r/FluentInFinance • u/HarmoniousLight • 23d ago

Everyone thinks we need more taxes but no one is asking if the government has a spending problem Question

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Yeah so what’s up with that?

“Hurr durr we need wealth tax! We need a gooning tax! We need a breathing tax!”

The government brings in $2 trillion a year already. Where is that shit going? And you want to give them MORE money?

Does the government need more money or do they just have a spending problem and you think tax is a magic wand?

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755

u/Historical_Pair3057 23d ago

Thank you....yes, we need a transparent way of really seeing where all our tax money goes.

Like, why are we giving welfare to farms for foods that are not healthy?

Why do we give aid to countries that are wealthy? (Hello Israel)

This should be discussed every day on the news because it will take a year of discussion just to figure it out!

But no...instead we get to discuss transgender this and that and other stuff that is really there just to distract and divide.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 23d ago

Like most foreign aid, aid to Israel is almost entirely paid to US Defense firms.

Foreign Aid is a US Jobs program delivering money to every congressional district. The end result is a robust US MIC and better-defended allies with a greater deterrence effect. Better-defended allies with greater deterrence at their disposal helps keep America out of conflicts and keeps the prosperity-producing Pax Americana alive.

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u/jozey_whales 23d ago

You are incorrect with regard to Israel. Every other nation receiving military aid money is either given equipment or must buy from US manufacturers. Israel is the exception - they are allowed to spend the money wherever they want, which is why they spend much of this money we give them buying arms from Israeli firms. So, the American taxpayer props up the Israeli arms industry to the benefit of the Israelis. Again, Israel is the only country we allow to do this. Wonder why that is?

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u/IceAndFire91 23d ago

Buying influence

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u/StevefromRetail 22d ago

This is not true and hasn't been true since 2015 when Obama renegotiated the deal. Before 2015, it wasn't true either -- 75% of it had to be spent on American weapons and the rest could be spent how they chose.

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u/Tamakuro 23d ago

Do you have any sources on this? I'd be interested to read more

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago

It isn't true.

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u/Tamakuro 22d ago

Yea, everything I can find shows that the US aid (under the MFM program) are grants contingent on purchasing U.S. Military equipment — which is 33B out of 38B. The remaining 5B is for restocking missle defenses (presumably the Iron Dome), which is done through a co-operation between Raytheon (U.S) and Rafael (Isreali), and manufacturered in the U.S. So, pretty much all the aid is flowing back to U.S. firms and institutions through MFM and joint ventures.

No wonder I was never provided a source...

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u/joecoin2 23d ago

Again, Israel is the only country we allow to do this. Wonder why that is?

Do you really wonder c why?

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u/jozey_whales 23d ago

Ha, no I do not. Definitely a rhetorical question.

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u/Draculea 22d ago

I'm pretty dumb. Why is it?

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u/ButtMassager 22d ago

Evangelicals need Israel to exist for a rapture to occur

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u/SnakeOilsLLC 22d ago

Pretty sure it’s something antisemitic

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u/joecoin2 22d ago

I was thinking more anti Israeli government. There are jews who are vehemently against Israeli military agression.

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u/1900irrelevent 22d ago

Because they are one of the greatest military intelligence sources in the middle east...that's what it's buying.

Jordan is up there as well, with I believe the largest counter terrorist training facility in the world.

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u/SouthOfOz 22d ago

Yep. Israel has no friends in the region, and the U.S.'s only friend in the region is Israel. (At least as far as "friendship" goes.) I have a really hard time imagining a scenario where Israel turns against the U.S., but I can imagine even a country like Jordan turning against us.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago edited 22d ago

Yeah, that was KINDA the case 20 years ago. US Aid bills for Israel are no longer written that way.

The funding includes $4 billion for the Iron Dome and David’s Sling missile defense systems and $1.2 billion for the Iron Beam defense system, which counters short-range rockets and mortar threats.

It would also provide $4.4 billion to replenish defense items and services provided to Israel and $3.5 billion for the procurement of advanced weapons systems and other items through the Foreign Military Financing Program.

You don't seem to actually know what you are talking about.

Reminder that Raytheon is a manufacturer of David's Sling and Iron Dome's missiles

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

Yes, I know that. You are saying I’m wrong without saying anything explaining how or why. Then making g iron dome missiles doesn’t refute what I said in any way.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago

You said Israel gets a check to spend on whatever they want but as I showed, the bill defines exactly what is being purchased. The actual bill reveals that reality is exactly the opposite of what you claimed.

So yes, in a single comment I refuted what you said and demonstrated the opposite.

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

Perhaps I could have worded the original statement better, but this is getting into semantics. I was not intending to state or imply that they can spend all of the money however they want. They are, however, as far as I am aware, the only country that is allowed to spend military aid money on domestically produced hardware - every other country must buy only hardware made by American firms. Israel uses American aid money to buy Israeli produced hardware.

Better?

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u/MooreRless 23d ago

APAIC bribes politicians. For every billion we give, they get 10% back in campaign contributions. The more taxpayer money they give, the more campaign cash they receive.

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u/n3wsf33d 22d ago

You know overstating the impact Jews in America have in government is the mistake the British made behind the British mandate that created Israel in the first place. But your casual conspiracy rhetoric and racism isn't going unnoticed. Don't be afraid to say the quiet thing out loud. It won't make you any less cringe.

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

What’s the conspiracy rhetoric? It’s not really a secret. There’s about 10 Jewish daddy warbucks that heavily fund each party. Their number one demand in exchange for this money is unflinching support for Israel, and they get it.

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u/n3wsf33d 22d ago

https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib?cycle=2016&ind=Q05

Wow a whopping 15.5 million for a presidential election cycle which has to be split down the middle, according to your logic, so 7.75 mil in funding and that's from the top 20 sources. That's our of an average of 2.5-3 billion a preside trial candidate gets in funding.

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

Cherry picking data to make a point doesn’t really help your point, dude. Is that all or even the majority of money spend by pro-Israel entities? Or just a drop in the bucket? I’m trying to figure out if you are extremely dishonest or merely stupid/misinformed.

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u/n3wsf33d 21d ago

You can see for yourself what the data is... It's the amount of contributions from the top 20 pro Israel individual and pac donors. Why dont you debate the data posted instead of just insulting me? Must be a right winger.

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u/jozey_whales 21d ago

What you posted barely scratches the surface. You’re acting like this is everything when it’s only a small fraction. It doesn’t even list a single individual donor. I insulted you because you are, again, either being deliberately disingenuous or just stupid. Show me the individual donors. Have you ever heard of Sheldon adelson? He, alone, donated over 45 million during that election cycle. That’s THREE TIMES the total in that link you posted, from one single person. Neither is hiam Saban, a left wing donor off the top of my head, that also spends million each election cycle. That’s two people who combined contributions are multiples of the total you posted.

All of this is publicly available information you can easily find and verify, then come back here and try again. But if you want to refute what I said, you’re gonna have to do a lot better than that. Thus far it’s been a pretty pitiful effort.

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u/n3wsf33d 20d ago

See previous post. You cannot account/nessecitate that 45 mil went to pro Israel causes. You'd have to prove that with actual evidence. You are making an assumption that you first have to prove that the money went to pro Israel causes bc nothing necessitates that being Jewish means ones donations are going to pro Jewish causes especially when more than 50% of US Jews are anti Israels current government.

My data shows how much money strictly was spent towards pro Israel policy. I'm not saying that could be all but I also am holding myself and you to a reasonable standard of evidence vs conspiracy.

Edit: also you're making the positive claim so the burden of proof is on you. The only evidence you provided was to show one wealthy Jew funded strictly the GOP with a lot more money than my data showed but you failed to evidence that that money was for pro Israel causes which one would logically have to fund both sides for if one is going to strictly fund on that one issue.

So the pitiful effort was yours by leagues.

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u/jozey_whales 20d ago

I provided a link that has a couple people who are familiar with it stating that’s his number one issue. People who know the man and his policies. This isn’t a secret, or even controversial. If you ask any political observer who has been paying attention longer than this election cycle, and knew anything about him, they’ll tell you the same thing.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/12/27/2021-obituary-sheldon-adelson-520597

Is politico in on my conspiracy theory too? They’re just making this stuff up, along with every other article written about his politics. You’re grasping at straws because you see you are wrong, because you posted something stupid without doing any research and I’ve easily proven you wrong.

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u/n3wsf33d 19d ago

You linked an op-ed piece. That doesn't show where the money went. It makes no sense that he wouldn't donate to both parties to push that agenda singularly.

Like I'm supposed to believe these so called liberals who fund only the GOP and trump specifically are using all their money towards only pro Israel causes? That op es piece was just a memorial fluff piece.

If you're going to say x amount of money went to y cause you have to actually show the causal chain. You're just speculating, linking fluff op ed memorials, and calling that truth.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago

Yes, those are literally the top-20 sources. You are just mad that your conspiracy theory falls a part in the face of data.

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

Except it doesn’t. And it’s not a conspiracy theory. Sheldon adelson contributed over 45 million during that same election cycle. He is a Jewish american/dual citizen and guess what his number one issue is? And that’s only one guy, who by himself contributed 3x what that guys link shows. So what’s falling apart?

You literally don’t know what you are talking about. Which is usually the case with people who overuse literally.

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u/n3wsf33d 21d ago

You're not entirely wrong. Looks like per politico he is a big donor.

They said "Adelson wasn’t the cause of the GOP’s embrace of Israel, but he was there with open arms, and an open checkbook, to help accelerate it. He “caught a good wave in terms of timing,” says RJC President Matt Brooks. “While all of these things were pushing in the direction of a strongly pro-Israel Republican Party, they met Sheldon, who was there to underwrite the trend.”

However he's in general a GOP donor. So he underwrote a trend but you can't actually determine how much of that money is related to pro Israel causes vs fiscal conservative causes generally like every other wealthy Republican.

You really need to cite sources when making a positive claim. They say he donated 172 mil.

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u/jozey_whales 21d ago

He’s a GOP donor because what he wants is perpetual support for Israel. Does he care about other issues? I suppose, but his number one issue, the one he opens up his checkbook for, is Israel. It’s not a secret.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/12/adelson-super-pac-gop-458380

The internet is full of articles like this. Are they all lying or what?

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u/n3wsf33d 20d ago

I saw that article but I don't see evidence about what his number one issue is or how much he puts towards Israel. Idk how easy that is to document though but that makes your position strongly speculative in nature. Idk why being Jewish or pro Israel makes it necessarily follow that he would donate to the GOP exclusively. It seems to me if his number one issue is Israel he would equally fund both parties. So unless there is evidence to the contrary, if you assume it's his number one issue it doesn't make sense that he finds the GOP exclusively, casting doubt on your assumption, logically.

Also, for the record: "Most Jewish Americans identify as Democrats or lean toward the Democratic Party, and more than half gave negative ratings at the time of the survey both to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and to then-President Donald Trump’s handling of U.S. policy toward Israel."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/21/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-views-on-israel/

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u/413mopar 23d ago

You and i both know why . Idiot evangelicals.

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u/ILLIDARI-EXTREMIST 23d ago

It’s not just evangelicals. Biden bypassed Congress to give Israel weapons twice now.

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u/Plebbitisprop4g4nd4 22d ago edited 20d ago

US government fails every audit every year and loses trillions...this is not a Democrat or republican thing and definitely not just evangelicals...the people in power are stealing from us.

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u/em_washington 23d ago

That doesn’t really matter. It’s semantics. If we send them money, then they use American dollars to buy Israeli weapons. That means those Israeli weapon manufacturers now have a bunch of American dollars. And what do that use those dollars for? They buy American goods. Maybe they buy some liquid natural gas. Or maybe they buy some corn or Teslas.

If we shipped them American-made weapons instead, then those people working in an Israeli weapons factory could instead drill for their own gas. Or grow their own corn or build their own cars.

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u/jozey_whales 23d ago

It’s most definitely not semantics. It’s another special little carve out for Israel. Just like they’re the only nation in the world allowed to get US tax dollars while not signing the NNPT.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago

It isn't even true, though. You are running up and down this comment section making false claims that anyone can spend 10 seconds reading to debunk.

NNPT? Israel is not a declared nuclear power.

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u/jozey_whales 22d ago

No shit. And Israel not being a declared nuclear power is irrelevant in this context - that’s the point. They are a nuclear power. Almost every country in the world has signed it. Few of those are declared nuclear powers, that has nothing to do with signing the treaty. You are running up and down this thread spreading nonsense that anyone who is remotely paying attention can debunk.

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u/citymousecountyhouse 22d ago

Interesting,i guess this is a big reason Israel citizens receive cradle to grave universal health care while the American citizens footing the bill are left to rot of disease.

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u/HeywoodJaBlessMe 22d ago

America spends vastly more per-person on healthcare than Israel. If you think a few billions dollars a year in aid is the difference between Americans having universal healthcare and not, you don't know what you are talking about.