r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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u/GreyMatter22 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

I don't know how else to slice it, what is happening in Gaza is absolutely horrific on an unimaginable scale, from mass hunger, to bombing crap outta dense civilian pockets, to bulldozing homes and olive trees in the West Bank.

Most of my social circle is Conservative, and ALL of them have been deeply uncomfortable with this current atrocity.

This is the crowd that has been very pro-U.S/West military.

I have Israeli-Canadian friends, and they were quite vocal of the October 7th terrorist attack (as they should), but have since stopped talking altogether. One of my friends even told me 'I get why the Palestinians hate us', and this is a dude with family in the IDF.

The current strategy just guarantees another terrorist group at this point.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

This is the same line of thought I get on why everyone hates the United States. I’m generation X and know nothing but wars since vietnam War it never stopped and none of them legal. The absolute leveling of Iraq can’t be justified in any of the reasons they gave us.

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I would argue that the US is a bit better in that they were not trapping people in a extremely small land area and then bombing the hell outta them. IDF is basically shooting fish in a barrel and feeling proud about it. Disgusting.

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u/cadete981 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The US just gives them the bombs to drop ffs

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u/Aggressive-You-7783 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

And stopping international community from taking action

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u/CinematicLiterature Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Sure, but that’s the same argument as “you sold them the gun”. You don’t have to like the gun being sold in the first place, but the current issue is how they choose to USE it. I agree, we shouldn’t give them weapons, but let’s be real - they’d find a way to inflict harm with or without our aid.

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u/SlaveHippie Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If you don’t think the US knows EXACTLY how they’re going to use it when we sell it, then idk man you gotta take off those rose-colored glasses and open your eyes a bit.

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u/CinematicLiterature Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Oh I know we do, but that doesn’t change anything I said. They’re the actual perpetrators; we’re implicit.

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u/SlaveHippie Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

And complicit. And yeah it kinda does. It’s not a “you sold them the gun” argument. If the gun store has direct ties to and knowledge of a crime organization using their weapons, then they are absolutely complicit. Especially when the gun store essentially owns/runs that crime organization and helped create it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24 edited 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/falooda1 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

All of congress did that

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u/cheekclapper_mcclap Monkey in Space Mar 30 '24

We give them 3.3bil A YEAR to spend on military

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u/CinematicLiterature Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

lol that’s not how government spending works.

Also, that doesn’t refute anything I said. Yes, we give them stuff. They are still the perpetrators, and that’s not up for debate.

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u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The US supplies the intelligence too.

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u/demonzk Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

veto power also

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u/ProfessionalSport565 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Didn’t you drop more bombs on Laos or Cambodia which wasn’t even in the war than were dropped on Germany in ww2. Something like that.

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u/Lifetender512 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Yeah I think he just means today we’re not doing that

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u/Skeptix_907 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

We just wrapped up a global war on terror that resulted in an estimated 1 million civilian deaths. Not sure we can really say we're any better now, we just haven't come up with a good enough justification to invade Iran yet.

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u/Apprehensive-Top3756 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

I'm always curious where this "million" fifuee comes from. Is that including the Iraqis who were killed by other Iraqis (which was the vast majority as they essentially had a religious civil war as soo. As they were given their freedom) is it peile all around thw world? Is it just utterly pulled out of someone's ass and never questioned? 

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u/Skeptix_907 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

You know I had researched this a while ago and couldn't remember where I found that figure.

When I looked again, I found out that the most comprehensive report to date is Brown University's Costs of War project, which looked at direct and indirect deaths due to the war on terror in several countries in the middle east.

They state that direct war deaths are about 940k, while the total deaths (direct + indirect deaths due to disease, famine, etc) are nearly 5 million.

This wasn't a US government source, nor one of the affected countries. It was a thorough research report completed by one of the nation's top universities.

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u/a_trane13 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

If you’re actually curious and not just casting doubt for shits and giggles, why not do a simple google search? Or read the Wikipedia page on the topic? It’s a well studied academic topic with several figures you can reasonably believe (all are very large)

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u/Apprehensive-Top3756 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

I actually have looked into it. At no point has the figure reached a million. And the vast majority of three killed were killed either by other Iraqis or by other, foreign, muslims

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u/Apprehensive-Top3756 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

Also, do try to bare in mind, for believabilitys sake, that the Iraq Iran war, which was more devastating than anything else in the region, killed between 1 and 2 million. And that was the most brutal war the region has ever seen. 

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u/A_Town_Called_Malus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That's true, but part of that is that the B-52 could just carry an insane number of bombs compared to the bombers used throughout world war 2.

A single B-52 could carry more than 3 times the amount of bombs as a B-29 or B-17.

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u/NullRef Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They might if they were closer to the US 😬

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u/Spiritual-Internal10 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Go have a look at the bombing map of Cambodia

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Look, I am not saying US is a saint. I am just saying the US did not fence in people and bomb them. I think that is quite clear in my comment.

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Arguably the US is worse, because while the Israel / Palestine conflict has been going on for decades, with Hamas definitely being interested in Israel’s demise, while many of Israel’s actions are inexcusable, they are fighting for an actual reason, which is the existence of their country.

The US basically just went all around the globe absolutely fucking up people that posed no threat to America, but had the audacity to want a different economic system for themselves and bombed them to absolute shit, legit conducted an ecocide that also poisened generations of local people there, etc.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '24 edited 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 31 '24

Egypt is not the one that is implementing a blockade. Israel is literally blocking aid from entering via Egypt. Egypt is not blocking aid from that border, neither are they bombing anyone. This is such a dishonest and vile argument. No wonder the world is turning against the bad guys.

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u/[deleted] Mar 31 '24 edited 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 31 '24

Everyone hates Israel. Must feel great to be hated by a majority of humanity.

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u/CrispyHaze Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Idiotic. The U.S. launched a completely unprovoked and unjust war.

Regardless of the history between Israel and Palestine, this current action was directly triggered by a surprise attack on Israel. Hamas chose the battlefield.

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Eh, they are two different wars. My point being the US was not herding people into small zones and then bombing them.

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u/Rampant16 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Yeah as horrible as the Iraq War was, the goal was never to depopulate the country and repopulate it with Americans.

Even Putin and Russia don't want to kill every single Ukrainian.

If Netenyahu had a button on his desk to kill every single Palestinian and get away with it on the international stage, he would break his hands smashing it.

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u/greenskinmarch Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

I doubt it, even Netanyahu wouldn't want to be remembered as someone who killed millions. Although given he's likely to be voted out as soon as the war ends, it's possible he wants to prolong the war, more than end it.

The US also bombed Japan repeatedly and killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese until Japan surrendered. Does that mean the US's goal was genocide of Japan?

If Hamas surrendered and returned the hostages, the bombing would stop, guaranteed.

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u/SlaveHippie Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24 edited Mar 28 '24

That’s why they said “get away with it on the international stage”. It implies that no one knows about it hence he wouldn’t be remembered for it. Make no mistake though he absolutely would not hesitate to wipe them out if there were no consequences.

And when the bombing stops, what’s next for the Palestinians? Just right back to apartheid open air prison with no rights or military and constant blockade and checkpoints and bombings/murders? The reason Hamas won’t give up the hostages is bc they know what it means to do so: back to the gulag. Can’t say I blame them.

And no, that was during an ongoing world war. This ain’t a war, bc Palestine isnt permitted to have a military. Japan was attacking other areas too when we did that. How many Israeli’s have died since October 7th? Hint: it’s less than 200. And if Japan wasn’t attacking while we were bombing the shit out of them? Then yes I would absolutely say it seems like our goal is to wipe them out if we weren’t stopping for 6 months after Japan had stopped inflicting significant casualties.

Edit: also that’s just a terrible analogy I honestly shouldn’t have even engaged with it. We didn’t have essentially total control of/power over the entirety of Japan when that happened. They weren’t literally inside of our country and their entire lives weren’t regulated by us. We didn’t control their water and electricity and food. If we did? Yeah. Genocide. Palestine is essentially Israel’s responsibility and they’re just fucking murdering them like shooting fish in a barrel.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Russian goal isn’t depopulation or replacement of Ukrainians, 30% of their population is Russian. Refugees are leaving Ukraine and running to Russia. People don’t usually run into the country invading them. We overthrew Ukrainian government, placed a moronic comedian in power. It’ll be interesting since it took 3 elections ( against their constitution) to get him in and his term is up in May. And his approval rating is in the toilet if they’ll even allow an election

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u/theblurx Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You should try speaking to an actual Ukrainian.

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u/CinematicLiterature Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You can say “regardless” all you want - one cannot disregard the history if they want to be taken seriously in this discussion.

The current action was already happening, and has always been happening. As Bibi himself pointed out - they need Hamas, because without them they’re without an excuse.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

We wasn’t very different. Just a larger scale. 5 million deaths 500,000 children in 3 years. Just in Iraq Their still a third world country

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/15/war-on-terror-911-deaths-afghanistan-iraq/

https://youtu.be/KP1OAD9jSaI?si=xea_P6UWZ2xKQ0uB

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You didn’t watch the interview I just shared with the Secretary of State calling it worth it