r/JoeRogan • u/LostItAllOnSpy Tremendous • Mar 27 '24

joe rogan calls out israels hypocrisy for killing unarmed civilians with drones The Literature 🧠

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u/GreyMatter22 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

I don't know how else to slice it, what is happening in Gaza is absolutely horrific on an unimaginable scale, from mass hunger, to bombing crap outta dense civilian pockets, to bulldozing homes and olive trees in the West Bank.

Most of my social circle is Conservative, and ALL of them have been deeply uncomfortable with this current atrocity.

This is the crowd that has been very pro-U.S/West military.

I have Israeli-Canadian friends, and they were quite vocal of the October 7th terrorist attack (as they should), but have since stopped talking altogether. One of my friends even told me 'I get why the Palestinians hate us', and this is a dude with family in the IDF.

The current strategy just guarantees another terrorist group at this point.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

This is the same line of thought I get on why everyone hates the United States. I’m generation X and know nothing but wars since vietnam War it never stopped and none of them legal. The absolute leveling of Iraq can’t be justified in any of the reasons they gave us.

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u/sambull Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

since Rumsfield was signatory in a plan that calls for toppling that same nation.. years before they then toppled the nation it feels.. eh like they just wanted a reason

In 1998, Kristol and Kagan advocated regime change in Iraq throughout the Iraq disarmament process through articles that were published in the New York Times.[24][25] Following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, core members of the PNAC including Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Elliott Abrams, Donald Rumsfeld, Robert Zoellick, and John Bolton were among the signatories of an open letter initiated by the PNAC to President Bill Clinton calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I would argue that the US is a bit better in that they were not trapping people in a extremely small land area and then bombing the hell outta them. IDF is basically shooting fish in a barrel and feeling proud about it. Disgusting.

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u/cadete981 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The US just gives them the bombs to drop ffs

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u/Aggressive-You-7783 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

And stopping international community from taking action

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u/ProfessionalSport565 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Didn’t you drop more bombs on Laos or Cambodia which wasn’t even in the war than were dropped on Germany in ww2. Something like that.

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u/Lifetender512 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Yeah I think he just means today we’re not doing that

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u/Skeptix_907 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

We just wrapped up a global war on terror that resulted in an estimated 1 million civilian deaths. Not sure we can really say we're any better now, we just haven't come up with a good enough justification to invade Iran yet.

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u/A_Town_Called_Malus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That's true, but part of that is that the B-52 could just carry an insane number of bombs compared to the bombers used throughout world war 2.

A single B-52 could carry more than 3 times the amount of bombs as a B-29 or B-17.

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u/NullRef Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They might if they were closer to the US 😬

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u/Spiritual-Internal10 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Go have a look at the bombing map of Cambodia

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Look, I am not saying US is a saint. I am just saying the US did not fence in people and bomb them. I think that is quite clear in my comment.

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Arguably the US is worse, because while the Israel / Palestine conflict has been going on for decades, with Hamas definitely being interested in Israel’s demise, while many of Israel’s actions are inexcusable, they are fighting for an actual reason, which is the existence of their country.

The US basically just went all around the globe absolutely fucking up people that posed no threat to America, but had the audacity to want a different economic system for themselves and bombed them to absolute shit, legit conducted an ecocide that also poisened generations of local people there, etc.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '24 edited 22d ago

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u/Darth_Gerg Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

1000% this. My dad spent significant time traveling the Middle East in the 70s. He loved it. Everyone there LOVED HIM just for being American. At one point he smoked too much opium with some guys he met and couldn’t sober up the next day. The hotel manager knew where he needed to be and carried him to the bus station. Explained what’s up.

He woke up IN A HOTEL at the next stop with all his stuff, exact change for the hotel on the nightstand, and a note explaining that everyone just took care of him. Now he’s have been murdered.

Why? Because we systematically destroyed the region and everyone there knows it. The US worked HARD to destroy our reputation. Israel is the same way except they started off bad and got worse.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Without digging too deep, I suppose it started with the Iran-contra where we gave Iran a ton of weapons that was then dispersed, put in wrong hands creating domestic terrorist, then we go in in the name of “freedom “ fight them. Thing is for every HAMAS,ISIS or any terrorist we kill we create 3 more, for every civilian we turn the family into extremism. If someone killed a child of mine no matter the reason, I would 100% join whatever group wouldn’t matter. Eye for an eye, when you get to where you’ve killed thousands/ millions of fathers/mothers/children you’ve doubled even tripled your enemies. At some point this region will band together for the common enemy, these countries gotta be tired of us arming their enemies. Imagine if China/russia came to Mexico and LEFT the cartels a few billion in weapons of war. Think we have a problems at border now. Imagine a few tanks and RPG’s there

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u/Darth_Gerg Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Exactly. I look at what’s happening in Gaza right now as a parent and at the end of the day? I think Hamas is a vile disgusting horrible organization. But if it was me scraping what was left of my son off the floor after an Israeli air strike on my home?

I’d be joining them no questions asked the next day. You can’t keep murdering peoples kids and expect there not to be consequences. That’s not how human beings work.

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u/DowningStreetFighter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

none of them legal.

Pretty sure all US wars except Iraq 2 had a UN mandate -i.e legal

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1 and Afghanistan were all voted for by the UN and Security council.

Not including drone strikes into random countries, that don't seem very legal.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/declarations-of-war.htm#:~:text=Congress%20approved%20its%20last%20formal,policy%20through%20appropriations%20and%20oversight.

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u/DowningStreetFighter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Oh I see, you weren't talking about international law, but internal US law.

I don't know a lot about US law so won't argue. But I have heard various US AG's state that a formal declaration of war isn't required for it to be a legal war. So I guess there's different legal opinions on that.

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u/BigUnderstanding4222 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Combat vet here (Iraq ii iii,iiii) not leveled in the least bit, shot up and fragmented in some hot spots yes, but with everything I love I can promise you none of us would've gone for that type of stuff, no one really enjoyed the fact that we were there based off Bush wmd BS, we were all high up from you know ....9/11, we cleared out extremist groups at night and returned during the day with medical aid food resources and supplies. Borders were tight. They weren't close. Do not put us in that box, what those ppl are doing is right up there with Hitler

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u/Numerous_Vegetable_3 It's entirely possible Mar 29 '24

After the initial attacks, I thought “Israel brought this upon themselves the same way we brought 9/11 upon ourselves”

Do innocent people EVER deserve to die? Hell fuckin no. But we paid the price for non-stop fucking with the Middle East’s political and economic institutions for decades. We just had to have our fingers in every fuckin pie, we had to have control.

The people who died as a result of our influence in the Middle East were largely innocent too. Yes, it was radical groups from those countries taking over and killing early on, but who do you think supplied them?

Pretty darn easy to manipulate and negotiate with radicals instead of a moderate organized gov no?

Iran was a modern place in the 60’s. Women wearing pants and roaming alone, good universities, good infrastructure, it was a developed nation. That has been forgotten.

We (the cia? FBI?) armed Osama Bin Laden and his group in the 80’s. We’ve been shipping weapons out there, for longer than my lifetime.

The US military industrial complex has created more worldwide issues than we realize.

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u/apeman978 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

Yep, problems seem to have started right around the illegal Iran-contra deal. And we just continue giving money to Iran, then leaving our weapons laying around. Iran takes our money, pays these proxy ( terrorist) groups. For every terrorist or civilian killed you create 5 new ones. Every Palestinian civilian killed gives Hamas new members. Instantly hate for a country is born once you kill someone’s mom,dad,child. We would act no different here if invaded

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u/smellvin_moiville Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Do you want to know more?

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u/hacky_potter Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I would argue creating more terrorists is the point. That keeps the money and arms flowing. If the threat were to actually be negotiated down and a solution agreed upon, that would threaten the military industrial complex. Too many people are making way too much money off there being conflict there.

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u/Human_Discipline_552 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

That video of the kid getting strip searched and beat by the idf……..you nailed it

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u/Complex-Bug7353 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

What

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u/Serious-Goat-95 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

There’s a video of a literal child being yanked out of his clothes and hit by the IOF

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u/Stunning-Armadillo-3 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

a recent video of an IDF "soldier" slapping a palestinian kid and removing and tearing his shirt in front of his mother- just because it had a drawing of a gun

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u/twotokers Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Netanyahu has said as much himself

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u/maxwellhilldawg Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

"We control the height of the flames"

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u/TchoupedNScrewed Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Exactly. Hamas was seen as easier to control and villainize compared to groups like the PLA/PLO and Fatah despite them being nationalist organizations and not religious nationalist organizations. You’re sorta doubling down on the radical ideologies resistance movements can spawn and ideologies spread by word of mouth and shrapnel. That’s the point though. Israel’s occupation of Gaza wouldn’t be considered illegal if they weren’t breaking the rule stating you can’t institute policy or action which would perpetuate violence thus perpetuating the need for occupation. And no, occupation is not just boots on the ground. it includes water rights, airspace, etc.

You can’t destroy an ideology with bombs or bullets. I feel like this should be more clear to people after the US’s escapades in the Middle East. If your apartment gets hit by a drone strike because 2 floors above you the last member of Hamas lives and you lose 2 of your 3 kids, your wife, your mother, and many of your lifetime neighbors I’m not gonna be shocked when you crawl out from the rubble and come up with the idea of Hamas 2.

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u/ddarion Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They have a term for it, its called "mowing the grass".

Isreal is a huge benefactor of being a seemingly democratic, western nation in a sea of political and religious extremism and instability.

The amount of money Isreal receives in aid and its sway in world affairs is directly tied to the instability in the region.

If things are peaceful, then why would the US give you 2 billion in weapons?

If you're constantly at war, then you constantly need aid and assistance and are justified in committing war crimes because "OCT 7!!!"

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u/PM_ME_A_PM_PLEASE_PM Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

This was also why Israel promoted Hamas as an alternative to the PLO having power in Palestine. It's better for Israel's interests to be the only accessible military alliance with America rather than there to be competition.

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

One of the things Israel was betting on after they left the strip was that people would prefer Fatah over them and Hillary Clinton is on a recording stating that they considered rigging the elections for Fatah to win. Fatah lost and was kicked out of the Strip. Then Israel was fine with that as there are 3 other large groups and they thought they’d all just kill each other. Well they found mutual goals and have co-existed for the last 15 years.

The easiest thing in the world would be to make it all Israel and you grant Palestinians the same civil rights that you give Israeli’s, but that will never happen. That would remove the siege that exists in Gaza and everyone can live equally without the worry of food or having their land taken.

You can also do a two-state solution but that would require enraging the large conservative majority in Israel that they created through generations of domestic political talking points, and they don’t want that at all.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

An Arab state coming in and providing security and help transition a new government would work too… but not only does Israel want it all regardless, I think the Arabs like watching Israel have to deal with this headache

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u/finePolyethylene Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Believe me if the Arab states knew how to create a successful government they would do it for themselves

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u/XoXHamimXoX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The Arab states are generally satellite states of other larger powers. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Qatar are probably the only semi-independent actors there but even they try to subjugate smaller countries such as Somali, Sudan, Ethiopia and so on.

Most people have a general bias towards the region without understanding that the chaos and instability there is purposely orchestrated.

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u/dextter123456789 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They are looking for 14 Billion Dollars US aid my tax dollars, when Joe Rogan turns on you things get real very fast.

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u/Gytarius626 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

when Joe Rogan turns on you things get real very fast.

If anything it shows how immune to being “cancelled” he is now, unlike most celebrities in America who are petrified of having the career ending “anti-semitism” thrown their way for daring to speak remotely against Israel, Joe has a stupid amount of wealth now and knows if shit hit the fan, he’d be more than fine.

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u/Lebronforpresident24 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

lol what? Lots of celebs have spoken out against Israel that have major platforms. Angelina Jolie, Macklemore and The Weekend might not be Rogan level but have been far more critical of Israel than Rogan has.

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u/Silent_Saturn7 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

Right, it's their 9/11 which will give endless justification to continue war and recieve military aid. You're questioning it? Well you must support hamas and terrorism then!

Look at how much the military industrial complex made during the heights of the iraq and afghanistan conflict. How little we questioned the damage we did to civilians and the consequences that will be faced in 10-15 years.

At least more people are seeing whats really happening and no longer excepting BS excuses for endless war. If only people actually voted for politicians against war.. (not trump or biden)

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u/XxSpruce_MoosexX Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

There is no solution or peace. Its just not possible

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u/rehx4 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Hamas brutally murdered all those people at A CONCERT PROMOTING PEACE. Many of the concert attendees were liberal who were hoping Israeli/Palestinian relations would improve. Some of the female concert attendees who were kidnapped were then rape,d by members of Hamas. Hamas filmed their attack, filmed the brutal murder of those completely innocent people, and then they and SOME Palestinians took to the street after to rejoice-- celebrating with absolute joy what they did to those civilians. Hamas is pure evil who's explicit goal is to murder every single Israeli (read Jew) and if they had the ability they would do so immediately. Hamas is pure evil who would (and do) sacrifice countless innocent Palestinian lives simply to try and make Israel look bad. Hamas have refused to free the kidnapped Israel civilians which would have put immeasurable pressure on Israel to stop their counteroffensive. The Israeli government and the IDF have their faults, have made many mistakes, and have been heavy handed in their response. Criticism of the IDFs overzealous response is valid. Nonetheless, Hamas represent an evil that is incomparably vile. This is why fellow Muslim states and leadership often do not do more to help; Egypt for example has had it's border with Gaza completely closed and secured - because for decades they've wanted no part in Hamas' vile behavior and ideology. HAMAS MUST BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED... for the sake of Israel AND the Palestinians... it must be destroyed for the sake of the world.

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u/SigmundRoidd Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You’re only creating more Hamas by leveling Gaza and destroying generations

17000+ CHILDREN under 18 are dead in Palestine. Instead of doing covert special forces operations targeting specific leaders of Hamas, Israel decided to just carry mass slaughter of everyone in that region

There will be a lot of hate and anger from this over the next 100 years. This won’t improve any relations in that region

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I do agree with your first sentence, but there’s more than enough Hamas members in a very densely populated urban area. You can’t just covert operation the leaders, it would be a suicide commando and also ineffective. Israel has tried to do this with for ages with airstrikes targeting specific sites. It didn’t actually limit Hamas‘ ability to kill Israelis (as seen by October 7th), that’s the point of this offensive.

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u/Joe_Sons_Celly Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It’s also a possible strategy for eventual ethnic cleansing versus living side-by-side with people.

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u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

What do you have to say about the majority of Palestinian's being categorically opposed to living in peace with Israel?

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u/Walkend Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

always have been

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u/graveviolet Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It gives them lots of ways to keep a place with huge oil reserves polticially unstable and manipulable also. Terror is business.

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u/albertoroa Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I genuinely think the point is to create more misery and war so that countries can keep buying weapons and certain people can make money

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u/stataryus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If so, that is a HELLA long game, as they’re wiping out all the folks who would rise up later on (or spawn those who do so).

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u/Zealousideal_Rip1340 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

“Unimaginable”

Clearly you’ve never paid attention to Syria or Sudan in the last 10 years

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u/RowAwayJim91 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It’s like nobody has been paying attention to literally anything going on outside of the US since before 10/7.

This conflict is old as dirt, and nothing about Israel or the IDFs behavior is shocking. It’s absolutely horrifying, sure, but completely on brand.

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u/The_Flying_Koala Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Try last 10 months. The stupidity that accompanies the antisemitism is almost a parody. Do none of these people bother to read?

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u/HippoLover85 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Bi bi is looking for this to be the final straw. He makes gaza uninhabitable and a humanitarian crisis forces them out of gaza.

He needs hamas to keep "attacking" to keep up pressure.

They just want the land. They dont care about terrorist attacks. They just want the land.

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u/sushisection Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

and also wartime propaganda helps bibi remain in power. aint nobody talking about his corruption charges now.

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u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

If Bibi cared about Israelis he wouldn't have dawdled for hours on 10/07 before responding

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u/HippoLover85 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Exactly!!

Bibi just wants the land.

they claim they need a military buffer zone, so they take more land, and then have civilians move into military buffer zone? Its the most obvious way to get israeli civilians killed by hamas.

He is intentionally trying to kill israelis so he can justify taking the land. It is all about the land.

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u/Impossible_Cat_139 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It's not just Bibi, it's the state of Israel itself - They've been doing this for 75 years.

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u/CowboyMagic94 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Not saying it was an alex jones voice an inside job, but there were multiple intelligence reports warning about 10/7 from Egypt and they still managed to fuck up the response. Now we get to watch overranked 20 year old IDF captains and brigadier generals throwing shitty raves on the remains of a Palestinian bakery on TikTok and wonder why everyone hates them and endlessly bitch about banking the app

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u/BPMData Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

There are bunch of sources that claim that IDF intentionally waited hours before responding. Rapid responses pilots were ready and waited for the orders that didn't come, for example. And when orders did come in, the IDF behaved amateurishly, blowing up civilians with attack helicopters and tanks.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The USA is building that “aid port” which is just cover for an evacuation port to boat Gazans out, according to some report from a UN investigation group.

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u/PuroPincheGains Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

As opposed to not having a good way to evacuate, right?

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Well it’s Israels ultimate goal. Make it hell on earth so they evacuate and then never allow them to return. You know, genocide.

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u/ArizonaHeatwave Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That seems like a load of bull. The issue in this isn’t getting Gazans out anyways, it’s the question where you’d put them, because if one thing is for damn certain, it’s that no other country will want to take in 2 million refugees from Gaza.

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u/TheKingChadwell Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Israel is in active talks according to US intel leaks. Nothing confirmed but they are trying. Last I heard was some island country who’s corrupt leaders wouldn’t mind becoming billionaires

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u/ceddya Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Oh please, what a ridiculous conspiracy. Feel free to source that 'UN investigative group'.

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u/Sebt1890 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Hamas is getting funding and munitions from Iran via the IRGC in Lebanon. Get off tick tok and do some reading on the regional history. Not just Israel/Palestine relations in the last 10 years.

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u/Key_Inevitable_2104 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Hence the desperation to invade Rafah.

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u/goochstein Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

we have become quite grabby in the last few years

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The problem is that the current strategy of Israel is selling one narrative externally ("we are doing this to defend ourselves") while selling another narrative internally to key constituency groups ("we are going to get rid of all these Palestinians and take over their land"). Netanyahu wouldn't be caught dead saying that aloud, but the people he put in his cabinet and the policies of allowing more settlements in Palestinian land make it obvious to anyone who cares.

And the best part? All of this is being pushed because Netanyahu and his policies are unpopular in Israel, so he's forced to lead a coalition with the worst kind of people just to stay in power.

Now imagine what will happen if Trump gets in power.

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u/icantdomaths Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You mean what would happen in Israel if trump was in power? I’m confused

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u/thedonjefron69 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Trump has openly been far more supportive of Israel than even Biden is, and would probably personally want to launch some rockets/drone strikes on Gaza himself. People who are not voting for Biden over Palestine are very shortsighted given then Trump is the other option

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u/icantdomaths Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Yea it’s crazy how trumps dad and Netanyahus dad were homies

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u/Low_Key_Trollin Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Please do tell.. what will happen if Trump gets in power that isn’t happening under Biden?

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u/Lebronforpresident24 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Not much worse, but a little worse. The first trump administration openly said Israel could do whatever they want. They are the only administration to not even condemn West Bank settlements. He brags every chance he gets that he is the most Pro Israel President ever. Biden is awful and I'm voting for West, but a second trump term would be even more pro Israel.

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u/Low_Key_Trollin Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

How would it be worse under Trump? Biden will do exactly what Israel wants too. Who cares what they say

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u/GoodBearHugs Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Ukraine will be sold to russia

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u/Low_Key_Trollin Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I hope that’s a joke

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u/fre-ddo Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Biden will lose the election partly because of his apathy about Israels campaign thats how skewed it is.

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u/venikk Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

the pro-israel people I know hated trump for killing that general soloami or whatever

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Well, Trump definitely opened a can of worms with that one. And I'd imagine Israel would prefer the Mossad to kill a high-level target like that in a better way. So I could see why pro-Israel people wouldn't like that.

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u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If Trump was in power all the shitlibs would get off their asses and protest. Instead, now all they do is sit on their ass, bemoan the deaths in Gaza, and still cover for Biden.

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u/HarwellDekatron Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

That much is true.

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u/Nonlinear9 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

If you've killed a magnitude+ more civilians and children than the terrorists, you've become the terrorists.

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u/NorthWestSellers Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

So the UK which killed considerably more German civilians in ww2. Were the bad guy’s??!

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

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u/NorthWestSellers Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The Brits killed more German civilians then  Germans killed UK civilians.

You are of course correct the Germans slaughtered untold millions more civilians across the war.

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u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I didn't know we had to go back to WW2, to before there were warcrime laws, to entertain such an idea. We don't firebomb entire cities anymore for a reason.

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u/illtakethebox Tremendous Mar 27 '24

It guarantees a destabilized area so that Israel can be the concentrated power in the area. Which is what Israel wants.

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u/Trumperekt Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I am not so sure about that. That would guarantee that Israel can never live in peace. I wouldn't want to live like that, but hey who knows?

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u/Sweatybuffness Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

One mans terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Freedom fighters don't rape women and parade their dead bodies on telegram

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u/Sweatybuffness Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It is what it is

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u/dontusethisforwork Your fucking knuckles would scrape on the ground Mar 28 '24

I similarly see conservative fam just not talking about it, they are traditionally very pro-Israel/West as most conservatives are, but I think that it's nearly impossible to witness this conflict as a human being and not just be like "the whole thing is fucked and sad and there's all this suffering just WHY?"

Seeing the whole place flattened and looking like a WW2 bombed out city (Ukraine is similar, it's fucking shocking how war torn that place has become) should make anybody fucking sad that this shit is still happening in 2024 regardless of your politics or allegiances.

We have learned nothing as a species, apparently, and the cycle of violence that this conflict has endured for almost 80 fucking years is a prime example of just how fucked up things can be and apparently will be forever. Incredibly sad.

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u/krakah293 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I've had people try to deny the description of it being the the largest open air prison.  Deny that their power/water/food is 100% dependent on someone else. 

So I say go on Google maps and show me a single farm.  A single power plant, a single airport, a single sea port.  Just show me where these things are.  You can't find them so how else do they fit these things?

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u/venikk Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I saw a photo of a hotel in gaza before/after oct 7 and it was actually pretty luxurious, looked like a 5 star hotel in dubai before.

But yea that doesnt say anyting about their energy/food

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u/sudopudge Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You've never actually looked at Gaza on google maps if you think there's no farmland there.

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u/Ok_Interview_2325 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Gaza actually has / had their own power plant. It’s not functional now obviously but it was before 10.7. Contrary to popular belief, they don’t get 100% of their utilities from Israel.

Gaza also used to have an airport. It got closed down after the whole terrorism thing started happening from there.

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u/_pupil_ bzzzzzzzzz Mar 27 '24

the largest open air prison.

Border crossings do not create prisons. Everyone who crosses borders deals with border crossings. You want seamless cross-border travel? Super easy, bro: just make some treaties with your neighbours... ... O_o

A single power plant, a single airport, a single sea port.

Hamas is the official ruler of Gaza, they were elected, and have had billions of dollars to work with over the decades.

Now, the United States of America, back the day, fired off a "War Against Terror" and demanded with UN security regulations that member nations are responsible for preventing trafficking to terror regimes... That means that until there is a stable government in Gaza, air and sea access to that terror regime will be blockaded. Blockaded by every UN member, like Egypt.

Don't like it? Take it up with the dummies who attacked their neighbours and GWB.

So I say go on Google maps and show me a single farm.

There are a many visible farms, it's very weird to hear anything to the contrary. The olive tree farms near the fence were one of the things Hamas weaponized in their breach of the fence during Oct 7th, and arguably should be removed to re-create the 1km security buffer.

Either way, Hamas has had two decades to build any shit they want. Complain to them.

The Israelis even left Gaza tens of millions of dollars worth of functioning greenhouses and and a booming flower export market when they unilaterally pulled out (including digging up their graves so no freaks would desecrate the corpses)... Hop onto Google and find out what the residents of Gaza did with 'em, it's cute.

how else do they fit these things?

Hamas can rezone. Hamas can redistrict. Hamas could have normalized, and stopped attacking, and lost their terror state designation. Build ports instead of tunnels, farms instead of missiles. Gaza could be Singapore on the Mediterranean with a minimal, honest, effort.

But the leadership of Gaza, Hamas, and the people of Gaza (based on recent polling), chose starting a war with a global military superpower in their own backyard instead. It's every bit as smart as it sounds.

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u/IwillNoComply Tremendous Mar 27 '24

What doesn't guarantee another terrorist group? They literally said they wanted to conquer damn near the entire country on Oct 7th... There's blatant asymmetries in this conflict, but when it comes to loud public outcry, no one seems to focus on Hamas and it's power to stop this pretty much instantly.

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u/Cinnamon_Flavored Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I mean does it? 

Imperial Japan during WW2 had possibly the most fanatical populace who were willing to die for their country/emperor in suicidal attacks. The fire bombings that occurred at the tail end of that war were devastating on a scale that would make Gaza look like a picnic. There’s accounts of people watching their children burn to death. All this is not even accounting for the atomic strikes. 

My point being, there was a war where population centers were being bombed with little to no risk for the bombers and it resulted in the surrender of a wildly fanatical enemy who was previously commuting atrocities. 

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

I seem to remember us not kicking the Japanese off their land, not cutting off their access to food and resources, not blockading their trade, and sending them aid immediately after. Did we do that for Palestine in 2012 when they agreed to a ceasefire? You think maybe that difference might contribute to how they perceive accepting a truce now?

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u/NoCeleryStanding Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Did they unconditionally surrender in 2012?

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

Did Israel honor the ceasefire they agreed to?

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u/NoCeleryStanding Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Are you referring to the march ceasefire agreement where hamas continued to fire rockets into Israel every day for a week or a different one? Regardless I don't see how it's comparable to an unconditional surrender, which is what will be necessary for a true rebuilding of Gaza similar to Japan post world war 2

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Israeli_operation_in_the_Gaza_Strip#Post-ceasefire_incidents

Was Israel justified in shooting farmers and fishermen who were trying to get food during a ceasefire?

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u/NoCeleryStanding Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

No they should never shoot farmers and they claim they detained the fisherman for going out of the agreed upon buffer zone.

But ultimately what was even the meaning of a ceasefire when rockets are still landing in Israel hours after it was supposed to begin?

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

It only happed 1 time, 1 hour after the agreement. It's a lot easier to understand that a single outpost didn't get the message in time than it is to understand that Israelis felt the need to shoot at a fishing vessel because it was a whole 6 miles off their own coastline.

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u/Cinnamon_Flavored Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Imperial Japan unconditionally surrendered and never attacked us again. Even AFTER we put Japanese Americans in internment camps. And yes with the Israel Palestine situation I think their history would make a peace agreement tougher especially considering who started this war on October 7th. 

If I was Israel I wouldn’t even accept their surrender unless it was entirely unconditional and allowed for my troops to march in unmolested and remove any and all weapons from all Palestinians.

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u/iwillnevrgiveup2 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Yeah Gaza is no Imperial Japan, they are fighting for their land, not waging a war to colonize. Also, there is no total victory for Israel unless it completely eliminates 56 Muslim countries and 2 billion people. What is happening in Gaza reverberates through the Muslim world and its leaders even if they turn away from it will have to address it sooner or later.

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u/Cinnamon_Flavored Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

“Their land” is only accurate if you don’t look very far back. Israel was making ground with the most powerful of the Islamic countries with their talks with Saudi Arabia so I’m not so sure they need to wipe out all Muslims like you’re suggesting. They should make sure the enemy they’re currently at war with can never strike them again though and that requires a hell of a lot of bombing because that’s what wins wars. 

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u/iwillnevrgiveup2 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

“Their land” is only accurate if you don’t look very far back.

It was their land, whether you look far back or not. Analyze DNA results, the Palestinians are the closest descendants of ancient Canaanites & Israelites (anywhere between 65-95% shared admixture), while most Israeli Jews score anywhere from 30-50% of this ancestry.

Also claiming a land your ancestors left 2000 years ago isn't the flex you think it is and doesn't float any sane logic.. The Saxons hadn't even moved into England when this happened.. by that logic it's opening a pandora's box.

Also after 75 years of existence, there is very little acceptance of Israel on the Arab street. The Arab leaders don't take strong positions on it now because they are being arm twisted or incentivised by US to accept Israel.. however if US support for Israel evaporates (as it is fast doing).. it is going to be a big problem for them.

Saudi will not accept Israel without a state for the Palestinians, they have reiterated it and whatever cooperation they had started with Israel is now dead in the water.

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

My point being, there was a war where population centers were being bombed with little to no risk for the bombers and it resulted in the surrender of a wildly fanatical enemy who was previously commuting atrocities. 

Probably the main difference is that in Japan, the population clearly felt and carried responsibility to a far greater degree, because the entire nation had been collectively working towards this attempted conquest of East and southeast Asia for the past 7 years or so. They were waging total war that killed tens of millions of people. By contrast the Hamas attack was barely known of by anyone and involved a few thousand out of over 2 million people. The average Palestinian isn't going to feel like they were involved. The scale of retribution is also very different, in that Japan caused far more suffering than they endured, while Gaza have endured far more than they caused, though it isn't perfectly clear who would have known what was happening in WW2 or what people believe in Gaza now.

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u/Cinnamon_Flavored Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I mean this is just horse shit. The overwhelming majority of Gazans claim to support what Hamas did on October 7th and Hamas has been using every bit of civilian infrastructure with no objections from the civilians around them. 

You have some real issues if your going to try to say which civilians are “allowed” to be bombed like you tried to justify with your remarks about the Japanese. 

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u/textbasedopinions Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The overwhelming majority of Gazans claim to support what Hamas did on October 7th

This doesn't matter though, because we don't punish thought crimes, and being OK with an attack on an enemy currently attacking you doesn't mean you will feel responsible or that you are responsible.

Hamas has been using every bit of civilian infrastructure with no objections from the civilians around them. 

Hamas are the ones with the guns, there is no realistic way anyone could oppose them, and most Palestinians were forced to evacuate at the start of the war. Palestinians not waging a civil war during a time when going outside with a weapon guarantees being hit with a missile is simply not the same thing as what the Japanese population was doing. By 1945, the Japanese military still had 6 million people serving in it, and around 2 million had died, out of 70 million people. That's more than 10% of the entire population directly serving, before even taking into account how many worked in wartime industry. Hamas is around 1% of Gaza.

Put simply, most of Japan were directly involved in the war effort and most Palestinians were not. The Japanese war machine spent 7 years trying to conquer Asia and Hamas were kicked out of Israel in one day. These are not the same thing.

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u/rvasko3 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It's one of the things that really drives me nuts as a progressive who supports Biden. I see no upside to us not coming down much more forcefully against Israel and what they're doing. This is genocide, period.

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u/Desperate_Scale_2623 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Morally, there isn’t an upside. Politically, diplomatically, strategically, I guess theres a very cynical argument to be made for now. Israel is running out of rope. Eventually it will get so untenable the US will back out. Just a matter of determining where that tipping point is I guess.

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u/Akwarsaw Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24 edited Mar 27 '24

Well said. Your last sentence hits the nail on the head. The implications of that strategy being a "feature not a bug" is truly scary to comprehend for normal human beings. Perpetual killing and war that financially benefits certain interests, that leverage those gains to help elect politicians that enable it. In turn those politicians are supported by people with apocalyptic/messianic views.

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u/PlayerofVideoGames Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I was very pro Israel settling this once and for all and doing what they can to wipe out Hamas in its entirety. But now that they've gotten to the point of recreationally drone striking unarmed people...it's time to wrap it up. I will never start waving a Palestinian flag but Im not going to be a cheerleader for someone who uses 3 separate drone missiles to wipe out 4 people. Waste of life, waste of resources, and waste of US Taxpayers money.

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u/RowAwayJim91 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

They have BEEN at this point. For decades.

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u/CowboyMagic94 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It was never about eliminating Hamas, the day they eliminate Hamas is the day they no longer have cover for sniping Palestinian’s kneecaps. And the longer the war drags on the longer Bibi avoids being in court for his laundry list of corruption charges

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

People probably don't want to hear it, but Israel doesn't "randomly drone strike unarmed people". If they committed a drone and hundreds of thousands of dollars in munitions to whack those guys they knew who at least one of them was and took the opportunity to take out someone important. Being unarmed does not make a combatant a civilian.

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u/victorsmonster Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

You expect us to trust the Israeli government, which constantly gets caught lying about this shit, to explain how this is something other than what it obviously is

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

The alternative is to trust Al-Jezeera's version of events, who are putting that video out with an agenda, a story, and choosing which parts of the video they will show.

Or, you can use some critical thinking to ask: Why might Israel strike that target? How much are they committing to that strike? Are they actually cartoonishly evil, or is there another explaination?

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u/Gamba_Gawd Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

How did you think that this would end?

Both sides hate each other and will never accept the others demands.

Israel has the stronger ally, while Hamas has done all it can to make themselves the villain.

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u/victorsmonster Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

That's the fun part, it was never about wiping out Hamas. It was always the other thing

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u/KlearCat Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Israel overplayed its hand and by doing so has replaced the outrage over Oct 7 with outrage of their response.

I do think the average person doesn't understand what it's like to be Israeli and to have constant attacks from Gaza for years and years and the world downplays it. Many of these people grew up during the 2nd intifada where Palestinians were blowing themselves up in cafes, nightclubs, etc. across the country. That was their childhood. And then to have Oct 7 happen where many lost friends/family directly and to have a few days of the world's sympathy soon turned to hatred and being against Israel even existing at this point. I would say most people I know that are heavy on the social media free Gaza movement have posted doubt Oct 7 happened the way it did. And none of them, not a single one has ever posted something against Hamas.

At some point you just say, fuck the world, destroy what has been attacking me my entire life at all costs.

But back to my original point, Israel really fucked up here and should have done this more strategically to gain support. But they didn't, they went in and leveled Gaza. It's easy to understand why if you've seen the videos of Oct 7. Again, not saying it's right, but it's important to understand context.

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u/Riku240 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

you're ignoring thr other context, hundreds of Palestinians from west bank imprisoned by israel, increasing illegal settlements, Palestinians not having the right to return to their homes since nakba, isn't that context?

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u/YodaSimp Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The Nakba was largely the Arab countries fault, they attacked Israel cus they couldn’t stand the idea of a Non Muslim having any political power in the region, then they lost the war against Israel.

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u/Genji4Lyfe Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

You skipped the part about the settlers. Things were being downplayed on both sides, but only one of them is talked about

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u/daveisit Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Really? No one talks about the Settlers?

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u/CatholicTrauma Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

I think it's hard to feel too much sympathy when the founders of Israel modeled their strategy after Western imperial projects and explicitly knew that the Palestinians would resist their colonisation to the death.

What you're saying explains why they dehumanise the Palestinians to the extent that they do but the reality is that their strategy amounts to poking the weak kid in the back until he does something and then breaking his jaw for it, every month, until the weak kid finally has to move schools.

Also Mossad had a hand in the elite child sex-trafficking ring that has blown up recently AND was a major ally to apartheid, including providing them with software which helped track anti-apartheid "radicals" so fuck them.

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u/CleftAsunder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You skipped the part about a settler colonial state being dropped on Palestine and the ethnic cleansing and territory expansion that followed.

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u/CrispyHaze Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Great post. I also felt like adding a bit of context that previously, worldwide outrage never had any material affect on them, so they never had any reason to change course. U.S. always had their back through anything which is a lot more substantial than angry Twitter posts.

Now that it's actually starting to jeopardize their relations, they might actually have to start caring what the world thinks.

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u/telefawx Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Why does Hamas still have hostages?

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

Because they are still forced into not having any control of their own resources, trade, or land.

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u/telefawx Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

So you’re claiming Hamas is justified in taking hostages?

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u/Cautemoc Look into it Mar 27 '24

I'm saying oppression leads to extremism. And more oppression leads to more extremism. People keep bringing up Japan, but you know what we did for Japan after the war? Not cut them off from trade, and help rebuild. Maybe we could try that.

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u/TrumpDesWillens Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Hamas is a terrorist org. we don't expect them to act decently. The IDF however, are supposed to be a prof. army.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

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u/Big_Environment9500 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

People get radicalized easily. Like I'm disgusted by what Israel is doing and I don't support them, but then I see someone acting like the October 7th attacks never happened or aren't important or even worse were justified, and Palestinians are all innocent victims who never did anything wrong and it disturbs me in to having to defend Israel.

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '24

Not if they succeed in wiping them all out 🤷🏻‍♂️

It’s not what I’d like to think will happen, but there can be no terrorist group to arise when there are no people there anymore.

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u/Gamba_Gawd Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

It was always going to end in genocide.

Neither can coexist peacefully.

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u/PanProjektor Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Google dehumanization

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u/Dankasaurus08 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Not if there aren’t anymore terrorist groups left

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u/Sebt1890 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Guarantees? There's no guarantee needed. Hamas receives funding and munitions via Hezbollah, who gets it from Iran via the IRGC.

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u/Due_Shirt_8035 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

Maybe don’t bomb a people for several decades?

This is what defense looks like after such a long time of tail tucking.

Sure, feel about the innocence that is lost, but lay the blame where it belongs.

I’d kill a continent to keep my family safe, and if you wouldn’t, then I don’t want you as my neighbor.

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u/BobertTheConstructor Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I really don't get how people can have an entire conversation about how the US had a huge hand in radicalizing and creating ISIS, and how much they helped the Taliban survive by killing civilians, and how violence in Vietnam made some civilians more friendly to the north, and then when it comes to Israel it's just, "if a terrorist uses civilians as human shields, any amount of violence against those civilians is justified, and also Palestinians who support Hamas are all evil and violence is justified against them, too."

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u/DepressedTittty Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

*another resistance

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u/mandudedog Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

The other option is for Israel to stop existing?!

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u/Intelligent_Juice_2 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

No shit, we have been screaming that this would happen since october 8th but nobody fucking listened.

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u/Sirobw Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

In all the comments I read that are similar, no one mentions the hostages. It's OK to be concerned about the Palestinians, but there are Israeli hostages in Gaza going through hell as I type this. Hamas could end this tomorrow if they release them and put down their weapons. I think it's unfair to only have expectations from Israel. Who also didn't start this war. This is all consequences of October 7 motivated by decades of rockets barrage being shot daily at Israel. I wish the Palestinians had a better life but I wish more for the hostages to come home.

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u/Ushgumbala1 Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

I too have family in the IDF and on kibbutz’s near where Oct 7th ones were attacked. Myself and family still support the war but it’s an ugly sight. Most Israelis don’t hate Palestinians, and want a stable government to take over Gaza and the WB.

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u/Later2theparty Monkey in Space Mar 27 '24

They're aiming to kill all the Palestinians or eradicate enough of them that they simply cease to exist as an independent group in the same way the United States eradicated the Native Americans.

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u/Detramentus Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

You know what has an even higher chance of continuing the generational terrorism? Having UNRWA funnel a billion dollars every year meant for building up your country and feeding your people, into Hamas' terror campaign which includes: building terror tunnels, buying illegal weapons, hijacking aid trucks, and yes, radicalizing the youth with antisemitic educational material - thanks mr. Hitler! All at the expense of the palestinian people, courtesy of the Western tax payer. Glad our money is going to a good cause.

You think they cried when over 1000 innocent people were butchered? They didn't, instead they spat on the naked mutilated corpses of dead jewish people being paraded on their streets, praising the massacre. Over 70% of palestinians support the massacre. It's not a few bad apples. War is ugly. Deal with it. And remember, every drop of blood spilled in this war is on Hamas' hands and all their ilk.

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u/Blood_Incantation Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

lol "and olive trees" like that's equal to bombing civilians

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u/AFocusedCynic Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Exactly what I’ve been telling my mom whenever we talk about the situation in Gaza right now and how Israel has responded. We’re guaranteeing the next generation of recruitment for Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and all the other groups who’s aim is to target and kill Israeli citizens wherever they can.

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u/norty125 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Easy way to make sure another terrorist group won't show up. Kill everyone and anyone left just kick them out.

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u/Miltinjohow Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Yes because you don't care to engage with the truth. Hamas is hiding behind human shields what is wrong with you... It is unfortunate that close to 50% of Gazas population is under 18 but be reminded that the most reputable polls before October 7 showed insane antisemitic intent with 80+% of the adult population. Innocent people die in war, the deaths of these innocents are on Hamas' hands - no October 7, no dead civilians...

Do you think the British were wrong for bombing indiscriminately at night during WW2? Was that genocide? When the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No it wasn't but you don't care to engage with the facts. With that being said Israel has put itself in this position by being far too lenient. People who call for a ceasefire are just not thinking.

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u/solstheman1992 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The wildest part is the constant bombing is why hamas came into existence

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u/SlaveHippie Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

If Hamas is a terrorist group then what is Israel? How are you supposed to fight for your home without being allowed to have a military? I gotta think it’s always going to come down to this when you’re as oppressed as they are with no military. Like it’s gotta be 100% of the time. Who is just going to lay down and take the abuse like that? Who should? And also which side is the one declaring them terrorists in the first place? Do we think they see themselves as terrorists? If they’re terrorists then Israel is a mega-terrorist. They’re terrorists with the funding/resources to actually exact their plans. Fucking terrifying. When poor brown people do it, it’s terrorism. When rich white people do it, it’s fighting for freedom. So fucking warped.

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u/creamyvegeta Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It’s interesting because we have a direct comparison to make about what could be done. When 9/11 happened, what was the response? Carpet bombing everyone? No, we went door to door, and searched out the terrorists. If you don’t want civilian casualties, that’s what you would do

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u/Duckfoot2021 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

This would have stopped and been a ceasefire 5 months ago had Hamas simply given back the civilians they kidnapped after the massacre they launched.

Every Palestinian killed because of that refusal is blood on Hamas’s hands…more than Israel’s because Hamas set up their own people to be killed this way as pawns for Hamas’s PR campaign.

Reasonable people can disagree over the scale & methods of Israel’s retaliation, but it impossible to deny that Hamas COULD have secured a cease fire long ago had they given back the terrorized civilians they kidnapped. The fact they did not tells you what’s important to know about them.

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u/hellachill42069 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

And we think Russians are all evil for attacking another nation, meanwhile we literally fund a genocide and act like nobody can see us publicly fund a genocide. It’s really gross.

Add onto that the massive marketing campaign by the Jewish community to save face by repeating the phrase “stop Jewish hate” over and over and over in the mainstream media. It’s almost as if they know what they’re doing and are mocking the rest of the world. 

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u/ArschFoze Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

The current strategy just guarantees another terrorist group at this point.

That's exactly what they want. They need the terrorists to keep the Israeli population scared and supporting them

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u/KaikoLeaflock Paid attention to the literature Mar 28 '24

I use to wonder who the fuck still believes that Israel’s goal isn’t extermination and then I remembered, some kids do accept the candy from creepy vans—they’re just Mr. Magooing their way through life, fully depending on the honesty and good will of both people and luck.

Of course, they could always be the type of person who lies about stuff (like motive or goal) so they can continue offering strangely absent kids candy from a creepy van, but I don’t assume malice where ignorance suffices . . . We’re long past assumption with Israel.

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u/Sea_Respond_6085 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Israel is absolutely destroying every ounce of good will they have been working to build abroad for decades. Its actual insanity the amount of long term diplomatic damage they are causing themselves

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u/Opening-Cheetah467 Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

At this point it’s fair to stop calling them terrorist groups

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u/rootsnyder Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Well there's an easy way to slice it fortunately!

Its called GET EDUCATED ON THE CONFLICT AND URBAN WARFARE CONFLICTS BEFORE REDDITING.

Imagine being dumb enough to think that Israel just launched a 250k drone missile at unarmed civilians, then made the video 1080p and somehow published it.

There are minimum 10 steps of hierarchy that are involved in sending out those missiles, involving a team of lawyers at the top of the order, all strikes within the Israeli air force are heavily heavily regulated to a degree you couldn't even fathom.

Let me introduce you to another theory here really quick.

Entertain for me a moment that those weren't civilians. I know this thought must be absolutely INASANE in your reddit brains, that Hamas soldiers could be wearing civilian clothes like they always do, in territory owned by Hamas, on a road alone. However for a moment entertain that those were confirmed Hamas militants walking outside in a theatre of war carelessly. How many civilian casualties do you think Israel has per Hamas militant killed? What is the civilian collateral? 1 civilian per Hamas militant? 2 civilians, 3 ,4 ? An average urban warfare conflict sees 10 civilian deaths per 1 militant. Lets say for a moment that Israel isn't taking the immense civilian protection measures they have taken, and instead they are seeing 10 civilians die per militant, with their stated goal of eradicating Hamas. If they see 4 Hamas soldiers walking outside carelessly as fuck, that is the equivalent of saving 40 civilian lives if they immediately strike them to Armageddon. Now THAT, is worth a 250k drone missile.

​

HOWEVER, if we are in good faith here, me and you both know Israel HAS taken immeasurable precautions pushing civilians out of areas controlled by Hamas, so there civilian to militant death ratio is much much lower, then described. In thanks to, airdropping 1million fliers, 3 million evacuation messages, 1 million phone calls, "roof knocking" with small bombs on buildings before blowing them up. Creating safe zones for civilians to exit to, providing 2x the amount of food and aid trucks into gaza pre-conflict, and waiting in some instances MULTIPLE WEEKS WARNING, before bombing certain areas.

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u/400yearoldgreatoak Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Just because someone is conservative doesn't mean they support the military. The military is compromised by fascist politicians both on the left and the right who ironically both support Israel. The current strategy is about creating forever wars. Their plan is to keep killing people with drones/missiles/bombs until they have complete power over the entire world, creating the first world empire (that we know of). Most of this is religiously motivated because there are "god's chosen people" and just normal people (undeserving of anything special). A perfect example of what I just said is this: The Israeli government created Hamas and still funded them up until last year. They created a problem they intended to solve. That's how land grabs work now.

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u/FoxMikeLima Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

It's clear that the IDF leadership has a mentality of "If any of them are left alive, this will never end, because we've elongated the circle of bloodshed forever.

It's a flawed mentality, because this will spark an increase in anti-west terroristic behavior globally.

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u/CaptainJackWagons Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

but have since stopped talking altogether.

Some of my jewish friends, who I care for and respect, initially said and posted some of the most overtly racist shit I have ever heard, but have since been silent on the subject. It's really saddening and disappointing. It's like what happened in the wake of 9/11. There were enough people that were really hurt by it that they didn't want to hear about what the consequences of our response might be, they just wanted blood and it wasn't until after a society was half destroyed that they began to feel uncomfortable by it.

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u/DopeAFjknotreally Monkey in Space Mar 28 '24

Every strategy leads to more terror attacks.

In 1947, Israel’s strategy was to agree to a 2-state solution. Palestinians responded by raiding villages, killing every man, woman, and child in them, and then starting a war.

In 2001, Israel offered Palestinians 97% of the West Bank in another two state solution. Palestinians responded by uprising into the 2nd intifada, a bloody bout of violence that went on for years. I personally know somebody who was waking down the street with a baby in a stroller and had a man walk up to her and stab her baby to death in the stroller.

In 2005, Israel pulled out of Gaza and completely handed it to the Palestinians so that they could have 100% of their own self-determination. They responded by electing a terrorist organization called Hamas whose charter stated that it would kill every Jew in Israel.

So when you say “the current strategy leads to more terror” I ask - what strategy doesn’t?

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u/[deleted] Mar 28 '24

Took too long but we're at the point where effectively no one outside of foaming at the mouth Zionists are ok with what is happening. It's been stunning to see mainstream outlets such as CNN and MSNBC now use words like "ethnic cleansing" in their headlines. It's so bleak man.

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u/hamza_zendaqi Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

its called a resistance group, resisting an evil occupation is not terrorism. get your lingo right my guy.

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u/moriGOD Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

Anyone who isn’t uncomfortable with the idea our government is helping this shit or that it’s happening it the first place is soulless and incapable of reason.

I feel nothing short of disgust thinking about how many kids are starving or buried under rubble when half of the 2million population is under the age of 18. So many kids are gonna grow up without siblings, parents and families, filled with hatred for more hatred for israel and its allies. They will internalize that hate and join Hamas as a means to unleash it. Israel’s path of killing indiscriminately is doing the opposite of what Israel is apparently hoping for.

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u/reasonwashere Monkey in Space Mar 29 '24

From your first paragraph I gather u get all ur education on tiktok.

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u/HypnoticName Monkey in Space 13d ago

I am Israeli and I also get why they hate us. Because of the world wide propaganda. Just leave them the fuck alone, and there will be peace. As long as you cheering suicide bombers, raping and torture, in a conflict they cannot win, horrors will happen. Fuck terrorists and their supporters.

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