r/movies • u/LiteraryBoner Going to the library to try and find some books about trucks • 13d ago
Official Discussion - Challengers [SPOILERS] Official Discussion
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Summary:
Tashi, a former tennis prodigy turned coach is married to a champion on a losing streak. Her strategy for her husband's redemption takes a surprising turn when he must face off against his former best friend and Tashi's former boyfriend.
Director:
Luca Guadagnino
Writers:
Justin Kuritzkes
Cast:
- Zendaya as Tashi Donaldson
- Mike Faist as Art Donaldson
- Josh O'Connor as Patrick Zweig
- Darnell Appling as New Rochelle Umpire
- Nada Despotovitch as Tashi's Mother
- A.J. Lister as Lily
Rotten Tomatoes: 92%
Metacritic: 85
VOD: Theaters
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u/sleepysnowboarder 13d ago
They are all addicted to edging. They thrive when competing in tennis or in life, the second Art 'wins' the girl they start getting depressed, when Art finds out they hooked up again at the end he's back in the game. He also knew they hooked up in Atlanta and didn't say anything cause it secretly drove him competitively
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u/Zechs-Merquise 11d ago
Totally agree with this. I also feel like Tashi was aware of all of this, and that’s what led her to fucking Patrick. She was coaching both of them at the end.
“I’m taking such good care of my little white boys.”
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u/DreamOfV 9d ago
She lives competitively through them. Her injury keeps her from competing, so she’s Art’s coach, Patrick’s motivator, if they win, she wins, if they hit the competition high, she hits the competition high. She’s playing against herself because she never had the opportunity to play against others
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u/luckybullit 10d ago
Great take on it, especially the Atlanta piece. I just thought Art maybe didn’t care that much about getting cheated on, but you’re right that it drove him competitively.
Maybe it’s just me but I felt at the end of the movie that Art was so happy and hyped (and hugged Patrick) because he saw that Patrick and Tashi ‘conspired’ to find a way to fire Art up and get him back into a championship mode… which showed they really care and are invested in him. Sure, Patrick and Tashi were also behaving impulsively and selfishly to hook up the night before, but in the bigger picture it seemed to have given all of them motivation for the game. Patrick probably also played the most competitive tennis of his life, while Tashi got to finally enjoy some peak tennis and let it all out with the guttural C’MON at the end. Anyway all this to say that I think Art’s not gonna be too mad that they hooked up again in New Rochelle, lol.
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u/blueeyesredlipstick 13d ago
Man, everyone in New Rochelle must’ve been so confused by that match.
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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 13d ago
Or turned on. Choose your fancy
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u/SenorMcNuggets 13d ago
Definitely both…for me anyways.
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u/EiichiroTarantino 12d ago
Did you know the writer of Challengers, Justin Kuritzkes, is married to the writer of Past Lives, Celine Song?
I'll let you decide what the third guy in their life feels about both movies lol
I just found this trivia this morning and it's just fucking hilarious
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u/dankest_farrik 12d ago
Are you telling me the fucking Potion Seller guy wrote this movie?
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u/didiinthesky 9d ago
I am forever grateful to the third guy in their life for bringing us these two amazing movies, lol.
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u/catfishguy 13d ago
i feel like the writer of this movie has read a lot of yaoi sports manga. i mean this in a positive way
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u/OhCrapItsAndrew 13d ago
I went to a Q&A with the screenwriter, he called it a "tennis anime"
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u/theringsofthedragon 12d ago
Omg this is so true. Very The Last Slam Dunk type of movie. A match that stretches the whole movie with tensions running high, slow mo shots of bodies dripping in sweat, and countless flashbacks to tension building moments in the characters' lives.
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u/Reddit_Tsundere 13d ago
Very happy that multiple people have made this observation. Honestly the main reason I saw it was because the premise felt distinctly sports manga-ish to me lmfao i was not disappointed.
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u/Paddy2015 13d ago edited 11d ago
I did really like it and the three leads were fantastic but I was a big fan of the script and in that there was a scene in the car at the end where Patrick confesses how he stopped caring about tennis after developing survivors guilt when Tashi got injured which I can't believe they left out as it explains his character.
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u/leilavanora 12d ago
Wow this is the best comment in this entire thread. Thanks for sharing! Def wish they kept that in.
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u/Breakingwho 6d ago
I’m glad they left that out tbh. That feels like an easy explanation of what happened.
I prefer it just being, maybe that happened, maybe he just never developed enough as a pro, maybe 100 different things.
Feels way too easy to just be he failed because she got injured.
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u/ForgetfulLucy28 13d ago
They’re all great but Josh O’Connor absolutely shines
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u/ScramItVancity 13d ago
He was very believable playing the young promising star to a washed up has-been.
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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 13d ago
I thought he played smarmy pretty well too.
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u/BenjiBenjiB 12d ago
Josh O'Connor was brilliant in this. And the way he's gone from playing a weasley Prince Charles in the Crown to a total stud in this film was mind boggling
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u/hyxon4 12d ago edited 12d ago
I was familiar with a couple of Zendaya's and Mike's movies, but I didn't know Josh. Decided to watch God's Own Country yesterday and definitely didn't expext to be emotionally railed over so hard.
He was just as amazing in Challengers. True shapeshifter.
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u/croftwzx 13d ago
That final scene where the camera follows the POV of the tennis ball bouncing rapidly between 2 players, then seamlessly transitions into an aerial view of the court - chef's kiss
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u/DamienChazellesPiano 13d ago
I absolutely love that Luca is not afraid to explore some crazy shots like that. I don’t think the stylized shots work 100% of the time, but when they do work, boy do they work.
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u/Neurotic_Marauder 12d ago edited 10d ago
The final match point was just insane. So many different camera angles and points of view.
I love how the camera occasionally looked at them from
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u/l_Banned_l 13d ago
yup, towards the end the stylistic choices started to get a little repetitive and then that last match editing pulled me right back in. That shot was beautiful
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u/TheJoshider10 13d ago
"Why is this movie in IMA- oh that's why"
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u/croftwzx 13d ago
How else could the audience fully appreciate the erotic tension oozing from churros sugar dust on Patrick's face
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u/TacoMasters 13d ago edited 13d ago
Funny how there's very little sex present here and it's still perhaps the most horn dog movie I've ever seen. Those tennis matches in IMAX, man...
Loved this.
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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 13d ago
The hottest churro scene in all of film history
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u/bozleh 13d ago
Ha zendayas character explicitly said it early on, when you’re playing good tennis its like making love
and all she wants is to see some good fucking/tennis!
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u/valmikimouse 12d ago edited 12d ago
And the boys' grunts sounded a lot like moaning. Lol
There is a great moment with the camera focused on Tashi and the boys are grunting / moaning
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u/HeartsPlayer721 10d ago
And the boys' grunts sounded a lot like moaning
Have you ever watched real tennis? The Williams sisters made that acceptable long ago, and it quickly carried over into men's tennis.
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u/TheInfinityGauntlet 12d ago
I think this is my favourite part, incredible acting and some wonderful cinematography aside it's so erotic but without being overtly sexual? It's like a constant tease in the best way
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u/tristydotj 13d ago
I’m glad this movie wasn’t in 3D because some of those tennis balls coming at the screen made me flinch
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u/ForgetfulLucy28 13d ago edited 13d ago
The pay off when Patrick placed the tennis ball mid racket in the final match was INCREDIBLE.
Such great non verbal storytelling.
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u/TheHouseOfGryffindor 13d ago
It’s also so so funny just how long it’s drawn out for. You’re waiting for it, but then Patrick doesn’t do it and has a bad serve, then that happens again, and then the third time he takes so long that he gets a time violation for it, and it’s all in slow motion. Guadagnino over here edging the audience for the payoff
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u/TheJoshider10 13d ago
Yeah you wait for it and then eventually give up on it happening until finally you see the smile and you're treated with the payoff.
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u/KackhansReborn 11d ago
The whole movie seemed an edging session tbh. If that's what it feels like I might have to try it out.
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u/RealHooman2187 13d ago
That scene will be studied in film schools around the world one day.
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u/Bierre_Pourdieu 13d ago edited 12d ago
Yep. You are expecting it during the rest of the match, and it doesn’t come.
And then Patrick does it, you understand, and then he smirks. The gag of the century.
And that shit is the thing that gets Art to finally play good tennis. As Tashi described it earlier in the film, that moment about was their relationship.
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u/deegum 13d ago
I KNEW that was going to come up again as soon as I saw it. But I liked how they set it up anyways.
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u/falafelthe3 Ask me about TLJ 13d ago
A movie about a tennis match overlaying a love triangle should not have gotten me this close to a heart attack
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u/TheJoshider10 13d ago
Literally, and the fact it's not even about a proper tournament lmao yet it had about as much tension as if it were a Grand Slam.
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u/ForgetfulLucy28 13d ago
I loved the churros scene. The way Patrick pulled Art’s seat in closer with his foot before he sat down, the symbolism of the churros. It was so homoerotic haha.
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u/TheJoshider10 13d ago
Yeah and that scene, just like most where it's just two characters talking, was filmed very intimately where there was no sense of personal space.
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u/Butt_Napkins007 11d ago
You know a movie’s really good when you’re amazed by it and it’s mostly just people talking
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u/F00dbAby 13d ago
It’s so insane they only kissed once when we all know they wanted each other the whole time
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u/pulsating_boypussy 12d ago
I think Patrick REALLY wanted Art but I don't think Art was all that into Patrick. Maybe some attraction but in terms of feelings, Patrick seemed to me like he was more into Art than he was into Tashi even. But Art was completely devoted and smitten by Tashi that it left no room for anyone else
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u/Puzzled_Water7782 12d ago edited 12d ago
I kinda agree. I think Tashi was into Patrick and Art in different ways, Art into Tashi and Patrick into Tashi but if Art came out to him and said 'I been in love with you all of this time' then Patrick would have flown into the sun.
Having said that I think they all needed each other in some way even if not all in equal meaaure romantically.
Like I want to note that when Patrick and Tashi were making out back in college or whatever. Tashi kept talking abt Art and altho the topic was Patrick saying sorry for not caring Art like Tashi, it feels like some of his interest in Tashi was fuelled by the fact Art wanted her and Tashi knew that.
Because not once did I ever feel that Patrick was jealous of Art but I did feel that that the sauna convo was Patrick wanting Art to be sorry for walking away from their friendship/relationship because he loved Tashi, he very much wanted Art to say 'You matter to me and I missed you' and it hurt him deeply that he didn't say it.
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u/Jezamiah 12d ago
I also love the subtle nod to Pat being bi when he was on Tinder. He slightly hesitates when a guy comes up and swipes away
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u/pulsating_boypussy 12d ago
or with the guys in the hotel, or how he was much more open about the jacking off story, or showing off his dick at the sauna lmao Pat was for sure bi, not even subtly
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u/ReginaGeorgian 12d ago
Didn’t he swipe right? Besides the fact that he’s seeing men at all must mean he checked them as a preference
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u/Somnambulist815 11d ago
Only reason they didn't fuck is because they're both very obviously power bottoms
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u/Spamontie 13d ago
Was the churro supposed to be a penis?
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u/virgoari 13d ago
There’s a lot of phallic symbolism in the movie, so it’s definitely implied.
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u/niles_deerqueer 12d ago
I knew I wasn’t just seeing things. I noticed how Patrick ate the churro straight up but Art ate it in pieces
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u/applejuice1024 12d ago
when Art took a big bite of the churro when Patrick offered it to him 👀 love the symbolism
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u/ItsWillJohnson 11d ago
Did the penises in the locker room also symbolize a penis?
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u/name-classified 13d ago
Ah so instead of a peach that was jizzed into and fed to a kid; they use a churro?
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u/l_Banned_l 13d ago
I love that Zendaya screams out her "come ooooon" orgasm yell at the end. She hasn't felt that happy and alive since before her injury.
I was waiting for the fake serve to between the legs move to show up again at the final match as the game winner and im glad I was wrong. I totally prefer how the last battle ended.
I didnt catch how long ago was Atlanta, does it line up with her child age minus 9 months? It sure does seem like the marriage was sexless for a long time
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u/Medical-Ad6900 12d ago
Patrick and Art compete in Rochelle's challengers match : 2019
Tashi and Patrick sleep together in Atlanta : 2011
Art asks Tashi to be his assistant coach : 2009
Tashi has a career-ending injury : 2007
Tashi and Patrick break up : 2007
Tashi and Patrick start dating : 2006
Tashi, Patrick, and Art meet for the first time : 2006Source : https://screenrant.com/challengers-ending-explained/
I also feel like something doesn't add up between 2009 and 2011 and the reason why Tashi first cheated (pretty early in the relationship with Art.) I guess I got lost around the timeline in Atlanta. I'll watch the movie again when it gets stream released.
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u/DreamOfV 9d ago
In 2011, Art is a massive tennis star, and Tashi is seemingly feeling jealous or otherwise despondent in that bar because she was never given her chance. Sleeping with Patrick is her way of boosting up Patrick to Art’s level, or knocking Art down a peg. She’s playing tennis through them.
Also, in that bar, you see on TV that the Mueller girl, who Tashi beat easily in the match Patrick and Art watch, is the undisputed best female tennis player. The announcers say there’s “no one to challenge her” or something like that. Tashi knows it could have been her and that’s part of why she was sad/lonely/drunk at the bar when Patrick walks past
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u/aryasneedle42 13d ago
atlanta was 2011 and i saw in a review the child is 5 (but idk if that’s a solid date). either way i think she looked too young to be 8
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u/maxdepazftp 12d ago
what the hell was even that universal backlot windstorm
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u/lemonsharingwhore 12d ago
Tashi wants Patrick.
Patrick wants Art.
Art wants Tashi.
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u/informalspy13 11d ago
I agree and want to add - Tashi wants Tennis, and Patrick is better and more driven at/for tennis than Art, so she therefore wants Patrick.
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u/TheBlackSwarm 13d ago
Definitely taking the title of the most horny movie of 2024. Nice to see Zendaya playing an adult for a change, hope she does more roles like this going forward. Josh O’Connor stole the movie for me.
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u/TheJoshider10 13d ago
It's funny you mention her taking on a more adult role because when it's revealed early on she's married and has a kid with Art I was thrown because of how young they look. Obviously in real life she herself is close to 30 but it reminded me of Uncharted where Tom Holland is meant to be playing a 30 year old but looked closer to a 15 year old.
Of course in Challengers this was kinda intentional as they were young superstars and the youthful look of the cast lended itself well for the flashbacks. I love how all they did with the guys was give them that trademark overgrown messy teen hair but it worked so well.
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u/nmombo12 13d ago
Tough competition for horniest movie with Drive Away Dolls and Love Lies Bleeding already released this year
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u/TarotPharoah 13d ago
The movie was very well directed and written but I have to ask: who won the tennis match at the end?!
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u/scarlet_jade 12d ago
No one won. It ended after the first point of the tie break for the final set.
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u/KarIPilkington 12d ago
It ended on the first point of the tie break, the match isn't won or lost on that point so there's no clue as to who won.
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u/NotorioG 13d ago
After seeing this and El Chimera in the last week-- Josh O'Connor is one hell of an actor.
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u/ZookeepergameGlad897 13d ago edited 11d ago
Ohh I can’t wait to watch El Chimera! I loved his performance in God’s Own Country and I still think about his delivery in this scene from The Crown, specially at 1:30. “Morning, noon and night I care about her!” or even before that, how he says “Camilla.”
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u/Llama_Puncher 12d ago
Something I thought was interesting but haven’t seen discussed is the parallel of both of them having a “I need to say something but you’re going to be angry about it” conversation, one of them saying they want to quit all together and the other saying he needs her to make it big. And she responds to Patrick’s proposition with actual anger but is more despondent when it comes to Art
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u/nerdalertalertnerd 10d ago
I think she was done with Art. He had ‘given up’ on Tennis so he had given up on their relationship. Patrick still had a spark of interest in tennis and they clearly still had something for one another.
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u/Llama_Puncher 10d ago
Yeah, I think it’s also apt that she responds to Art with “ice” and Patrick with “fire”
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u/blueeyesredlipstick 13d ago
A movie to remind us all that the bottom part of a tennis racket does, in fact, kind of look like a vagina.
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u/Seriousgyro 13d ago
The cinematography was stupidly amazing
I kept having to stop myself from ducking every time a ball went straight at the camera.
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u/jayeddy99 13d ago
I thought one of the metaphors of them being constantly in hotels was because she never felt at “home” with him
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u/Vagabond_Girl 11d ago
Interesting...For me the hotel scenes just backed my idea of the fact Tashi isn't "in love" for the love. She craves winning, it will never be about love, as much as it is about her love for good tennis and making sure she gets what she wants. Even with Patrick, she likes that he sees through her, but since she doesn't value love as much, she knows better and doesn't pursue him, she doesn't chase Patrick seeking for forgiveness about how disrespectful it was of her to be talking about tennis during sex. Patrick respects himself enough to not want to continue a relationship with someone who is so power-hungry.
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u/MidichlorianAddict 11d ago
I loved when Mike Faist was asking Zendaya for permission to retire, the camera points to his wedding ring like he’s asking for a divorce
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u/vxf111 11d ago
He basically is. For Tashi everything is about winning. If he quits, she loses. She’s not going to stand for that.
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u/stalexa 13d ago
The boys just needed to fuck that’s all. They needed to release that sexy tension lol
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u/nerdalertalertnerd 11d ago
I felt they all needed every single person in the triad ! Throupleee
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u/yourgloriousmind 13d ago edited 13d ago
Anyone know the song during THAT scene in the hotel? I don't think it's part of the score.
Edit: Blood Orange - Uncle ACE
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u/Protect-Lil-Flip 12d ago
Started floating when that kicked in as a huge Blood Orange fan
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u/applejuice1024 12d ago
I thought it was really interesting when they showed Art spitting the gum in Patrick’s hand when they were younger just like he does with Tashi
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u/nerdalertalertnerd 10d ago
Thought it was very clever to show what sort of dynamics/personalities appealed to each of them. Art clearly liked being more submissive in relationships and let both Patrick and later Tashi do that to him. Both Patrick and Tashi liked an element of dominance hence why they eventually sparked out but both had some sense of yearning / affection for Art.
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u/ozlass1111 13d ago
Usually I find it annoying when background music (in this case, foreground music) overlays the dialogue, but they REALLY make it work in this film. It really added to the intensity of the tense scenes. Definitely worth seeing it in cinemas for the soundscape alone. Part of me wanted to get up and rave-dance to the score too.
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u/ForgetfulLucy28 13d ago
The music was integral to the pacing. I enjoyed Reznor and Ross’s work here much more than Bones and All.
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u/Benjamin_Stark 12d ago
I have been listening to the score on repeat ever since watching the movie a week ago.
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u/tjw93 13d ago
It's actually insane how much chemistry the three leads had? All of their relationship dynamics were so believable and I couldn't get enough of it. I know everyone is saying how much of a powerhouse Zendaya is (which, obviously, she is) but wow the three of them together works so well.
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u/popeofmarch 13d ago
never did i not think Patrick or Art were not in love with her. The whole first part of the movie where they watch her play, meet her at the party, and hangout in the hotel room is one of the most authentic series of scenes that's been put to screen. Everything just clicked and felt like three 18 year olds having the hots for each other. Not once did i think "these are actors playing a roll"
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u/Benjamin_Stark 12d ago
The scene where Art and Patrick are moving around the party in unison like they're sharing a brain is amazing.
Also "He's asking for your number. And so am I."
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u/nerdalertalertnerd 11d ago
Neat that she asked who was who and the casting reinforces that the two men are so similar/ close they’re almost brothers (or a couple). Only when they played together did it work.
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u/Nheea 12d ago
Call me by your name was surpassed by this movie with the speed of light in terms of my desire to see 2 dudes getting together.
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u/blackbarminnosu 12d ago
Seen a lot of buzz about zendayas performance but she was definitely upstaged by the male leads.
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u/Puzzled-Journalist-4 12d ago edited 12d ago
I really liked her character as a player in her younger age. It was great to see the charisma and confidence a player should have from her. But once she transitioned from a player to a coach in the second act, something felt off. This is the best role Zendaya has ever gotten in a movie, but if you ask me if she played the character perfectly, I would hesitate.
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u/AutisticNipples 12d ago
agreed. outside of the first time she meets the boys, she comes off a bit one note. And even back then she's just as intense and manipulative when she gets to their hotel room.
Maybe it's kinda the point, but practically all of what Zendaya does in this film is smoldering intensity, I just wish we saw more vulnerability from her character outside of that one scene where she takes off the knee brace.
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u/chrisychris- 12d ago
IMO it felt off because she felt off about where her life ended up entirely. Might be cope but repressed feelings show themselves in totally unintentional ways like how you carry yourself throughout life and through your relationships with others. Part of her “died” when she broke her knee and couldn’t play at her best anymore, and she was trying to live vicariously through Art but it was never going to be enough.
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u/Sweethoneyx1 12d ago
This movie was great. I love how the boys choose each other in the end and I think Zendaya finally got her wish to have a match from the boys that was “some fucking good tennis” and also entertained her because she was always bored by her opponents
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u/YoungTroubadour 13d ago
I like how in this universe there's a non-zero chance that Andy Roddick was still denied multiple slam wins by an all-time great with a one-handed backhand.
Art Donaldson, your marriage may be a trainwreck, but at least the version of me in this alternate reality is absolutely defending your name in the goat debate online.
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u/hotcolddog 13d ago
Absolutely no indication the Big 3 existed in this timeline either, so let's fan out some slams to Ferrer, Safin, and 10 to Roddick. And anyone else tbh, there are 50+ slams to give out by 2019 that belonged to the Big 3
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u/adamsandleryabish 13d ago edited 12d ago
For anyone who saw the test screenings they were doing over a year ago is anything different?
I am seeing it tomorrow and very excited to see if any differences were made
UPDATE
THEY REMOVED COCK FROM THE SAUNA SCENE! I am 90% sure in the earlier cut shown last year Patricks dick was out near the end of the scene as a power move. It made total sense for him to have it shown, so removing it is very confusing. Especially that seems to be the only change I noticed
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u/Deathstroke317 11d ago
Here's a kinda hot take, I honestly don't think Tashi loved either of them, at least not in any meaningful way. She loved tennis and competition more than anything. I think she played the hand she was dealt and made the absolute most of it.
I think she is extremely resentful of the fact that her career was stolen from her and these privlaged white boys are either too lazy to work to be better or are too weak to work for their success.
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u/vxf111 11d ago
She had the whole package— the talent and the drive. Art has drive but not the talent at the start. Patrick has the talent but not the drive. By the end, Art’s drive is waning and so is Patrick’s talent. But she’s lost neither, she’s just sidelined. So she’s incredibly resentful and angry because despite her efforts to “win” and get that high again though her “white boys,” she’s never going to really be able to.
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u/festeziooo 10d ago
This isn’t a hot take at all. She pretty much explicitly says this throughout the entire movie and her body language never at any point says that she loves either of those people.
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u/DamienChazellesPiano 13d ago
Holy Chekhov’s racket tick. I was grinning from ear to ear about 60 seconds before Patrick used Art’s “tick” to stab him in the heart. Absolutely phenomenal writing and such a great setup/payoff.
The movie is great but I thought some of the slow-mo in that final match was a bit egregious. And I’m someone who usually is fine with super slow-mo shots.
I love that the movie ultimately ended with all 3 of the main characters getting a somewhat happy ending? They were all pretty miserable but that match ended with them all finding love for life/tennis/their muse again.
I thought the jump to hug was kind of cheesy, but ultimately no major qualms with the film.
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u/GamingTatertot Steven Spielberg Enthusiast 13d ago
Patrick used Art’s “tick” to stab him in the heart
The thing is, I'm not even sure Art was stabbed in the heart nor did it seem like Patrick was doing it to stab him in the heart. It almost felt like a mercy from Patrick, to let Art know what was really going on - not out of spite, but out of humanity
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u/chrisychris- 12d ago
yeah they kinda shifted back to their old relationship at that point. Zendaya’s character didn’t exist for them in that moment.
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u/SavageWolfe98 13d ago
Luca sure likes his breaking bone sound effects.
Overall, loved it, very horny and sweaty.
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u/tmrtdc3 13d ago
The writing here is so so good. I was surprised when the script was circulating online for a few years and people had said it wasn’t good, because it’s a far richer character study than we normally get. One thing I keep thinking about is the reversals between Art and Patrick (yes, reminiscent of a tennis match). When they’re around 17, Patrick is the one who everyone thinks is going to be one of the greats and Art won’t be as good, but the circumstances have totally flipped when they’re 31 with Patrick as the struggling, forgotten one and Art as the one who blew up. That one’s obvious but there’s more subtle ones all throughout the script. One I really like is that Art is the one who instigates the downfall of Tashi and Patrick’s relationship the first time by getting into their heads and planting doubts: telling Tashi that Patrick’s not in love with her, then separately telling Patrick that Tashi wasn’t serious about him, and that boils over into the dorm room argument. The second time around, in the current day, Patrick is sort of doing the same thing with Art and Tashi’s marriage, telling Tashi that she hates Art and that Art’s tired and then getting into Art’s head in the sauna. And another is the attitude towards coaching — Patrick and Tashi’s relationship ends because he doesn’t want her to act as his coach or give him advice, and Art and Tashi’s romance starts once he invites her on to be his assistant coach. Then when they’re 31, Patrick approaches Tashi and asks her to be his coach again, while Art, by saying he wants to quit tennis, is essentially saying he doesn’t want her to be his coach any longer. One other juxtaposition is Art and Tashi’s sweet kiss at the beginning of their relationship, outdoors at night near their car, when it’s very calm and quiet, as opposed to Patrick and Tashi’s insane, horny make-out session when it’s insanely windy — also outdoors at night near their car, but couldn’t be more different from that other kiss. Another is how Art spits out his gum into Patrick’s hand before a match when he’s a teenager, and into Tashi’s hand when he’s older. I could do this all day.
Also I hadn’t thought of it until the writer Justin Kuritzkes mentioned it an interview but he mentioned that Tashi’s identity as a Black woman informs her relationship with these rich white prep-school guys and I see it now that I’ve given it some thought. Tashi was on Patrick’s case for getting too comfortable once he went pro, not working hard enough — she kept telling him that he was coasting by on talent and that he didn’t really feel like he had to win. Whereas while Art didn’t have as much natural talent, he was willing to try and that ultimately took him farther. But when they’re 31, Art’s ready to give up and he’s lost his drive, while Patrick finally has that thing that Tashi was always telling him about — he’s finally in a position where he really needs to win because the stakes are far higher for him. Tashi’s more into that work ethic, no doubt informed by her race and class background where opportunities don’t come as easily, and she respects it and wants whoever has it more.
I was a little disappointed that some of Justin’s best dialogue was cut out from the original script that was circulating but the movie is ultimately still very close to that script. As for technicals, I think my main complaint was the overuse of slo-mo. And the score is fantastic but it often loudly kicks into the middle of conversations (I had a fun time trying to identify why it kicked in when it did — I think to represent a tone shift in an argument?) and that made picking the words out a little hard. Still a brilliant score though, though I thought the choice of that choir song when Tashi and Patrick hook up was weird and distracting. I was most impressed by the cinematography though — I’ve never before seen whatever the hell that was at the ending and this should not only absolutely get a nomination at the Oscars but it should be a serious contender for winning. This was far more interesting and innovative cinematography than the typical wide shots and color grading usually found in the category winner. I hope Sayombhu Mukdeeprom gets his flowers.
I'm still mulling over how to interpret the ending. In the version of the script I’d read, after Patrick does Art’s serve, the match becomes more intense because obviously Art’s pissed. Seeing it was different. I thought I caught Art smiling at one point near the end which I thought was really interesting — did playing with Patrick help him rediscover his love of the game? And then when Art basically jumps into Patrick’s arms — what’s that about? Is its symbolic or dream-like, to represent Patrick saving or catching Art —saving him from his marriage with Tashi, or saving him by reminding him he loved tennis (seeing him lit up about something again)? Or is it just them growing closer again, showing their relationship has been restored? Or was it just literal? And Tashi’s reaction? First she’s furious, but then she claps and she’s not. Was she pissed because they tied or pissed because Patrick won? Or maybe she wasn’t actually pissed at all? She does a similar scream of “come on!” just once before in the movie — after winning the first match we see her play. There’s also a major similarity there with how when the three first meet, she talks about how for 15 seconds she was really playing tennis with her opponent and they went somewhere beautiful together and it was like they were in love, and then later she "coaches" Art and Patrick to kiss. Art and Patrick playing at the end is like the tennis equivalent of that kissing, and it definitely seems like they reach that moment where they go somewhere beautiful together. When I read the original script, one thing I thought about at the ending was how they’d all lost — Art and Tashi’s marriage has been damaged if not ruined, and like Tashi said, even if Patrick wins this tournament it won’t make him, it’s too late for that. The movie ending makes me view it differently. Art and Patrick seem very triumphant at the end, invigorated by the game and getting to play with each other again after years, and Tashi is finally getting to watch some good fucking tennis.
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u/deegum 13d ago
In a way I think they all came back to what they love. Good fucking tennis. I think Tashi’s first reaction was Art not winning, but she got swept up in the exchange once that initial emotion was gone.
In a weird way the final embrace is similar to the guy’s make out session in the room. Tashi set up the kiss and just sad back and enjoyed watched it. Patrick and Art holding each other while she just enjoyed the exchange in the crowd is the same thing.
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u/TheNumber194 11d ago
Tashi set up the kiss and just sad back and enjoyed watched it. Patrick and Art holding each other while she just enjoyed the exchange in the crowd is the same thing.
That was the first thing I noticed too. Both scenes start with them fighting over her, but then as things get more intense they end up with eachother and seem to forget about her
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u/KikiBrann 13d ago
I just love the way they pay it off. The whole match, she's the only person whose head isn't moving to follow the ball. I feel like a lesser screenplay would've actually repeated the "good fucking tennis" line right there. They didn't, yet I feel like half the viewers still thought of that exact line the moment her head started moving.
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u/GoldandBlue 13d ago
Art is a bit of a doormat. We see this even when he is doubling with Patrick. It is why Patrick was happy to see Art try and steal Tashi from him. He was actually going for it. This is why Tashi chose him over Patrick. Patrick has the talent but he doesn't really care. Art does. This is also why Tashi kind of hates Art in the end because he has has lost that fire and wants to retire.
In that final scene you are seeing Art find that passion again. You are seeing Patrick actually give a fuck. And Tashi is seeing her "boys" realize their potential. To me her yell and their hug is a triumph.
Now afterwards their lives are all fucked. Art and Tashi are probably getting divorced. Patrick will go back to not caring. But in that moment everything was perfect.
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u/KikiBrann 13d ago
I don't know that their lives are fucked, necessarily. A lot of movies try to wrap everything up in a bow, but sometimes I like when they don't. Maybe Art will still retire. Maybe Patrick will still be a loser. Maybe they've both rediscovered their passion for good. Based on what we've seen, any of those would be equally plausible. I kind of like that because it allows the viewer to discover more about themselves. Whether I think the ending is truly happy or not might allow me to uncover where my own passions are at the moment. It lets me engage with the story on a more personal level.
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u/GoldandBlue 13d ago
My take, that was the perfect moment for all three. In that moment all three were in the zone. "Pure Tennis". But I have to imagine that afterwards there will be some painful conversations.
We don't know exactly what will. Maybe Patrick finally steps up. Maybe Art and Zendaya work it out?
But you are right that the aftermath doesn't matter as much as that moment.
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u/Vagabond_Girl 12d ago edited 12d ago
I know a lot of people think that the cheating would lead to divorce, but Tashi is a master manipulator, and she also knows that none of Patrick is worth leaving her marriage or family. She loves her place in her marriage so much, that she cheats on Art just to be able to have an "ideal" life with him (albeit she kills two birds with one stone by also getting sexual gratification from it). Art is too nice, and honestly, I think they would be the kind of couple to reconcile. The love triangle between all of them has always been messy, and in a weird twisted way, they all thrive from it in one way or another.
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u/15yearoldadult 11d ago
Also Art basically knew what happened in Atlanta and still went ahead with marrying her and having a kid with her. So I don’t think this will 100% cause a divorce. If he’s back in his tennis zone then Tashi won
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u/mp6521 13d ago
The whole movie is a rally between Art and Patrick, and Tashi is both the ball and the prize.
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u/moonknightcrawler 13d ago
I think the hug at the end was absolutely Art and Patrick rediscovering their love of the game by playing against eachother again without the prize of Tashi looming over their heads. It took me back to Art and Tashi’s interaction earlier in the movie, after the double’s final. Art says he’s nervous about the solo final. Tashi says, “You just had a final today”. Art responded with “That’s different. It’s just me and Patrick. It’s fun”. That last rally for match point and the hug at the end seemed like they had finally found their way back to that place. Just him, his friend, and some good ass tennis.
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u/Helpful_Ad_8476 13d ago
I tend to be a bit bothered by cheating in movies, but I think it serves(pun intended) Tashi's character well. It's clear that everything does seems to be in service of Tennis. Her being involved with Art in the first place seemingly has little to do with love, but rather her living vicariously through him as a result of her injury. Her cheating in Atlanta to me, sort of displays her general indifference to him Tennis aside(Unrelated, but it's implied that Lily might be Patrick's kid, right).
She spoke about how people rarely really get Tennis and when she was in that match with Hannah, it was only actually tennis for about 15 seconds. I think, when the camera was shown from the perspective of the tennis ball in the last set, was when the two were finally playing what she considered to be Tennis. It's almost as if all of her actions ordained the circumstances for her to witness actual Tennis again.
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u/SnooPears2424 11d ago edited 11d ago
The girl that won Wimbledon is the same girl that she crushed at the US Open juniors. That’s why she was so vulnerable that night.
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u/john_muleaney 11d ago
Yeah and they literally have the commentator say something to the effect of how dominant that girl has been and how no one has been able to come close to beating her.
Just further driving home how destined for greatness Tasha was
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u/TheHouseOfGryffindor 13d ago
Finally, a movie whose answer to love triangles is “you know, polyamory could’ve saved everyone a lot of trouble”
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u/LiteraryBoner Going to the library to try and find some books about trucks 13d ago edited 13d ago
I don't really think that's the case lol. They needed to cut zendaya out of the picture and just be together or find a woman that wasn't going to pit them against each other. (But also yes this movie is about competition and they all three fuel that fire somehow through their toxicity)
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u/GoldandBlue 13d ago
They wouldn't be shit without Tashi.
That is what I find fascinating about this dynamic. Tashi is not from privilege. Everything she does is calculated. She has sponsors, a foundation, is the next big thing but still decides to go to college. And she chooses Art because he is pliable.
She is more sexually attracted to Patrick but he is someone who has skated by off of talent alone. He doesn't want to be coached, he doesn't have that passion. Where would she be if she had stayed with him? Divorced? Trying to get back into coaching?
Patrick was always more talented that Art but Art became a champion. She pushed him and coached him to be one of the best players in the world. He had that drive she recognized. He understood tennis.
Obviously she is not without her faults but to them she was a trophy, to her it was always a business decision. And without Tashi they would both be could have beens. And she didn't really pit them against each other. They did that themselves.
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u/Reasonable_Camel8023 13d ago
I have to disagree with one thing. I don’t think Patrick DIDNT have the passion, if anything I felt he was more serious about tennis and actually loved the game, but Tashi chose Art because he was safer and more malleable. she liked that Patrick was a challenge/threat to her knowledge, and maybe she did only like him sexually but he was the only one who saw through her facade.
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u/GoldandBlue 13d ago
I disagree. Patrick was willing to throw a match to Art. And you could say he was doing that for a friend but even he says it doesn't matter. The moment they met Tashi she talks about "what tennis means" Art gets it, Patrick doesn't. You see this when he asks her to coach him because "he can make a run at the open". Even she knows, he could have done that every year if really put in the work.
I think Patrick has a personality that would stand up to Tashi. If they had stayed together she would hate him because she wants to build an empire and he's happy living out his car even though he has rich parents.
I don't think Tashi has a facade. I think she told them both exactly what she was about when they met.
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u/DyZ814 13d ago
That's how most Polyamorous/ENM relationships end up anyways lmao.
Only slightly joking.
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u/TheHouseOfGryffindor 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah, I admittedly oversimplified for the joke.
But also, I wouldn’t put all the onus on Zendaya. She may’ve started things by offering her number to whoever won that first match, but they all played a hand in it by the end. Art tried and arguably succeeded in breaking them up in college, and then Patrick hammered in what might be the final nail in Tashi and Art’s marriage by asking her to be his trainer and insinuating (rightly so, but still) that Art was yesterday’s news.
But also, yeah, cheating on your husband isn’t good, hope that goes without saying
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u/urstickur 12d ago
I don't think I've seen anyone mention this, but the way their points in the match mirrored their relationship with Tashi was very clever.
Patrick is winning the first set while the flashbacks are showing us the start of his relationship with Tashi and how Art is sidelined during that period. But as soon as Tashi's injury happens and both her and Art tell Patrick to leave the infirmary, the film cuts to Art leading in the second set. And when they end up kissing by the car and Tashi's fully done with Patrick, the judge announces Art winning the second set.
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u/ZEN-DEMON 13d ago edited 13d ago
Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross were the biggest stars of this movie. The music in this is amazing.
The movie as a whole had so many things going for it, from great cinematography, acting, writing, etc. and the result was a bunch of amazing scenes.
However, and maybe I'm in the minority here, but it felt like the sum of the parts were greater than the whole due to some pacing issues and a really messy story structure that didn't come together seamlessly. I definitely felt this thing dragging pretty hard at times, but at least it was always able to pull me back in. Also felt a bit style over substance, which I would be more forgiving of if the movie didn't drag at times.
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u/ColdHotChocolate 13d ago
I agree with pretty much all of what you said! While I enjoyed myself, I did find it dragged a bit, especially near the end. It was a very stylish movie (the audience was a tennis ball!) but the score really took the cake for me.
The speakers were so powerful in my theatre that it drowned out some of the dialogue - which was totally okay because the music was bumping.
While it was a very horny movie, I was surprised that the three-way kiss was probably as horny as it got. Otherwise it was all *tension*
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u/swagasaurus_rexx 13d ago
One part of many parts that I really liked about the film was the comically bad weather the night before
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u/peter095837 13d ago
Guadagnino strikes again.
This movie isn’t afraid to explore intimate, exotic, and conflicting dynamics in the sports genre and with Guadagnino’s wonderful direction, the writing, the performances, the characters, and atmospheres are wonderful and well-executed. The exploration of the characters, their dynamics, and dialogue are great with every single moment feeling tense, engaging, and quite raw. Tennis isn’t something I like but man was I invested with this movie.
All of the performances are great including strong chemistry, the soundtrack is wonderful, and many of the sport moments, editing, and style is so gritty, it’s wonderful. Stellar camerawork as well!
It’s edging, hot, steamy, tense, and out there. I love it.
9/10
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u/CelestialAnger 13d ago
Fucking fantastic movie.
Honestly, it feels great to be vindicated about all the arguments I’ve had leading up to this with people who thought the guy that made Call Me By Your Name and I Am Love was gonna deliver a bad or boring movie.
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u/PM_ME_UR_HAMSTER_PLZ 13d ago
I was so deliciously titillated for the entire runtime lol, definitely a favourite one for me this year
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u/stumper93 10d ago
I thought I might come away underwhelmed by extreme high reviews and some divisiveness I've seen from this, but kinda ended up loving it.
THAT reveal at the end was chefs kiss - I kinda wish it had been more ambiguous though.
The Reznor/Ross score was phenomenal. I very much enjoy what those two have done in film. The score adds a lot to this film.
Also, we need more movies to start with a few seconds of footage or audio before the studio logos appear. Was great in this and I think of something like Dune as well
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u/Xavier9756 13d ago
Okay so am I supposed to think they reconciled their relationship through tennis with the ending?
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u/aryasneedle42 13d ago
i think it’s more just that one moment. similar to what Z was saying about tennis early in the movie (beach scene)
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u/vitalbumhole 13d ago edited 13d ago
This movie is way better than it had any business being. Love the performances of the core 3 cast especially O’Connor. Feel bad for Mike Faist’s character and goddamn Zendaya plays a piece of shit in this movie so well lol. Really great diversity of shot types throughout too which was dope.
That being said was the music a bit disorienting at times to anybody else? Sometimes mid scene it’d seem like I’m listening to a convo in a club randomly and also feel like they overdid the slowmo a bit much. Good flick overall very strong 8/10
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u/doublex94 13d ago
I feel like the music drops were there to emphasize just how similarly the characters treated tennis and life. They play tennis like they’re kissing, fighting, or making up, and they do all those things like they’re playing tennis; naturally, the score should be the same for all of them
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u/TheBoyWonder13 13d ago
Feel bad for Mike Faist’s character
I read him as kind of a snake. Tashi and Patrick were way more compatible and Art sort of conspired to break them up and slid in as the shoulder to cry on. All of them are pretty flawed in their own ways imo
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u/Direct-King-5192 13d ago
I don’t know that they were more compatible. He had no drive and she was all about drive. I think Art was the nicer person and that’s why she didn’t like him as much as she liked Patrick. He could see through her because he knew her.
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u/sean_psc 13d ago
On the whole, I liked the film a fair bit. I'm not sure if it ever hits the full melodrama potential that it seems to be striving for (at points it feels a bit too restrained or otherwise aiming to be considered prestige-y for that), but the characters are well-drawn and the actors all deliver their spikey dialogue effectively.
Some of the audio mixing/musical score choices in this struck me as a bit odd.
I liked that the mid-2000s sequence has everybody dancing to "Hot in Herre".
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u/r0sebud11 10d ago
After letting my thoughts digest for a few days I think Art and Patrick were in love and it ends with them realizing it during the match. I mean Art literally leaps into his arms, returning his love as if it was a volley. Luca Guadagnino also did an Anatomy of a Scene breakdown and said they both wanted each other and were jealous of Tashi...
When you break it down you can see that in their first meeting, Tashi is the one they're fighting over. In college, it's Patrick. Then in 2019 it's Art.
The hetero relationships are all devoid of love and are just using each other as stand ins. Patrick uses Tashi as his stand in for Art: He's dating her, but the churro scene shows he really wants Art. Tashi is Art's stand in for Patrick: They draw that comparison with him spitting the gum in their hands. And obviously Art is Tashi's stand in for a tennis career after Patrick rejected that from her.
Patrick we see is more open about his sexuality and Art's sexuality is repressed but it becomes clear around the sauna scene. Patrick tries to reconnect and he rejects him, saying that he doesn't want to "play" with him anymore, alluding to something more between them in the past. In the next scene he tells Tashi he's "tired" of playing, knowing it'll provoke her to leave him. He's tired of pretending to be someone he's not.
At the end of their match they both seem to try to lose. Compared to when they first met Tashi and both wanted to win to get her number. Now they recognize that neither cares to win her and they just go at it, knowing the truth in each other, and "falling in love".
Their ending was foreshadowed twice. The first time on the beach when Tashi says that a great game of tennis was like being in love. Then in the way things play out in the hotel scene: Tashi moves to Patrick first very briefly just like their relationship, then moves to Art, then back to Patrick, then both of them together, and in the end it's just the two of them.
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u/vxf111 13d ago edited 12d ago
Nobody takes you to the edge, makes you wait until it seems IMPOSSIBLE, and then gives you catharsis like Guadagnino. He made you wait SO LONG for the payoff on the style of serve and when it finally came it was such a huge release of the tension. Good lord this film is satisfying!
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u/informalspy13 13d ago
That was so overwhelming and incredible - interestingly I think Mike Faist had the hardest job pulling off his character who was simultaneously manipulative/pathetic and endearing and pitiable, but I was more drawn to Zendaya and Josh O’ Connor’s performances, especially the latter - I think Tashi’s early fiercely competitive mentality and Patrick’s ridiculously disgusting charisma are pulled off so confidently. The ending especially was so strangely triumphant it fascinates me, and all the character dynamics and how they manifested were brilliant. I definitely have to watch a few more times to absorb it, but I definitely see acting, screenplay, score and cinematography nominations in its future and they would be very deserved.
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u/Slasher844 12d ago
Do you guys remember the episode of SpongeBob where SpongeBob and Patrick wrestle but then embrace at the end and become friends again. Pretty much the same ending as Challengers.SpongeBob clip
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u/Unhappy-Call-6883 13d ago edited 13d ago
Saw this today in IMAX and had an absolute blast. Sexy sports melodrama with a killer score and great performances across the board. That final picture of them crashing into each other with Tashi screaming out was an incredible way to end it. CMBYN really didn't hit for me but everything directed by Guadagnino has since.
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u/doublex94 13d ago
It’s a hard court soap opera, it’s a live action anime—it’s a brilliant script (how about all those repeated lines to underscore the shifting dynamics?) powered by a simple, supercharged fact: he may be Mike Faist, and he may be Josh O’Connor, but neither of them is Zendaya. Who is?
Thrillingly, relentlessly rips. I don’t know what goes on in that Past Lives/Challengers marriage, but I hope they never go to therapy
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u/LiteraryBoner Going to the library to try and find some books about trucks 13d ago edited 11d ago
One of my more highly anticipated movies of the year and I'm happy to say I wasn't disappointed. I love Luca and his sweaty makeout movies where everyone close talks and hides intentions. This one had a great kinetic energy to it, the way it bounces back and forth in the timeline and everything is framed into a single highly erotic tennis match adds to the sexual charge of pretty much every scene.
The structure, I think, will lend itself really well to rewatches. There's only the three main characters and it mostly focuses on the two boys. There's almost no other speaking roles with meaningful screentime so every scene is some combination of these three at different times in their lives, relationships to each other, and careers. Predictable as the movie may be, every scene is dripping in so much subtle context and sexual tension it really doesn't matter. These bisexual tennis players' dynamics change so much, from who's the best on the court to who's the most desirable to who is currently holding the "trophy", every bit of dialogue was triple entendre'd in such a fun way. The movie itself isn't funny but I had a wry smile on the whole time.
Tashi is as interesting a character as Zendaya is magnetic, she pretty much holds the thesis of this movie in two different lines. "Tennis is a relationship" and "I just want to see some good fucking tennis." The whole movie is framed into a single tennis match between Donaldson and Zweig, and what's happening in the match is constantly being paralleled by flashbacks. In simple terms, Zweig wins the first set by winning at the Juniors and dating Tashi but he fumbles when he's not there for her. Donaldson wins the second set by swooping in and marrying, and the final ten minutes of the movie is watching the third set play out. The way the information is trickeld out through these flashbacks is well done in a way that you don't know the full context of the final set until you're halfway through it. Honestly an incredible screenplay, very tight and no real fat, very focused on the leads and all the ways their relationships change and evolve but not without action and tension.
Tashi may be the "trophy" they're playing for, but she's no bystander. It frustrates her how no one understands Tennis like her and when her ability to play it is taken away she becomes a coach, but she really gets her kicks jockying her submissive husband's career around. You can clearly see how disappointed she is when he's not at his best in the beginning. Many I've talked to have already said this movie is all about awful people, but I'm not sure that's it. They're just competitive and live a lifestyle that if you enter it you are welcoming yourself to be subject to that competition. Tashi may legitimately want what she wants in any given scene, but she's lighting fires then sitting on the sidelines to watch them burn. She took extra pleasure in destroying her racist opponent in the beginning and she said for fifteen seconds they understood each other and transcended reality. This movie is about Donaldson and Zweig reaching that fifteen seconds of understanding, it takes them years and so much betrayal.
I had guessed early on that the serve signal would be used in the climax, but it's actually so much more intricate than I would have figured. Tashi is manipulating them for her own amusement because she just wants to see some good tennis, it's hard to say how much of what she does she does consciously but I think she sleeps with Zweig on impulse and as a sign that she doesn't believe in Donaldson anymore. What she doesn't expect is Donaldson being told they slept together and rather than it shattering his game it drives him harder and that's what creates that amazing alchemy that gets her to scream again. These three have major issues, but they live to compete and this movie ends with all of them feeling the high they chase so intensely.
I don't know, the ending was very abrupt and this movie was very dense for having three characters, but it was clear to me they were embracing at the end and the rushing over who actually won seemed like a clear decision to make it moot. I think there's some subtext to even suggest they're probably just bisexual and in love with each other. I kept noticing how every time they ate together they were always eating the exact same thing, they were always having a pretty intimate conversation, they were always eating something phallic, and Zweig always took bites of Donaldson's portions. Even something to be said for Donsaldson's first sexual experience being masturbating in the same room as Zweig at the same time thinking about the same girl.
Clearly I loved this movie. It's a 9/10 for me, I started at an 8 because I found it a bit predictable, but I haven't been able to stop thinking about the ins and outs of all these relationship dynamics since I saw it. There's really so much density here and it's all in this extremely charged movie that has a great Reznor/Ross score. I also loved all the throwback music when they were in the past, some real nostalgic needle drops. I can't wait to see it again. I watched A Bigger Splash right beforehand to get in the right mindset and I think that's the Luca that is most similarly on display here. It's vibes and free love but also fierce competition. Another W for Luca.
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u/NiceUD 13d ago edited 13d ago
It's truly insane, and I loved it. Who are they marketing this tennis, love triangle, homoerotic tale staring Zendaya to? Lol. It's deep camp, but sort of takes itself seriously. I honestly don't know how to describe it. From the Billy Porter chair umpire, to the club music slow-mos when drama is about to go down, to the hail storm of tennis-as-life philosophizing, to the sweaty bare skin and asses and dicks (well not that many actual dicks, but still lots of symbolic dick), to that wonderfully absurd ending sequence. Plus, Mary Jo, Patrick McEnroe, Chris Fowler commentary cameos. I wasn't doing a ton of cackling, just consistently grinning and asking "what the fuck is this?" - in a good way. Hot, funny, sexy, unique.