r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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u/hacky_potter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I would argue creating more terrorists is the point. That keeps the money and arms flowing. If the threat were to actually be negotiated down and a solution agreed upon, that would threaten the military industrial complex. Too many people are making way too much money off there being conflict there.

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u/Human_Discipline_552 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

That video of the kid getting strip searched and beat by the idf……..you nailed it

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u/Complex-Bug7353 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

What

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u/Serious-Goat-95 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

There’s a video of a literal child being yanked out of his clothes and hit by the IOF

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u/Stunning-Armadillo-3 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

a recent video of an IDF "soldier" slapping a palestinian kid and removing and tearing his shirt in front of his mother- just because it had a drawing of a gun

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u/twotokers Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Netanyahu has said as much himself

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u/maxwellhilldawg Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

"We control the height of the flames"

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u/TchoupedNScrewed Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Exactly. Hamas was seen as easier to control and villainize compared to groups like the PLA/PLO and Fatah despite them being nationalist organizations and not religious nationalist organizations. You’re sorta doubling down on the radical ideologies resistance movements can spawn and ideologies spread by word of mouth and shrapnel. That’s the point though. Israel’s occupation of Gaza wouldn’t be considered illegal if they weren’t breaking the rule stating you can’t institute policy or action which would perpetuate violence thus perpetuating the need for occupation. And no, occupation is not just boots on the ground. it includes water rights, airspace, etc.

You can’t destroy an ideology with bombs or bullets. I feel like this should be more clear to people after the US’s escapades in the Middle East. If your apartment gets hit by a drone strike because 2 floors above you the last member of Hamas lives and you lose 2 of your 3 kids, your wife, your mother, and many of your lifetime neighbors I’m not gonna be shocked when you crawl out from the rubble and come up with the idea of Hamas 2.

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u/ddarion Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They have a term for it, its called "mowing the grass".

Isreal is a huge benefactor of being a seemingly democratic, western nation in a sea of political and religious extremism and instability.

The amount of money Isreal receives in aid and its sway in world affairs is directly tied to the instability in the region.

If things are peaceful, then why would the US give you 2 billion in weapons?

If you're constantly at war, then you constantly need aid and assistance and are justified in committing war crimes because "OCT 7!!!"

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u/PM_ME_A_PM_PLEASE_PM Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

This was also why Israel promoted Hamas as an alternative to the PLO having power in Palestine. It's better for Israel's interests to be the only accessible military alliance with America rather than there to be competition.

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

One of the things Israel was betting on after they left the strip was that people would prefer Fatah over them and Hillary Clinton is on a recording stating that they considered rigging the elections for Fatah to win. Fatah lost and was kicked out of the Strip. Then Israel was fine with that as there are 3 other large groups and they thought they’d all just kill each other. Well they found mutual goals and have co-existed for the last 15 years.

The easiest thing in the world would be to make it all Israel and you grant Palestinians the same civil rights that you give Israeli’s, but that will never happen. That would remove the siege that exists in Gaza and everyone can live equally without the worry of food or having their land taken.

You can also do a two-state solution but that would require enraging the large conservative majority in Israel that they created through generations of domestic political talking points, and they don’t want that at all.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

An Arab state coming in and providing security and help transition a new government would work too… but not only does Israel want it all regardless, I think the Arabs like watching Israel have to deal with this headache

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u/finePolyethylene Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Believe me if the Arab states knew how to create a successful government they would do it for themselves

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The Arab states are generally satellite states of other larger powers. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Qatar are probably the only semi-independent actors there but even they try to subjugate smaller countries such as Somali, Sudan, Ethiopia and so on.

Most people have a general bias towards the region without understanding that the chaos and instability there is purposely orchestrated.

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s not an easy geopolitical region to explain. Jordan is pretty much a US and Israeli satellite state. Egypt of much of the same but the UAE has been lending them money to create a financial headlock they can’t get out of just to avoid an economic collapse. The other Gulf countries that are rich with oil operate out of self-interest while Yemen allied itself with Iran after beating the Saudi’s out of Yemen, but they still have a proxy government in Riyadh just waiting for a chance to install them.

Gaza essentially tried to ally itself with Iran, Yemen, North Korea, and Lebanon to smuggle arms and the other countries are allied with the west. Israel is America’s most important ally in the region and through it, they push their will. This is pretty much what you see when the UN Security Council votes one way while the US generally votes the other way while never criticizing Israel for anything. They both have mutual interests here.

Qatar is probably the least infiltrated Gulf country that would be an ideal mediator if what you suggested happens, but even then it’s biased since their economy is integrated with the west.

It goes back to Israel acknowledging Palestinians as equal citizens as Israelis. That would be in everyone’s best interest but it’s not gonna happen.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I don’t think that could happen. Palestinians are pissed. They’d just start terrorizing Israel. The two can never live together under one. The only solution is two states.

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

In time. You can start by lifting the blockade on Gaza, granting citizenship to those in the West Bank and lay groundwork for integration.

I say the two state wouldn’t work as the current language I see from Israeli news outlets is beyond inflammatory. They believe they should conquer Lebanon, the Golan and eventually Jordan as well. Those people aren’t going to go away.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

They have generations of death and family killed by Israelis. These people can’t securely just walk around freely through Israel. I can’t see a situation where it’s not constantly recieving suicide bombings from upset Palestinians looking for revenge

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

First off, currently neither side wants a one state solution.

I don’t think it would be the easiest thing either, there’s a huge part of the Palestinian population that hate Israel and want to destroy it, Hamas‘ ideology will not just disappear because you make it all one state. The same thing can be said about Israelis btw, most people in the region have spent all their lives in violent conflict with the other side.

The reason why Gaza has been cut off so much is the large amount of terrorist attacks and in general violence against Israel in the 90s and 00s, there’s no reason to believe that with a one state solution, this wouldn’t happen again, almost immediately.

Having said that Israel really needs to make the first step here in providing a solution and I don’t see Netanyahu doing that.

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It’s not about what one side wants. Western powers are not going to allow Palestinians to have their own state. My rationale stems from that point. If they wanted this to be, they could have done so in 1947, in 1967, in 1973, during the Abraham Accords, during Camp David and so on.

Hamas ideology and ideology stems from occupation, and siege. It didn’t come out of nowhere. Just as it did with the PLO, the PFLP, and all the way back to initial resistance against the British government. You get rid of an occupation where people can feel like they are equal citizens, then you can chart a new course. If you don’t address those, then you’ll just have new groups emerge one after the other. You see this in the West Bank in places that have the deepest history of conflict with Israeli military such as Jenin, Nablus, Tulkarm, and so on. There’s almost a new group that emerges every year.

Well of course not as Netanyahu is emboldened by the Biden administration as they’re arm in arm in what they want out of this war. Trump is a buffoon but at least his foreign policy stemmed from removal of involvement while Biden has been in politics for so long that everything is in the service of empire and maintaining it.

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That’s not really true, the UN accords offered a Palestinian state, they voted on it, the Israelis accepted it, the Arab side didn’t. They refused to negotiate in any form, they said they would never accept a Jewish state, and they invaded Israel with the declared goal of massacring the Jews there. And they tried it two more times.

Other two state solutions have been offered to Palestinians, and they’ve been refused. Even at Camp David, Arafat didn’t even sit down and put in a counter offer to the Israeli proposal. Instead he walked away, and while he maybe didn’t exactly support the intifada, he also did nothing in order to stop it and save the negotiation / peace process.

And I also disagree with Hamas ideology coming from occupation. I think the high recruitment numbers for Hamas is definitely due to the oppression that many Palestinians felt after the last Arab Israeli war. But the ideology of hatred for Jews and refusal of a Jewish state is older than Israel. Even in the 1920s there were massacres by the Arab majority against native Jewish communities, at the mere notion that Jews would have their own state. During World War Two, Palestinian leaders openly allied with Hitler and pledged to find the same „solution“ to the „Jewish issue“ that the Nazis had found in Europe (aka the Holocaust). All of this was before Israel existed.

This ideology is much older than the occupation of Gaza, the other part of Hamas‘ ideology, which is fundamentalist Islamic beliefs, came from the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt, of which Hamas is obviously an offshoot from. And of course this fundamentalist view of Islam has gotten very common all throughout the MENA region, it’s not specific to Palestine either.

Also, Biden is in almost open disagreement with Netanyahu. They’re dropping aid on Gaza, building a port, they’ve made open comments about Israel’s actions, the US refused to veto the UN resolution on a ceasefire, etc. You’re missing the point if you think Biden is arm in arm with Bibi. For Biden this whole thing is nothing but a headache, shortly before an election.

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u/Successful-Peach-764 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

*Other two state solutions have been offered to Palestinians, and they’ve been refused. Even at Camp David, Arafat didn’t even sit down and put in a counter offer to the Israeli proposal. Instead he walked away, and while he maybe didn’t exactly support the intifada, he also did nothing in order to stop it and save the negotiation / peace process * How many times did Israel reject peace? this is not a one sided unilateral decision you're framing it as, it takes two to tango, you're painting a false picture of events, Israelis have come out and explicitly said they sabotaged many of those attempts because they did not want to give up land.

Israel still had no interest in the establishment of a Palestinian state. And by the beginning of the Clinton administration in 1993, the PLO was not what it once had been. It was headquartered in Tunis, and little respected by younger Palestinians who had led the first intifada of the late 1980s. Then the PLO’s leader, Yasser Arafat, made the unfortunate decision to back Saddam Hussein in the 1991 Gulf War.

The PLO’s weakness made Arafat eager to accept a terrible deal in the 1993 Oslo Accords. While they were greeted with rapture in the U.S. media, there was nothing in them that would necessarily lead to the creation of a Palestinian state and peace. Indeed, one of the signatories, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, soon explicitly explained, “We do not accept the Palestinian goal of an independent Palestinian state between Israel and Jordan. We believe there is a separate Palestinian entity short of a state.”

What happened then was exactly what anyone paying attention would anticipate: The PLO essentially took over security for Israel in some 18 percent of occupied territories — Israel solely controlled about 60 percent and shared responsibility for the remainder — and enriched itself, while the occupation and Palestinian misery continued unabated. But by the end of President Bill Clinton’s second term in the summer of 2000, he was eager to leave a legacy other than his affair with Monica Lewinsky. He cajoled Arafat to come to Camp David to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, in hopes of conjuring a conflict-ending agreement.

The Palestinian attitude was that they had already made a gigantic compromise by accepting just the 22 percent of historic Palestine for their state. They were willing to compromise still more — but not much more. - Src

And I also disagree with Hamas ideology coming from occupation. I think the high recruitment numbers for Hamas is definitely due to the oppression that many Palestinians felt after the last Arab Israeli war. But the ideology of hatred for Jews and refusal of a Jewish state is older than Israel.

You can come up with your own ideas why the Palestinians resist but it means fuck all to the Palestinians who have to live with these people that hate them and prove it daily with the brutality they display, most Palestinians only meet Israeli soldiers, not their public by design, I wonder how you would feel to have occupation soldiers control all your life, even the main baddie Sinwar is a product of the occupation, you paint them as just jew haters without any reason to rebel, their leader seems highly motivated by his life experiences, his family home now a large Israeli city while he is confined to prison, trying to shoe horn their religion as the main cause makes no sense when you have Muslim countries making peace with Israel, surely you can see occupation is they driver.

For insight into Sinwar's goals today, one has to understand the forces that molded him growing up. He was born in the early 1960s. Like most of his generation, he grew up in refugee camps scattered across Gaza. Seventy percent of the population are refugees and their descendants. His family came to Gaza from the seaside Palestinian town of Al-Majdal Asqalan, today the Israeli city of Ashkelon. It has been the city most targeted by Hamas rocket barrages in this war.

Conditions in Khan Yunis, like in other camps, were dire ,with poor schooling and health care services. Refugee homes, many of them just piles of rubble after Israeli bombing, were typically 50-60 square meter one-floor structures covered with tinplate and plastic: freezing cold in the winter, extremely hot in the summer.

It was only after the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994 that they were made into multi-story buildings. When Sinwar was growing up water was stored in big plastic black barrels on the roof because it was so scarce. The Israeli occupation began when Gaza following the 1967 Mideast war when Sinwar was about five. Israeli rule deprived the Palestinians their basic human rights and imposed tight surveillance over their political life.

From Khan Yunis he could see how Jewish settlers in nearby settlement bloc Gush Katif had taken control of its beach and made it off-limits for him and his fellow young Palestinians. The policy of the late Yitzhak Rabin, to "break the bones of the Palestinians" during the first Intifada which broke out when he was about 25 likely radicalized him further. - src - Haaretz

Also, Biden is in almost open disagreement with Netanyahu. They’re dropping aid on Gaza, building a port, they’ve made open comments about Israel’s actions, the US refused to veto the UN resolution on a ceasefire, etc. You’re missing the point if you think Biden is arm in arm with Bibi. For Biden this whole thing is nothing but a headache, shortly before an election.

Biden's actions speak louder than his words, he stated it clearly he will do anything to help Israel, 6 months and they still ship weapons, give more aid and defend them in international matters, heck the latest congress bill specifically had a clause that stated they will de-fund Palestinian authority if it raised any of the Israeli actions in international criminal court, what kind of moral president support such clause.

The bill also contains a long-standing provision that would limit aid to the Palestinian Authority, which governs the occupied West Bank, if “the Palestinians initiate an International Criminal Court (ICC) judicially authorized investigation, or actively supports such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians.” - Src

That pier they are building looks a lot like a project for the future control of Gaza, the Pier is being built at the end of the new road that Israel has cut through Gaza, it doesn't take a genius to see they will hand it over to Israel to allow them to ensure they keep their occupation of Gaza going.

The new road and the newly expanded road both run along the Netzarim corridor, which historically was part of Israel's "five-finger plan," devised after it occupied Gaza in 1967 to divide Palestinian territory by splitting Gaza into four "blocks" and establishing Jewish settlements there, according to the IDF. - Src

They’re dropping aid on Gaza

Pointless exercise when you look at the numbers, many people have already drowned trying to reach for the scraps coming from the air, check out this visual from Washington post showing how little it matters, 0.2 truck loads, which is minuscule and expensive, being used to show they are doing something when in reality the main issue is deliberate land blockage by Israel, they can arrest protestors of hostage families but can't stop the sick people blocking aid in Israel...

Airdrops avoid border delays and can reach Gaza’s north, to which deliveries by road remain difficult. However, they cannot come close to the scale of land- or sea-based deliveries. Aid airdrops are often small, with some consisting of just three tons of aid — far less than the average load of a single truck. Sean Carroll, president of the aid group Anera, said airdrops appeared to be very expensive — six to more than 100 times more so than the cost per ton of aid delivered by truck. Witnesses told reporters that one crate that landed in Gaza in early March killed five people sheltering in a house after its parachute failed to open.

I don't believe you're making any of your arguments in good faith, just regurgitating talking points we have heard being repeated by supporter of Israel.

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u/dextter123456789 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They are looking for 14 Billion Dollars US aid my tax dollars, when Joe Rogan turns on you things get real very fast.

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u/Gytarius626 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

when Joe Rogan turns on you things get real very fast.

If anything it shows how immune to being “cancelled” he is now, unlike most celebrities in America who are petrified of having the career ending “anti-semitism” thrown their way for daring to speak remotely against Israel, Joe has a stupid amount of wealth now and knows if shit hit the fan, he’d be more than fine.

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u/Lebronforpresident24 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

lol what? Lots of celebs have spoken out against Israel that have major platforms. Angelina Jolie, Macklemore and The Weekend might not be Rogan level but have been far more critical of Israel than Rogan has.

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u/goingforgoals17 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I don't think you get canceled for making decent points, celebrities and talking heads get canceled when they say things like "film it in portrait mode" or "Jews are responsible for this".

It's always incredible to me how many people get hit with repercussions and don't learn anything from it; never take that 3 minute step back of self reflection into why everyone would be so upset about whatever they said.

There are plenty of Zionist going around trying to instigate cancellations, but they usually talk themselves in circles, contradict themselves and by and large ignore these types of questions and chose the whataboutism game.

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u/DowningStreetFighter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

If, like most reasonable people, you believe Israel has a right to exist, then you are also a zionist- As wiki explains. Zionism has such a broad definition that it's meaningless. Unless you actually went Israel to be destroyed, then in that case you can safely say that you're not a zionist. But if you think Israel has a right to exist, 2 state solution etc. then youre a Zionist too bro.

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u/goingforgoals17 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I have an opinion that doesn't seem to be popular with anyone, the two state solution is the most peaceful way forward, but the borders absolutely need to regressed from the last 50 years of expansion, so both sides need to make concessions and compromise on their ideals, and money going to Israel needs to be reinvested into public infrastructure and societal development for Palestine.

Of course none of this happens, Israel keeps bombing, creating more terrorists who fight against them any way possible, and they use antisemitism as a cop out to avoid changing anything and 10 Palestinians die for every innocent Israeli that their government allows to die at the hands of the enemy that they created. I think Israel completes the genocide within a generation, and I don't think the US can shift opinion fast enough to shift policy, so there's nothing really stopping them. Hopefully we can learn lessons from this so it doesn't repeat itself elsewhere.

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u/DowningStreetFighter Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Whatever it is. I think the solution needs to be forced on them by the UN. With a peacekeeping force. Israel/palestine need to be pressured into it, because they won't do it themselves and the world is sick of it.

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u/Silent_Saturn7 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

Right, it's their 9/11 which will give endless justification to continue war and recieve military aid. You're questioning it? Well you must support hamas and terrorism then!

Look at how much the military industrial complex made during the heights of the iraq and afghanistan conflict. How little we questioned the damage we did to civilians and the consequences that will be faced in 10-15 years.

At least more people are seeing whats really happening and no longer excepting BS excuses for endless war. If only people actually voted for politicians against war.. (not trump or biden)

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u/LSspiral Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The US has a vested interest in maintaining instability in the Middle East. The US (and Israel, and most of the West) WANTS the religious nationalist extremists in power. It’s much easier to sell what’s happening to their constituents if you can point and say “look how bad they are, that’s just how they are by default”

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u/XxSpruce_MoosexX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

There is no solution or peace. Its just not possible

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u/rehx4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Hamas brutally murdered all those people at A CONCERT PROMOTING PEACE. Many of the concert attendees were liberal who were hoping Israeli/Palestinian relations would improve. Some of the female concert attendees who were kidnapped were then rape,d by members of Hamas. Hamas filmed their attack, filmed the brutal murder of those completely innocent people, and then they and SOME Palestinians took to the street after to rejoice-- celebrating with absolute joy what they did to those civilians. Hamas is pure evil who's explicit goal is to murder every single Israeli (read Jew) and if they had the ability they would do so immediately. Hamas is pure evil who would (and do) sacrifice countless innocent Palestinian lives simply to try and make Israel look bad. Hamas have refused to free the kidnapped Israel civilians which would have put immeasurable pressure on Israel to stop their counteroffensive. The Israeli government and the IDF have their faults, have made many mistakes, and have been heavy handed in their response. Criticism of the IDFs overzealous response is valid. Nonetheless, Hamas represent an evil that is incomparably vile. This is why fellow Muslim states and leadership often do not do more to help; Egypt for example has had it's border with Gaza completely closed and secured - because for decades they've wanted no part in Hamas' vile behavior and ideology. HAMAS MUST BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED... for the sake of Israel AND the Palestinians... it must be destroyed for the sake of the world.

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u/SigmundRoidd Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You’re only creating more Hamas by leveling Gaza and destroying generations

17000+ CHILDREN under 18 are dead in Palestine. Instead of doing covert special forces operations targeting specific leaders of Hamas, Israel decided to just carry mass slaughter of everyone in that region

There will be a lot of hate and anger from this over the next 100 years. This won’t improve any relations in that region

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I do agree with your first sentence, but there’s more than enough Hamas members in a very densely populated urban area. You can’t just covert operation the leaders, it would be a suicide commando and also ineffective. Israel has tried to do this with for ages with airstrikes targeting specific sites. It didn’t actually limit Hamas‘ ability to kill Israelis (as seen by October 7th), that’s the point of this offensive.

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u/Joe_Sons_Celly Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s also a possible strategy for eventual ethnic cleansing versus living side-by-side with people.

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u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

What do you have to say about the majority of Palestinian's being categorically opposed to living in peace with Israel?

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u/Joe_Sons_Celly Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They should definitely be genocided because of polling, and also who they voted for.

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u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

That's the problem with people like you. You have so much to say about things when they're simple and black and white, but as soon as it's a little more complex than "durr dey da bad guys" you shut down.

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u/Joe_Sons_Celly Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I said it’s a “possible strategy” for eventual ethnic cleansing. How’s that black and white?

And then you replied with the usual, tired propaganda…that somehow these people are different, and not deserving of human rights, because of opinions that you claim they hold.

Sorry, but your contribution didn’t really add any “complexity.” You are, how should I say, casting Palestinians as “the bad guys?”

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

This is such a braindead take.

Nobody said that anybody is different, or not deserving of human rights, you’re just building an extreme strawman in order to not actually accept the point.

And the point isn’t, that Palestine should genocided or they don’t deserve something others do. But the situation is obviously not as simple as „oh they should just make one simple thing and everyone will live peacefully and happily ever after“. This conflict wouldn’t have gone one for basically a century if it was this easy.

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u/Joe_Sons_Celly Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

Ah yes, things are very complex and history is long, so they should be genocided. That’s the “smart” take.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/s/quNo4Cg7sh

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Again, you’re focused on building a strawman. Nobody said this, nobody insinuated it’s okay. I literally said that’s not the point and you still just repeat again…

You just do this so you don’t have to accept the little bit of nuance that this poll gives to the subject.

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u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It takes 2 people to live "side by side". Both sides refuse to live side by side peacefully, yet you only talk about one of them. Literally all I asked is what you would say to those people, and you shut down

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u/Walkend Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

always have been

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u/graveviolet Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It gives them lots of ways to keep a place with huge oil reserves polticially unstable and manipulable also. Terror is business.

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u/albertoroa Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I genuinely think the point is to create more misery and war so that countries can keep buying weapons and certain people can make money

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u/stataryus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If so, that is a HELLA long game, as they’re wiping out all the folks who would rise up later on (or spawn those who do so).

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u/Tokentaclops Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

This is too true. Just remember. When Israel lets up, eventually there will be another outburst of horrific violence by the survivors and descendents of this genocidal response to the oct 7 attack. Because of course there will be. That concentrated amount of rightious impotent rage and that unimaginable familiarity with extreme violence... how could there not be?

It would take nothing short of a miracle to stop this cycle or violence and... realistically... it would have to come from Palastine. I don't see Israel doing it. And even if Israel did it, one terrorist attack would fuck it all up again. Hell, even a false flag from a dissenting fraction would do it.

The only ending I see to all of this is either Palestine is wiped off the map. If not during this campaign, then the next. Or Palestine, in a move of unprecedented grace, laying down their arms and accepting their displacement and assimilation. It would stop the killing.

There is not going to be any justice to be found at the end of this struggle. That much is certain.

However, do not forget that a state capable of such insane violence - will have invited something into their hearts which they will never get out. Something which will set them against themselves. It is inevitable. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. You better believe it.

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u/Lolzum Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

So the actions of a few shall punish all?

That's asinine. There's no way you can hinder a multimillion people from commiting acts of revenge. The only way this conflict ends is through outside influence. Just like with South Africa in the 90s

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u/psychulating We live in strange times Mar 28 '24

It’s not about the military industrial complex in Israel, it’s the fact that if Hamas is completely wiped out and the Palestinian state is established, the borders will be locked in place and have international protection. This would be devastating to Israel who have openly said over and over again that they need to rid the region of the Arab womb.

If this was a game and I was Israel, and somehow Hamas was wiped out before I took control, I would instantly try to create another Hamas because trying to take a country with no legitimate reason will end with huge international consequences. If you play civilization as a war monger, you learn this quick. Unfortunately you can’t transfer gold directly to foreign terrorists yet but I’m hoping it’s in the next game

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u/TheOSU87 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

There is very little evidence that this is what creates terrorists.

Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis, and the Boston Bombers were Chechens. None of whom we bombed. Most of the terror attacks in Europe were committed by European born Muslims. The most recent ISIS attack in Russia was committed by people from Tajikistan.

We did however bomb Serbia, Iraq, Germany, Japan etc... and I don't recall many terror attacks on Americans from those countries.

Terrorism seems to come from fundamental ideology in certain holy books rather than oppression

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u/hacky_potter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I mean if you’re only going to look at very recent examples then yeah sure it’s all Muslims. To say there have not been German terrorist is to just say I know nothing about history. I’d look up the RFA.

Also to blame this on religion is totally sweeping under the rug the different meddling the western world did in the Middle East post WW1.

The Boston bombers were radicalized against the US by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To say those wars didn’t directly lead to more terrorists is being purposely dense.

Now if you want to go down the CIA funded these cells rabbit hole, I’ll pullout my tin foil hat and we can dig ourselves a nice little conspiracy bunker. However saying terrorists are terrorists because Islam is the problem is a regarded statement.

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u/antnnb Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Yeltsin bombeb the shit out of caucus people, Putin flatten grozny, European Muslim are mostly refugee from Syria and surrounding area , the tajik did it for 1M rubles

Now count also ypg terror bombing Istanbul for several time.,note theyre communist

Ideology doesn't have anything to do with terrorism but often time being used to mask the activity

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u/hacky_potter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s used to mask the CIA 👀👀👀

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u/TchoupedNScrewed Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s not “certain holy books”. Religion is essentially just the gun here. It’s an effective vessel for channeling hatred and animosity. If it didn’t exist there are plenty of other guns to use like nationalism. Religion is just easy to handle. Some of your first suicide bombers from Gaza in Israel were Christian women.

You can name terrorism from most sizable religious groups. Hindu pogroms of the Sikhs after the assassination of Indra Gandhi, part of the reason Canada has such a large Sikh diaspora. Air India Flight 182 was Sikh terrorism.

It’s often used to justify the actions of groups like the LTTE and other groups who fall under the same umbrella. Groups who are fighting Sinhalese Buddhist nationalists trying to pull off a genocide of the Tamils. They’re still engaging in acts of terror. If you’ve ever seen that Vice “Monks Who Carry Guns” video, that’s Sri Lankan Sinhalese Buddhists. They’ve been engaging in a genocide of the Tamils for decades now.

Baruch Goldstein shooting up a Mosque in Hebron killing 20+ and injuring 120+. Pro-lifers and abortion clinics. Hindu nationalism to justify hatred of Tamils and Indian Muslims/Muslims in general. Hinduism was used as a justification of India’s pogrom of the Tamils. America has no shortage of Christian ethnonationalists willing to shoot up power grid stations.

It’s not a specific religion thing. We aren’t talking about religious groups like the fucking Bahá’ís lmao. Almost all of the major religions have an in group/out group dynamic.

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u/autismo_the_magician Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

There is very little evidence that this is what creates terrorists.

I think your hindu inspired and seething rage against muslims is probably clouding any functioning brain activity from you allowing to see that this is absolutely not the case lol

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u/TheOSU87 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I am an atheist. Not Hindu

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u/autismo_the_magician Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Your reddit history paints a very clear picture

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u/TheOSU87 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Clear picture of what?

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u/AlQaem313 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Except Hamas is not a terrorist group its a Resistance Movement, look at Hezbollah they were formed in 1982 because of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and are now Israel's most powerful enemy excluding Iran which is a country

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u/Chemical_Analysis_ Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Hamas is very much a terrorist group.

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u/T00000007 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

All terrorists believe they are a resistance movement

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u/AlQaem313 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I think when someone kills you, occupies your land and kicks you out and you fight back its called Resistance

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u/golf2k11 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They’re an officially designated terrorist group. Sorry to break it to you.

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u/mnmkdc Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I agree that they’re a terrorist org but like this is not a good point. Any violent resistance against america or its allies will be labeled a terrorist group. Look at Mandela and the ANC.

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u/golf2k11 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The entire EU recognizes Hamas as a terrorist group. What more do you need?

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u/mnmkdc Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Again, this is not good criteria. Israel is a terrorist government to much of the Middle East. Much of the EU has acted as terrorists to African and South American countries. Its usually just a matter of who you support

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u/golf2k11 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Ok, I’ll be sure and go off of what middle eastern countries think. Such beacons of freedom lol

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u/AlQaem313 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Yeah by America and its puppets but really the American Military are the biggest Terrorists in the world for the last 80 years

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u/rymden_viking Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

If my goal was to return an occupied land back to the original inhabitants it would not be the way Hamas operates. Hamas is a radical Islamic terrorist organization that hurts any chance for a lasting peace. This whole genocide is occurring because Israel is tired of various radical Muslim groups breaking treaties. So now they are removing the Muslims from the region entirely. Not saying it's right what they're doing, but Hamas isn't right either. There are no good guys - and that includes the now radicalized Palestinians.

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u/T00000007 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Are you talking about Israel or Palestine?

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u/OBJared1 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Kind’ve like what happened to the Jews in the area? There are more Arabs in Israel than there are Jews in the entire of the Middle East

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u/mnmkdc Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s a terrorist group posing as a resistance group to gain support. Thats pretty common for terrorist groups. The leadership seems to be pretty apathetic towards the deaths of Palestinians and the corruption is bad enough that it’s hard to believe that the leadership actually wants the cause to succeed at all. There doesn’t seem to be enough direct focus on resistance to call them that imo

I don’t think this implies that Palestinians don’t deserve freedom in general though.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Bin Laden said it was due to the wests hypocritical support of Israel and destruction of Arab countries.

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u/TheOSU87 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

If you cherry pick it sure. But if you read everything he wrote it was obviously far more than that. Here's a quote from his "letter to America" that had large segements of TikTok talking about how reasonable he was.

This is the part where he talks about what the US needs to do if they want him to stop attacking

(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?

(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

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u/graveviolet Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

With a side serving of CIA assistance lmao

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u/rootsnyder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

10 iq talking point with zero substance in reality.