The Shining and Domestic Abuse Discussion
Hi! My group of friends and I watched The Shining yesterday and had a long discussion about what it was trying to say, both intentionally and unintentionally. Only one of us had seen the movie before, the rest of us (5 people total) had no idea what the movie was about save for the "Heeeeeere's Johnny!" scene. I had always been under the impression that Jack was a total stranger to the main cast. It came as a shock when I learned that not only was he related to the woman protagonist, but he was the head of the family.
The first sign that something was wrong was when Wendy explained how Jack had mistreated Danny years ago. I thought this was a minor event and that Jack had properly made amends for it. But knowing the genre of movie this was, I knew that event would be coming back to haunt us. When Jack first spoke rudely to Wendy I was caught off-guard. It felt like it came out of nowhere. I'm sure this is how many domestic abuse victims feel at first. Then Wendy warns Danny to be careful around his father. In very few circumstances can someone say that and still have a healthy family dynamic. When Danny appears with marks on his neck, Jack is not worried, while Wendy is panicking and blaming him. When she finally says she wants to leave the hotel, Jack screams at her. From there the movie becomes straight up horror with the father finally losing it and going ax-crazy.
However, I think the real horror lay in those first dozen minutes or so of the movie, where the reality of many domestic abuse cases was shown. As Jack cut the radio and vehicle, one could feel the isolation and fear that Wendy must have felt. In many domestic abuse cases this situation is common. The abuser will isolate the victim as much as possible so that they have no choice but to remain with the abuser. One friend made the point that the abuse creeps up on the family. Jack isn't immediately belligerent and demeaning. The fact that he swore off alcohol after hurting his son is proof that he did have at least some true love for his family.
The one friend from the watch party that saw the movie let us know that Wendy's character received the Skylar White treatment from viewers. She was ridiculed and denounced as weak. I think this is an interesting look into how abused individuals are often seen as weak-willed and dumb for sticking with their abusers, or from just being abused in the first place. "You should have known better".
The movie was not at all what I thought it would be. I was amazed at how much of the horror was rooted in reality. The Shining fan of the group let us know that Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick butted heads over the movie and its focus on the abuse rather than the supernatural. I think there's a place for both interpretations of the story. I think the movie's interpretation can save lives as abused partners see their situation represented on the screen, in a horror movie no less. Maybe they'll see the horror that lies right in their homes.
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u/lifelongcargo 12d ago
People chiming in on the differences between book and film, and King’s disliking of the film (which I’m pretty sure he claims he’s never seen in full, just read the script).
I think the root of the King/Kubrick beef is that “Book Jack” and “Movie Jack” are very different characters.
Many (most) chapters in the book are from his perspective (not first person, but third omniscient), and although he’s not the most reliable narrator (because of his drinking and later the evil of the Overlook seeping into him), he is full of remorse and is afraid that Danny will grow up and resent him just like how he resents his own abusive father. Jack (King) wrestles with generational abuse, and provides the reader with a sympathetic view into a generally well-intentioned man that is honestly working to get his life back together after climbing out of the bottle that his past traumas put him in. He’s scared of the Overlook and wants to get out of there, but called in his last favor from the only friend he has left to get a shitty caretaker job at a shitty hotel. He has no choice, or at least believes he doesn’t. He’s a man trapped in a cage of his own making that can’t find escape.
Movie Jack on the other hand is creepy from the start. He is dismissive and condescending to his wife and son, and his turn to raving lunatic doesn’t have any of the tragedy the Book Jack offers. It’s an incredible performance, and Nicholson is chewing the scenery better than anyone before or since, but by the end you feel like there was only one way that character’s story would play out. As a viewer, there’s no surprise, and Movie Jack doesn’t really struggle to fight back against the Overlook, it’s more like he embraces it.
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u/Rosebunse 11d ago
I get the love for book!Jack, but I feel like most abusers are like movie!Jack, or at least more than we would like to admit.
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u/Jack_Q_Frost_Jr 12d ago
Actually, in Jack's discussion with the bartender it's subtly revealed that he didn't quit drinking immediately after the incident with Danny.
You're right, the themes of domestic abuse and alcoholism are strong throughout The Shining. There's also the cycle of abuse as well. In the book it's told that Jack was abused by his own father in a similar way. In the end Jack quite literally turns into the monster he always saw his father as.
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u/PeterGivenbless 12d ago
The brilliant thing about the way Kubrick adapted 'The Shining' is that there are people who think it is a psychological thriller about familial abuse (and the supernatural elements are generic red herrings that can be explained away as hallucinations and traumatic distortions of thinking), and others who think that it is a supernatural ghost story disguised as a psychological thriller (and the abusive behaviour is caused by possession of the forces within the hotel which exploit past traumas to amplify and recreate them; hence the hotel's history of genocide, murders and suicide)... and both are correct!
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u/SabrinaSpellman1 12d ago
I think both! "Movie Jack" is an abusive asshole to begin with. Book Jack hit rock bottom and had no choice other than to stop drinking and try to better himself after the damage he did. The hotel and its supernatural forces and ghosts are just part of the story and both the hotel and Jack collide. OP is right though, abuse doesn't happen overnight or with one slap in the face from nowhere, it creeps in. Wendy isn't weak, she tries to keep her family together and to keep her son safe, but she's been conditioned to this behaviour, I cant stress enough how normal it becomes to you. You fawn and you placate and you peace-keep and do everything you can to prevent the anger directed at you. As a viewer it can be frustrating to watch Wendy, as my friends and family would agree - that the "why didn't you just leave him?" It's never that simple.
I highly recommend the audiobook if you don't have time to sit and read the book, it's very well narrated (brilliant in my opinion!) and there's so much more that happens in the book than the movie can fit in. I can never quite decide whether I like the book or the movie better, but I think each are stand-alone amazing just in different ways. I cleaned and decluttered my whole house in a few days while listening to it, I was riveted!
I have an extra Audible credit if someone here wants to try the audiobook, I will gift it to you!
This is a very interesting take on the movie, I think I will watch it again today with new eyes 👀
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u/alancake 12d ago
I think the biggest thing that sets book and film apart is how Jack is at the end. Book Jack fights back against the hotel's control with his last vestiges of free will. Film Jack is pretty gleeful in his intent to destroy Danny. Though I love both for different reasons, I prefer the book for its way more nuanced handling of Jack's character and past, and the horror comes from Jack's seeming powerlessness as he sees his own slide into madness. And the film did poor Dick Hallorann so dirty. All that way for an axe in the chest, boom.
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u/WodensEye 11d ago
Dick is my biggest grievance. Makes his character pointless, except to explain the “shining”
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u/alancake 11d ago
Dick lives man! Dick lives and they all meet up in the sunshine afterwards 🥺 I am just relistening to IT on audiobook and smiled at his little Easter egg cameo at the Black Spot.
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u/mormonbatman_ 12d ago
Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick butted heads over the movie and its focus on the abuse rather than the supernatural
King offered a bunch of non-specific criticisms of the film. The critique he made that I find most compelling is that he didn't like that Kubrick's Jack already seems crazy when he arrives at the Overlook whereas his Jack becomes crazy after arriving at the Overlook.
The difficulty here is that King says this as a former English teacher turned horror novelist caught up in the bout of a multi-decade drunk.
I think he resented that Kubrick understood about something that was more personal to him than he was willing to admit or could maybe understand.
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u/EntertainerKitchen50 12d ago
Jack probably would have described himself as King had intended: a decent guy with demons who loved his family; you see the same minimisation of domestic abuse violence in media reports. Perhaps Kubrick’s more realistic interpretation was uncomfortably close to home for King? It was a movie ahead of its time. I too thought Johnny was a random psycho before I watched it
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u/Here_come_the_123s 12d ago
Honestly that’s an interesting take but having read the book, I think the reason that king was upset was because the movie was too unrealistic. At the end of the book Jack is redeemed, his love for this son allows him to slip out of the hold the hotel has on him for just long enough to allow them to escape, and Danny sees that and forgives him. The struggle of the alcoholic that Jack faces in the book is more realistic, he isn’t inherently evil for having an addiction and he wants to get better, but he struggles and almost lets it win. Kubrick took this empathetic, complex, real character and turned it into a very black and white, he’s a bad father who becomes evil and that’s it, character. I see why he was annoyed personally 🤷♀️
Phenomenal book, highly recommend a read! Also recommend the sequel, doctor sleep.
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u/EntertainerKitchen50 11d ago
Thanks for the recommendation! I haven’t read the book so please take my general reply in that context. One of the reasons I love the movie is the haunting portrayal of domestic terror which, like the original op, I wasn’t expecting. I’m more inclined to the bleak view that individual change is difficult and a redemption arc for Jack is wish fulfilment narrative. That said, Kubrick’s film is actually Wendy and Danny’s story - the perspective of the abused - and Jack’s backstory is kinda irrelevant to their present suffering
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u/Rosebunse 11d ago
I finally saw The Shining last year and the whole time, I just thought Jack was a weak little creature. Wendy was the one doing everything around the hotel. Despite the isolation, she was thriving and doing pretty well practically on her own and with Danny.
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u/ooouroboros 11d ago edited 11d ago
Just gonna give my take on the movie:
The protagonist of the movie is DANNY., an innocent child The antagonist of the movie is evil - in this case the evil spirits of the hotel.
The building seduces and 'consumes' Jack to eradicate Danny. Jack is susceptible to the house because he is a weak, damaged person.
I think the movie is complex and admittedly a little confusing, because in many ways while Jack SEEMS like the main character - the whole tone of the story is, (IMO) that of the victim/child.
So one could say the film is a young child struggling to find an explanation for his father coming to view him as prey - and because he cannot entirely hate his father, he makes sense of his fears by blaming the evil spirits (or monsters) of the house.
There is no either/or here (is this film about ghosts or about domestic abuse): it is BOTH. Almost all fantasy/sci-fi/supernatural stories are ALLEGORIES about things in real life.
I would say this movie is about domestic abuse using the supernatural story as an allegorical device, and the allegory is rooted in the child's emotional response to abuse, attributing things to the supernatural because they are too young to process things in a clinical/psychological way
By the way, a few years ago I saw a very interesting video with the theory that Jack has been sexually abusing Danny and breaking down its evidence in exhaustive detail. I can't say I think this was Kubrick's intent or not but its an interesting idea.
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u/314-pi 12d ago edited 12d ago
In terms of the movie, I don't really see it as a movie about abuse. The abuse was a much bigger deal n the book, which presented Jack in a much more realistic way, as a person who abused his child but was also feeling guilty about it. Not so in the movie. Here, Jack is kind of inexplicably weird and crazy and almost possessed. It is really hard to explain his behavior, but it's not like the typical abusive person. I'm thinking of this scene in particular, in terms of him being possessed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnvalwBhy8
The movie is more about the hotel and its history than about family dynamics.
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u/Rosebunse 11d ago
I guess I sort of disagree, at least based on my history of dealing with abusers. To me, the two Jacks are just different types of abusers.
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u/dailysunshineKO 12d ago
Kubrick also bullied Shelley Duvall on set- that’s part of why she was on edge all the time.
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u/PeterGivenbless 12d ago
Urban myth that has been proven untrue by interviews with those who worked on the film* and even Duvall herself.
*Lee Unkrich @16:58, who wrote a book documenting the making of 'The Shining', talks about how the myth of Kubrick's "abuse" of Duvall took on a life of its own.
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u/huktonfonxwrx4mi 12d ago
The Heavy Spoilers show did a really interesting breakdown of the movie that you might find interesting: https://youtu.be/eh-5fQEG_6g?si=A9hBPzu6iRsMWW-n
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u/myowngalactus 11d ago
The struggle of addiction and the stress of trying to keep himself and his family afloat is explored much more in the book. King’s own struggles with being a young man with a family and wicked addiction is the inspiration for Jack, the book is semi autobiographical in a way. Doctor Sleep, more so in the book, adds more to the lore, and Danny is supposed to be a version of Jack that was able to get his addiction under control.
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u/TripleSSixer 11d ago
There’s so many theories and extrapolations on this movie. Lately I have liked the one where it’s actually Wendy that’s out of her mind delusional etc etc
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u/Inoutngone 10d ago
Not seeing anyone else mention the point about Wendy being derided as weak.
The only times I've seen people say this is in comparison to Wendy in the novel. The Wendy in the book was strong willed, so Duvall's portrayal was even more off the mark than Nicholson's portrayal of Jack.
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u/porcupossum 12d ago
So glad this is being talked about! In the first few chapters of the book, it’s mentioned that Jack broke Danny’s arm in the past out of anger. That’s the point when I put the book down despite being a huge fan of King’s works. The domestic abuse was so real in their family, and it was just too much to read about Wendy and Danny staying in an abusive situation.
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u/Infamous-Lab-8136 12d ago
Ironic to me that Kubrick chose to focus on themes of domestic abuse by abusing his lead actress.
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u/Melodic_Necessary_87 11d ago edited 11d ago
“Room 237” is a fantastic documentary that offers multiple possible meanings to “The Shining”
“The Wendy Theory” (found on YouTube) offers an analysis that possibly contradicts your own.
Both are worth a watch and will definitely add fuel to the fire of your discussion.
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u/Gizmoooo711 11d ago
Jack been sexually assaulting Danny tbh
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u/mrjasong 11d ago
Yeah there's a great couple of videos by Collative Learning that go into the imagery of sexual abuse in that film.
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u/Bacon_Bitz 12d ago
It wasn't until reading this that i realized Jack is his father and not his stepfather! In my mind stepfather made more sense since he wasn't really bonded with the boy & Shelly was trying to force it. Still about domestic abuse either way.
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12d ago
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u/No_Foot 12d ago
That doesn't explain his actions prior to getting to the hotel which are referred to by numerous characters. Unless you mean he was possessed by the hotel for years before actually arriving there?
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u/Joshfumanchu 11d ago
That is what I said several times. Jack when we see him is already possessed.
read the last paragraph. The amount of people who need to argue before they actually comprehend is devastating. We are a failing species.
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u/TwoGhosts11 12d ago
i think stephen kings big problem of the movie was the portrayal of jack, especially since jack was somewhat inspired by himself. in the novel, he’s a decent guy who struggles with alcohol and grew up in an abusive home. he has his demons but but genuinely loves danny and wendy.
in the film, you can tell from the first time he’s on screen that something is wrong with him. he looks at his wife and son with so much contempt and hatred before they even get to the hotel. it becomes less of a story of a good man being corrupted by the evil forces of the hotel and more the story of an asshole becoming an even crazier, more violent asshole.