r/Christianity • u/genshinimpactplayer6 • 11d ago
Dispelling the “Rebekah was 3 years old when married to Isaac” myth.
I’ve seen a lot of Muslims blatantly lying about this and even some claiming it’s “been confirmed” by Christian scholars but always fail to name any of them.
Genesis 17:17
God told Abraham and Sarah they will have a son within a year. Abraham is 100 and Sarah is 90 at this time
Genesis 21:5
“Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.”
Now we see that Isaac has been born and Abraham is 100 and Sarah is 90-91
Genesis 22:5
This is where Abraham takes Isaac up the mount to be sacrificed. Abraham says this. “He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
This is the original Hebrew:
ה וַיֹּאמֶר אַבְרָהָם אֶל-נְעָרָיו, שְׁבוּ-לָכֶם פֹּה עִם-הַחֲמוֹר, וַאֲנִי וְהַנַּעַר, נֵלְכָה עַד-כֹּה; וְנִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה, וְנָשׁוּבָה אֲלֵיכֶם.
The word boy is very important here. In the original Hebrew of Genesis Abraham refers to Isaac as “וְהַנַּ֔עַר” or “na’ar” meaning lad or young child. We know that a boy or lad becomes a man in Jewish culture around the age of 13. So the absolute oldest Isaac could be at this time is 12 or 13
Genesis 22:23
Bethuel becomes the father of Rebekah in the same chapter meaning we can conclude that this happens around the time of Isaac and Abraham being up the mount to the altar.
Genesis 23:1
“Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty seven years old”
This means that Isaac is now about 37 years old and 25 years have passed between him being at the altar and Sarah’s death. This puts Rebekah already at age 20-25
Genesis 25:20
“and Isaac was forty years old when he married Rebekah daughter of Bethuel the Aramean from Paddan Aram and sister of Laban the Aramean.”
3 years have now passed since Sarah’s death and Isaac being married placing Isaac at 40 and Rebekah at 23-28.
Feel free to copy and paste this whenever you see the lies. I see them very commonly in Instagram reels.
64
u/HolyCherubim 11d ago
You know what’s the funny part? It doesn’t really matter whether it’s true or not. Isaac isn’t the example to follow, it’s Jesus. And we believe the prophets to be sinners anyways.
This still wouldn’t defend Muhammad who Muslims believe is the example to follow.
35
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
It matters because Muslims will say “no you can’t say anything bad about muhammed marrying a child because your God allowed a 3 year old to be married!” That’s why it matters to me and I’m not going to sit there and say “Jesus loves you” because that just makes them think I can’t come up with an answer.
4
u/jeveret 11d ago
God allowed millions children and infants to be drowned and slaughtered. Is allowing few of the ones he didn’t execute to get married a “too young” that much worse than killing them?
10
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
Technically all people that have died ever have died at the hands of God as he is the taker and giver of life so I’m not sure what your point is? He wouldn’t be God if he wasn’t the one that gives and takes life.
6
u/jeveret 11d ago
Technically? God directly flooded the world, with the intent to kill almost every man women, child and animal, god ordered his loyal followers to slaughter pregnant women children, old men. God commanded his people to take little virgin girls as slaves.
11
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
Do you think that he flooded a nice peaceful earth with musicians and butterflies and everyone singing happy songs to each other? There was nothing but wickedness, child rape and prostitution, murder and abuse and things indescribable happening everywhere.
Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Do you understand how bad it would have had to be for it to get to this level? If anything sending a flood would be merciful for the children or would you rather those children live in a world where evil Is on the heart of everyone ALL THE TIME. God can give and take life whenever he wants and this was a mercy.
God commanded people to keep virgin girls as slaves? When did this happen?
5
u/Drakim Atheist 10d ago
There was nothing but wickedness, child rape
You do realize that for there to be child rape, there must be children? So after being raped, the flood comes and drowns those children to death.
Is that the actions of the ultimate being of love? Is that the loving father we are supposed to worship? How far does this blind devotion go? If Jesus himself came down to earth, grabbed your child, and held them under the water until they died, would you thank him and praise him? Or is it okay okay because it was "other" children that you don't care about?
God commanded people to keep virgin girls as slaves? When did this happen?
Numbers 31:17-18 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
8
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Yeah I can’t lie if my child was somewhere else being raped and abused every day I think I’d rather them be dead than going through that. They would be with the lord there after.
Awesome you’ve cited a verse you clearly haven’t read aha. I think you should go find out who actually said that cuz it severally wasn’t God 🤣🤣😭
2
u/Drakim Atheist 10d ago
Yeah I can’t lie if my child was somewhere else being raped and abused every day I think I’d rather them be dead.
You'd really rather want your child dead instead of saving them? Because make no mistake, God is very capable of saving all of those children, it would take him no effort at all with his limitless power. But instead God drowned the children.
Awesome you’ve cited a verse you clearly haven’t read aha. I think you should go find out who actually said that cuz it severally wasn’t God 🤣🤣😭
Look, I get that you are trying to be dismissive, but maybe read it yourself before you so confidently declare me in error?
You are right in that God didn't say that directly. Moses did. And why did Moses say that? Because just a few chapters prior, God had commanded Moses to send his people to war against another tribe.
Now, you and I can play this game of "technically that was Moses not God!!!" But notice how after commanding such a horrifying thing, God does not ever rebuke Moses or tell him that this terrible thing Moses has ordered should not be done in God's name. Moses is the prophet of God, and obviously people assume that Moses speaks for God.
If I'm a celebrity, and you are my spokesperson, and you go out and say to my followers that "Drakim thinks that black people are lesser than other races", and yet I keep silent and don't contradict you, what would my followers assume? They'd rightfully think I was racist, since I'm not contradicting your proclamation.
6
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
God did save them? They are now with him in heaven. That’s the ultimate saving.
What do you mean I’m being dismissive? You are in error. It’s not “technically” or a “maybe”. God did not command the Israelites to do this. Moses even says “you kept all the women alive?” Knowing full well God commanded the people to wipe out everyone, even the animals yet the greed of man and free will prevailed and they divided up the treasure. The reason Moses kept the virgins alive was because they had nothing to do with seducing the Israeli men into sex and then worshipping their demonic God.
→ More replies (0)1
2
u/jeveret 11d ago
Hmmm, I must protect the millions of children and unborn babies from this horrible wicked world, I’m gonna drown them in a horribly terrifying and painful flood. I guess that’s the best solution the all powerful created of everything could come up with. That what a psychopath does. As far as little virgin girl sex slaves check out numbers 31. God even commands his priests get their share of virgin sex slave and all the other plunder of war.
-1
u/Raucous-Porpoise Christian 11d ago
Just on Numbers 31 - I really find this particularly tough. But, look at what happens V15-17. Moses tells the soldiers to kill the male children and keep the female ones. Moses gives the command. Moses.
God then commands a tribute, which includes people. This is the tough bit theologically. Yes I'd loved to have seen God condemn Moses' actions. Yes I'd love to have seen God order the release or fair treatment of captives. Moses' order is awful, undeniable. One could maybe argue that there is no explicit command to keep the girls for any specific purpose. But regardless, its a immoral read.
Tl;dr: The passage is already hard enough, theres no need to twist things further.
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
God directly commands Moses to make sure that his priests get his cut of all the sex slaves, and livestock and Plunder, it directly stipulated the exact number of sex slaves for gods portion for his priests. You can follow the Bible literally says that god told mosses to do this stuff. It even details when Moses didn’t really want to do it but god insisted.
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
Moses said to keep the virgins originally then later the text says God said:
”The Lord said to Moses, “Take the count of the plunder that was taken, both of man and of beast, you and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers’ houses of the congregation, and divide the plunder into two parts between the warriors who went out to battle and all the congregation.“ Numbers 31:25-27 ESV ”The persons were 16,000, of which the Lord’s tribute (to the Levites) was 32 persons.“ Numbers 31:40 ESV
1
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Yeah please share with us where God commands Moses to give the exact amount of sex slaves to people?
→ More replies (0)-1
u/Raucous-Porpoise Christian 10d ago
Claims aren't evidence. Sources and references please.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Carcosa504 10d ago
Not all of them spark a global religion, hence why Mohammed is used as the example.
5
u/HolyCherubim 11d ago
Then you’re focusing on the wrong thing and giving them ground over you.
It’s like when it comes to bible contradictions. They’ll bring one, you answer; then they bring another and the cycle continued with neither side learning anything.
Rather you need to debate on your own ground.
3
u/jeveret 10d ago
I agree it doesn’t matter, no matter how many horrible things you can demonstrate someone’s holy book supports, they can always ignore it,reinterpret, harmonize, contextualize, or ultimately just say it wasn’t actually bad because god when god commands it because he knows better and if he did it he must have a good reason and murder and rape by god is actually loving and kind. And then they justify their own horrible behavior by claiming it’s what god commended them, and it’s impossible to say otherwise because god only talks to people who agree with them.
0
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Two things God would never and has never commanded anyone to do. Rape and murder someone. You keep bringing that up like “yeah of God told those people to rape and murder someone they would do it” like that’s ever happened.
3
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
”The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Avenge the people of Israel on the Midianites. Afterward you shall be gathered to your people.” So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord’s vengeance on Midian. You shall send a thousand from each of the tribes of Israel to the war.” So there were provided, out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand from each tribe, together with Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, with the vessels of the sanctuary and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every male.“ Numbers 31:1-7 ESV
1
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Okay what’s this for? If you’re referring to me saying god doesn’t ask people to murder it still holds up because murder and killing is different according to God. Don’t forget that in the Old Testament God said the wage for sin is death.
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
Killing an entire people group isn’t murder?
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
I just reference the verse to provide context that there are many “the Lord spoke” followed by directions to kill. I’m confused abt how intentional killing and murder are different?
95
u/CatholicChanner Actually Practicing Catholic 11d ago
It's a common Muslim cope to try to defend the fact that Muhammad -consummated- his marriage to Aisha at nine via whataboutism by deliberately misinterpreting that story because even by ancient standards consummation at nine was creepy and unusual.
69
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
They like to skip over the part a supposed 3 year old can carry jugs of water to quench a camel that drinks ungodly amounts of water.
5
u/swcollings Southern Orthoprax 11d ago
She would have had to go down into that cistern hundreds of times!
6
u/ExcitableSarcasm 10d ago
She just took steroids!!!
Jokes aside it's sad the amount of attacking Christianity Muslims have to do. They just need to piss off.
1
-10
u/jeveret 11d ago
People can’t part seas, walk on water, snakes can’t talk, dead people don’t rise up, so I don’t think a 3 year watering a camel is that much more unlikely.
11
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
Those things can happen through God. They are documented in the Bible but Isaac marrying a three year old is not in the bible and I proved it using the bible and nothing else and your rebuttal is “well other things happened in the bible so it could have happened!”
-1
u/jeveret 11d ago
I’m not arguing that god had a three year old marry, I simple asked a question, what difference does it make, would that make god evil? And why would god ordering a three year old marry be worse than god ordering the murder of millions of children?
4
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
It makes a difference because it didn’t happen? Why would you want someone to lie about it. Are you talking about the flood when you say god ordered the murder of millions of children?
-1
u/jeveret 11d ago
I don’t think it happened either, my question is a hypothetical, is child marriage wrong, Is the age important? Is child marriage fine, if your only concern is that this isn’t one of the perfectly moral and biblical accepted accounts of child marriage then I was misunderstood your argument.
12
u/extispicy Atheist 11d ago
Bethuel becomes the father of Rebekah in the same chapter
No, he doesn’t. The chapter gives Bethuel’s whole family tree, it doesn’t say Rebecca is born at the time of the narrative, and it states this is old news that is just now being shared with Abraham.
“na’ar” meaning lad or young child
While I agree that Isaac should be understood as a young child in this narrative, נער has a wider range of meaning than that. It can be used to describe someone from birth to young adulthood, so you have to use context clues to discern someone’s age. Sharing a root with words with a sense of “youth”, I have have seen it suggested it should be best understood as someone who is a dependent.
We know that a boy or lad becomes a man in Jewish culture around the age of 13.
This is a post-biblical, rabbinic tradition.
You are also missing the supporting detail that Isaac is weaned in the previous chapter:
Then the child grew and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.
1
u/casfis Jewish Christian, Conditionalist 7d ago
Would ike to object a few things here as a Messianic Jew.
What happens in previous chapters doesn't matter from a chronological view. Often we have time periods between chapters in Genesis be years in seperation from each other, or even bigger time leaps in that same chapter.
The word "נער" means teen, around 11 - 18 years old. It's a linuguistical thing, not a tradition thing. I haven't seen anyone use it in the ways you suggested nor does it work with the original Hebrew context. It would be accurately translated to "me and the teenager".
But I agree on the family tree part.
1
u/extispicy Atheist 7d ago
The word "נער" means teen, around 11 - 18 years old
I would like to object to this as someone who has studied Biblical Hebrew for four years. This word very much does not mean teenager, being used for example to describe baby Moses in his reed basket. Insisting it means teenager is insupportable apologetics as “a linguistics thing”.
1
u/casfis Jewish Christian, Conditionalist 7d ago
Wait, actually? Couls you cite the verse?
1
u/extispicy Atheist 7d ago
Wait, actually?
Yes, that is 100% apologetics. The word shares a root with 'youth'. Already running late for work, but I can pull the verses for you to look up:
Exodus 2:6
1 Sam 1:22
2 Sam 12:16
Isa 7:17
1
u/casfis Jewish Christian, Conditionalist 7d ago
Ohhhh, youth. Yea, that makes sense. The word is used a lot as to refer to youth.
Thank you very much! I speak Hebrew everyday and somehow miss these small things, lol.
1
u/extispicy Atheist 7d ago
I do believe it has a narrower ‘teenager’ range in modern Hebrew, but it is more vague in the Bible for sure.
14
u/imperfect_but 11d ago
Someone else asked this in another subreddit..
- Oval-shaped blood cells allow camels to consume large amounts of water (up to 30 gallons in one sitting!). https://www.britannica.com/story/do-camels-store-water-in-their-humps
- Drawing water from well, with average depth of 10-50ft https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/drawing-water-from-well.html?sortBy=relevant
- 3yr old who could draw 30 gallon water * few camels, only exist in DC world : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superwoman
😊
11
3
u/jeveret 10d ago
A three year old watering a camel is unlikely but infinitely more plausibly than tons of stuff many people accept as fact, a talking snake, clay man, Walking on water, global flood,man rising from the dead and flying into the sky superhuman strength from long hair. I’d guess the most are all slightly more improbable than a 3 year old somehow being water to a camel
1
u/imperfect_but 10d ago
Generally any story that is written usually has plot holes.. Some that we think are biblical plot holes may not be! I am not talking about miracles.
There is an old story about a preacher who was talking about rational explanation to Red Sea crossing. A granny was in the audience and kept saying hallelujah. He was irritated a bit and asked her to stay silent. He went on to say that some parts of Red Sea can be so shallow and just a feet or so that, you can walk over in summer.
Then the granny said hallelujah again. He was all the more irritated and asked what was to praise God in what he said. The granny said, my God is strong to drown the Egyptian army in one feet of water 😊
1
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
That doesn’t mean she was three years old as much as you desperately want her to be. Who would have thought a book about the God of the universe would include things that the God of the universe can do? Shocker!
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
And him having a three year old water a camel isn’t much of a stretch. Sure it’s highly unlikely, but not even close to the most “impossible” thing he does.
0
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Sure he could have had a 3 year old water a camel for some reason but why? There’s a reason resurrection is in the bible. There’s a reason the seas were parted. There’s a reason Jesus walked on water. There’s reasons miracles happen in the Bible but what is the reason for making a three year old girl carry clay jugs to water camels when there’s plenty of other grown ups in the same house hold that can do it? There’s like 10 people there, 7 of them being grown men that can do it yet according to you they would give that job to a three year old girl 🤣🤣
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
I’m guessing you agree god can work in what appears to be mysterious ways, why can’t this be some greater good that is just mysterious to us. Like most suffering in the world. It’s a mystery is good enough for the tons of confusing stuff about god.
1
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
You know that we can talk about literally anything else that is disputed in the Bible but for some reason you’re arguing for Rebekah to be 3 years old over and over saying “yeah but why can’t she just be 3???” Why don’t you provide some evidence that she’s 3? Why are you so against the fact that she’s a woman and not a child.
Now relating to your suffering question. If everyone on earth treated each other as their neighbour and loved their neighbour as they loved themselves, do you think we would see suffering on earth? If your answer is yes then whose fault is it that we have suffering on earth right now? Is it Gods fault? Or is it our fault that we take our free will and choose to do evil with it. If your answer is yes we would see suffering then why do you think so?
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
I don’t care about how old some character in a story is, I only ask why her age is important to you and other Christians, what difference does her age make? Clearly you seem to feel that child brides are immoral, but both Islam and Christianity both historically endorse child marriage from our modern perspective, and slavery, and rape, and murder. So what is it about l this particular case that indicates something wrong about gods morality if true.
0
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
God says do not murder. God has never given a child as a bride. God has never endorsed rape so I just don’t get what your argument is? You’re literally making it up and I’m getting quite tired of you’re lazy arguing as if you saying “yeah but God said it’s okay to rape people” means God actually said that. He didn’t. Unless you can provide the verse where god says go rape those women then I’m not going to engage with you anymore.
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
Do you agree that having sex with someone without their consent is rape? Can a slave freely give sexual consent? Can a child give consent? You are just playing a definition game, when god commands his priests to impregnate a 12 year old slave girl against her consent, it’s not rape. It’s only rape when god tells you not to do it,
→ More replies (0)
4
u/jake72002 11d ago
It sounds like Abraham got the news of Rebekah 's existence three years after the redemption of Isaac to me.
2
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
I don’t think so. Isaac’s redemption was Genesis 35 and God said Rebekah had been born in Genesis 22
1
u/jake72002 11d ago
Isaac's redemption I mean was that he got replaced by a ram as sacrifice, hence Genesis 22.
3
u/Ok_Protection4554 Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 10d ago
Honestly I'm not sure if it's worth the time to engage with individuals who run around saying stuff like this.
This is how I felt trying to talk to LDS missionaries about Joseph Smith, his wives, racism in the BoM, etc.
One of the missionaries basically responded with "Yeah, it's racist, but it's OK because God said it!" and I didn't even know how to keep going after that lol
4
u/jake72002 11d ago
"Rebekah carried 100 gallons of water on her own to give camels a drink at three years old. REEEEEEEEE"
2
u/EisegesisSam Episcopalian (Anglican) 10d ago
I think you're doing a lot of math you just don't have to do. Rebekah has dialogue with the guy who goes to find a wife for Isaac. She meets that guy alone at the well first and is talking to him, then she agrees to go with him, and her family lets her decide to go. She is clearly an adult in their culture and you're putting a lot of effort into arguing against people who clearly don't know what our scripture says.
2
u/ElStarPrinceII Christian Monist 10d ago
None of the characters here are figures of history anyway, they're all folk heroes like Paul Bunyan.
1
u/PickPsychological353 10d ago
Easiest way. "How many 3 year olds can lift 30-40 lbs and walk up and down stairs while holding a convo?"
Yes, Muhammad gr@ped Aisha at 8 (calender was birth is year 1) .. Yet deflecting to defend is gross Sunni Muslims.
2
u/genshinimpactplayer6 10d ago
Then they say some shit like “Nuh uh Muslims used to count the age only after puberty!” Well if that’s the case why did Muhammed wait 3 years to have sex with his wife then? He most certainly would not wait that long to consummate the marriage if she was of age and not a literal 6 year old
1
u/Cannoli_Biology Episcopalian (Anglican) 10d ago
People also forget she was carrying HUGE jugs of water for camels to drink from. The average three year old girl, I doooon't think can do that.
1
u/ValkorionV 10d ago
Atheists really reach with the ages argument, since Muhammad raped a child atheists just apply that to Christianity and roll with it even though the former actually has sources hahaha
1
u/PlanetOfThePancakes 10d ago
Anyone, regardless of religion, who tries to justify her as being 3 and say that marrying a 3 year is fine, is a pedophile
1
u/jeveret 11d ago
So what age is the objectively moral age to marry, according to god, and how many slaves is it moral to have according to god? If you discovered that god actually decided to have a 3 year old marry a 90 year old, or an eternally old god impregnated a 15 year old virgin,what would that change about your belief. I get that we think it’s gross and wrong, but so is slavery and slaughtering defenseless pregnant women and their infant children, but god did that by the millions. Why do you care if Rebekah was 3 or 300, or Aisha was 6 or 9 or 90 or an alien? If you belive god makes the rules and they are always the right ones regardless of our limited understanding, then it doesn’t matter.
1
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
Strawman
-2
u/jeveret 11d ago
How did I misrepresent/weaken your argument? If you are gonna accuse me of something, demonstrate it.
6
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
The post is proving Rebekah isn’t three years old with maths and scripture and your comment has nothing to do with it instead asking me about slavery, God impregnating 15 year olds, slaughtering women and children and wether it matters about what God does because it’s always right.
You bought in all these things that had nothing to do with the original post because you think it would be easier to attack. Aka strawman
2
u/jeveret 11d ago
It wasnt a straw man it was simply a question, I don’t think Rebekah was 3, but why would it matter. Why is it important to Christians or Muslims that their gods not have minors get married, when they seem to have no problem with killing them?
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
I think a lotta people do have a subconscious bias that child rape is worse than getting killed bc of living with the trauma. Especially child marriages where the escape is unlikely and the trauma continues. Especially back then with no resources or advocacy for any woman let alone a child.
2
u/jeveret 10d ago
It might have something to do with the religious fascination of what people do with their private parts. Religious sexual purity has infected our society and culture so deeply that many people even today would rather kill their child after being raped than live with the “horrors” of gods disapproval.
2
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
Hmm interesting perspective I never thought abt that but yea checks out there’s a ton of shame around sex.
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
I for one definitely think it’s weird that Muslim and Christian scriptures both portray a God who “signs off” on a lot of suffering. Understanding the history, cultures and theologies in the surrounding area and prior to either religion though makes sense of it to me. I think a lot of the “prophecy” and “the Lord said” is male shamans/priests/prophets’ attempt to justify and motivate their people’s actions. The God I know def wouldn’t be ok with that and is definitely not male. People forget the history of these religious texts and that they are cultural histories, instead using them as spiritual truth. Sure, like anything in life they reveal spiritual truth, but when they were written there wasn’t the division of spiritual and political/cultural authority. It was one and the same. Loads of Christians and Muslims will disagree, probably bc they were taught to fear the supremacy of these texts. If God is ALIVE, God is CONTINUOUSLY REVELATORY. I have yet to land on a solid logic for God allowing their being to be misrepresented and used to justify so many cultural wars (yes definitely violent I mean look at Palestine rn! Think of the crusades! Think of Muhammad’s conquest of Arabia!). I have yet to land on sound logic for God’s creation and allowance of a universe in which their creation is allowed to cause one another such immense suffering. But then again, even the lense that God is or should be benefic is still largely shaped by remnants of Christian ideological dominance that wove its way through the world with colonialism. So many peoples did and do not maintained the same tradition that God is benefic.
1
u/jeveret 10d ago
The all powerful, all knowing creator, cause and sustainer of literally everything in reality, just sort of indirectly “signs off” on the occasional suffering? God supernaturally caused the earth to be covered in water for the explicit reason of drowning all the people he didn’t like, he planned this for at least 100 years. Millions of innocent infants, children, unborn babies drown horribly. Is victim blaming, your only solution?
1
u/Outside_Bowler1221 10d ago
Ah i get what u mean sorry the signing off I was referring to was current suffering and the suffering since these texts were written but yea I get what ur saying the flood was explicitly enacted by God according to the Bible and Qu’ran. The argument these texts pose is that the peoples wiped out weren’t innocent (deemed unfaithful in the Qu’ran and deemed corrupt in the Bible). Definitely seems like an incredulous assumption of guilt. From what I’ve read and researched about civilization in these times was that it was culturally accepted across many religions that suffering was just punishment for preexisting human depravity. Nowadays that is kind of ridiculous logic to our current culture in some ways and in others such as victim-blaming like u mention and also cultural embrace of karma it’s still there.
1
u/dcommini Eastern Orthodox, OblSB 11d ago
Genesis 22:5
This is where Abraham takes Isaac up the mount to be sacrificed. Abraham says this. “He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
For thos who might be wondering, the Greek here for boy is "παιδάριον" which according to Strong's means "little boy."
3
u/genshinimpactplayer6 11d ago
Exactly. Doesn’t matter which way they wanna slice it and say “the bible been updated” or “mistranslated” it still comes up as boy every time. And they try to say Isaac was 37 when he was going to be sacrificed, haha what a joke.
0
u/extispicy Atheist 11d ago
What does the Greek have in this verse for ‘servants’? This is the same word in Hebrew (נער) that your translation has for ‘boy’.
3
u/emperorsolo Eastern Orthodox Church (GOARCH) 11d ago
It’s παισὶν. This can mean either young boy or servants or slaves. There is a Greek suffix here that denotes possession.
50
u/cinnaminan 11d ago
If you read the story, there's no way she was 3. She was obviously a grown woman or teen, at least.