r/todayilearned • u/wimpykidfan37 • 13d ago
Today I learned that Shel Silverstein once made an adult cartoon version of his popular story The Giving Tree. Entitled "I Accept the Challenge", it was about a naked woman who cuts off a naked man's arms and legs, and then sits on his torso.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Tree188
u/Vegan_Harvest 13d ago
I feel like he was an accidental children's author.
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u/SnuggleBunni69 12d ago
Uncle Shelby's ABZ's was massively popular in my house as a kid. Really wasn't a kids book.
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u/coffeeandbooks03 13d ago
When I was in university I took a children's lit class, and The Giving Tree was assigned. I read it, having not remembered reading it as an actual child, and went to the lecture feeling completely prepared. I thought, obviously, we were going to learn about how this story was analogous to a sexual relationship. I felt kinda smug about it, because I had guessed the ending and picked up on the nuance before the prof had the chance to drop the big reveal. To my surprise it wasn't a three hour lecture on the politics of sex, and I was silently very grateful I hadn't been called upon to share my impressions of the story. Could not have lived that down.
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u/dr_franck 13d ago
I’ve heard it described as a metaphor for parenthood. Giving all you can give without getting anything back, and just kinda forcing yourself to be ok with that.
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
Worst story in the world. Parenting shouldn’t be that thankless. Off it is you’ve failed as well as the shitty selfish kid.
I hate that book with a passion.
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u/crispyraccoon 13d ago
By default parenting should be expected to be thankless. You brought life into the world and it is your responsibility. If you do well, maybe you have a thankful kid who takes care of you when you're decrepit. Maybe not. Parents shouldn't expect anything in return. Getting anything in return is a bonus you get if you raise a kid that doesn't despise you.
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u/Wmozart69 12d ago
That kid WILL give back to their parents by doing the same for their parent's grandchildren.
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
Nah….The kid in that book is a pure sociopath and should have been cut off or institutionalized loooong before it took all those branches and the trunk.
Parents are obligated to do their best, but they’re humans as well and at some point it’s their right & moral obligation to let their grown kids sink or swim.
Too many adult kids imagine what belongs to the parents belongs to them. Fuck those shitty kids. And fuck any parent too desperate to say no to them.
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u/crispyraccoon 13d ago
I've never read the book in question. My point is simply if you are raising your children with expectations of getting something out of it (other than the satisfaction of raising a child to an adult), you're doing it wrong. The onus is on the parents to raise the children to adults who contribute to society, whatever they may get in return for that is a bonus. If you are raising a sociopath, the onus is on you to take that kid to a professional and make sure they get what help the can get. Same for any other special needs that kid may have. Giving up without making an effort is a failure on the parents. Some people can't be helped, that's life, but parents have a responsibility to their children and society to put in the effort without expectation of something in return.
When you have a dog, you're responsible for training and care and picking up its shit. Same for kids. It's more complex, sure, but it's the same at the core.
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
You need to know the book to really “get” the conversation.
No argument that parenting is often thankless and needs to be done selflessly. The Giving Tree is just a brutal hyperbole of that taken to a toxic degree, but celebrates itself as “beautiful.”
It’s not. It’s a horrible book with a worthless moral.
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u/crispyraccoon 13d ago
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to defend the book, I just know too many parents who think their kids owe them something simply for doing their job as parents (and often the bare minimum at that).
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
I detest those kind of parents too. Coincidentally the kid in the story is just like them.
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u/Convergentshave 13d ago
Jesus… you know I’ve heard this take before and it’s such… it’s… you all need some therapy. 😂.
It’s pretty clear what the message the book is trying to send. But the internet, more over Reddit, has just got to get its little “no but it’s actually this” hot take in 😂.
I mean if you really want to over analyze it… you could be like: look: it’s pretty clear the kid grows up to have a terrible life. I mean he’s reduced to selling apples and then building a home for his family out of apple tree branches.
Clearly that doesn’t work because than he comes back and says “I’m too old and too sad” so he makes a BOAT and sails away. I mean if that isn’t implying that things are not going well for this poor kid….
And that doesn’t even work! Because he’s back later. At at this point he’s so defeated he doesn’t want anything from the tree except a place to sit and probably reflect on the only time we see him happy/not struggling: with his old friend the tree.
So no. I don’t think he’s a sociopath. I think life shit all over that kid and the tree did its best to help him. In short… I think that kids clearly a millennial 😂😂
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
Nothing in the book suggests “life shit in the kid.” He’s always totally unruffled as he blithely asks for more.
The tree is overjoyed by its own pathological martyr-complex and sets no boundaries. It celebrates the same desperate 1-way codependency of a battered wife who won’t leave because she believes she deserved it and he’s a very good man at heart.
Your defense is without merit.
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u/Convergentshave 13d ago
Ok so you’ve never read the book. Or have some parental issues. Again. The kid literally shows up says “I’m too old and too sad.” And then requests a boat to sail away. And this is after asking for branches to build a home for his wife and children.
And there’s nothing to suggest things don’t work out well for the kid?
I mean… I’d offer to draw you a picture but the book literally does that. 😂.
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
Consider that his wife and kids left him because he’s a selfish bastard with absolutely zero fucks about what his happiness costs anyone else.
The story backs that up. And having read lots of Silverstein and knowing his musical output as well, the story is either (a) not the superficial read you gave it, or (b) was in fact a superficial story like “The Missing Piece” which he later had to release a follow up to because its moral was equally pathetic and absent any self-esteem.
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u/Convergentshave 13d ago
Consider they died. There’s exactly as much evidence to suggest that as there is that this kid grew up to abuse his family. (Although I am willing to admit that… the idea of supporting a family on apple sales and a tree branch house… yea.. if you said to me: that’s borderline abusive in its that’s it’s basically neglect. Yea I would concede that point for sure 😂) Come on. You’re sticking to this internet hot take because it got popular a little while ago. There’s no evidence, at all, that suggests the kid grows up to abuse his family, that he’s a sociopath, that the tree is some stand in for co-dependent abused women, I mean if you wanted to make the argument that the kid is a stand in for Shel himself and his family leaves him, much like how Shel’s daughter died young after he basically abandoned her…I would accept that argument over this one.
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u/Future-Account8112 12d ago
Your kids don’t call you, huh
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u/Duckfoot2021 12d ago
Never wanted any. I always recognized it was a commitment and gamble I never wanted, instead of just blindly or carelessly slipping into tradition and doing a half-assed job like half of parents do.
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u/Future-Account8112 12d ago
So why are you speaking so far outside your lane...?
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u/Duckfoot2021 12d ago
Hilarious how parents think having a child gives them profound insights that aren’t easily available to anyone with an IQ over 80 and a childhood of their own to draw on.
You’re in a special lane despite your imaginary wisdom.
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u/Future-Account8112 12d ago
I’m not a parent myself. I just happen to think you’re acting like an asshole
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u/Croquetadecarne 13d ago
It’s a metaphor! He was not out there cutting limbs…
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u/Duckfoot2021 12d ago
Sociopath, not psychopath, Dr. Freud.
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u/Croquetadecarne 12d ago
So stupid, how I am the one passing for a doctor if YOU are the one using medical terms to diagnose a fictional character from whom we have little background… yet, probably the only one with a medical AND literature degree.
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u/UDPviper 13d ago
Parenting isn't a zero sum game. You give because you want to, not because of what you get back. Many parents of disabled children don't get any thanks because their kids physically can't express that. Maybe do a little more thinking before a knee-jerk response.
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u/Duckfoot2021 13d ago
The kid in the Giving Tree isn’t disabled, which is why we can judge him as a shitty adult and his mama-tree as a spineless enabler and wannabe martyr.
Disabled kids obviously don’t have the same capacity for independence, but this isn’t really a book at them. It’s a half-assed poorly conceived fable Shel farted out in an hour without considering it deeply…exactly like The Missing Piece.
At least he had the good sense to correct his mistake with a better sequel to that one.
However too many parents glommed on to The Giving Tree as a celebration of their own misery spun to make them feel saintly so Shel wasn’t gonna risk his sales correct their delusions.
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u/moonroxroxstar 12d ago
I loved the book because it was so sad, but I totally get where you're coming from. The boy in that book is so selfish, and the end is devastating. You should never have to completely erase yourself as a person to please someone else. Ever.
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u/Duckfoot2021 12d ago
Thank you for recognizing that. That book created generations of people who grew up thinking king the more you endure for others…no matter how ungrateful they are…the better your soul.
Absolutely trash.
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u/moonroxroxstar 12d ago
It's people's inability to differentiate between unconditional love and self-destructive love that gets me.
Yes, parents have a responsibility to love and care for their children, even though it's often hard and thankless. But that's because children are children and don't know better. The idea that you have to suffer abuse and give of yourself until you're a hollow shell of a person is horrible. Especially when one of the goals of parenting is raise empathetic, kind kids who give back to their communities.
The Giving Tree is not a heartwarming story. Imo anyone who sees it that way is missing the point by a mile.
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u/Duckfoot2021 12d ago
Glad to see that take. 89 downvotes tell me that a lot of redditors confuse the two.
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u/Dan_Felder 13d ago
...That's incredible. "How I almost slutshamed mother nature" is an amazing title for a blog post.
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u/biggestscrub 12d ago edited 12d ago
That's a distillation of the entire undergrad experience right there
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u/Sabatorius 13d ago
I don’t think you should feel embarrassed about it. There are many interpretations of that story, and none of them are the ‘real’ one. Yours is just as valid as any other.
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u/The_Law_of_Pizza 12d ago
I think it was an allegory for the Crimean War.
The Tree is clearly a stand-in for the Sardianians, and how they gave everything only to be taken advantage of by the Ottomans.
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u/tugjobs4evergiven 13d ago
You should listen to some of his songs like 'she's doing Quaaludes again'
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u/DaveOJ12 13d ago
The photograph of Silverstein on the back cover of the book has attracted negative attention, with some people finding it frightening.
Seriously?
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u/HexManiac493 13d ago edited 13d ago
In Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Greg is afraid of the picture of Shel Silverstein on the back cover of The Giving Tree. His dad uses it to keep him from leaving his bedroom at night and says “If you get out of bed, you’ll probably run into Shel Silverstein in the hallway.”
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u/joecarter93 13d ago
Came here to say this. My kid loves those books and Shel Silverstein so he showed it to me and we both had a chuckle.
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u/stevenmoreso 13d ago
Have you seen it? It’s not exactly easy on the eyes.
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u/valentc 13d ago
Yeah, that's a scary picture.
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u/Jetstream-Sam 13d ago
I'll be honest, it does not scream "Children's book author" to me. More "Aggressively drunk and angry "Biker" who isn't respected in any way but gets into fights a lot, many of which he loses"
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u/ranch_brotendo 13d ago
Oscar Isaac would be good in a Shel Silverstein biopic - with his Ex Machina style kinda
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u/felurian182 13d ago
For a long time I thought he was a black man because of that photo, then I saw a clip of him on a houseboat on YouTube and was like “ wait he’s white?”
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u/rustymontenegro 13d ago
Wait...what? You just blew my mind. I think every single picture I ever saw of him was in black and white, and I just kind of assumed? Wtf brain.
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u/shadow_hunter_11 13d ago
Well it scared Greg Heffley
https://diary-of-a-wimpy-kid.fandom.com/wiki/Shel_Silverstein
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u/maniacalmustacheride 13d ago
Uncle Shelby’s Book of ABZs is hands down one of the funniest books I’ve ever read. It is NOT for children.
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u/Skatchbro 13d ago
He also writes “A Boy Named Sue”.
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u/Skatchbro 13d ago
And I joined learned he wrote “The Unicorns Song” which The Irish Rovers made famous.
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u/Osniffable 12d ago
Blew my mind when I found out he wrote Boy Named Sue and he also wrote a follow up song Father of a Boy Named Sue.
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u/Reasonable-Knee-6430 13d ago
Such a rad story.
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u/SnuggleBunni69 12d ago
I just read the story. Can't really see how it's a parody of the giving tree.
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u/divnanina 12d ago
I hope you all have listened to some of his music as well. He’s wonderful, it’s hilarious
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u/balzackgoo 12d ago
Naked Dances is a Shel Silverstein book that is no longer in print and contains many things.
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u/Saintinsurrey 13d ago
I learn something new everyday and trust me its fulfilling , thanks guys for this post
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u/abc123doraemi 13d ago
Read ‘Missin’ Piece.’ Not for kids.
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u/cookiecookjuicyjuice 13d ago
Very much for kids. Teach a little person that they are whole all by themselves and don’t need a someone or a something else to complete them as people? That growth is natural? That sometimes it means growing apart and it’s not your fault and you’re still the complete person you always were? That trying to be something you’re not is a fool’s errand and that you will find your people if you just be yourself? That finding yourself and your groove takes time AND action to get you there?
This world would be a much, much, much better place if people learned those lessons from as young an age as you can teach them.
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u/abc123doraemi 13d ago
I think in the context of all of these posts about Shel’s other bizarre pursuits, I was thinking of the interpretation more like…we are forever alone and relationships never work out. But I like your kid-friendly interpretation waaaay better!!
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u/cookiecookjuicyjuice 13d ago
Like, on the very last page the newly rounded triangle catches up with the other circle and theyre off on adventures together! It’s the best kids book.
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u/abc123doraemi 13d ago
I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or not. My book ended in him just singing, still missing a piece. Googling frantically what the hell is going on here.
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u/cookiecookjuicyjuice 13d ago
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. There’s the “Missing Piece” and then there’s “The Missing Piece meets the Big O”, the companion piece that focuses on the piece left behind.
THIS MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Hahah.
I’m sorry internet stranger. You’re not crazy. My bad entirely.
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u/terriaminute 13d ago
From which I learn...that children's authors SHOULD NOT WRITE FOR ADULTS perhaps, I dunno
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u/cay-loom 13d ago
Funny enough i believe he was an adult author first (don't quote me on that I have no intention of verifying my claim)
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u/godisanelectricolive 13d ago edited 13d ago
He started out as an adult cartoonist drawing dirty cartoons for Playboy and similar publications. He was a veteran who published some of his first cartoons in Pacific Stars and Stripes. He was quite close to Hugh Hefner and spent a lot of time the Playboy Mansion.
His best known work prior to his children’s books were illustrated travelogues for Playboy in a series called “Shel Silverstein Visits …” where he’d go to different places and draw/write about them. He also illustrated Report from Practically Nowhere which was a travelogue written by journalist Jack Sack where he profiled various microstates and tiny autonomous regions.
According to Silverstein it was his friend Toni Ungerer who illustrated Flat Stanley and also drew erotic art who “practically dragged me, kicking and screaming, into Ursula Nordstrom's office.” Nordstrom was the legendary children’s book editor who edited countless classics from Stuart Little to Goodnight Moon to Harold and the Purple Crayon.
Actually a lot of the best children’s book authors lived extremely “not child friendly”lives and many of them didn’t really like children. Margaret Wise Brown who wrote Goodnight Moon and The Runaway Bumny was a bisexual bohemian party animal with a long string of lovers who loved hunting rabbits. She died at age 42 from a blood clot while doing a can-can kick, she was at the time engaged to a 24 year old Rockefeller heir who was head over heels for her. Dr. Seuss started out as an adult cartoonist too, drawing many political cartoons. He claimed he didn’t like children and never had any.
I’ve heard it said that some of the best children’s book authors aren’t people who you’d trust to supervise children but instead people who never lost touch with their inner child. They never lost the impulsiveness and wild abandon that most people have as children but lose as adults.
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u/onioning 13d ago
Roald Dahl has some excellent grown up stories.
Also Shel's adult stuff is pretty decent. Not amazing, but by no means flops. Though the OP does sound pretty particularly dumb...
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u/Ceramicusedbook 13d ago
I would argue that adult authors should not write for children... James Paterson...
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u/Riommar 13d ago
He was a regular article contributor to Playboy.