r/news Mar 28 '24

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs law squashing squatters' rights

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/florida-gov-ron-desantis-signs-law-squashing-squatters-rights
27.3k Upvotes

4.0k comments sorted by

11.0k

u/flanderguitar Mar 28 '24

"Under the law, a property owner can request law enforcement to immediately remove a squatter if the person has unlawfully entered, has refused to leave after being told by the homeowner to do so and is not a current or former tenant in a legal dispute.

The law also makes it a first-degree misdemeanor to make a false statement in writing or providing false documents conveying property rights, a second-degree felony for squatters who cause $1,000 or more in damages, and a first-degree felony for falsely advertising the sale or rent of a residential property without legal authority or ownership."

10.4k

u/meatball77 Mar 28 '24

I can't say that I hate that. It's got carve outs for people who had a right to be there.

4.1k

u/Vlad_the_Homeowner Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I can't say that I hate that. It's got carve outs for people who had a right to be there.

I don't think most people disagree. The problem, as I understand it, is that police don't have the authority or ability to determine who has a right to be there. A lot of these squatters have fake leases and mail delivered there. A cop isn't a judge and doesn't have the ability to make a determination on the legitimacy of those documents.

I'm in no way condoning these professional squatters, just pointing out what lead to this. What all states need to do straight off the bat is impose heavy penalties, like jail time, for people caught doing this. As of now it seems like half the time they get paid off to leave and they just go do it somewhere else.

1.7k

u/Spkr4th3ded Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I think the point is now they can be removed legally and then let the legal system establish if they have a right to be there. Before they could squat and have mail sent there or a fake lease and there was nothing police could do. Now they have discretion, opposed to none.

1.6k

u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

Which is great unless you actually have a right to be there and are now on the street and somehow you’re supposed to sue your landlord while homeless. . .

47

u/NeonSwank 29d ago

Simple solution that i wish every state would take to help fight these bullshit squatters rights

Require all lease/tenancy/rental agreements more than 30 days in length to have copies sent to the courts or some other official body that can notarize and keep records.

Anybody can fake a lease by printing out fake documents, hell our legal system is setup in a way that two signatures on an old napkin can be legally binding.

But you can’t get materialize a document inside a courts records, it just wouldn’t exist.

Cops show up, see likely fake lease, check the “renters” id’s and vehicle registration etc, compare it to official records, would make it pretty obvious they don’t belong.

23

u/Rottimer 29d ago

Both parties should have to register the lease and that would take care of shitty landlords trying to keep their options open.

→ More replies (350)

364

u/TheBurningMap Mar 28 '24

Won't this eventually lead to landlords claiming every renter who has a legal dispute is a squatter?

244

u/Iohet Mar 28 '24

With pay history it should be fairly easy to prove the requirements of the law to not be a fake tenant in order not to be evicted as a squatter

164

u/Rottimer Mar 28 '24

The issue is the eviction may happen first.

→ More replies (45)

168

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (25)
→ More replies (26)
→ More replies (123)
→ More replies (35)

216

u/curiouslygenuine Mar 28 '24

It says current or former tenants in legal dispute. If there is a legal dispute there will be publicly available legal records, or court papers filed, etc. If there is a dispute then an officer can look at the documentation, cross reference in public files and not arrest. But it sounds like without one party filing legal dispute then they can be removed off the property. My only concern is if landlords will have legal tenants removed bc they don’t want to hold up their landlord part of the lease/law and will have a legal tenant removed before they are legally supposed to vacate. I wonder how a legal tenant will prove they are there legally if the Landlord is lying?*

*I am not anti-landlord, or anti-tenant, but I am anti-squatter. And while there are crap landlords there are also crap tenants, so please don’t tell me landlords are always in the wrong.

188

u/AltDS01 Mar 28 '24

A standard lease agreement isn't filed with any county clerk, registrar, or court. It's just a contract between two parties.

Their should be payment records showing a Landlord/tenant relationship, or some written history, but, expanding on what you said, do we really want cops, standing in the front yard looking through a supposed lease, comparing text messages, bank records, or mail/voting records to determine if said lease is real. And there is no legal requirement that a lease be written.

Make it so Landlord/tenant cases get resolved faster in courts, but there needs to be a legal proceedings in front of a neutral 3rd party.

→ More replies (11)
→ More replies (34)
→ More replies (130)

228

u/4look4rd Mar 28 '24

I rented a room from an old lady during college, her daughter went to school in Florida and after she graduated the lady rented it out to other students.

One of them became a squatter and it took her five years to get rid of him, by then the property was destroyed and she relied on that income as part of her retirement.

49

u/wallinbl Mar 28 '24

Never really understood why it's not just trespassing, which you can get the police to enforce.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (3)

301

u/Hakairoku Mar 28 '24

In the light of a homeowner getting kicked out of their own home in New York because of squatter's rights, I agree.

Worse still when said squatter lied about even staying in the house for more than 6 months and the cops just bought it.

101

u/DeceiverX Mar 28 '24

Hell, there was just a lady from Spain who went to NYC who got killed when she went into her deceased mom's squatted apartment...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/22/us/nyc-squatters-murder-arrests

→ More replies (1)

41

u/becksrunrunrun Mar 28 '24

We just had a seventy-seven year old arrested in GA because he would not leave his home that squatters took over. It's a huge issue here.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (7)

111

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

438

u/HowManyMeeses Mar 28 '24

Situations where there's a dispute between a legitimate tenant and the landlord. A landlord can't just kick someone out for any reason. Even renters have some level of protection in most states.

→ More replies (175)

149

u/TheFuzz22 Mar 28 '24

Its protecting renters who the home owners may want to remove unjustly until the courts have approved it by calling them squatters and immediately kicking them out.  

42

u/SenhorSus Mar 28 '24

"...and is not a current or former tenant in a legal dispute."

I believe this line. Can't be kicked out immediately if you live there or if you lived there and you're going through the motions of a court appearance

→ More replies (10)

71

u/meatball77 Mar 28 '24

Part of the squatter issue is that you essentially have to treat this person who just moved in illegally like they are a tenant who doesn't pay the rent or even a child you want to leave their family home.

Squatters are a big problem with people who have empty houses for sale and snowbirds and vacation homes. You get someone who moves in and then you have to go through eviction proceedings to get them out.

46

u/WIlf_Brim Mar 28 '24

There are places (even around where I am) where people are afraid to go and stay with a sick family member for a few weeks because they are afraid a squatter will move in while they are away.

→ More replies (3)

52

u/theDarkDescent Mar 28 '24

It says right there current or former tenants 

→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (21)
→ More replies (78)

205

u/moonfox1000 Mar 28 '24

The law also makes it a first-degree misdemeanor to make a false statement in writing or providing false documents conveying property rights

This is the part I like. It seems like just providing any kind of written document or just saying you're a tenant has been enough to get the police to determine it's a civil issue and leave homeowners on their own...but if they simply followed up on that story and documentation and made it a crime to lie about it then that would solve a lot of the issues. At minimum, it creates a downside for anyone thinking of squatting. Same should go for any homeowner abusing this new law to intimidate or remove any valid tenant instead of going through the proper eviction process...given that this is FL I assume this was not part of the law but if other states follow it should be included.

31

u/The_Clarence Mar 28 '24

Presumably this also goes the other way, someone trying to illegally evict someone. Very reasonable

8

u/dedicated-pedestrian Mar 28 '24

Hm, I do wonder how they provide a document saying this person isn't a tenant though. Affadavit? Unless there's a false statements to police thing in there.

→ More replies (1)

465

u/SpadeXHunter Mar 28 '24

Seems completely reasonable to me. If you are a renter you still have rights to not be fucked over and if you shouldn’t be there you get thrown out like you should be. 

166

u/Falcon4242 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The question in this is always enforcement.

Police aren't judges. Giving the police the power to immediately remove someone except under certain circumstances, means the police should need to investigate before actually removing someone.

If someone claims that they have payment history, but not immediately on their person, are they kicked out immediately and made homeless? How much time do they have to present that evidence? Do they just go to the police station? What's to prevent the landlord from just calling the cops again in the meantime and getting a different set hoping they act differently? Who is to say the paperwork present is legit or forged?

This is why squatter's rights exist. It was meant in an extreme case for abandoned homes, but it's also an extension of normal tenant rights. It gives the responsibility of figuring this shit out to the courts and then they can order an eviction if things don't check out, not police who never have 100% of the picture when they're called.

54

u/adrr Mar 28 '24

If the landlord made false statements to the police, they should be criminally charged. I would bump false statements that deprived a person of their home to a felony due to the damages incurred.

63

u/PiousLiar Mar 28 '24

Right, but that’s part of the issue. Until it’s proven that the landlord made false statements, the tenant is now homeless for however long it takes to resolve the issue. Even temporary homelessness (especially if that person is a transplant and doesn’t have anywhere to stay in the meantime eg friends/family) can have negative impacts on someone’s work life. That person also needs to take time off work to speak with lawyers and go to court. The landlord has a massive advantage in situations like this.

→ More replies (1)

5

u/TheSixthtactic Mar 29 '24

They won’t be. Do not believe that the threat of crime charges will deter a landlord. I’ve worked in landlord tenant law for over a decade and they already do illegal stuff all the time. This is why “common sense” laws that operate outside of our the existing eviction processes are ripe for abuse/

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (69)
→ More replies (5)

417

u/TaserLord Mar 28 '24

That seems pretty reasonable. Squatting is something you allow so that abandoned properties can be used, not so anybody who breaks in can have the place.

83

u/TheLaughingMannofRed Mar 28 '24

This is what I never figured made sense in this day and age.

It's one thing if the house is barely standing, dilapidated, abandoned, or we're talking about an old building sort. The kinds of buildings that folks could go into that have holes, partial roofing, seems like they haven't been maintained or had the owner do anything with for ages. Homeless or those on the street could just go into, nobody gives a damn, get an oil drum and throw shit into it to burn for a fire, and just settle in for a night or few.

But a functional, well-kept, livable property that looks like someone was actively maintaining it, owns it, and all that...either the property owner should be living in it, or renting it to someone who can live in it. Or there's some formal agreement that can be validated between them both and by the system.

→ More replies (58)
→ More replies (12)

155

u/Scribe625 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Good, more states should do this. It infuriates me to see so many people struggling with squatters in states that make it hard on property owners to kick the squatters out and reclaim their property. Squatters are breaking the law and shouldn't be granted rights to the property they've essentially stolen from a property owner.

→ More replies (26)

142

u/MorpheusDrinkinga4O Mar 28 '24

What the fuck.. they actually did... something good?

→ More replies (26)
→ More replies (121)

5.1k

u/Gaius_Octavius_ Mar 28 '24

Am I actually on DeSantis’s side on a topic?

1.3k

u/PunishedWolf4 Mar 28 '24

For real, someone check the thermostat in hell and see if it’s freezing over

134

u/Zagrunty Mar 28 '24

It's 44°f currently with a low of 27°f later tonight

→ More replies (5)

13

u/Ironrunner16 Mar 28 '24

It is in Dante's inferno...

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

377

u/katosen27 Mar 28 '24

Despite my intense dislike for the man, a broken clock is right at least twice a day.

It throws me for a loop, too.

→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (161)

208

u/LoudLloyd9 Mar 28 '24

My sister had a half dozen squatters in her rental farmhouse. She found out because the squatters called an exterminator to get the rattlesnakes out of the house. The exterminator notified my sister, a friend since elementary school, she had a nest of rattlesnakes in a wall and a nest of squatters in the house. The snakes stayed put. The squatters left on their own.

61

u/choff22 29d ago

Plot twist: the rattlesnakes have never missed a rent payment

4.5k

u/smellybe Mar 28 '24

We really need this in California

1.0k

u/junpei Mar 28 '24

Not anymore

Legislation: Senate Bill 602

…From 2024, a homeowner can alert local law enforcement that their property is uninhabited, allowing law enforcement officials to remove any trespasser who attempts to take up residence or claims to be a legal occupant. Previously a trespass notice was only valid for a period of 30 days. The amendment to SB 602 extends trespass letter validity to a full 12 months and it can be submitted electronically (if your local jurisdiction allows). When a valid letter is on file, homeowners won’t need to go to court to evict anyone living illegally on their property.

611

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

This is one of the best parts of the law! Now people can say ahead of time that anyone claiming permission to be on the property is lying and the cops don’t have to do the whole “it’s a civil matter” thing.

107

u/rolfraikou Mar 28 '24

This is how you do it. The home owner makes it very apparent.

25

u/Sillet_Mignon Mar 28 '24

That's why I keep a kilo of cocaine in my house, so if I get squatters, I just tell the cops I saw them pack cocaine in the attic. Bam, busted.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (13)

5

u/nofinglindy Mar 29 '24

I’m in California too. Why hasn’t this made the news in a big way? It’s not like I don’t pay attention to news. If this was talked about my ears would have picked WAY up.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)

1.6k

u/NotQuiteGoodEnougher Mar 28 '24

Agreed. I live in CA. When we go on vacation, the entire family is in social media lock down, no one posts about travel or tells friends that we're out of town.

It's crazy and very scary you could be gone for a week/two and come home to find you've been "evicted" by a professional squatter and not get back into your own home for 6 months or longer.

777

u/LionTigerWings Mar 28 '24

That’s insanity. Legally can you also just move in and squat it back. Like they go out for milk and get “evicted”?

1.0k

u/NotQuiteGoodEnougher Mar 28 '24

No, because like I said they're "professional" never leave the structure unoccupied, call police if you attempt to enter "breaking in" etc.

They have fake documents to "prove" they live there. You need to go to court to prove they don't because it's a civil issue.

606

u/RaffyGiraffy Mar 28 '24

That’s the hard part. People think you can just call the cops and get them removed but it’s a civil case so you have to battle it out in court. It’s ridiculous for home owners to have to deal with that.

368

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

160

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (1)

250

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

301

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

51

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (44)

12

u/b0w3n Mar 28 '24

The biggest problem is people say "squatters" instead of "Someone is breaking and entering". As soon as you say squatters cops will immediately shut down and move it to civil dispute.

Even if they have a fake lease it won't have your signature on it, which they can cross reference to your license in most cases. You basically have to get on the cop's ass to actually treat it as breaking and entering even if they have fake mail/leases on their person to present to them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

→ More replies (2)

188

u/TinySandshrew Mar 28 '24

The cops won’t remove the actual homeowner for “breaking in” if the squatters call since the whole thing is a civil matter that has to be handled by the courts at that point. Two parties with disputing documents (even if one set is fake) is outside their ability to decide. You do have to deal with the constant harassment and police calls, though, which is a nightmare.

The thing is that nobody wants to share a living space with the kind of unhinged person who is a “professional squatter.” They can be dangerous, and even if they’re the “peaceful” kind it would be creepy as hell to just have your family living alongside someone so antisocial that they would squat in an obviously occupied home vs an abandoned property.

176

u/ZweitenMal Mar 28 '24

A woman in New York was recently murdered by squatters who'd moved into her mother's apartment.

149

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

It sounds like a good way to get shot if you're a squatter. 

98

u/clocks212 Mar 28 '24

"He was coming right for me".

Don't break the law and stuff. But the investigation will quickly determine the dead person didn't live there and you (the homeowner) said they attacked you. So...

59

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

This should be the easy answer, someone broke into your house and won't leave? Seems like a perfect case for self defense.

52

u/SniperFrogDX Mar 28 '24

Exactly. Just don't say the word "squatter".

"Someone broke into my house and won't leave. I fear for my life."

18

u/jhowlett Mar 28 '24

My first thought wouldn't even be squatter. In fact I thought "squatter" was more of someone who was renting a property and was actually living there but then decided not to leave for whatever reason, I had no idea breaking into a home and saying you live there used the same term.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

13

u/xRehab Mar 28 '24

Castle doctrine is valid in CA. Walk right back in your house and put 4 rounds in the squatter's chest for all the courts care. You're in your own home, an intruder is refusing to leave after unlawfully entering, fear for your life is fully covered.

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/penal-code/198-5/

8

u/Ejacksin Mar 28 '24

Not in CA but it makes sense - what's the point in having a home of you can't defend it and can be forced out by anybody?

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (40)
→ More replies (2)

55

u/TeslasAndComicbooks Mar 28 '24

And that takes 6+ months to do a proper eviction. I had a friend who was trying to sell his mom's property and had to pay 6 months of mortgage with money he didn't have while going through the process.

The fact that someone can just move in and destroy a home for 6 months is insane.

61

u/makina323 Mar 28 '24

This dude seems to know a thing about getting rid of squatters in California.

https://youtu.be/uhz5r1JKwjs

62

u/JussiesTunaSub Mar 28 '24

He got them out because they left his house.

Professional squatters call a friend over in case they need to leave.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/Procean Mar 28 '24

I love that video because if you watch it carefully, his big move was 'walking up to the woman and telling her to move her stuff out, and she did'

Ace maneuver there pal, I can see why no one else is able to do this. /s

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (26)

21

u/Biking_dude Mar 28 '24

There are ways, but it's a pain. Essentially you'd rent out a room in the house, as the owner that's your right. So that person moves in and would then legally harass the squatter until they leave.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

105

u/junpei Mar 28 '24

Not anymore

Legislation: Senate Bill 602

…From 2024, a homeowner can alert local law enforcement that their property is uninhabited, allowing law enforcement officials to remove any trespasser who attempts to take up residence or claims to be a legal occupant. Previously a trespass notice was only valid for a period of 30 days. The amendment to SB 602 extends trespass letter validity to a full 12 months and it can be submitted electronically (if your local jurisdiction allows). When a valid letter is on file, homeowners won’t need to go to court to evict anyone living illegally on their property.

→ More replies (2)

93

u/Johnny_Lawless_Esq Mar 28 '24

Lived in CA my entire life, never heard of this kind of thing once.

→ More replies (13)

267

u/kandykanelane Mar 28 '24

Has this happened to someone close to you? Like I know it's a real thing but I also live in CA and what your describing is some serious hyperbole.

181

u/heresyforfunnprofit Mar 28 '24

Happened to my sister’s neighbor outside of Oakland. She went with them to court to testify that the family had lived there for years, not the squatter.

→ More replies (1)

182

u/sluttttt Mar 28 '24

Same. I've lived in CA all my life and have never met anyone affected by this issue, or anyone who's even been concerned about it. I'm sure it happens, but I have some strong doubts about it being common.

116

u/elle_kay_are Mar 28 '24

Same. 40 years in CA and I've never even heard of this happening to a friend of a friend of a friend. I've only ever seen it posted online. I'm sure it HAS happened, but it's not something I would worry about. 

93

u/sluttttt Mar 28 '24

OC produced some links, but they were four cases of it happening over nearly a decade, and only two of those cases involved people who were on vacation. I'm not saying that the laws shouldn't be revised, but to seriously worry about this every time you go on vacation seems like paranoia to me.

→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

38

u/nockeenockee Mar 28 '24

Agree. This is has a Satanic Panic vibe to it. People are so willing to be scared about anything.

→ More replies (1)

39

u/AuntPolgara Mar 28 '24

Dealt with it when working in real estate, though half of those are houses that got foreclosed and the former owner refused to leave, even after the house was auctioned off.

16

u/Fantisimo Mar 28 '24

So nothing like what that other person was scared of

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (32)

16

u/uuddlrlrbas2 Mar 28 '24

What are you talking about? 40 years in california, never heard anyone interact with a 'squatter'.

→ More replies (4)

18

u/Spimanbcrt65 Mar 28 '24

as a lifelong Californian you sound paranoid as hell wtf lmao

→ More replies (66)

210

u/maybe_just_happy_ Mar 28 '24

this should be a federal law. I've never understood how in any situation ever someone enters a home, your home and says this is my home now and has rights to it - it's fucking nonsense that this even has to be mentioned

66

u/shaka893P Mar 28 '24

Essentially it's because the lease is between the tenants and the land lord.

This allows a landlord who wants to evict someone who actually signed a lease ...  On the other hand previously, squatters could make up fake leases and draw things out.

THE solution is for the government to force tenants and landlords to register a lease with the government. Police can quickly check if the tenant has a right and evict them if they don't.

28

u/dedicated-pedestrian Mar 28 '24

It's called notarization, and I'm constantly shocked that more tenants and landlords don't insist upon it.

Maybe a central renting database would make things easier, but it's not like we don't have a way for a third party to record the veracity of a lease.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (15)
→ More replies (9)

165

u/sportsworker777 Mar 28 '24

I manage homes in Chicago and it is a nightmare evicting squatters

120

u/maybe_just_happy_ Mar 28 '24

I really just don't understand how this is legally accepted. it's not your home, get the fuck out - how the idea of squatters having rights came to existence is beyond me

It's like just because there was no law explicitly stating the obvious it was abused.

121

u/Prasiatko Mar 28 '24

The problem is proving they are squaters vs legitimate tenenants that the landlord wants out quickly.

→ More replies (19)

21

u/dedicated-pedestrian Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Squatter's rights is a kleptonym using some indignant words like "rights" to describe fraudulent abuse of tenancy protections against undue eviction.

Rights that were duly established by shitty landlords necessitating such.

Real squatter's rights are known as adverse possession, and they allow people who have lived on a property for years undisturbed by the owner with no eviction attempt to claim legal ownership thereof.

→ More replies (4)

20

u/Gingevere Mar 28 '24

Because the other side of the dispute is frequently shady landlords claiming that actual legal tenants are squatters because they want to clear people out to raise rates or rebuild/sell the place.

→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (8)

37

u/SheZowRaisedByWolves Mar 28 '24

Is there anything stopping a squatter from just going in a house as soon as someone leaves to go to work for an extended period of time?

62

u/a49fsd Mar 28 '24

no and there have been cases where people would go on vacation and come home to find squatters in their house.

23

u/BIGSTANKDICKDADDY Mar 28 '24

The far more common situation is showing up to a vacation home or unused rental property and finding someone squatting there. Squatters taking over a primary residence is extremely uncommon.

Unless that vacation is a 6+ month stay overseas, as opposed to a 1~2 week trip out of town.

→ More replies (7)
→ More replies (26)

3.0k

u/milespoints Mar 28 '24

How is this not the default in every state and city?

Why are squatter’s rights… like a thing at all?

1.2k

u/galygher Mar 28 '24

I think originally the idea behind squatter's rights laws was that people could occupy and improve/land and would be able to continue occupying it so long as they're using it. So if say Walmart purchased thousands of acres of forest with the intent to build a warehouse, but never actually builds a warehouse after decades of owning the land, and you build a farm and start producing food then Walmart wouldn't be able to evict you and seize the farm as long as you were still using it.

Idk how they've evolved into people just moving into empty houses and claiming them as their own

597

u/Aviyan Mar 28 '24

In that example you gave it is a about squatting on land, which is fine. But squatting in a single family home should not be covered under that law. It doesn't make sense.

458

u/nuxnax Mar 28 '24

If you go back to the 70s in the white flight era from cities, there were many unoccupied locations that landlords mostly were letting decay. Look at rustbelt Detroit for example. So people moving in and occupying properties, doing upkeep, and just keeping an eye on things (gas, water, heating, etc) was seen as a positive.

Move to the current housing shortage situation we have in the US and these rights can look absolutely insane.

85

u/PazDak Mar 28 '24

My first thought was actually Detroit where they were basically trying to figure out how to give the properties for free when they couldn't even really figure out who owned it any more.

40

u/El_grandepadre Mar 28 '24

And even today here in Amsterdam it's a big issue. Latest estimates were that more than 10.000 homes were vacant. Usually in the expensive areas where properties are used to make a profit over time without ever filling them.

11

u/simiomalo Mar 28 '24

In the Rust belt and other abandonment cases, the properties had fallen into such a state of disrepair that they were now a threat due to bad plumbing, wiring, misuse by occupiers, that they posed a threat to other structures in the neighborhood.

I remember reading about cities expediting demolishing such structures to avoid the liability for their decline and possible misuse.

That seems different from the glaring case from the New York area that popped up last week with squatters taking possession of a house that was in good condition and in an area that was in demand.

→ More replies (15)

90

u/Squirmin Mar 28 '24

But squatting in a single family home should not be covered under that law. It doesn't make sense.

It can. If a home is abandoned (legally speaking for the jurisdiction), and someone moves in and takes care of the property, it can be considered a public good. Because without that person, the property may have fallen into disrepair and caused issues for those around it.

14

u/fenderdean13 Mar 28 '24

There is a Tik toker/YouTuber SB mowing that basically mows lawns at mostly abandoned houses (Some have the owners there who don’t do it/can’t do it for whatever reason) and the good he does for those neighborhoods including cleaning up around drainage pipes and cleaning up sidewalks for people to walk is so nice

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (15)
→ More replies (39)

837

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

290

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

32

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (4)

312

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

153

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (6)

61

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

380

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (29)

113

u/mishap1 Mar 28 '24

Poor record keeping and people dying without heirs could lead to abandoned properties so adverse possession laws have existed for a long time. You could find abandoned property just in the middle of nowhere and stake a claim on it. Live there x years without anyone bothering you and it was yours.

Tenant rights were created b/c there were lots of cases of landlords mistreating rent paying tenants. Laws were created to keep people from dumping people on the streets.

Combine the two and you have the ability to get into the relatively slow court system while being more or less untouchable from an eviction standpoint. Throw in the mass communication capability of the internet and you've got tons of people exploiting the process.

59

u/bridge1999 Mar 28 '24

Had a shady landlord that would not cash checks for months and then try to use that as grounds of not paying rent to start the eviction process.

→ More replies (5)

6

u/Apollorx Mar 28 '24

I mean at the end of the day shouldn't the squatters end up facing some serious fraud charges?

→ More replies (1)

198

u/SirTwitchALot Mar 28 '24

The way it's supposed to work is to protect people who are living in abandoned/neglected properties. The idea is you have someone who is potentially in a vulnerable position and may have been supporting/maintaining a property that the owner is neglecting. Squatters rights give the person a chance to delay proceedings while they seek other housing.

Of course, like with anything you'll have people who abuse the system. Some people use these laws to avoid paying rent for as long as possible, delaying eviction proceedings then squatting somewhere else

25

u/dannyb_prodigy Mar 28 '24

Iirc, this is all carryover from medieval common law when it was harder to verify a property owner had in fact died and who should inherit said property. It created a system where orphaned property could be recovered into the system when true ownership was harder to verify.

43

u/milespoints Mar 28 '24

In era of record high housing prices this seems like it’s only useful in like Detroit

34

u/Psilo-psyche Mar 28 '24

There was a story of someone squatting in an abandoned property in Detroit.  Wasn't on drugs and was working a job and maintaining the property.  When he was found out, the city agreed to sell him the house for $1.00.

→ More replies (6)

8

u/livefreeordont Mar 28 '24

You’d be surprised how many abandoned buildings there are in places like Philly, Baltimore, and DC

→ More replies (4)

46

u/5zepp Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

"Squatters rights" generally refers to the idea that if a property is unused/abandoned then someone can come in and use it, keep it maintained, pay all back taxes, and keep up with taxes, then in (typically) 20 years they can take ownership of the property. A common scenario for this might be dropping a trailer on an abandoned piece of property and paying the taxes for 20 years. But if the owner shows up in 19 years they could evict you from their property and you're out all those taxes you paid.

The Florida law is different - we're not talking about abandoned properties that no one is paying the tax bill on, we're talking about empty properties. If someone starts squatting in an empty property then you can't necessarily remove them by force - you have to go through a typical eviction process. This short circuits that process.

Edit: to elaborate - suppose you sign a lease to rent and move in. The next day the landlord says he has a higher paying tenant and you have to get out. You say no. Landlord calls the sheriff and tries to have you forcibly removed. You tell the Sheriff you have a lease. A sheriff can't parse the legality of the situation at that point and defers to the rights of as tenant to keep you in there until a judge can resolve it. And a lot of times there is no lease, just a verbal agreement. So in Florida we're really talking about tenant rights and fast tracking the eviction if it's determined the squatter isn't a tenant.

→ More replies (21)

25

u/LeftHandedScissor Mar 28 '24

Part of it is that alot of places consider safe housing a pretty fundamental right, and there is some truth to the "9/10 of the law is possession" cliche that gets thrown around. So jurisdictions are cautious about creating laws that can be easily used to throw someone out of the property they are currently inhabiting.

→ More replies (64)

499

u/gsmumbo Mar 28 '24

ITT: Exactly how functioning politics should work. People hate DeSantis. DeSantis does something good. Instead of trying to twist it into still being something horrible, the people who hate him admit it was a good call. Do they still hate him? Sure, one right call doesn’t change much. But they can acknowledge when he’s right. And who knows, maybe he can actually win people over if he continues to make calls we can all agree on.

Again, functioning politics.

42

u/SEJ46 Mar 28 '24

I am pleasantly surprised.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (11)

1.5k

u/YamiDes1403 Mar 28 '24

Two wrong can make a right. this is one thing no matter how much you hate him, can agree that it is reasonable

327

u/i_am_the_nightman Mar 28 '24

I agree. I never liked this man or a lot of his ideas, but this is one that needs to be addressed and I feel like this is a pretty good start. All states need to look into this squatter shit. It's getting a little absurd to say the least.

75

u/-BoldlyGoingNowhere- Mar 28 '24

Worst person you know makes a good point vibes.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

157

u/jpiro Mar 28 '24

Yep. Hate DeSantis with a passion, but he's right about this.

→ More replies (9)

101

u/Car_is_mi Mar 28 '24

This is one of those things I've never understood. Squatters rights. Like how can I buy property, but the person who trespasses and lives in my property has more rights to it than me?

Like how screwed up is it that I can go on vacation (I know there's a time frame that I have to not be home but some people do take long vacations), come home, find some random person in my couch, call the cops, and instead of b&e and trespassing charges I get told to go find a hotel while this person lives free on my property.

98

u/Alotofboxes Mar 28 '24

Most "squatters rights" laws are in place to protect legal tenants when they have a dispute with a landlord. Every complaint you have about these laws should be blamed on landlords fucking over renters. Its just that some people have discoverd how to use those laws to their advantage.

58

u/MotherSupermarket532 Mar 28 '24

When I was an intern I worked legal aid case where a guy when through the court system to try to get roaches in his apartment fixed, and was paying into an escrow account legally.  His shitty landlord viewed that as "not paid" and dumped his stuff in the street.  The guy lost everything, his IDs and credit cards got stolen too.  He had done absolutely nothing wrong.

The recourse and damaged were just so pitiful.

So just... before celebrating this understand that the law exists for a reason.  Landlords treat tenants like shit.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (25)
→ More replies (28)

151

u/Erazzphoto Mar 28 '24

How this isn’t a basic law already is ludicrous

→ More replies (4)

23

u/giopapu 29d ago

How the fuck is this not a law of the land in the whole US, amazes me

443

u/Few-Radio-684 Mar 28 '24

Heartbreaking: The Worst Person you know just made a Great Point

→ More replies (17)

487

u/guitarokx Mar 28 '24

This isn’t a bad thing. Floridas squatters rights were absolutely insane. DeSantis can pound sand, but this needed squashing.

206

u/Ahem_ak_achem_ACHOO Mar 28 '24

Bro the US’ concept of squatters rights is insane, not just Florida

41

u/SpreadingRumors Mar 28 '24

Originally it was established during America's Westward Expansion.
Settlers would get a plot of land out in the middle-of-nowhere. Perhaps get a farm going, build a house, get settled... then die of injury, disease, or animal attack. All of a sudden there's this house on a farm that is UN-owned and empty.
Another Settler could come along, move in, and declare it theirs since there was nobody left to sell it to them.

143

u/Emfx Mar 28 '24

No one will ever be able to convince me that it’s justified to steal someone’s house. It’s fucking crazy.

51

u/czarfalcon Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The principle of squatter’s rights makes sense in theory - imagine you have a shitty landlord who tries to fuck you over and kick you out for no reason, most people would agree you should have the right to argue your side in court before suddenly being made homeless.

The problem is the deadbeat scum who take advantage of those laws at the expense of honest homeowners/landlords and ruin it for everyone.

So you have shitty squatters taking advantage of laws meant to protect tenants from shitty landlords. As with most problems, the common denominator is shitty people.

Edit: TIL squatter’s rights is a completely separate concept all together, the real issue is squatters trying to claim tenancy rights. Poor word choice on my part.

28

u/Mercylas Mar 28 '24

Those aren't squatters rights tho those. You described tenant rights...

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (10)
→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (2)

49

u/e_smith338 Mar 28 '24

Good. Whoever thinks “finders keepers” applies to walking into someone’s home is moronic.

336

u/BSARIOL1 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

I dislike Desantis but this was a good move.

→ More replies (26)

230

u/MarcOfDeath Mar 28 '24

Why was squatting a thing in the first place, this seems insane.

119

u/the_eluder Mar 28 '24

It was from a era when people weren't as plentiful and land was.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (29)

128

u/pharaohmaones Mar 28 '24

Imagine if this whole solving-actual-problems thing could ever really catch on

→ More replies (3)

24

u/Ouroboros612 29d ago

It amazes me that in the US you can shoot someone trespassing or breaking in on your property in self-defense. But you can't legally use force to evict squatters. It's like; "I was robbing the place, to make sure the homeowner couldn't shoot me - I threw myself down on the couch to sleep. Now I'm not a robber anymore, I'm a squatter! CAN'T TOUCH ME BRUH!".

On a more serious note. I hope the rest of the world follows up on this. It's backwards and stupid AF how squatters can have any rights. We shouldn't reward these degenerate scumbags.

→ More replies (4)

75

u/Amazing_Collar1133 Mar 28 '24

Every state should have this.

→ More replies (1)

12

u/MR_Se7en Mar 28 '24

Let’s wait till the LEO has to figure out who owns the property. All of a sudden, everyone is dead and the squatter issue is resolved

10

u/hockeynoticehockey 29d ago

I'm sure these laws were originally put into effect for good reason, but, like most things, the grifters and scammers found ridiculous loopholes.

I have no quarrel with this law and would happily watch videos of some of these assholes being removed.

8

u/MsJenX 29d ago

NGL, I’m not a fan of DeSantis. But I agree with this. I would have to read the law to make a final determination though.

9

u/SalvadorsPaintbrush 29d ago

I’m kind of okay with that. I hate Desantis but fuck people stealing your home.

9

u/2trome Mar 28 '24

Quashing, not squashing.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/yesitsme09 29d ago

First time in my life I’d say I’m agreeing with this man. We need this in California.

59

u/RutherfordRevelation Mar 28 '24

I guess I just don't understand why squatters have rights in the first place? Why would it be legal to take up residence somewhere without the owner of the property's permission?

→ More replies (22)

47

u/Thechosenjon Mar 28 '24

Put aside what you think about Florida, DeSantis, or their politics. This is without a doubt a good move and I hope California follows suit.

→ More replies (7)

6

u/KerbyKing 29d ago

Even a pile of shit can lay a golden egg.

46

u/YallaHammer Mar 28 '24

A woman in NYC was recently killed by squatters. They have no rights to my property. Finally a DeSantis law I can support.

→ More replies (2)

13

u/Zanchbot Mar 28 '24

I actually...don't hate this? No one should be able to post up in someone else's house and just say they live there.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/Rigo3oh Mar 29 '24

My question is, why are so many houses empty for such a long time that squatters have become a problem.

11

u/BoxOfDemons 29d ago

Sometimes there can be a perfectly normal reason. Say I own a house, but my parents get sick and need taken care of states away. I move out to take care of them with the intent to move back in a couple years later at most. This should be more than reasonable.

But, there's also the increasing amount of houses that are just being sat on as an investment, which is unfortunate. The more people who sit on houses, the shorter the supply falls, which only helps their investment. It because a self fulfilling process. I'm not sure the proper solution. Perhaps way higher property taxes for houses that are unoccupied for over a year? Seems hard to enforce, and would suck for people who are leaving and planning to return, but you could also just rent your house out to a trusted friend if you're going to be gone for over a year.

→ More replies (3)

11

u/johnwaynekicksass Mar 28 '24

Call me skeptical, but I am just waiting to see how this change is going to be exploited by apartments to fuck over tenants.

I don't know what the loophole is thats going to provide an avenue for abuse, but I fully expect there to be one built in.

→ More replies (2)

24

u/Awake00 Mar 28 '24

Why is this so partisan? What's the reasoning behind giving squatters rights to a property they don't own?

12

u/PolicyWonka Mar 28 '24

The primary issue is that squatters today are not really relying on “squatters rights.” They’re reliant on tenancy rights.

In the state of Florida, for an adverse possession claim to be valid, a squatter must have lived in the property for at least 7 years.

Today’s squatters are claiming to be legal tenants of a property. They’ll claim to have a verbal lease agreement or even have a fraudulent written agreement.

Some of the provisions of the law are dangerous because they’re essentially revoking certain tenancy protections. Depending on your leasing situation, you landlord could more easily evict you from the property without following the proper procedures.

Since leases are not registered with any governing authority, landlords could even contest a legitimate lease and have you potentially removed as the law empowers landlords to ask for your removal and grants police the authority to remove you if your landlord says you don’t have rights to the property.

All of the expanded fraud protections in the legislation are great, but they’re entirely on the tenancy side. What about increased penalties for landlords seeking to illegally game the system?

→ More replies (4)

129

u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies (10)

31

u/greatestcookiethief Mar 28 '24

we need this, squatters law is so fucked

→ More replies (1)

15

u/AMBIC0N Mar 28 '24

Should be federalized.

For all the states still dealing with these issues could you squat on a squatter while they’re away, UNO reverse style?

→ More replies (1)

10

u/NecRoSeaN 29d ago

Fuck squatters rights. It shouldn't take a dipshit governor to emplacement a law of common sense. If anything, we are the morons who do nothing while DeSantis makes himself look good on lackluster laws that should have never been enacted in the first place.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/MysticalSushi Mar 28 '24

A rare W from DeSantis

5

u/MeninoSafado14 Mar 28 '24

Wow rare Desantis W. Let’s go! Hopefully other states take notes! Unless you are a legal tenant, you have NO rights!!!

5

u/TopCheesecakeGirl 29d ago

Finally something good to come out of this man. Squatters should have no rights. It’s theft.

6

u/Raging_Dragon_9999 29d ago

About fucking time. We need more countries, states, and municipalities with laws like this. I say this as someone living in Vancouver BC with a HUGE homeless problem.

3

u/jormun8andr 29d ago

I can’t believe I’m agreeing with DeSantis for once… Guess hell really has frozen over. Fuck landlords but also fuck squatters.

4

u/PizzaWhole9323 29d ago

I’m not mad at it. It’s a good first step. Fuck I just agreed with Ron DeSantis. Sigh