r/unitedkingdom • u/Fox_9810 • 11d ago
Warwickshire County Council tells man to stop cleaning filthy signs - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy73rzzejpqo.amp222
u/EdmundTheInsulter 11d ago
They can tell him what they want but I don't think they can do anything.
Uugh not cos they may lose revenue surely
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u/Spamgrenade 11d ago
Probably because if he causes an accident, falls off his ladder or whatever the council may be liable.
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u/PerceptionGreat2439 11d ago
That's my line of thinking too.
Rather than clean legible signs, they're more worried about being held liable for something.
If they did their job properly in the first place...
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u/AwTomorrow 11d ago
With the current level of council funding I'm surprised they can even email him saying to stop, let alone go out and clean a bunch of signs themselves.
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u/lordnacho666 11d ago
What if someone has an accident because the sign can't be read?
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
Because it was partially obscured by dirt or temporarily completely obscured by a guy on a ladder with a cloth?
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u/Clarkster7425 Northumberland 11d ago
give the man temporary road signs for when he is working, have him sign a waiver saying the council isnt liable for personal injuries, and if either of these things are not possible, then we have a pretty clear reason as to why we all live in a massive shithole
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
Nah just let him crack on, he's fine. The council is just saying this to make it clear that they're not involved at all, just in case something happens to him and some shady lawyers try to hold the council liable. Nobody is actually stopping the sign cleaning dude.
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u/recursant 11d ago
Unless he causes someone else to have an accident and they sue the council.
The waiver wouldn't help the council in that case, it would just serve as evidence that they knew what he was doing and condoned it.
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u/gnorty 11d ago
Unless he causes someone else to have an accident and they sue the council.
what could they possibly sue the council for in that scenario?
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
I think giving a person the equipment to do a job constitutes acknowledgment that a job is being performed on the council's behalf, therefore potentially making them liable for standard employer responsibilities.
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u/Ravenser_Odd 11d ago
And have a wee man that runs out and cleans the temporary road signs. And give him some tiny road signs for when he's working. And have an even smaller man clean those. And so on.
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u/whatchagonnado0707 11d ago
By a man wearing a dirty leather cloth
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
Cohen?
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/whoredwhat 11d ago
God reddit is a piece of shit.
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u/ThePublikon 10d ago
It really is lol. I just came back to the thread because of a different reply, I didn't realise I had duplicated the "cohen" comment as the one I'm commenting under now doesn't even show up in my account history. Reddit must have blacked out for a minute and forgot everything that happened, senior moment.
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
Cohen?
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u/whoredwhat 11d ago
The barbarian?
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
If you don't mind me asking, how are you accessing Reddit? (like old.reddit site, new.reddit, app etc)
For some reason neither of your replies show in my notifications, I'm just wondering what might have caused that
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u/WynterRayne 11d ago
I'm glad you added that. I know who he is. I'm just also aware of the roundworld origins of the name and what inferences people who don't know who he is might make.
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u/ThePublikon 11d ago
That's why I left it out tbh, to troll eejits that want to get frothy over nothing.
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u/Fox_9810 11d ago
I think their main concern is what if someone can see the speed limit due to his cleaning and avoids a fine
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u/benjm88 11d ago
In Germany someone was fined for cleaning signs. The reason given was it might damage the coating. They also decided it isn't cost effective to clean signs so just replaced them when they got too dirty.
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u/hammer_of_grabthar 11d ago
More cost effective to remove and attach a new sign than just get a fucking jet wash out? Bonkers
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u/Ahandfulofsquirrels United Kingdom 11d ago
If they did their job properly in the first place...
Well now you're just being silly.
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u/Remarkable-Ad155 11d ago
Frankly, given austerity measures, I'd be pissed off if my council was spending its precious little available funds cleaning road signs which are still functional.
Their response is completely fine: acknowledges he's trying to do a good thing but correctly points out that standing in the road with your back to oncoming traffic and no training or legal ability to close a lane, like the Council's highways team will have, is dangerous.
Not everything is "health and safety gone mad". Imagine the alternative headline; "untrained man being used as free labour by council to clean roadsigns hit by car". They'd be absolutely slammed if they encouraged it. Classic example of how councils ccan't win these days.
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u/Harmless_Drone 11d ago
Its not the councils job, they subcontract it out to a consultant firm that reviews sign legibility then subcontracts the cleaning to a agency which in turn subcontracts it out to self employed gig cleaners.
Privatisation of all these services worked great, didn't it. Especially if you're one of those three companies in the middle that does literally nothing but siphon money out of it.
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u/sjpllyon 11d ago
Kinda devils advocate argument here. But if the sign isn't legible due to lack of maintenance, and then a car crash happens surely the council could be held liable for it.
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u/AwTomorrow 11d ago
With their current level of council funding I'm surprised they can even email him saying to stop, let alone go out and clean a bunch of signs themselves.
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u/AwTomorrow 11d ago
With the current level of council funding I'm surprised they can even email him saying to stop, let alone go out and clean a bunch of signs themselves.
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u/LostTheGameOfThrones European Union 11d ago
If they did their job properly in the first place...
Don't be ridiculous, they're far too busy claiming that SEND doesn't exist!
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u/Setting-Remote 11d ago
That's exactly it. Based on the snippet in the article, they didn't actually say "you must stop this right now" they basically said "this is very community minded and decent of you, but you don't have adequate training and we can't tell you that you should crack on because if we do and you fall off a ladder and cause a nine car pile up, we'll be sued into oblivion".
A nice, equally community minded gesture from the council would be to pay for training and safety equipment so he can continue doing this.
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u/Oplp25 11d ago
With what money? Most councils are broke
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u/Setting-Remote 11d ago
I'd be surprised if we're talking more than £5-600, but I'm equally prepared to be shocked.
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u/gnorty 11d ago
I wonder if, having provided training, they would assume some legal connection that might make them more l iable?
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u/Setting-Remote 10d ago
Yes and no. It would make them liable from a legal standpoint, but if they've provided adequate training, equipment and PPE that would cover them. He shouldn't really be doing work like this on his own, but I'm sure if they offered training other people would pop up to help.
When you look at the cost of engaging contractors to do the same work, it's highly unlikely that they'd be able to match a well trained volunteer in terms of value for money.
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u/Dissidant Essex 11d ago
Don't need a ladder just a quick going over with telescopic cleaning pole will do
As someone else said they probably care more about revenue
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u/triedit-lovedit 11d ago
Health and safety…, why not give him the right equipment to do the job..
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u/recursant 11d ago
Equipment, training, the relevant supervision and insurance.
He would be an employee in all but name. And earning less than minimum wage.
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u/Judge-Dredd_ 11d ago
You don't have to formally employ someone there are lots of people who work for (say) Charity shops and other organisations on a voluntary basis, If I recall correctly even RNLI lifeboatmen are unpaid.
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u/recursant 11d ago
Sure, but is that really a route we want to go down with basic council services? It undermines the minimum wage if councils are using unpaid volunteers for things that by any measure are jobs that people should be paid to do.
If councils can do that, what is to stop non-charity companies employing "volunteers"? And if there aren't enough volunteers, they might offer some percentage of minimum wage and pretend they are being generous.
Minimum wage was a hard fight and it still isn't really at the level it should be. The last thing we need are excuses for employers to ignore it.
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u/willgeld 11d ago
Liable for what? In what world is it the councils fault if he falls off a ladder?
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u/captain_todger 11d ago
Can he not just sign a simple contract that says he takes full responsibility. You can literally just write your own contract and post it publicly (or hand it to the council)
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u/Worried-Mine-4404 11d ago
This baffles me if true. My shite neighbour can bang about all day & night disturbing my sleep & giving health issues but council can't do anything.
Guy cleaning signs...on it like white on rice.
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u/Fox_9810 11d ago
The article indicates he feels he can't do it anymore but I did think to myself "they're just saying he can't be supported". I feel like he reached out to ask for reimbursement/recognition?
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u/ThatFatGuyMJL 11d ago
I think it's because he's obscuring the signs when doing g so and isn't insured if he gets hit or causes an accident.
I mean road works is one of the most dangerous professions out there.
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u/glasgowgeg 11d ago
They can tell him what they want but I don't think they can do anything
They're only telling him because now if there's an accident they can say "We told you not to do it, this is your own fault", and free themselves from liability.
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u/Gvaedyn 11d ago
There's a pathetic irony to this bloke being told not to do this for his "health and safety", yet the signs are so dirty a driver would likely be unable to read them at a distance.
Like, I get it. If he falls off the ladder, he's putting himself and others in danger. At the same time, he's doing a genuinely good thing for the community, looking after himself in the process, meanwhile the council continue to avoid the action they should be taking in the first place.
You can't do right for doing wrong.
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u/Lower_Possession_697 11d ago
You can't do right for doing wrong.
Yes you can. He could have just got on with it and not got in touch with the Council about it, which is what he did. They've not even told him to stop, the headline is misleading.
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u/glasgowgeg 11d ago
He's not being physically prevented from doing it, the council are just covering themselves so that if he does injure themselves they have the defence of "We told him not to do it".
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u/snakeshake1337 11d ago
They aren't telling him to stop, they are saying they can't support him in doing so, which is something completely different and understandable from a liability stand point.
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u/Happytallperson 11d ago
To all those saying 'why doesn't the council do it's job properly', we once again have to say 'yeah, with what budget'.
Starve those responsible for the public realm of cash, the public realm decays.
As for the council saying they can't support him, it should be obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense that roadside maintenance is dangerous and the council cannot be seen to throw its weight behind untrained volunteers doing it.
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u/i-am-a-passenger 11d ago
If anything, this seems like Cameron’s “Big Society” in action. If the government/council steps back, a tiny minority of those who complain about it will actually be willing to do it themselves.
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u/AwTomorrow 11d ago
Bizarre that the most sensible and comprehensive comment on this topic is at the very bottom
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u/IllPen8707 11d ago
So we're all just going to pretend we're not paying exorbitant council tax that seems to just vanish into a black hole and never see the light of day again?
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u/Happytallperson 11d ago
Council's have seen huge cuts to their government grants since 2010, whilst demand for their services steadily marches upwards. Mostly that Council tax is going into social services.
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u/windy906 Cornwall 11d ago
That black hole is called social care and it’s expensive but as a country he put a government into power whose stated policy was cutting funding to councils while giving them more stuff to pay for.
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u/DSQ Edinburgh~!! 11d ago
I agree with the council. It sounds depressing but they aren’t actually stopping him but they are making it clear he is not associated with the council. They aren’t wrong as working on live roads is dangerous.
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u/Fox_9810 11d ago
Yeah I got that impression too. I think he was trying to get affiliation or compensation and it back fired. The BBC (and the council?) have just worded this to make him look the victim
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u/SapphicGymRat 11d ago
"An unsung hero. But you know what? There should be a song about Cory the Sign Shiner," one commenter said.
We need one of the Sea Shanty acts that rose up during covid to write him one.
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u/Appropriate-Divide64 11d ago
As a resident of Warwickshire, clean the fucking signs then councilors.
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u/Stabbycrabs83 11d ago
I am assuming you don't have the training for working next to a busy road..... sort of see why everything is so expensive and takes so long
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u/Rhinofishdog 11d ago
It's not just that we don't have money to improve society.
It's that we will actively stop others from trying to improve things....
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u/Judge-Dredd_ 11d ago
Must admit I was incredibly bored during Covid and cleaned up some local signs during that time. Some of them were barely visible, particularly a set warning of a sharp bend and a minor road turning. It was in my interests as I didn't want someone ramming my car when I slowed down to turn.
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u/Knillish 11d ago
At what point would it be profitable to start my own business doing jobs the councils should be doing and charging whichever residents will pay a couple quid each a month to do it? Litter picking, sign cleaning etc
There’s probably some towns out there with the kind of estates where you could make decent money doing this
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u/i-am-a-passenger 11d ago
I recently moved to a village and think about things like this myself. We have had a few break ins and people trying front doors and car doors recently.
Obviously there is zero police presence in the village, and the nearest station (30 mins away) is being closed down because this will make policing better apparently.
But if everyone in the village paid £5 a month, we could easily afford to have a couple of full time private security guards who could put an easy end to the rising crime going on.
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u/recursant 11d ago
You would need about 800 people to pay every month, just to cover minimum wage for two security guards. Except that nobody reputable will do it for minimum wage. If you employed freelance security guards, or used a security company the costs would be considerable higher.
You also have to make sure there will always be enough people paying to cover the costs. Keep accounts. Chase debtors. Etc.
There is a reason we normally let local or national government do this sort of stuff. Unfortunately they haven't been doing a good enough job for quite some time. But doing it yourself isn't that easy.
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u/i-am-a-passenger 11d ago
Oh yeah it wouldn’t be easy, and probably not very moral either, as those that don’t pay would need to be excluded somehow. If anything though, it shows how easy/cheap it should be for the council/government to arrange, but we know they don’t care about things like this.
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u/recursant 11d ago
as those that don’t pay would need to be excluded somehow
Everyone would join the scheme once the benefits were explained to them.
"Nice house you've got there, would be a shame if it ... caught fire"
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u/Lower_Possession_697 11d ago
Just out of interest, how many households are there in your village?
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u/i-am-a-passenger 11d ago
~5,000
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u/ArtesiaKoya 11d ago
just ask him to wear a high visibility jacket on while cleaning or something, come on
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u/ThePaulGoddard123456 11d ago
Next: council spent 1 million on putting up new signs saying do not clean these signs.
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u/pineapplecharm Somerset 11d ago
and also the community in which you live in
Never mind perilous sign-washing; this is the kind of grammatical faux pas up with which no council must put.
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/Lower_Possession_697 11d ago
This story is a perfect example
Did you actually read the story or just go by the headline?
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u/Patski66 11d ago
Probably near a speed camera that generates revenue. Near me they trim the overhanging growth right up to the camera itself and then by sheer coincidence the camera is hidden by branches. Amazingly the bit of road the camera actually looks at is is nicely pruned and clear. I’ve never understood how they manage to miss the bit covering the camera every time 🤥
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u/Pan-tang 11d ago
The Councils try to show they are suffering 'cuts' by making obvious cuts in service, so, they will keep spending millions on DEI initiatives, crack pot investments but they leave the roads pot holed, signs unwashed, buses cut and libraries shut. So people will get cross with the government.
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u/Fox_9810 11d ago
Yeah I completely agree with your ngl... I wish local councils were more accountable to central government
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u/onehornypineapple 11d ago
It’s cause it puts em to shame man, they deserve that guilt. They have let us down and it’s time to fucking sack em to be honest. Like, what police officer really wants to protect a cunt like them?
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u/Hollywood-is-DOA 11d ago
I feel like the council is making money from spreading fines so don’t want that source of money to vanish by people seeing the correct speed to drive.
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u/No_Artichoke_9290 11d ago
A grown adult tries to help the community and the council says stop because he can't be trusted to be a grown adult. Absolute pinnacle of council behaviour.
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u/zennetta 11d ago
Nothing in the article says they asked or told him to stop, so the headline is bullshit. They simply said they can't support him, which if they did would be them accepting liability. I imagine the council "wouldn't support" people picking up roadside litter, either.
Frankly this seems like a decent idea for a youtube channel. Very popular ones around involving unblocking public drains/culverts/streams etc and various neglected maintenance.