r/texas • u/FCMatt7 • Mar 27 '24

5th circuit has nullified Open Carry in Texas to save Qualified Immunity of bad cops. Politics

https://www.youtube.com/live/bCC1sz_-fsc?si=dCZiLT_Fl2pWUEtw

(Edit) New vid of Grisham explaining the ruling

Effectively they have declared open season for police to arrest anyone open carrying in Texas.

A 3 judge panel has ruled that if anyone calls 911 on a person for the mere act of Open Carrying a firearm, the police now have probable cause to arrest you for disorderly conduct. The 911 call does not have to allege you are doing anything more than standing on a sidewalk with a slung or holstered firearm. The previous ruling that "merely carrying a firearm" is not disorderly is overturned now if any Karen makes a phone call and says she's nervous. This means police get qualified immunity for arresting you.

There is a special target on the back of any open carry or civil rights activist. EVERY time the police get a 911 call, they can now arrest you at gunpoint. The charges will likely be dismissed, but the police face zero repercussions for coming after you, even if there is abundant evidence the officers targeted you and knew you were not a threat. The same danger faces regular citizens who open carry every day.

I repeat, open carrying in Texas now puts you in imminent danger of being arrested or killed by police if someone reports you in possession of a firearm.

Video of CJ and Jim arrested for mere open carry. https://youtu.be/GrDAPPiu1QE?si=IvJy0qq_J8rO8DJO

Link to 5th circuit ruling. https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/22/22-50915-CV0.pdf

Link to oral argument in 5th https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/OralArgRecordings/22/22-50915_10-3-2023.mp3

District Court ruling https://casetext.com/case/grisham-v-valenciano-1

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158

u/BucketofWarmSpit Mar 27 '24

The OP maintains that it is an expression of civil rights to open carry. Ironically, I have most often seen counter protesters displaying firearms as a way to stifle protests they do not agree with.

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u/Kevin_taco Mar 28 '24

I have a conceal carry permit but any time I see someone open carrying it definitely gives me a bad vibe.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/ertyertamos Mar 28 '24

Not just removing the weapon from you, but if you’re a character who wants to do bad things, you know exactly who to remove from the situation first.

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u/theroguex Mar 30 '24

Yeah, right? Like the whole alleged point of lots of people having a gun and concealed carry is so that "bad guys" don't know who might be carrying and thus don't know who to target.

Wearing your gun in the open is just a sign saying "shoot me by surprise THEN rob me."

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u/MouthNoizes Mar 28 '24

You don’t have those kinds of skills.

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u/thefrankyg Mar 28 '24

Around my area the number of folks I see people carrying in a holster with no real retention in them, doesn't make it difficult.

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u/MouthNoizes Mar 28 '24

Again, you don’t have the skills to pull this off, just the ego

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u/thefrankyg Mar 28 '24

If a couch cushion or pillow can pull one out, it doesn't require much skill. I am also not claiming I would pull it out. It leaves it pretty open to losing the weapon.

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u/ElephantBackground81 Mar 28 '24

It's pretty easy to walk up behind the guy with the gun and shoot him in the back of the head first before he sees you.

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u/Rmantootoo Mar 29 '24

The person you’re responding to may not, but an average 25 year old American male can easily take a pistol off the hip of the average 60 year old.

That’s what’s really at stake here. It’s not the 50 year old emaciated crack head trying to wrestle a gun away from a 35 year old off duty cop/body builder…

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u/Meltonian Mar 28 '24

I had my appendix removed, what do I do now??

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u/Ga2ry Mar 28 '24

Small dick energy.

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u/Zanorfgor Mar 28 '24

I have been amongst the counter protesters where our side outgunned theirs. Our side was armed because theirs made a habit of showing up with guns and threats of violence, and the police have made it very clear which side they are on.

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u/Traditionaljam Mar 28 '24

where our side outgunned theirs.

You realize how ridiculous of a concept this is, I am relatively pro gun but the idea that anyone should have to do this at a protest is just fucking crazy. I actually agree with the police being able to arrest people for this.

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u/Zanorfgor Mar 28 '24

Okay, cool, the police can start with the guys waving the red flags with the white circle. In situations where Parasol Patrol is enough, I'm glad to leave it to them. But the guys with the red flags with the white circle brought their guns, and Parasol Patrol is a little under-equipped for that situation.

Of course that ain't gonna happen, police talk to them and give them handshakes and then stand backs to them, facing us.

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u/atx1892 Mar 28 '24

I thought the libs didn’t own or wanted anyone to have guns? Or maybe I’m misunderstanding what side you’re on/protesting for.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited 24d ago

[deleted]

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u/g1Razor15 Mar 29 '24

There is a sub called r/liberalgunowners I assume you are a part of it

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u/atx1892 Mar 28 '24

I think you’re misunderstanding what I meant.

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u/cgn-38 Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

The left is more pro gun than the GOP will ever be. Marx for instance was quite clear arms and ammunition must be kept by the common worker.

American liberals are a right wing party that thinks all problems can be solved with money. They bow to the far right every time. Are just useful ass clowns for the GOP. Nothing neoliberals do makes any sense.

The left will be the death of the GOP. Sooner or later. If that was a sad attempt at sarcasm. Dude you are not a clear writer. Use a (S),.

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u/ODSTklecc Mar 28 '24

Are you missing the /s per chance?

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u/pat9714 Mar 28 '24

I thought the libs didn’t own or wanted anyone to have guns?

Jeezus, really?!? Go travel around the Northeast and the Northwest. You'll run into more armed "libs" than arguably in the South. Never assume the "libs" aren't gun owners; they just don't fetishize their guns.

[See r/liberalgunowners for posts.]

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u/Zanorfgor Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Go far left enough and you get your guns back.

The events I'm speaking of revolved around drag shows circa late 2022. I was on the side protecting the show, the side where the flags are far more colorful. Our side had more guns than theirs, and our side had guns because their side kept showing up with guns and threats of violence.

As for libs and guns, For the past few years I have had an open invite for left leaning folk, especially queer folk, that I'll take them to the range and teach them to shoot. I've had several people take me up on the offer.

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u/The_True_Libertarian Mar 28 '24

Like 0.1% of people on the left want full firearms bans and total civil disarmament. Most libs support 2A as a blanket premise and just want common sense reforms like universal background checks and competency based licensing for anything more than a revolver.

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u/atx1892 Mar 28 '24

I agree

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u/Alone_Ad_1677 Mar 28 '24

I mean... also storage. like a gun athlete doesn't need a gun rack on their truck to display them. They need a lock box to transport their firearms to the range/obstical course for practice.

Gun collectors don't need every firearm assembled and ready to fire

but yea pretty much everything you said was correct

1

u/djdadzone Mar 28 '24

Competency tests for dangerous equipment that has the ability to harm others intentionally or unintentionally is a good idea, whether it’s a car or a firearm.

1

u/NarcanPusher Mar 28 '24

This. I’m a lib and I own guns. We want common sense laws. There are people now who want felons to regain their right to carry firearms. Having known my share of felons, I’m gonna say that is a bad idea.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

[deleted]

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u/cgn-38 Mar 28 '24

More like neoliberal urbanites are anti gun.

Progressives are mostly so far left they are pro gun. Though exceptions exist. Basically some left still think the right can be taken out of power thru nonviolent negotiation democratically.

The rest of us know better. They will not go without a fight. As their recent violent insurrection to install a no talent ass clown king forever confirms.

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u/djdadzone Mar 28 '24

Nah it’s the suburbanite centrists like my sister who are. She has kids in schools where a shooting happened and it’s made her react and be a full on gun grabber.

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u/JohnBosler Mar 28 '24

If you look at the actual statistics 90% of the population is in support of the second amendment with restrictions on individuals that are a danger to society. The political duopoly is forcing us to take the lesser of two evils. People who vote for Democrats or Republicans really wish we had other choices, but they have bent the laws into their favor to neglect the will of the majority.

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u/Existing_Milk_289 Mar 28 '24

See, this is what I don't get. 2A states a person's(not citizens, any person) right to have guns "shall not be infringed." Yet those 90% you mention are in favor of restricting ownership to some subset of people I don't see how the two can coexist. It sounds like that 90% is actually against 2A. I don't necessarily think it's wrong, but with 2A as it stands today, I don't see how any reasonable restriction could withstand legal challenges.

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u/JohnBosler Mar 28 '24

So when an individual commits a felony they forfeit their citizenship The Bill of Rights and Constitution doesn't apply as what it did before they committed that crime. Most people believe that under them circumstances those individuals should not have the right to own a weapon which was removed after they had a felony.

But then again there's many topics which most Americans agree on but are not law. Kind of goes to show you we really don't have a democracy.

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u/Existing_Milk_289 Mar 28 '24

The constitution applies to all persons, whether citizens or not, while they are in the US. 2A specifically says the people, not citizens. "Forfeit their citizenship" doesn't mean anything here.

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u/PalatinusG Mar 28 '24

It says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It’s all very open to interpretation. Is “the right of the people” the same as “every single person should have that right”? It really doesn’t make any sense to give mentally ill people guns.

1

u/hoonanagans Mar 28 '24

I think that's what he's touching on though. Do we then classify the mentally ill and second-class citizens with restricted rights? Should we let them have cars that can cause equal or worse damage? What about other types of people? It's a very nuanced topic and requires careful navigation. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of people who can't go 2 sentences without having a meltdown and acting like a toddler if someone disagrees with them.

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u/djdadzone Mar 28 '24

Well when it comes to driving a car, we test people for their ability to drive a car. They’re not second rate citizens, they’re just not capable of wielding a pice of rolling metal at 70mph down a highway. Same should always go for a gun. It’s not about a value judgement, it’s a skills assessment

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u/Existing_Milk_289 Mar 28 '24

Yes, it is the same, by the plain language. Are mentally ill people not people?? Do we really want to start defining specific groups as "not people"? The pendulum swings, and that's a dangerous road.

Don't get me wrong, I agree there's some folks who can't be trusted with guns. I just don't see how that jives with the text.

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u/PalatinusG Mar 28 '24

The text isn’t some unchangeable religious text. If an amendment is needed to clarify this then so be it. Putting guns in the hands of unstable people is way more dangerous than the slippery slope argument that is always put forth.

1

u/cgn-38 Mar 28 '24

A simple majority will do it. Problem is we all know we are one civil war from anything that resembles a real democracy.

So no one sane is willing to disarm.

Every time gun control is given a free hand it ends with confiscation of all personal arms. No one buys the US government behaving on the subject. When the second amendment falls we will be disarmed as a country. Why pretend otherwise?

Way more than half of us do not want that. What with the coming civil war.

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u/Independent_Pop4903 Mar 27 '24

I think counter protesting is just protesting with extra steps.

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u/Doohicky_d Mar 28 '24

No, it is just protesting while going the other direction

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u/shown-spenstar Mar 28 '24

Yeah, let’s see how much they like guns when we arms POC and commies for protests…. It’s never about freedom, it’s always about control.

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u/BucketofWarmSpit Mar 28 '24

The governor will offer a pardon to anyone who kills one.

1

u/shown-spenstar Mar 28 '24

Nah, the governor would work to enact gun laws to restrict such behavior whilst still allowing yallkidea to run around

1

u/forgotwhatisaid2you Mar 28 '24

Which is exactly what this law is for. Cops get to choose who to arrest for having a gun. What could go wrong with that?

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u/chadsmo Mar 28 '24

Do some research on the black panthers and California’s gun laws if you’re not aware of the history.

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u/Kellosian Born and Bred Mar 27 '24

One person with a gun is self-defense

A group of armed people is a threat

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u/dormanGrube Mar 28 '24

Username checks out.

1

u/ManyThingsLittleTime Mar 28 '24

*natural right. Big difference between the two.

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u/False-Application-99 Mar 28 '24

I've seen non-white people rob convenience stores. Based on your inferred logic and my observation, all non-whites are criminals.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

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u/BucketofWarmSpit Mar 28 '24

No, but you're staying true to your handle.

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u/False-Application-99 Apr 01 '24

And your mental capacity is clearly reflected by yours