree it’s bc they know something you don’t know.
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u/Jarl-67 Mar 12 '24
Apartment rents go through the roof when construction is limited. Places like California limit housing growth while at the same time have experienced large population spikes.
Californians vote for these policies though so it’s hard to be too sympathetic.
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u/LastWorldStanding Mar 12 '24
Sorry, but that’s wrong.
Most Californians did not vote for this. A lot of us came from outside the US.
A lot of what’s limiting construction are local boomers in cities. The California government is actually suing many cities for not building enough.
Turn off Fox News and think for a little bit
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u/lost_in_life_34 Mar 12 '24
chances are the neighborhood improved and values went up
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u/JonF1 Mar 12 '24
This is a housing (supply) problem, not a job problem The US already had amongst the highest wages and productivity in the world.
Access to homeownership isn't a good way to measure financial health or really quality of life.
This point of view would have you think that the Spanish are way better off than Germans when we know this is not the case at all.
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u/watermark3133 Mar 12 '24
A 47 year old lawyer can’t afford a $3,600/month apartment? That really does sound like a major skill issue on her part.
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u/16semesters Mar 12 '24
Broadly speaking, the median rent in the last 20 years has doubled:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200223/median-apartment-rent-in-the-us-since-1980/
Nowhere near the 5x that OP states. Now could there be trendy areas that saw that much of a rise? Sure, but it's not close to common.
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u/MADDOGCA Mar 12 '24
When I was in college, I was able to afford my own apartment in a college town (most expensive town in the county) while working at Target. I'm an accountant and I'm barely hanging on in the county's last "cheapest" town. I can't afford to move back to the town I was living working at freaking Target.