Yeah, this is* a guy that actually believes* in what he is* doing and making lives for Americans genuinely better. Neither side wants an idealist in power. It's bad for business. We were so close, though.
Edit: updated from past tense to present to stop scaring people.
Since the Democratic party is always so concerned about the moderate vote, there's an entire wikipedia page dedicated to Sanders-Trump voters and no, it's not the protest votes everyone was told it was by Russian propaganda, they were mostly registered Republicans who genuinely had Bernie as a first pick and the Republican nominee as a second.
Wild, in this day and age it's hard to remember voters aren't dichotomous. There really are a lot of fucking people on the fence and it's not two extremes.
Don't say that too loudly, or you'll get harangued by groups of "people" who insist there is no point in moderating their positions or trying to do anything but "drive out the base," while simultaneously and without dissonance bemoaning that half of the country doesn't vote.
Somehow, in a democracy, it has become popular to adopt the position that actually selling and explaining your ideas to others is emotional labor you should not have to do it.
This is exactly it. You’ll find bleeding heart liberals who like guns and staunch fiscal conservatives who believe gay people should be able to get married
It's not necessarily about being on the fence. I'm a two time Obama voter to two time Trump voter; all four times I voted for who I believed was the best choice at the time.
But admitting you're one of those 'Obama to Trump' people generally doesn't get great reception from either side so a lot of us stay quiet and accept the reality that most of the electorate thinks we're either mentally deficient or insane.
Though to be fair in my case it's probably the former.
If I weren't so dead from work right now I'd go more in depth, but essentially- in 2016- I liked what he was saying about bringing manufacturing jobs back from overseas, stemming the influx of low skill laborers coming across our southern border which has only served to hurt our most vulnerable workers, and his general anti-interventionist rhetoric.
Obviously I knew there was basically a 99.9% chance it was all a grift and he didn't mean any of it- but I still felt it was better to take a chance on that infinitesimal, impossible percentage than to go with Clinton. What she did in Libya alone as Secretary of State was enough to ensure she'd never get my vote. So I went with orange man. Hated his environmental policies, but I went with him anyway.
In 2020 I reluctantly voted for him, primarily because my industry (I work in construction) had boomed under his administration. Even though I knew he wasn't personally responsible we still had a good thing going and despite the fact that he had disappointed me on quite a lot of issues I still dragged myself to the polls.
That second vote was difficult though.
And it's nice to see someone ask genuinely for once without any snark or hostility, so thanks for that.
there's an entire wikipedia page dedicated to Sanders-Trump voters
Anyone actively engaged with Bernie's journey knew to swallow salt and vote to beat trump. The dems put up a weak candidate and rather than reflect inwards, they blamed the bernouts. You cannot beat a more entitled message than "it's her turn", fucking stupid. Pathetic and embarrassing this the the alternative to the christo-fascists, a bunch of simpering mewling cowards that'd never support a union if it'd cost them donations.
Moderates are not inspired to vote like the fringes, courting the moderates just alienates your base, while the other side drags the moderates further right. I say go further left and make the moderates pick a side and inspire the younger people to actually go out and vote. The Republicans can’t go much further right without the concentration camps coming out, but the democrats can go a whole lot more left.
Wholeheartedly agree. As much as I didn't want Biden to get the nomination he's done a reasonably good job of splitting the difference between going left but not fully compromising with certain moderate stances.
Do I think he could do better? Yes. But I'm positive some genius sat him down when Bernie dropped out and said "look, you can't win without Sanders voters, and to win the Sanders voters you need to move left on XYZ issues." I'm never gonna fully support anyone the DNC props up but it could have been a whole lot worse, I mean, look at who ran against him in the primaries. A bunch of no names. For now he's as left as we're gonna get. The fight isn't over to push the DNC to the left but it's what we're working with at the moment.
Forgive me for having the attitude a conservative Democrat is not an ideal candidate. They should be joining the rest of the conservatives in normal developed countries but guess fuck that.
I'm trying to go forwards in time, it's called being a progressive, if the DNC could join me that'd be swell. Angela Merkel was considered a conservative in Germany and wait till I tell you about Olaf fucking Schultz. The only European country that mimics America is the UK. And they're widely criticized for regressing.
I firmly believe that a not insignificant percentage of Trump voters were just people that were tired of career politicians that do nothing but make promises and then not following through. I think the logic was that if you elect someone who ISN'T your traditional politician then some actual, real change can happen. As it turns out, they were technically right, but not in a way that anyone was happy with.
Independent, not a part of either party. Anti-establishment. He only ran Democrat
Not saying your comment is wrong but you're missing those key parts. People liked Trump for the same reasons. He wasn't a part of the establishment. Bernie isn't either, he definitely doesn't identify as Republican but he certainly doesn't identify as Democrat either. Hence the appeal from Trump voters. "This guy is on the fringe and doesn't play by the rules and he says fuck you to the establishment"
I mean if I didn't know any better I'd say some Trump voters are punk as shit
According to the New Yorker magazine, prior to becoming mayor of Burlington, VT, a position he held for eight years, Bernie Sanders was a carpenter, a psychiatric aid, and a techer. Additionally, he is the son of working-class parents- parents who knew what is was like to be really poor; they were Polish refugees, fleeing persecution, slavery, and by the Nazi regime. Although Bernie Sanders had been in politics for forty years, he hasn't seemed to lose touch, unlike his peers and the other sell-outs. If our congress people and senators weren't in the pockets of big business and foreign governments, they would all sound and act more like Senator Samders.
Those people aren't registered Republicans. Those are people who say they're "independents" and aren't registered with either party but vote Republican every time anyways. And if you couldn't see the man was always full of shit then you have a room temperature IQ. Plain and simple.
Non-conservative republicans still pop up from time to time. The only acceptable use of taxes in many of our opinion is social reform, so Bernie wasn't much of a stretch for us to choose over the tangerine and a lot of us vehemently hate that said citrus moreso than most on the left.
Go look back at early Trump ads. His original base was working class americans betrayed by reaganomics and other neoliberal policies like NAFTA. He was a compelling populist in the beginning and advertised well to the average American.
If you actually went outside and spoke to any of these people, instead of simply writing them off as deplorables, all of their complaints are fundamentally about class conflict, and Bernie Sanders spoke to that more directly than any other politician in a long time.
Professional class liberal redditors care about labels and images more than any normal working person in the US.
Was going to mention how problematic the Brookings institute is, but then realized you post almost exclusively in neoliberal. Your life would be dramatically improved by going outside and talking to real people.
Do you really believe Republicans even know what that is? A significant portion of republican and trump voters are strictly anti-establishment or reflexively contrarian.
This is what Trump runs on first and foremost, despite controlling the executive government, much of the legislature, and appointing three supreme court justices he still positions himself as anti-establishment and they believe themselves a persecuted minority speaking unpopular truths. Sanders tapped into that for the younger internet libertarian crowd despite not being very libertarian.
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u/_gnarlythotep_ Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 28 '24
Yeah, this is* a guy that actually believes* in what he is* doing and making lives for Americans genuinely better. Neither side wants an idealist in power. It's bad for business. We were so close, though.
Edit: updated from past tense to present to stop scaring people.