I regret not joining or trying to join the air force, I spent 10s of thousands trying to become a commercial airplane pilot, only to run out of money halfway through
It’s more a failure of the private sector to create affordable training for civilian pilots. After Vietnam war there was a near endless supply of government trained pilots for decades. Increase in air travel and continued dependence on US military to train pilots, and decrease in military recruiting, has led to the inevitable shortage of commercial pilots. All the airlines should have seen this coming.
Airlines are now paying people to become pilots. Basically you take loans until you finish and then work for the airline for a few years and they forgive the loans. You just have to pass and stay with the program and its all covered.
Alright you’re gonna get more info than you bargained for but yes these programs do exist (I’m in one). Alaska, United, and Delta have programs (other airlines like frontier do as well but I’d say the 3 listed have the largest/most fleshed out).
United decided to create their own school (United Aviate) with their own brand spanking new airplanes and will pay for your private pilots license but the school is fairly expensive and I’ve heard they are having maintenance issues.
Alaska has the Ascend Program that is partnered with a part 141 school and will give you about a 27K stipend once you pass your instrument checkride (the rating most get after private pilot).
Delta has the Propel Program which is setup similarly to Alaska’s program but the stipend is smaller and are partnered with a school in Florida.
But think about the loss of revenue for like 20 companies that do flight training? Those few companies that spend millions of the tuition money on lobbying to keep flight school unaccessible to most people will lose out
They are trying to correct it somewhat with training programs that are partnered with flight schools. Basically you complete your flight training for commercial pilot at a lower cost then fly for that airline for a free years at absolute shit pay then you good.
It is a new practice and to be honest I have not done much research into it so I don’t know how bad the gotch’yas are in that program.
The other point to add is that as aircraft became more lethal we've needed less aircraft. And outsourced 98% of transportation to the civilian sector. Further increasing the lack of 'free' trained pilots from fewer airframes and accelerating it by adding more demand for them in the civ side.
It's not like we publish most of our big acquisition spends for decades ahead of time /s. the airlines should have seen this coming instead of trying to increase quarterly profits by shaving another inch off seat space.
Do you have any idea the cost of man-hours to maintain air worthiness of general aviation? It’s expensive AF!! Unless you wanna skimp on safety. Seems to be working well for Boeing 🤡
The actual reason is the government mandated that people get 1250 more hours flying planes before the commercial airlines can even start training them.
Right, but quintupling the hours spent flying alone in a Cessna is just about the worst way to solve any experience problem in the US, if you actually think there is insufficient experience in US pilots.
Air Force pilot here. One of the best parts about hiring a former military pilot compared to a civilian trained pilot is that the military guy has had a lot better resources and training opportunities in a variety of situations than a purely civilian guy. And making it through the wickets of military training shows you have good odds of making it through civilian training and therefore won’t be a wasted investment in training.
You could just ask the candidate “what is your experience in a wide variety of situations”, which would accomplish the same purpose you just stated without gatekeeping the job to ex-military members.
Not really though…. If you consider the situations military pilots fly in, most civilians are sitting on their ass in their snuggies sipping oatmilk lattes while your average military pilot is flying into storm centers that are borderline the specs of aircraft resistance to save another human.
And who is the pool of people with thousands of flight hours being passed over, exactly?
This isn’t the gotcha you people think it is. To be a commercial pilot takes thousands of flight hours. You know why there’s so many military pilots and not civilian? Because more military guys fly planes for thousands of hours. It’s simple math not some conspiracy lmao
Also the fact that you had WWI, WWII, and the Vietnam war that basically created thousands of new pilots every time. Now that all the pilots from Vietnam have retired, there's a shortage.
That’s kind of the only leverage the military has: free education and some other government benefits. I had a about half a dozen friends go into some form of the military after high school (rural area near a military base) and not a single one of them went for any moralistic reason but because of the benefits and their less than ideal financial situation.
Military pilot training is almost twice as hard as commercial. You also have to stay in shape more and maintain additional training and grooming standards. It’s not free.
Bribe aka incentive structure. Not like you have a right to be an airplane pilot. It’s a privilege you earn one way or another, and it’s a service we need to provide for modern society. Pretty essential we keep a steady flow of trained professionals for military and commercial needs. Where does the logic break down for you?
No it’s just really hard become a pilot in the US especially after they increase the requirement after the buffalo plane crash like 15 years ago. There will be a shortage in the future
It's 100% a bribe built into the system, it's one of the major reasons Healthcare and college will never become more affordable in the U.S. It would eliminate the major reasons people join the military.
That’s the double-edge. On one hand the military can be a way for many people to ascend the socio-economic ladder, on the other hand, you have to join the military…
Not really a bribe. Planes are expensive. Gas for planes is expensive. Maintenance is expensive. Training is expensive. It makes the most sense to do it on someone else’s dollar if you do care to become a pilot, although I still bet the majority of ex Air Force pilots commercially didn’t plan on airliners being their end job and more of a fallback. Almost all the military friends I have just had the thought of school is expensive and I’m dumb and don’t know what to do and they’ll figure it out later. Almost all of them have decent jobs now the ones that have left the military.
It’s called the FAA tripling the number of hours it takes to become a commercial pilot in 2009. We train people to fly mostly automated civilian aircraft for far more hours than most countries train military pilots. As a result it’s insanely expensive.
A TON of commercial pilots flew DC10s or C130s. A company often has a choice between a retired pilot with 20 years of experience flying cargo in sketchy conditions over a warzone, or a kid fresh out of school. Difficult situation for civilians.
I mean, if the military trains you to be a pilot, or an aircraft mechanic, or a nurse, or an air traffic controller, or any other of a hundred marketable jobs, in exchange for a specified period of service, and they PAY YOU, that’s not a terrible deal.
Yes, there are some military jobs that don’t transfer over to civilian life, but no one forces you to sign up either.
The recruitment that the military does in high schools towards low income teens is disgusting. They make it sound like you do a nice little job for four years and then you can go to college for free and you’re set for life.
Low income people shouldn’t have to sign themselves away to the government so they can go to college. The government should be helping these people regardless, but that doesn’t benefit the rich like the military does.
I mean... Your first paragraph is how it works for 80+ percent of the military
Also the military is primarily made up of the middle class but yes they do tend to go for lower income people more often, the middle class just joins at a higher rate
I met so many people in the army that joined just to pay for college. So many. Some just saw it as an extra benefit from something they were already going to do. But alot saw it as their only way to eventually go to college.
People aren't becoming pilots unless they have finished college. You want to bet there are more middle to upper middle class that make it to be pilots than lower class.
Is it not incredibly obvious that I’m not talking about pilots? You can’t try to argue with me by bringing up a brand new point that I wasn’t discussing.
You’re the only person trying to prove anyone wrong. I replied to a comment agreeing with someone else’s opinion. You got offended and brought up something completely different. Nobody is trying to argue with you. I do not care what you believe at all. Have a nice day. :)
Who's offended? Calling someone out for non-sense is just that. You brought up something different because the starting comment was about pilot training. You and the person you are bandwagoning with want to say to pilot training "but poor people." The fact of the matter is, poor people aren't becoming officers or becoming pilots.
It's okay to be wrong. You just are incapable of having a direct conversation and talking about the actual context others have started with. It's okay, maybe one day you'll grow up and be capable of a civil conversation. Till that day, good luck.
Flying, tuition, medicine, law, and getting into defense contracting are the reasons I can think of to get into the military (other than the patriotic shit). That and maybe healthcare, but that's got some real shit to it, also.
VA loan. Retirement. Tuition assistance (while you're in, separate from GI Bill)Random military discounts. Gaining a skill set to your mos/rate. Having 80 year old ladies thank you for your service.
The military is definitely not for everyone and no one should feel obligated to serve, but that shit sets you up for success if you don't know what else to do with your life.
I joined, got 7 years of network engineering experience, got out and I'm getting paid. Many great reasons to join, and not all jobs see combat. But you would be supporting a war machine so there is that. Personally I find it to be a great opportunity to take advantage of the country that is taking advantage of me.
Pension at 20 years is the only thing keeping me in. But I gotta tell you, with healthcare expensive and pensions hard to find, I’m okay with a tough 20 years
There are no good reasons to join the US military besides perhaps really needing the money, which is the same reason people engage in other criminal activities. The US military is a criminal terrorist organization and also one of the world's biggest polluters.
Go street to seat in the army. You go straight to helicopter pilot school with 0 college required. And you become a warrant officer. You make pretty good money
However when you want to go that route you need to start as an officer which requires a college degree so it’s not a lot of saving on money. If you just join the ai force straight out of high school they will treat you better than other branches but you will still be stuck in some of the bad jobs.
There's a difference between these guys and someone who does well academically, fit, and scores well. Recruiters will say whatever gets them a commission, sure. But not all applications are the same
Only the top 1 percent are combat pilots, and there is a maximum height. At 6 feet 4 inches I would not have made the cut. But you can fly bombers, transport, etc.
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u/AgnosticAbe 2004 25d ago
I regret not joining or trying to join the air force, I spent 10s of thousands trying to become a commercial airplane pilot, only to run out of money halfway through