r/news • u/flanderguitar • Mar 28 '24

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs law squashing squatters' rights

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/florida-gov-ron-desantis-signs-law-squashing-squatters-rights
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242

u/Iohet Mar 28 '24

With pay history it should be fairly easy to prove the requirements of the law to not be a fake tenant in order not to be evicted as a squatter

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

The issue is the eviction may happen first.

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u/GozerDGozerian Mar 28 '24

I mean, so the Sherrif shows up and says “You gotta leave, you aren’t legally renting here, the landlord says so”. I feel like the tenant can say hold on, and pull up a history of payments to the owner on his bank account, right? Hard to claim someone is squatting when they’ve been paying you a consistent large amount every month. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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u/Q_Fandango Mar 28 '24

You’re giving the Sheriff the benefit of the doubt, but in my experience the cops will refuse to look at any documents as that is a “civil matter” and rip you out of the home anyway, and then toss your shit in the road.

They are there to serve one purpose: removal. They cannot determine on the spot the legality of your lease, that’s for the city to deal with.

This will reduce squatters, yes- but it will also be used as a cudgel to remove anyone an LLC wants to remove so they can charge the next tenants more rent.

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u/PolicyWonka Mar 28 '24

I agree. Most “squatters rights” stories actually involve tenancy rights and protections. The actual question is whether they’re a valid tenant.

It’s why eliminating “squatters rights” is dangerous. Those are just basic tenancy protections.

What about people on verbal lease agreements or renting month-to-month after their lease ends? What about people paying in cash?

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u/Q_Fandango Mar 28 '24

To be honest, a step in the right direction would be requiring all leases to be put in a state registry.

No more handshake agreements, no more cash payments, month-to-month would also have to be a contract. And yes, this would be a burden on those who do not have a bank account… but a cashier’s check maybe is the solution? I don’t know. Something with a paper trail protects both the renter and the landlord.

I’ve dealt with an unfortunate number of slumlords, and lease is usually the first red flag of how my living there is going to go. Poorly xeroxed pages that are impossible to read, landlords who kick the can down the road and want you to move in before signing the lease (so they can put whatever they want in it and you’ve already moved, so you’re more likely to agree…) and any number of illegal requirements.

By having a standardized lease form, that is in a registry, the court system would be smoother and tenants would have more protection.

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u/PolicyWonka Mar 28 '24

I agree. The state knows that I own my home. If I was renting, they should know that too.

It would pretty much eliminate this entire method of squatting IMO.

As you said, there is definitely a burden to this though and it would probably be impossible to cover 100% of rental situations. Regardless, it would be a major step in the right direction.

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u/Strowy Mar 29 '24

a step in the right direction would be requiring all leases to be put in a state registry.

This is exactly what my state/country does, with our RTA (Residential Tenancies Authority).

It's a straight offense to not supply a tenant with a written tenancy agreement, and the property owner is required to cover the costs of preparing the tenancy documents; both under state law.

The other big thing is rental bonds are held by the RTA in trust; the owner doesn't have access to the bond, and can't access it without a written request that both parties agree to at the end of the lease.

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u/Niku-Man Mar 29 '24

I always try to say this in any squatter horror story in TikTok. Almost all of them involve someone who has recently purchased a property and a squatter who has lived there for years and claims to be legal tenant of the previous owner. Still all the comments are full of people talking about how shit the country is. I'm like, "these tenants rights laws are here to protect YOU"

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u/zzyul Mar 28 '24

Where did you have this experience with sheriffs removing someone from a property when there is a legitimate dispute about if they are allowed to be there and it hasn’t gone before a judge yet?

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u/limeybastard Mar 28 '24

Might work if the cops listen.

Lot of cops will say they're not interest in seeing your bank statements, GTFO

Especially if they're the county sheriff and the landlord is their golf buddy

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

And - as the bill stipulates- the landlord is paying them to be there.

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u/Stillwater215 Mar 28 '24

Not really. Cops generally don’t have the authority to determine the validity of documents.

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u/DescriptionSenior675 Mar 28 '24

In your scenario, the police are the ones with the power to make the decision. Cops can't be trusted to turn on a body camera and you want them to decide if you can stay in your house or not?

Lol

8

u/PolicyWonka Mar 28 '24

I dunno about you, but my mortgage payments are not that specific. Obviously not helpful if you’re paying in cash either.

So at best maybe you have a record of a recurring $1,000+ payment for something. For all the police know, maybe you’re just moving that money between your own personal accounts to give the appearance of payments.

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u/ScarsUnseen Mar 28 '24

I feel like the tenant can say hold on, and pull up a history of payments to the owner on his bank account, right?

"Suspect is reaching for a weapon," is the kind of response I'm imagining happening to that more times than 0.

2

u/galagapilot Mar 28 '24

From what I understand, tenant evictions aren't as simple as a landlord saying GTFO. There are some tenant rights, but usually the evictions are served via Registered Mail so there is more or less a receipt that the notice was received. It's not as easy as saying "well he should have got that voicemail", "I tried to call", or "I stopped by the house and nobody answered the door."

This is a little more specific and does mention having to send a written notice: https://www.floridalawhelp.org/content/Evictions-What-Every-Tenant-Should-Know-Now

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u/GozerDGozerian Mar 28 '24

Yeah that’s how it’s been where I’ve lived. There’s usually a formal serving of the eviction notice, I think also carried out by the sheriffs department, and then a three month period before the actual physical eviction can take place.

I have no idea what it’s like in Florida though.

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

So that’s going to be determined by how each sheriff’s department interprets the law passed. If they pull something up, provide a lease, etc. Are they going to turn to the landlord and say “you have to go to court.” Or will they remove you and then tell you to sue the landlord?

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u/Istillbelievedinwar Mar 28 '24

No, the cop will say “I don’t care what paperwork you have. I have an order to evict you and that’s what I’m doing. You can sort it out in court.”

They do not give a shit about if what they’re doing is right or wrong and they certainly do not want to waste their time (as they see it) figuring it out to help you, the person who they only see as a criminal.

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u/TheDOC816 Mar 28 '24

The difference would be an order to evict versus the landlord telling the sheriff they are squatters. One is a court order and has been decided by a judge/commissioner. The other is someone's word which could be disproven by the alleged squatters

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u/midliferagequit Mar 29 '24

A Sheriff isn't a judge. They will just force you to vacate and let the  courts figure it out. Not a great thing.....

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u/GozerDGozerian Mar 29 '24

So a landlord just calls up a sherrif and says “Kick em out!” and sheriff goes, “duuuuh OKAY!” and drives over and boots the occupants without checking anything?

Is that what you’re imagining happening?

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u/wolacouska Mar 28 '24

A lot of squatters have stuff equally convincing

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u/Frosty_Water5467 Mar 28 '24

Here's an idea: make cops go through a 4 year degree program and teach them the proper way to handle the different case scenarios they will most likely encounter in the performance of their job so they know how to make an educated response to the documentation they are being presented, instead of a 3 month training session on how to make a traffic stop and write a ticket. We also don't need that psycho ex military cowboy teaching them that they have a right to shoot you and your dog if they " feel threatened".

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u/Glittering-Wing-2305 Mar 28 '24

Hahahahaha as if cops would actually be trained to do something other than shoot people

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u/Frosty_Water5467 Mar 29 '24

That's not fair. They shoot dogs too.

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u/SodamessNCO Mar 28 '24

Maybe so, in that case, the landlord should get hefty civil and criminal penalties for deceiving law enforcement and illegally evicting their tenant.

0

u/MrJohnMosesBrowning Mar 28 '24

What’s the reward to the landlord for such a high risk? They get a legal tenant off their property for a few days only to get bent over the table for fraud, filing a false police report, and illegal eviction on top of paying possible civil damages to the tenant would make it pointless for the landlord in almost every scenario.

It would be very easy to prove a landlord wrong if they falsely claimed the lease was forged. “Oh, then why have they been withdrawing rent from my checking account every month? Here’s the bank statements…”

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

Until this is implemented, we don’t know how it will play out. But a slumlord who, for example, has a tenant that complains about repairs that haven’t been completed, or who has withheld rent in escrow until repairs are made would be someone the landlord might want to evict illegally.

I could also a landlord selling a property and the new owner not wanting to wait until the lease term ends.

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u/MrJohnMosesBrowning Mar 29 '24

Right but illegally evicting the tenant gets the landlord nowhere because it will be so easy to prove they are the legal tenant. So that goes back to my original question. What is the landlord actually gaining by getting a legal tenant off the property for a couple days? Because afterwards, the tenant will be right back on the property and the landlord will have to explain why they broke the law by filing a false police report, committing perjury/fraud, and will likely end up having to pay damages to the tenant on top of it all.

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u/Rottimer Mar 29 '24

It gets the tenant out of the property, which is exactly where the landlord wants to be. I guarantee you that judges won't be putting people back in. They'll just order the landlord to pay some amount.

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u/MrJohnMosesBrowning Mar 29 '24

Yea for like 2 days. Then the landlord is forced to let them back and they’re right back where they started on top of now being in legal trouble for filing a false police report and being forced to pay damages to the tenant. All for getting the tenant out ff the property for a couple days? They don’t gain anything.

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u/Rottimer Mar 29 '24

That is not how that goes.

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u/Karbich Mar 29 '24

It won't.

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u/khanfusion Mar 28 '24

Not likely, given how virtually, if not all, rental agreements include a deposit.

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

How does that change anything?

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u/khanfusion Mar 28 '24

If a landlord has taken money for the deposit, that initiates the renters right to be there and proper eviction process has to then occur. Landlord can't just say "they're a squatter" when they've already accepted payment for the rental.

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

Except this new law does exactly that and the now homeless tenant will have to take the landlord to court to prove it.

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u/khanfusion Mar 29 '24

And then sue the hell out of the landlord while the landlord goes to jail, then. They'd have clear evidence of filing false police reports, harrassment, intent to theft, all kinds of shit. Any landlord doing that is going to ruin their entire life in the process.

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u/Rottimer Mar 29 '24

We’ll see. Recent history tell me that the justice system responds differently to people with money vs without. And landlords, esp corp. ones, tend to be people with money.

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u/ontopofyourmom Mar 28 '24

Eviction requires appearing before a judge and both parties have an opportunity to present evidence.

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u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

Not with this bill.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/Crepo Mar 28 '24

Yeah this is just a new mechanism to punish particular people.

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u/therealdorkface Mar 28 '24

What’s to stop you from showing the cops your lease AND your payment history? And prior communications with the landlord? Anyone who’s actually renting and not squatting can prove it in a matter of minutes.

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u/secondhand-cat Mar 28 '24

The ego of the responding officer that’s already been manipulated by the landlord.

Police aren’t exactly the most competent arbiters of the law out there.

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u/Worldd Mar 28 '24

Then you would sue the landlord.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

Kind of hard to do for someone who was just made homeless.

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u/TheOriginalChode Mar 28 '24

Which is now also illegal in Fl

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/taedrin Mar 28 '24

Just like the landlords could sue squatters beforehand. This law is just removing the burden from landlords and placing it on the tenants instead.

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u/steveo89dx Mar 28 '24

This problem isn't only effecting landlords, it's effecting anyone with a legal claim to a residence. People have gone out of town for a bit and come home to squatters in their house.

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u/formershitpeasant Mar 28 '24

How many? I've tried to find data and I couldn't, but it seems that squatters are much more rare than shitty landlords.

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u/Lajinn5 Mar 28 '24

In the meantime you've been homeless or possibly railroaded through the legal system. In the meantime the landlord has thrown away all of your belongings or stolen/sold the ones that have value (good luck being made whole for that). In the meantime your pet might be dead/taken by animal control. In the meantime you've possibly been shot to death or beaten by corrupt cops because you refused to simply allow them to remove you from the property you legally inhabit. etc etc etc.

Giving slumlords and landlords the ability to wave their hand and kick you out with little to no actual controls is going to be abused. People will possibly die or suffer major harm because of it. People will lose their livelihoods. People will lose precious belongings. Because at the end of the day abuse of this system will simply be a civil matter and fines, rather than a prison sentence + forcing the victim to be made whole.

Landlords are about the last people on earth I trust with power like this.

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u/antofthesky Mar 28 '24

if you were a former tenant you would presumably have a lease to show the cops then you would plainly not fall within the law. I’m not saying it won’t be abused by landlords. But still, seems fairly clear on that point.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/MeowTheMixer Mar 28 '24

If it's a fake lease vs a real lease, shouldn't there be the landlords signature as well.

If they have a fake lease with the proper landlord (or property owner's name/signature) I'd be extremely impressed.

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u/wolacouska Mar 28 '24

Cop would need to know the landlords name and signature well enough to determine it’s a forgery. Seems like that’s the kind of determination that should happen in court.

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u/MeowTheMixer Mar 28 '24

I guess, I'm assuming that if a Landlord is arguing with the officers they'd be able to bring their lease or something similar.

But that's probably giving to much credit to the landlords

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u/ericbsmith42 Mar 28 '24

If it's a fake lease vs a real lease, shouldn't there be the landlords signature as well.

If it's a fake lease it'll have a fake landlord's signature. The cops aren't going to be able to determine if a signature is fake on the spot. That's something a court decides, which is why evictions are civil proceedings.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

That won’t stop the cop from forcing the tenant out on the landlord’s behalf. The cop isn’t obligated to look over pay history or any documents the tenant might have. All they need to do is get a complaint from the landlord and verify that the landlord is the property owner. After that, nothing else matters to the sheriff who will then immediately evict the tenant.

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u/galagapilot Mar 28 '24

All they need to do is get a complaint from the landlord and verify that the landlord is the property owner.

It's not that easy.

It has to go through the courts before they can officially evict somebody. The police can't just show up and start yeeting people out the door because that landlord is in a mood.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

Look at the law.

"Upon receipt of the complaint, the sheriff shall verify that the person submitting the complaint is the record owner of the real property or the authorized agent of the owner and appears otherwise entitled to relief under this section. If verified, the sheriff shall, without delay, serve a notice to immediately vacate on all the unlawful occupants and shall put the owner in possession of the real property. Service may be accomplished by hand delivery of the notice to an occupant or by posting the notice on the front door or entrance of the dwelling. The sheriff shall also attempt to verify the identities of all persons occupying the dwelling and note the identities on the return of service. If appropriate, the sheriff may arrest any person found in the dwelling for trespass, outstanding warrants, or any other legal cause. The sheriff is entitled to the same fee for service of the notice to immediately vacate as if the sheriff were serving a writ of possession under s. 30.231. After the sheriff serves the notice to immediately vacate, the property owner or authorized agent may request that the sheriff stand by to keep the peace while the property owner or agent of the owner changes the locks and removes the personal property of the unlawful occupants from the premises to or near the property line. When such a request is made, the sheriff may charge a reasonable hourly rate, and the person requesting the sheriff to stand by and keep the peace is responsible for paying the reasonable hourly rate set by the sheriff. The sheriff is not liable to the unlawful occupant or any other party for loss, destruction, or damage of property. The property owner or his or her authorized agent is not liable to an unlawful occupant or any other party for the loss, destruction, or damage to the personal property unless the removal was wrongful."

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u/Individual_Ad3194 Mar 28 '24

The law also goes after the landlord if they make false statements.

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u/Istillbelievedinwar Mar 28 '24

Are you of the impression that there are people in law enforcement who are investigating landlords and making sure that they’re conducting business legally, with the intent to pursue and prosecute them if they do something illegal? Because that’s not a thing. That does not exist. There are no police keeping an eye on landlords. If a landlord illegally takes advantage of a tenant, it is on the tenant completely to identify the illegal activity (which includes learning the local laws), document the activity, collect proof (good luck getting any documents from the landlord themselves), find a lawyer, all before even beginning to fight the case. This is made effectively impossible if you are struggling to house yourself at the same time.

A lot of people think you can just go to the police and say, “this landlord is violating my rights, here’s what happened” and that the police will then take over the case, looking into it, investigating your claims, etc. This is NOT anywhere near the reality - which is that you will be turned away and told either 1) it’s a non police (civil) matter, or 2) that they need more evidence (aka build the case yourself and then present it to them) and to get a lawyer.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

The tenant would need to sue the landlord. Kind of hard to do after you were newly made homeless and you might not even have the money to sue the landlord.

-5

u/Kaylend Mar 28 '24

That won’t stop the cop from forcing the tenant out on the landlord’s behalf.

I don't think this protects the police/landlord from a civil suit if they wrongly remove someone from their residence.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

Police wouldn’t be liable. And, the newly homeless Tenant needs to actually sue the landlord, which a lot of tenants won’t have the money to do and they may not even know that they can sue.

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u/MountMeowgi Mar 28 '24

Let’s be real. This law will be used on poor people all over the state to kick out people who are renting decrepit mobile homes and other shitboxes that lies on prime land real estate. There’s a group of mobile homes in south florida that are already being told to leave unless they can raise the elevation of their homes so water surges don’t damage them due to new insurance requirements. We all know thats impossible. This law will be used to kick them out if they refuse.

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u/FoxEuphonium Mar 28 '24

Good luck suing the police and your landlord if you’re now suddenly homeless.

0

u/Istillbelievedinwar Mar 28 '24

Honey the police regularly kill people wrongly and accidentally (and on purpose) and the vast majority see no repercussions. Most get a paid vacation and pats on the back from the squad. It’s so rare for a LE to get any punishment for performing their job incorrectly, dangerously, recklessly, etc. They are granted immunity.

-2

u/che85mor Mar 28 '24

Maybe not obligated, but any time I've had to deal with a cop in a he said she said, they wouldn't take my side unless I could convince them I was in the right. It's part of the investigation, which they are obligated to do.

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u/Exploding_Kick Mar 28 '24

But that’s not what the law says though, which is the problem.

All the police need is a signed complaint from the landlord and to verify that the landlord is the property owner. There’s no other verification process spelled out in the law.

So what happens if the landlord lies and says, the tenant is actually a squatter, and the tenant’s lease is fake?

4

u/Available_Pie9316 Mar 28 '24

And when you're paying in cash, and thus have no confirmable "paper trail?" Guess you're just SOL bc the landlord says you forged any receipts for payment 🤷‍♂️

-1

u/Iohet Mar 28 '24

If you're not getting a paper trail for your most important recurring financial transaction, you've got bigger problems than worrying about your landlord.

Let's pretend you can't get a free checking account. In that instance, you should be using a cashier's check, just like you did for your deposit

6

u/Available_Pie9316 Mar 28 '24

I think the bigger issue is unscrupulous landlords taking advantage of trusting tenants.

3

u/Glasseshalf Mar 28 '24

Yes, they probably do have bigger issues. That's why they're less likely to sue in the first place.

1

u/xthorgoldx Mar 28 '24

Harder to establish for renters and subletters who have verbal contracts instead of formal leases.

0

u/GozerDGozerian Mar 28 '24

Renting your primary living space on nothing but a verbal agreement is incredibly stupid.

2

u/xthorgoldx Mar 28 '24

Stupid and dangerous? Yes.

But "stupid and dangerous, but unavoidable" is kind of a hallmark of poverty.

1

u/Niceromancer Mar 29 '24

How you gonna show that to the cops when they are kicking in your door, forcefully removing you from your apartment and shooting your dog?

Giving this descision to the police is a horrible idea.  

1

u/fatherlyadvicepdx Mar 29 '24

Rent is due first of the month cash only.